In his pc, said he would be frustrated if he was a player too. By the playcalling not putting players in position to succeed. Then didn’t say no when asked about a coordinatior change.
should have never hired him. Garrett was known as a terrible coach. Dallas fans literally had parties when he was fired. And I think Garrett would be a better hc than oc.
Art Stapleton
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@art_stapleton
Gloves are off for Joe Judge, who point blank put his coaching staff on notice, and it’s not a stretch to believe Jason Garrett is in the crosshairs.
Whatever comes from that, we’ll see. Says NYG have to put players in better position to succeed, and tonight they did not.
Art Stapleton
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@art_stapleton
“You can write that tonight.”
Joe Judge saying this performance is on the coaches more than the players. He bit his tongue somewhat, but tone was different. Have to think changes are coming here. Boiling point for the head coach. #NYGiants
Tom Rock
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@TomRock_Newsday
Probably would have been better to make big changes with two weeks between games rather than 6 days, but Joe Judge sure makes it sound like there will be some staff shufflin’ going on.
should have never hired him. Garrett was known as a terrible coach. Dallas fans literally had parties when he was fired. And I think Garrett would be a better hc than oc.
Bingo. It was a terrible hire at the time and that was obvious to anyone except for John Mara.
Tom Rock
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@TomRock_Newsday
Probably would have been better to make big changes with two weeks between games rather than 6 days, but Joe Judge sure makes it sound like there will be some staff shufflin’ going on.
Agreed but I'm wondering if Mara's fondness of Garrett was playing into the patience with Garrett's performance.
om Rock
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@TomRock_Newsday
Judge said he told the players: “You just show up ready to go” on Wednesday. He says he’s be frustrated w the coaching if he was a player. “We have too many good players” to score just 10 pts he says. Says Golladay will get more targets.
What a disgrace. This was a train wreck everyone saw coming except for the giants. How they allowed Garrett’s offense to ruin the offense for 2 years is unfathomable. Glad they’re waking up but cmon
PG is just as bad if not worse than Garrett. He had nobody rushing up the middle and Brady just stepped up and could survey the field And just pick them apart
Going for it on 4th down was also just stupid. Kick the FG and make it 17-13
Judge should join him, all three are a joke. Judge said they collaborate on game planning. Not sure what they collaborate on considering it is the same shit every week. We need a another corner so we can play man. Get a corner in Jackson and play him in zone. Graham has found a way to unteach Bradberry from being a good Cb. Garret has found a way to make Golladay useless. Why is 83 and 15 in so many plays on offense. You have play makers in Ross Toney and golladay but let’s put these loser special teamers on the field. Ojulari has gotten worse each week like they are teaching the pass rush moves out of him. Jones has gotten worse each game with these guys. Who has shown improvement under this staff.
I'm in favor of firing everyone as many times as possible, but the O is going to suck no matter what
Shumer had less to work with and the offense looked better. Jones didn’t seem to stare down WRs his rookie year, this coaching staff has the whole team taking after them and they play scared.
as long as plays that are there for the taking are not going to be capitalized on but instead the second/third reads will be executed poorly. There were a lot of plays left on the field but the coaches weren't the ones with the ball in their hands. That said, there were a few stupid plays like the D Jones QB gut.
I'm in favor of firing everyone as many times as possible, but the O is going to suck no matter what
Shumer had less to work with and the offense looked better. Jones didn’t seem to stare down WRs his rookie year, this coaching staff has the whole team taking after them and they play scared.
On half the plays Garrett has 2 or 3 players in a cluster. Not sure if Jones just looks like he's making one read. The scheme is not making use of 60% of the field. There's open space with no one in the area. Judge better fire Garrett TONIGHT!!!!!
I'm in favor of firing everyone as many times as possible, but the O is going to suck no matter what
Shumer had less to work with and the offense looked better. Jones didn’t seem to stare down WRs his rookie year, this coaching staff has the whole team taking after them and they play scared.
On half the plays Garrett has 2 or 3 players in a cluster. Not sure if Jones just looks like he's making one read. The scheme is not making use of 60% of the field. There's open space with no one in the area. Judge better fire Garrett TONIGHT!!!!!
Kurt Warner brought that up after week 2 and Garrett is still running the same plays. Receivers should be finding open spots...our WRs are all on one side of the field
Yeah, sh!ty offensive game plan, but Garrett is the least of this offense's problems. An O line that can't couldn't stop Rooney Mara from getting into the backfield. A QB who's not quite sure which color jersey he should be throwing to, and doesn't see a wide open Golladay on a post with nothing but green between him and the end zone. A #2 pick who judging by the sum total of his contribution to winning games so far in his NFL career is a bust. I could go on.
Yeah, players could be better used. But if you add nothin' to nothin', you still get nothin'.
TC - there are strengths. Golladay is an outstanding downfield, jump ball type WR. He's proven that. Stafford would just toss it up to him downfield and he'd come down with it. You can manufacture shots like that. They haven't thrown him a go route all year. That is not a lie. Never a decent fade into the end zone. Nothing. For a team that struggles to score - a fade to Golladay in the red zone is a great option.
I'm sure KG and the complete lack of production he's getting from Barkley, Toney and Jones are the obvious things. An astronomical amount of resources have been spent on those 4 players and the return is unacceptable.
I think Joe Judge should fire himself as we. That SAID
It was disgusting, ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING watching Brady smoke a cigarette on every drop back. Sickening. And then to watch a literal FUCKING JAILBREAK every play when we were on offense. FUCKING SICKENING.
What a disgrace. This was a train wreck everyone saw coming except for the giants. How they allowed Garrett’s offense to ruin the offense for 2 years is unfathomable. Glad they’re waking up but cmon
I wouldn't say they've woken up just yet. Nothing may happen.
om Rock
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@TomRock_Newsday
Judge said he told the players: “You just show up ready to go” on Wednesday. He says he’s be frustrated w the coaching if he was a player. “We have too many good players” to score just 10 pts he says. Says Golladay will get more targets.
Doesn't Jones make the ultimate decision on who to throw to?
om Rock
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@TomRock_Newsday
Judge said he told the players: “You just show up ready to go” on Wednesday. He says he’s be frustrated w the coaching if he was a player. “We have too many good players” to score just 10 pts he says. Says Golladay will get more targets.
Doesn't Jones make the ultimate decision on who to throw to?
No. It depends on the play design and where his first and second reads are.
Firing JG isn’t going to solve anything. Did anyone see the 30 points scored tonight? What does that have to do with the OC?
Defense sucked, but it's all interconnected. When you only run 56 offensive plays (and some of that is on the defense too - not getting the ball back), you don't win many games.
For years, the magic number was 70. If you run 70 plays in a game, you are in pretty good shape unless you are turning the ball over.
We only ran 56 and we turned the ball over. Bad combination...virtually impossible to win.
Firing JG isn’t going to solve anything. Did anyone see the 30 points scored tonight? What does that have to do with the OC?
Defense sucked, but it's all interconnected. When you only run 56 offensive plays (and some of that is on the defense too - not getting the ball back), you don't win many games.
For years, the magic number was 70. If you run 70 plays in a game, you are in pretty good shape unless you are turning the ball over.
We only ran 56 and we turned the ball over. Bad combination...virtually impossible to win.
Yeah could tell the defense was gassed about 2 minutes into the 4th quarter!
are going to get all over for me about this, but here I go....
Giants weren't ready to play this game, but that happens a lot in the NFL after the bye week (Giants actually had this problem for years under multiple coaches).
On top of that, and just as importantly, we were playing a pissed off NFL Champion, Tom Brady-led team on Monday night football.
Any Giants fans will tell you that is a recipe for disaster.
Giants fans are really, really tired of losing, but this outcome is not all that surprising.
are going to get all over for me about this, but here I go....
Giants weren't ready to play this game, but that happens a lot in the NFL after the bye week (Giants actually had this problem for years under multiple coaches).
On top of that, and just as importantly, we were playing a pissed off NFL Champion, Tom Brady-led team on Monday night football.
Giants fans are really, really tired of losing, but this outcome is not all that surprising.
Eric don’t you think it’s odd the Giants haven’t posted Judge’s presser to their website yet? Every other week it’s been up by now. Daniel’s is. But it’s like they know he dropped a bomb and they’re deciding if they need to edit it before it’s officially posted on our site. I had to dig deep on YouTube to find it.
Keep those, just get rid of the coaches and players.
But seriously, maybe there is something about Judge's remark. Booker has looked pretty good on his touches, ditto Penny. Until and unless Saquon wants to do more with his, perhaps they should get most of them. If the OL can't pass block, maybe they should just try running it down the other team's throat until they loosen up. Couldn't look much worse than tonight.
and if he turns it around, I think you can look to this moment. I think in some ways he has been collaborative and passive. I think we see something different next week and it may start with firing or removing play calling from Garrett.
They faced a defense that got picked apart by Heinicke. They had their full compliment of weapons. (I don't even count Shepard anymore because he's only played about every other week the past 3 years)
They are bottom 3 in points since Garrett was hired. The play call is predictable and unimaginative. They have not scored 30 points as an offense in a game since Garrett arrived, which is unthinkable in todays NFL.
Don't talk to me about the Oline or injuries..every team deals with injuries. Severals teams have Olines just as bad as the Giants. And there is no shortage of explosive plays and points for those teams.
Garrett doesn't get a pass. Hope he is gone tomorrow. If he is not, I think we have to start questioning Judge- you'd have to be blind to continue to trot Garrett out there as OC after watching what his offense through 25 games.
After Garrett, we have to start talking about the guy who has been under center for the duration of the time...but I won't get into that in this particular thread...
glamour boys OBJ and Barkley. Get the linemen first, then get the skill players.
Offense would have been better with Booker tonight. In the last two games he averaged 4.5 yards per carry and a lot of it running right between the tackles on first down.
Big difference 2nd and 5, 2nd and 9. The pass rush tees off. Give the ball to Barkley up the middle on first down and he'll get two yards nine times, then break one for 25. That's not what Jones needs.
Kurt Warner brought that up after week 2 and Garrett is still running the same plays. Receivers should be finding open spots...our WRs are all on one side of the field
By bringing it up you mean he didn't like one of a half a dozen plays that Garret designed and the other 6 or 7 were "Jones didn't see the receiver here" or "Jnnes needs to lead the receiver there" This Jones love and garret hate is unreal. You guys are resorting to lying at this point to cover for jones.
That being said, Jones can have a terrible game and the playcalling can be abysmal as well, they aren’t mutually exclusive.
This was a really frustrating gameplan on both sides. All three coaches deserve the ripping they are getting-it’s as if Tampa didn’t have a million DBs injured and it’s as if we had every receiver still injured.
Too often this year we’ve played “we’re afraid to get beat!” Instead of “we’re going to beat YOU” and it’s on Judge. He has to recognize this and make changes.
we’re an 8th grade team going against varsity. The best players on Tampas defense are the line and linebackers and we fed the game right to them. It’s as if they didn’t have all those DBs injured. We didn’t even attempt to take advantage of that.
"I'm gonna fire Garrett because he's the sole reason we lost". Blah blah blah fuck you Judge. Yep, I would deflect blame too if I were you. You can't escape that shit show your team put on. Fuck him. So sick of his shit. "I gotta see the tape because I wear the headset over my eyes during the game. Sorry." Ok Joe. Jones is terrible. Enough fuckin said. Fuck off if you defend him. I loved him I truley did but this kid is NOT even a starter much less a franchise quarterback. Nope. He throws a ball to a RED JERSEY(not even anything resembling white of any kind)straight to him. That's just the start of his mistakes. The O-line sucks but you can't tell me there isn;t a qb out there that could gain yards last night with that line. Yes he gained some but when the kid see's white jerseys when he's looking at red jerseys, he's beyond confused.
I like Joe Judge as a person but his inability to manage the two co-ordinators is damning
All 3 have to go and Gettleman too
I have written for weeks how Grahams one note soft defense was driving me crazy and all year about how Garrett was sent here by Jerry Jones to destroy us
Just starting the Tiny Dancer at RB over Booker was outright criminal. It is magical that a 245 lb RB can hit with such little force BTW.
Also as Parcells said you have to throw the ball downfield to on occasion to keep the other team honest
If you are afraid of INTs the long ones are like punts, the short ones are game changing or often pick six
PG is just as bad if not worse than Garrett. He had nobody rushing up the middle and Brady just stepped up and could survey the field And just pick them apart
Going for it on 4th down was also just stupid. Kick the FG and make it 17-13
agreed
All the analysts said Tampa was very vulnerable to the pass
not so much the run
So we once again fail to attack their secondary and play short ball
Sorry guys. Just so fustrated that I don't know what to think of this team. I see very little hope in the near future. Maybe 4 years from now after gettlemans shit show starts to fade and John(the blind man)mara gets his hands off the team too
I like Joe Judge as a person but his inability to manage the two co-ordinators is damning
All 3 have to go and Gettleman too
I have written for weeks how Grahams one note soft defense was driving me crazy and all year about how Garrett was sent here by Jerry Jones to destroy us
Just starting the Tiny Dancer at RB over Booker was outright criminal. It is magical that a 245 lb RB can hit with such little force BTW.
Also as Parcells said you have to throw the ball downfield to on occasion to keep the other team honest
If you are afraid of INTs the long ones are like punts, the short ones are game changing or often pick six
Bro. "the timy dancer" lmfao you got me rolling hahahahaha. You know what? you might be onto something. Never thought that maybe Jones sent JG here to fuck us. Bet JG knows he's fucking us over and is still on Dallas payroll
Not sure why he waited until THIS season was completely lost...
om Rock
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@TomRock_Newsday
Judge said he told the players: “You just show up ready to go” on Wednesday. He says he’s be frustrated w the coaching if he was a player. “We have too many good players” to score just 10 pts he says. Says Golladay will get more targets.
Doesn't Jones make the ultimate decision on who to throw to?
No. It depends on the play design and where his first and second reads are.
are going to get all over for me about this, but here I go....
Giants weren't ready to play this game, but that happens a lot in the NFL after the bye week (Giants actually had this problem for years under multiple coaches).
On top of that, and just as importantly, we were playing a pissed off NFL Champion, Tom Brady-led team on Monday night football.
Any Giants fans will tell you that is a recipe for disaster.
Giants fans are really, really tired of losing, but this outcome is not all that surprising.
The loss was a given, the way they lost was not ok though. I turned the game off. It was that bad in q3.
Period. If he wants to be here next year, he needs to do whatever he can to make that happen. If they pull a goose egg down the stretch and it's another McAdoo like finish, I have a hard time seeing Judge back. He's not getting results.
does not know how to use his weapons. Team never got into a rhythm. It was like he was mesmerized by what he had. All the big players seemed to disappear. They would make a play, then poof, never heard from again.
I also thought Graham had a quite crappy day. God awful. 3rd and long - giving Brady 6-8 seconds with three man rush.
In fact, my impression was the coaching staff should be fired.
are going to get all over for me about this, but here I go....
Giants weren't ready to play this game, but that happens a lot in the NFL after the bye week (Giants actually had this problem for years under multiple coaches).
On top of that, and just as importantly, we were playing a pissed off NFL Champion, Tom Brady-led team on Monday night football.
Any Giants fans will tell you that is a recipe for disaster.
Giants fans are really, really tired of losing, but this outcome is not all that surprising.
it’s not surprising. Tough playing a pissed off team with 5x your take to on the road in prime time. Just frustrating.
Results are overstated, it is about improvement, clearly they are getting much better at stinking the joint out.
Running game...no Stopping the run......no
Passing game...no Stooping the pass....no
Pass rush...we have none...against us....jail break.
Coaching acumen....What am is missing?
RE: Not sure why he waited until THIS season was completely lost...
the Bucs are literally more talented than the Giants at every position. Go up and down the roster. And they have a far superior coaching staff.
Were Judge, Graham and Garrett really going to take a vastly inferior roster andbbeat Arians & Bowles? Fuck no. They got bent over a barrel like they usually do.
Yeah, sh!ty offensive game plan, but Garrett is the least of this offense's problems. An O line that can't couldn't stop Rooney Mara from getting into the backfield. A QB who's not quite sure which color jersey he should be throwing to, and doesn't see a wide open Golladay on a post with nothing but green between him and the end zone. A #2 pick who judging by the sum total of his contribution to winning games so far in his NFL career is a bust. I could go on.
Yeah, players could be better used. But if you add nothin' to nothin', you still get nothin'.
And his tough guy personality but drenched in a "it's never really my fault" aura".
Yes JG has to go. Watching (on multiple occasions) Jones move players from right to left, call motion late in play clock to then call a handoff into the line is comical. Both Riddick and Griese said that's it? All that movement and changing positions to just do that!! Think about what that does to an online, to the TE's on the line as the clock is ticking - you are taking their "drive", their "power" away by the long delay before the snap, putting them in a prime position to false start, to try too hard to get to s spot etc. All for a play that has zero chance of producing more than 4 yards and way more likely to produce 0 or negative yards. Plays like this are beyond overly complicated.
3rd and 4th downs with less than 5 yards we call rollouts to the short side of the field with multiple targets all to the most congested area of the field. Horrible calls, horrible plays and just pathetic overall.
That said Jones was pathetic last night. He was so awful I can't even begin to defend him. Watching Brady go to the guy getting open and then watching Jones look to a covered Toney even as your high priced WR KG cross in front of him OPEN was just bad football. We have now reached the point of no return. The embarrassing int to the BUCS DLmen was just fodder for the Giants are a joke people. It was truly awful.
Garrett has to go but Jones needs to go after the season as well. It is over..
One last thing- higher a new GM, if he wants a new coach that is fine with me and use our soon to be 2 top 5 picks to fix this team.
And his tough guy personality but drenched in a "it's never really my fault" aura".
Yes JG has to go. Watching (on multiple occasions) Jones move players from right to left, call motion late in play clock to then call a handoff into the line is comical. Both Riddick and Griese said that's it? All that movement and changing positions to just do that!! Think about what that does to an online, to the TE's on the line as the clock is ticking - you are taking their "drive", their "power" away by the long delay before the snap, putting them in a prime position to false start, to try too hard to get to s spot etc. All for a play that has zero chance of producing more than 4 yards and way more likely to produce 0 or negative yards. Plays like this are beyond overly complicated.
3rd and 4th downs with less than 5 yards we call rollouts to the short side of the field with multiple targets all to the most congested area of the field. Horrible calls, horrible plays and just pathetic overall.
That said Jones was pathetic last night. He was so awful I can't even begin to defend him. Watching Brady go to the guy getting open and then watching Jones look to a covered Toney even as your high priced WR KG cross in front of him OPEN was just bad football. We have now reached the point of no return. The embarrassing int to the BUCS DLmen was just fodder for the Giants are a joke people. It was truly awful.
Garrett has to go but Jones needs to go after the season as well. It is over..
One last thing- higher a new GM, if he wants a new coach that is fine with me and use our soon to be 2 top 5 picks to fix this team.
Joe Judge has zero feel for the game, and you need no further proof than watching the Giants offense with 55 seconds left in the first half. That wasn't just stupid... that was scary stupid. And Joe Judge needs to go.
And it is obvious Garrett is gone. But does that matter. Shouldn't this "put players in a position to succeed" also apply to Graham? The Giants play stupid offense and passive defense, we have send Peanut out on offense and Kenny (gets killed every week) on defense. We couldn't possibly be a worse collection of pathetic, stupid, and just accepting (accepting of poor play, poor result and poor finishes)...
Sucks. I have said it from the get go, the only thing that needs to be done is to clean house and hire an outside GM, let him hire his own coach, and get Jones out of this building, he sucks.
JG may not be everything that’s wrong with this team but he is a big part of it… And it shouldn’t stop other changes from being made in the off-season but at least it will be something interesting to pay attention to this season to see if a different OC can generate different results.
We are really bad.
And like many others here I have started to get bored by this team which is even worse than being frustrated. I find myself half paying attention to a lot of these games and like last night, simply turning it off in the third quarter.
Judge has been saying they need to coach better since the first loss they had under him. And he could just as well have been talking about Graham as Garrett. Why were our CBs playing 15 yards off the LOS? How could we NOT get a hit on Brady in the 1st half when everyone knows thats the only way to beat him? How is Shelton on the field?! Don't get me wrong, Garretts atrocious but as Judge said the fish stinks from the head down. Personnel decisions are mind boggling; No Golladay on the 4th down play, Reggie Ragland still starting Solder and not Peart, how is Hernandez still starting, again shelton. What happened just before halftime is another example of Judge not quite being ready for the NFL. He needs sometime in college to iron those kinks out. Scary thing is, I don't have any confidence that the next GM, HC, OC, DC or any player will be good. As a recently deleted thread stated, I'm a diehard fan being turned into a casual fan because of the teams utter ineptitude. When you enjoy listening to Kevin Hart more than watching the game you know your team sucks. Hes a fing eagles fan for gsake!
This team stinks. I am sick and tired of hearing about competitive games. We have gotten blown out of the building by any team that had it together on offense. Cowboys, RAMS, Bucs. Only reason why Chiefs didn’t was Mahommes is in a funk. We have played wretched football all year, no growth nothing. You want to fire Garrett, go for it. He isn’t the main problem. It’s Joe Judge. What a blowhard
After that performance, fire them all. Last one in the room
In 24 games over 2 seasons,he has 20.Toney had the longest throw last night. Garrett never lets Jones go long.Garrett was Mara's choice,not Judge's. And the reality is,for the Giants to be good again,Mara needs to step back & have no input on the moves made. There's no Rozelle stepping in with George Young this time! And,when DG goes,it doesn't remedy the situation,as Mara's son has as much say in who they draft.The Maras have to be like Tisch & be a silent owner!
Judge has been saying they need to coach better since the first loss they had under him. And he could just as well have been talking about Graham as Garrett. Why were our CBs playing 15 yards off the LOS? How could we NOT get a hit on Brady in the 1st half when everyone knows thats the only way to beat him? How is Shelton on the field?! Don't get me wrong, Garretts atrocious but as Judge said the fish stinks from the head down. Personnel decisions are mind boggling; No Golladay on the 4th down play, Reggie Ragland still starting Solder and not Peart, how is Hernandez still starting, again shelton. What happened just before halftime is another example of Judge not quite being ready for the NFL. He needs sometime in college to iron those kinks out. Scary thing is, I don't have any confidence that the next GM, HC, OC, DC or any player will be good. As a recently deleted thread stated, I'm a diehard fan being turned into a casual fan because of the teams utter ineptitude. When you enjoy listening to Kevin Hart more than watching the game you know your team sucks. Hes a fing eagles fan for gsake!
We both feel the same about this.
But if you think about it there are no strong personalities in this group from Mara to Gettleman to Judge to his Coordinators they are all wishy washy wet noodles.
If Judge wants to save his ass he needs to fire both these coordinators right now. Neither one has half a set of Cajonnes on them. They play everything safe. No aggression
Both need testosterone tests
I'm convinced its not the players its the coaches
if you were an offensive lineman, how hard would you try for a dump off pass or a rum by Barkley
These guys were trying hard for Booker.....no Booker....no effort
Judge has a good temperment for the job but precious little background or experience to be an NFL HC
Mara has to fly down to Alabama and at least take some advice from Saban over a nice dinner, if not offer him the moon to take over the team
In 24 games over 2 seasons,he has 20.Toney had the longest throw last night. Garrett never lets Jones go long.Garrett was Mara's choice,not Judge's. And the reality is,for the Giants to be good again,Mara needs to step back & have no input on the moves made. There's no Rozelle stepping in with George Young this time! And,when DG goes,it doesn't remedy the situation,as Mara's son has as much say in who they draft.The Maras have to be like Tisch & be a silent owner!
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
i was so focused on how bad WH was on that play but look at the cluster fuck in the middle of the field. This is something I have complained a lot about in terms of play selection, play design, as we actually make it easier to defend us by bringing both our guys and the defenders to the main point/main target area of the play. We run so many plays where we have 3-4 targets all roughly the same distance and on the same plane (could be a 5 yard distance and then basically all the same across the field) or we cluster players to the same general area- and we usually run a rollout in that same direction, thus congesting the field and limiting our options do to shrinking the available field space by 2/3's.
I hate this offense and what is designed to do.
BUT, I have lost faith in Jones too though. All issues aside he missed Golladay wide open across the middle deep in TB territory (those plays are the difference between so so guys and winners), he threw a HORRIBLE int and the other INT wasn't any better just easier to not look as tragic.
Watching Garrett and Jones sitting next to each other on the sideline last night.... I never want to see that degree of defeat in my coordinator's and QB's face like that ever again. I don't care how much we suck.
Hernandez may still have some lingering COVID issues, IDK, but he just looks weak. Someone take away his roller skates.
Booker is the best running back on the team right now.
What ever happened to he idea that offense is a progression? I see no development anywhere in the skills of any of these players, nor do I see any development in the play calling. Our coaches cannot teach.
Doesn't Jones make the ultimate decision on who to throw to?
No. It depends on the play design and where his first and second reads are.
What?
That's the BS answer people like to give to absolve Jones of blame. It also relies on the ridiculous belief that the game is played on paper and that the "reads" are set in stone in the film room.
In reality, it's Daniel Jones's JOB to read the defense at the line of scrimmage, and determine:
a) If the play called in the huddle needs to be adjusted
b) Which receiver is likely to be open
For instance, when you have Kadarius Toney in the slot being covered by a safety with nobody over the top, maybe you should make THAT your primary target and throw the goddamn ball to the pylon and let him go catch it.
Or, when you have Kenny Golladay wide the hell open for a TD in the middle of the field, don't get stuck on your "first read" on the sideline who isn't (and won't be) open then chuck the ball into the 3rd row.
It's not paint-by-numbers, the position requires instincts and decisiveness and Jones has neither of those things. I'm sure in the classroom he's a great QB, but that doesn't matter on the field.
So to answer the original question, Daniel Jones absolutely decides where to throw the ball, and he's not good at it unless his "on paper" first read happens to be open.
You can bring in the greatest offensive and defensive coordinators in history and it would not make a shred of difference. The OL basically sucks. Hernandez is a joke and should never been on this roster. His play has gone down hill since Year 1. Only thing he is good at is getting penalties and getting into scrums. The defense is bad. Not sure what you would expect someone to do with basically one talented lineman and no credible players to play LB. If they do not get a legit LB for next year they all should be fired.
You can bring in the greatest offensive and defensive coordinators in history and it would not make a shred of difference. The OL basically sucks. Hernandez is a joke and should never been on this roster. His play has gone down hill since Year 1. Only thing he is good at is getting penalties and getting into scrums. The defense is bad. Not sure what you would expect someone to do with basically one talented lineman and no credible players to play LB. If they do not get a legit LB for next year they all should be fired.
I recall reading some on here last week saying Hernandez was playing the best of the whole OL this year.
Period. If he wants to be here next year, he needs to do whatever he can to make that happen. If they pull a goose egg down the stretch and it's another McAdoo like finish, I have a hard time seeing Judge back. He's not getting results.
Judge is a BS artist. This team is not what he said it would be. Blue Collar punch you in the nose fight for 60 minutes. Sure ok. Talk is cheap. If this is the process then the process sucks. You don't build a winning team by losing. Is the Mississippi job available?
Yep and they are. Stupid mistakes on coaching. That 4th an 1 rush the play for an incompletion total out of sync sealed it for me. Probably the most important play of the game and they were clueless. Call a timeout ( I know they waste to many of those) but that play was important and they paniced.
RE: RE: Guys, Jones and Garrett can both be terrible.
Yep and they are. Stupid mistakes on coaching. That 4th an 1 rush the play for an incompletion total out of sync sealed it for me. Probably the most important play of the game and they were clueless. Call a timeout ( I know they waste to many of those) but that play was important and they paniced.
Yea except Garret has a decade track record of success. Jones has 3 good games from 3 years ago against the worst teams in the league.
In 24 games over 2 seasons,he has 20.Toney had the longest throw last night. Garrett never lets Jones go long.Garrett was Mara's choice,not Judge's. And the reality is,for the Giants to be good again,Mara needs to step back & have no input on the moves made. There's no Rozelle stepping in with George Young this time! And,when DG goes,it doesn't remedy the situation,as Mara's son has as much say in who they draft.The Maras have to be like Tisch & be a silent owner!
Hard to believe that DJ’s lack of productivity falls on coaching. If you watched last nights game DJ was light a deer in headlights all night long. Still looking down a single receiver and I still say he seldom makes adjustments at the line of scrimmage. Blame who you want but DJ is not the answer
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
of the no-effort, non-blocks from Golladay on the screen and multiple Hernandez, Barkley whiffs, it seems clear that despite a general lack of talent, there is no accountability on poor performances coming from the coaching staff.
I don't get the reluctance to sit a player for a series to make a point. There is (almost) no one on this team who is above that.
That's my biggest issue, with clock management and conservative game plans on both sides of the ball a close second and third.
then Gettleman at the end of season. Bring in a new head of football operations from a winning organization, let him hire a new GM, and together they pick a new coach. Draft a QB with one pick and do multiple trade downs with the other to accumulate 3 players or so. If we start over, we will have another 3-5 year rebuild but hopefully we see improvement year to year. Doing the same thing over and over, and getting the same results, is the definition of insanity. I have been a Giants fan all my life - but I am slowly losing interest in this team. Thank God for UGA football or I'd have nothing but misery this year.
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Do Not Include Colombo in any discussion on the Giants line. He sucked.
and fire both coordinators. Here is a trivia question, when Coughlin was hired, who were his coordinators, both OC and DC?
Here's a trivia question. When Coughlin was hired, how many times had he already been to the conference championship game as an NFL HC? Would any of his assistants felt free to go on a snipe hunt the night before a game?
We hired the guy who made the morning Dunkin' Donuts run for Little Bill as HC because, once again, the owners sold themselves on a one-line narrative and are now shocked by the results. So now fire Garrett, and I could care less, so His Majesty, in his unfailing judgment, can install one of his asshole MSU buddies in as OC and that will fix everything.
and i can't say i blame them. i don't think firing garrett at this late stage, in a lost season, is going to make a bit of difference. you still have a coach who doesn't understand how to use time-outs and a quarterback who can't read the field.
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Do Not Include Colombo in any discussion on the Giants line. He sucked.
You miss the point. Judge's divine intervention and installation of one of his asshole buddies hasn't helped. It may actually be worse. Oh and for the Kitchen Klatch, Freddie is supposed to be the "Senior Offensive Assistant". What is his responsibility for the fire in the dumpster?
wow and it also shows Tampa getting immediate pressure on a 3-man rush because Will Hernandez and Billy Price f*cking up an easy double team block to get pressure right up the middle on Daniel Jones.
but he is in no way part of the solution. He is getting fired, either because they all get fired at the end of the year or now. There is no reason to wait.
Maybe its not the best designed play and surely executed poorly. But it would help if Hernandez and Price didn't get blown up by 1 guy.
He also had Golladay open on the outside at the bottom of the screen.
But Orlovsky and others trying to deflect all blame from Jones is absurd. He consistently misses reads and throws NFL QBs should make with ease. And he turns the ball over more than he scores touchdowns. He's not any good.
Garrett played for Dallas in the 1990’s when they had a great OL and run game. As HC he built the Cowboys great OL which is still flourishing. He inherits Giant’s offense with a poor OL and you expect him to be successful. This hire shows the stupidity of the owner. Finally, Garrett admits that the OL is holding back his offensive game plan. This is just one instance of why John Mara needs to turn the keys to the office over to the professionals.
It's long overdue for Garrett to have play calling duties taken
I don't know who's to blame (JG, DJ or both), but how is it the WR we paid a crapload of money to be our #1, hardly ever gets thrown to? He should have 8-10 targets a game. It seems like he's gotten 8-10 for the season.
I don't agree that Graham should also get canned, at least not yet. The D is on the field way too much due to the O's futility.
Maybe its not the best designed play and surely executed poorly. But it would help if Hernandez and Price didn't get blown up by 1 guy.
He also had Golladay open on the outside at the bottom of the screen.
But Orlovsky and others trying to deflect all blame from Jones is absurd. He consistently misses reads and throws NFL QBs should make with ease. And he turns the ball over more than he scores touchdowns. He's not any good.
Yeah, I've got to think somebody (at least one) ran the wrong route. I think JG is awful, but even he wouldn't be stupid enough to draw up a play like that.
Unless he's still on Jerry Jones's payroll...
I don't think Jones is seeing the field once the play is in motion
Won't matter who the OC is. Several cases where he had people open with nothing between him and the open player, but didn't appear to see them. The two interceptions were both just horrid. Not sure what he was seeing there, but it wasn't a Giants player.
Pretty consistent over the past 20 years. Seldom, very seldom do they ever win when they pass the ball more than they run it. Back in Eli's day, I remember Mr. Reid saying that all the Eagles had to do was stop the run and make Eli try to win the game. Granted, there's not much choice now with this O line, but man... at least try maybe? Almost 3:1 pass to run ratio again and another loss.
RE: I don't think Jones is seeing the field once the play is in motion
Won't matter who the OC is. Several cases where he had people open with nothing between him and the open player, but didn't appear to see them. The two interceptions were both just horrid. Not sure what he was seeing there, but it wasn't a Giants player.
Several cases he had people open? Got any videos or links? The only time I seen him absolutely miss a big play was when he threw early to Joka and should have waited for Golladay over the middle.
watching the same cast of BBI characters showcase their personal agendas, whether it be the GM, coach or the QB.
here is a fact - they are all underperforming (from the top down to practically every player on the team). Trying to suggest that one change is going to "fix" everything is just stupid and removes any credibility you may otherwise have.
Did anyone read Garrett's Q&A on here week or 2 ago?
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Oh, stop. That was an unsubstantiated rumor from a troll that BBI mods should have already gotten rid of.
You're not going to beat the better teams with that OL.
Thomas coming off an injury - have been looking for replacements for Hernandez and Solder for 2 years. and other two are patches on a flat tire.
OL and LB will be big needs in draft
ER is a huge need. Whichever poster said Brady on a smoke break on his passes was right. I did love the sequence where the ER on the Giants tried to beat the OT and fell down twice in the same way both times in two straight plays.
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Columbo was well on his way to making Andrew Thomas a bust. Getting rid of the Columbo was by far the best thing Judge has done.
Giants were out classed off and on the field. I hope Mara sees this. A complete teardown and rebuild has to happen. After we draft our next QB and coach that will fail, we will to ready to draft Arch Manning and a better coach. <<--Yes i am saying that after judge is fired and Judge replacement is fired..then that nexT coach and GM will draft Arch Manning and this team will turn around..it will take 6-7 more years of this crap we are going thru.
Love it when coordinators are sacrificed so that the head coach can keep his job. Be assured that Jason Garrett is not picking the roster, and is not making up gameplans without buy-in from the coach. Everyone needs to go and for those who say stop the turnover every couple of years, the answer is that it should not stop until they get it right. Hiring unproven assistants without head coaching experience has not worked. Hiring former head coaches who failed has not worked. Maybe the Cowboys and WFT got it right--hire former head coaches who were proven winners. Working for those teams and for the Chiefs.
I gotta believe Garrett and Judge hear the constant
Agreed
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@art_stapleton
Gloves are off for Joe Judge, who point blank put his coaching staff on notice, and it’s not a stretch to believe Jason Garrett is in the crosshairs.
Whatever comes from that, we’ll see. Says NYG have to put players in better position to succeed, and tonight they did not.
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@art_stapleton
“You can write that tonight.”
Joe Judge saying this performance is on the coaches more than the players. He bit his tongue somewhat, but tone was different. Have to think changes are coming here. Boiling point for the head coach. #NYGiants
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@TomRock_Newsday
Probably would have been better to make big changes with two weeks between games rather than 6 days, but Joe Judge sure makes it sound like there will be some staff shufflin’ going on.
Bingo. It was a terrible hire at the time and that was obvious to anyone except for John Mara.
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@TomRock_Newsday
Probably would have been better to make big changes with two weeks between games rather than 6 days, but Joe Judge sure makes it sound like there will be some staff shufflin’ going on.
Agreed but I'm wondering if Mara's fondness of Garrett was playing into the patience with Garrett's performance.
Everything was to the side lines for players who need the open field.
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@TomRock_Newsday
Judge said he told the players: “You just show up ready to go” on Wednesday. He says he’s be frustrated w the coaching if he was a player. “We have too many good players” to score just 10 pts he says. Says Golladay will get more targets.
Going for it on 4th down was also just stupid. Kick the FG and make it 17-13
What
Garrett is a schmuck and Judge is a chicken.
I'm in favor of firing everyone as many times as possible, but the O is going to suck no matter what
Garrett is a dipshit, but he’s not the root cause.
I'm in favor of firing everyone as many times as possible, but the O is going to suck no matter what
Shumer had less to work with and the offense looked better. Jones didn’t seem to stare down WRs his rookie year, this coaching staff has the whole team taking after them and they play scared.
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The question then becomes Judge. An ugly loss to Philly next week and this shit is going to get very bad.
Garrett is a dipshit, but he’s not the root cause.
Someone has to take responsibility. So either Judge and Gettleman quit...or Garrett has to go
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the offense is going to suck.
I'm in favor of firing everyone as many times as possible, but the O is going to suck no matter what
Shumer had less to work with and the offense looked better. Jones didn’t seem to stare down WRs his rookie year, this coaching staff has the whole team taking after them and they play scared.
On half the plays Garrett has 2 or 3 players in a cluster. Not sure if Jones just looks like he's making one read. The scheme is not making use of 60% of the field. There's open space with no one in the area. Judge better fire Garrett TONIGHT!!!!!
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In comment 15463147 Jerry in_DC said:
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the offense is going to suck.
I'm in favor of firing everyone as many times as possible, but the O is going to suck no matter what
Shumer had less to work with and the offense looked better. Jones didn’t seem to stare down WRs his rookie year, this coaching staff has the whole team taking after them and they play scared.
On half the plays Garrett has 2 or 3 players in a cluster. Not sure if Jones just looks like he's making one read. The scheme is not making use of 60% of the field. There's open space with no one in the area. Judge better fire Garrett TONIGHT!!!!!
Kurt Warner brought that up after week 2 and Garrett is still running the same plays. Receivers should be finding open spots...our WRs are all on one side of the field
Only about 1/2 sarcastic. :-/
Yeah, sh!ty offensive game plan, but Garrett is the least of this offense's problems. An O line that can't couldn't stop Rooney Mara from getting into the backfield. A QB who's not quite sure which color jersey he should be throwing to, and doesn't see a wide open Golladay on a post with nothing but green between him and the end zone. A #2 pick who judging by the sum total of his contribution to winning games so far in his NFL career is a bust. I could go on.
Yeah, players could be better used. But if you add nothin' to nothin', you still get nothin'.
I'm sure KG and the complete lack of production he's getting from Barkley, Toney and Jones are the obvious things. An astronomical amount of resources have been spent on those 4 players and the return is unacceptable.
I wouldn't say they've woken up just yet. Nothing may happen.
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@TomRock_Newsday
Judge said he told the players: “You just show up ready to go” on Wednesday. He says he’s be frustrated w the coaching if he was a player. “We have too many good players” to score just 10 pts he says. Says Golladay will get more targets.
Doesn't Jones make the ultimate decision on who to throw to?
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@TomRock_Newsday
Judge said he told the players: “You just show up ready to go” on Wednesday. He says he’s be frustrated w the coaching if he was a player. “We have too many good players” to score just 10 pts he says. Says Golladay will get more targets.
Doesn't Jones make the ultimate decision on who to throw to?
No. It depends on the play design and where his first and second reads are.
Defense sucked, but it's all interconnected. When you only run 56 offensive plays (and some of that is on the defense too - not getting the ball back), you don't win many games.
For years, the magic number was 70. If you run 70 plays in a game, you are in pretty good shape unless you are turning the ball over.
We only ran 56 and we turned the ball over. Bad combination...virtually impossible to win.
I assume his headset is working (now at least). Was there something stopping him from telling Garrett he didn't like the plays he was calling?
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Firing JG isn’t going to solve anything. Did anyone see the 30 points scored tonight? What does that have to do with the OC?
Defense sucked, but it's all interconnected. When you only run 56 offensive plays (and some of that is on the defense too - not getting the ball back), you don't win many games.
For years, the magic number was 70. If you run 70 plays in a game, you are in pretty good shape unless you are turning the ball over.
We only ran 56 and we turned the ball over. Bad combination...virtually impossible to win.
Yeah could tell the defense was gassed about 2 minutes into the 4th quarter!
But let's not also forget that the Bucs got the ball to start the game, marched right down the field and scored in 4 minutes.
After the Giants turned the ball over on downs to start the 3rd quarter, the Bucs went right down the field and scored to go up by 14.
No excuses for either.
Giants weren't ready to play this game, but that happens a lot in the NFL after the bye week (Giants actually had this problem for years under multiple coaches).
On top of that, and just as importantly, we were playing a pissed off NFL Champion, Tom Brady-led team on Monday night football.
Any Giants fans will tell you that is a recipe for disaster.
Giants fans are really, really tired of losing, but this outcome is not all that surprising.
Giants weren't ready to play this game, but that happens a lot in the NFL after the bye week (Giants actually had this problem for years under multiple coaches).
On top of that, and just as importantly, we were playing a pissed off NFL Champion, Tom Brady-led team on Monday night football.
Giants fans are really, really tired of losing, but this outcome is not all that surprising.
Eric don’t you think it’s odd the Giants haven’t posted Judge’s presser to their website yet? Every other week it’s been up by now. Daniel’s is. But it’s like they know he dropped a bomb and they’re deciding if they need to edit it before it’s officially posted on our site. I had to dig deep on YouTube to find it.
Yeah I see it now on GiantsTV channel on Roku. It was relatively slow going up but I jumped the gun.
But seriously, maybe there is something about Judge's remark. Booker has looked pretty good on his touches, ditto Penny. Until and unless Saquon wants to do more with his, perhaps they should get most of them. If the OL can't pass block, maybe they should just try running it down the other team's throat until they loosen up. Couldn't look much worse than tonight.
They faced a defense that got picked apart by Heinicke. They had their full compliment of weapons. (I don't even count Shepard anymore because he's only played about every other week the past 3 years)
They are bottom 3 in points since Garrett was hired. The play call is predictable and unimaginative. They have not scored 30 points as an offense in a game since Garrett arrived, which is unthinkable in todays NFL.
Don't talk to me about the Oline or injuries..every team deals with injuries. Severals teams have Olines just as bad as the Giants. And there is no shortage of explosive plays and points for those teams.
Garrett doesn't get a pass. Hope he is gone tomorrow. If he is not, I think we have to start questioning Judge- you'd have to be blind to continue to trot Garrett out there as OC after watching what his offense through 25 games.
After Garrett, we have to start talking about the guy who has been under center for the duration of the time...but I won't get into that in this particular thread...
Scapegoating.
Do you think Judge or Mara brought Garrett in?
Every evaluation you make is downstream from that decision.
Scapegoating.
Agreed Hudge has responsibility in thus team sucking complete waffle wang
Offense would have been better with Booker tonight. In the last two games he averaged 4.5 yards per carry and a lot of it running right between the tackles on first down.
Big difference 2nd and 5, 2nd and 9. The pass rush tees off. Give the ball to Barkley up the middle on first down and he'll get two yards nine times, then break one for 25. That's not what Jones needs.
The Head Coach’s mouth considering he has zero feel for the game.
Joe Judge put on a stupidity clinic at the end of the first half, and there should be no hand wringing if he’s shown the door at season’s end.
Kurt Warner brought that up after week 2 and Garrett is still running the same plays. Receivers should be finding open spots...our WRs are all on one side of the field
By bringing it up you mean he didn't like one of a half a dozen plays that Garret designed and the other 6 or 7 were "Jones didn't see the receiver here" or "Jnnes needs to lead the receiver there" This Jones love and garret hate is unreal. You guys are resorting to lying at this point to cover for jones.
This was a really frustrating gameplan on both sides. All three coaches deserve the ripping they are getting-it’s as if Tampa didn’t have a million DBs injured and it’s as if we had every receiver still injured.
Too often this year we’ve played “we’re afraid to get beat!” Instead of “we’re going to beat YOU” and it’s on Judge. He has to recognize this and make changes.
All 3 have to go and Gettleman too
I have written for weeks how Grahams one note soft defense was driving me crazy and all year about how Garrett was sent here by Jerry Jones to destroy us
Just starting the Tiny Dancer at RB over Booker was outright criminal. It is magical that a 245 lb RB can hit with such little force BTW.
Also as Parcells said you have to throw the ball downfield to on occasion to keep the other team honest
If you are afraid of INTs the long ones are like punts, the short ones are game changing or often pick six
Going for it on 4th down was also just stupid. Kick the FG and make it 17-13
agreed
All the analysts said Tampa was very vulnerable to the pass
not so much the run
So we once again fail to attack their secondary and play short ball
Garrett is the worst OC I've ever seen
Thats exactally what hes doing
All 3 have to go and Gettleman too
I have written for weeks how Grahams one note soft defense was driving me crazy and all year about how Garrett was sent here by Jerry Jones to destroy us
Just starting the Tiny Dancer at RB over Booker was outright criminal. It is magical that a 245 lb RB can hit with such little force BTW.
Also as Parcells said you have to throw the ball downfield to on occasion to keep the other team honest
If you are afraid of INTs the long ones are like punts, the short ones are game changing or often pick six
Bro. "the timy dancer" lmfao you got me rolling hahahahaha. You know what? you might be onto something. Never thought that maybe Jones sent JG here to fuck us. Bet JG knows he's fucking us over and is still on Dallas payroll
If they pull the trigger on Garrett... then Kitchens will be interim OC
And Jones, I like the guy but that face
He looks like a Jim Carrey doppelganger
He looks like a robot out there
And Jones, I like the guy but that face
He looks like a Jim Carrey doppelganger
He looks like a robot out there
Hahahahaha. Yep bro, you're onto something. I kinda knew it! lmfao
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In comment 15463123 Eric from BBI said:
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om Rock
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@TomRock_Newsday
Judge said he told the players: “You just show up ready to go” on Wednesday. He says he’s be frustrated w the coaching if he was a player. “We have too many good players” to score just 10 pts he says. Says Golladay will get more targets.
Doesn't Jones make the ultimate decision on who to throw to?
No. It depends on the play design and where his first and second reads are.
What?
Giants weren't ready to play this game, but that happens a lot in the NFL after the bye week (Giants actually had this problem for years under multiple coaches).
On top of that, and just as importantly, we were playing a pissed off NFL Champion, Tom Brady-led team on Monday night football.
Any Giants fans will tell you that is a recipe for disaster.
Giants fans are really, really tired of losing, but this outcome is not all that surprising.
I also thought Graham had a quite crappy day. God awful. 3rd and long - giving Brady 6-8 seconds with three man rush.
In fact, my impression was the coaching staff should be fired.
Giants weren't ready to play this game, but that happens a lot in the NFL after the bye week (Giants actually had this problem for years under multiple coaches).
On top of that, and just as importantly, we were playing a pissed off NFL Champion, Tom Brady-led team on Monday night football.
Any Giants fans will tell you that is a recipe for disaster.
Giants fans are really, really tired of losing, but this outcome is not all that surprising.
Running game...no Stopping the run......no
Passing game...no Stooping the pass....no
Pass rush...we have none...against us....jail break.
Coaching acumen....What am is missing?
If they pull the trigger on Garrett... then Kitchens will be interim OC
Why Kitchens? When Fassel demoted his OC he took over the play calling himself
As have many HCs in this situation
Is Judge afraid to call plays?
Can Judge even fire Garrett as Mara hired Garrett?
Who can fire Mara, as he seems to be the blockade to success?
He is only 50% owner no? The Commissioner needs to step in again.
We need a President of Football Operations
I know this sounds crazy but I'd hire Lou Lamarillo even if football is not his specialty
Were Judge, Graham and Garrett really going to take a vastly inferior roster andbbeat Arians & Bowles? Fuck no. They got bent over a barrel like they usually do.
Yeah, sh!ty offensive game plan, but Garrett is the least of this offense's problems. An O line that can't couldn't stop Rooney Mara from getting into the backfield. A QB who's not quite sure which color jersey he should be throwing to, and doesn't see a wide open Golladay on a post with nothing but green between him and the end zone. A #2 pick who judging by the sum total of his contribution to winning games so far in his NFL career is a bust. I could go on.
Yeah, players could be better used. But if you add nothin' to nothin', you still get nothin'.
Is it the whole Oline or just Hernandez?
Yes JG has to go. Watching (on multiple occasions) Jones move players from right to left, call motion late in play clock to then call a handoff into the line is comical. Both Riddick and Griese said that's it? All that movement and changing positions to just do that!! Think about what that does to an online, to the TE's on the line as the clock is ticking - you are taking their "drive", their "power" away by the long delay before the snap, putting them in a prime position to false start, to try too hard to get to s spot etc. All for a play that has zero chance of producing more than 4 yards and way more likely to produce 0 or negative yards. Plays like this are beyond overly complicated.
3rd and 4th downs with less than 5 yards we call rollouts to the short side of the field with multiple targets all to the most congested area of the field. Horrible calls, horrible plays and just pathetic overall.
That said Jones was pathetic last night. He was so awful I can't even begin to defend him. Watching Brady go to the guy getting open and then watching Jones look to a covered Toney even as your high priced WR KG cross in front of him OPEN was just bad football. We have now reached the point of no return. The embarrassing int to the BUCS DLmen was just fodder for the Giants are a joke people. It was truly awful.
Garrett has to go but Jones needs to go after the season as well. It is over..
One last thing- higher a new GM, if he wants a new coach that is fine with me and use our soon to be 2 top 5 picks to fix this team.
Yes JG has to go. Watching (on multiple occasions) Jones move players from right to left, call motion late in play clock to then call a handoff into the line is comical. Both Riddick and Griese said that's it? All that movement and changing positions to just do that!! Think about what that does to an online, to the TE's on the line as the clock is ticking - you are taking their "drive", their "power" away by the long delay before the snap, putting them in a prime position to false start, to try too hard to get to s spot etc. All for a play that has zero chance of producing more than 4 yards and way more likely to produce 0 or negative yards. Plays like this are beyond overly complicated.
3rd and 4th downs with less than 5 yards we call rollouts to the short side of the field with multiple targets all to the most congested area of the field. Horrible calls, horrible plays and just pathetic overall.
That said Jones was pathetic last night. He was so awful I can't even begin to defend him. Watching Brady go to the guy getting open and then watching Jones look to a covered Toney even as your high priced WR KG cross in front of him OPEN was just bad football. We have now reached the point of no return. The embarrassing int to the BUCS DLmen was just fodder for the Giants are a joke people. It was truly awful.
Garrett has to go but Jones needs to go after the season as well. It is over..
One last thing- higher a new GM, if he wants a new coach that is fine with me and use our soon to be 2 top 5 picks to fix this team.
Joe Judge has zero feel for the game, and you need no further proof than watching the Giants offense with 55 seconds left in the first half. That wasn't just stupid... that was scary stupid. And Joe Judge needs to go.
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before making a change. Anyone with a casual interest in football could see it was a problem.
If they pull the trigger on Garrett... then Kitchens will be interim OC
Why Kitchens? When Fassel demoted his OC he took over the play calling himself
As have many HCs in this situation
Is Judge afraid to call plays?
Can Judge even fire Garrett as Mara hired Garrett?
Who can fire Mara, as he seems to be the blockade to success?
He is only 50% owner no? The Commissioner needs to step in again.
We need a President of Football Operations
I know this sounds crazy but I'd hire Lou Lamarillo even if football is not his specialty
Judge has never been an OC, unlike Fassel.
Nobody has earned the right for another season.
We are really bad.
And like many others here I have started to get bored by this team which is even worse than being frustrated. I find myself half paying attention to a lot of these games and like last night, simply turning it off in the third quarter.
Can anyone else on the staff beside Kitchen take over play calling???
We both feel the same about this.
But if you think about it there are no strong personalities in this group from Mara to Gettleman to Judge to his Coordinators they are all wishy washy wet noodles.
If Judge wants to save his ass he needs to fire both these coordinators right now. Neither one has half a set of Cajonnes on them. They play everything safe. No aggression
Both need testosterone tests
I'm convinced its not the players its the coaches
if you were an offensive lineman, how hard would you try for a dump off pass or a rum by Barkley
These guys were trying hard for Booker.....no Booker....no effort
Judge has a good temperment for the job but precious little background or experience to be an NFL HC
Mara has to fly down to Alabama and at least take some advice from Saban over a nice dinner, if not offer him the moon to take over the team
Good riddance Garrett.
Bingo.
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Whats your real name.....Jerry Jones?
Good point.
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Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Whats your real name.....Jerry Jones?
LOL. He's older and uglier than me. By a lot.
It's hard to get a pass rush when you have no pass rushers. That is on one person, and it isn't Patrick Graham.
If you blitz Tom Brady, you die. So it is either give up the big play, or force TB to nickel and dime down the field. PG chose the latter.
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What about Judge?
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both need to go.
What about Judge?
I was just gonna say that. Gettleman and Judge need to be a package deal out the door.
In comment 15463519 Arkbach said:
I hate this offense and what is designed to do.
BUT, I have lost faith in Jones too though. All issues aside he missed Golladay wide open across the middle deep in TB territory (those plays are the difference between so so guys and winners), he threw a HORRIBLE int and the other INT wasn't any better just easier to not look as tragic.
Hernandez may still have some lingering COVID issues, IDK, but he just looks weak. Someone take away his roller skates.
Booker is the best running back on the team right now.
What ever happened to he idea that offense is a progression? I see no development anywhere in the skills of any of these players, nor do I see any development in the play calling. Our coaches cannot teach.
No. It depends on the play design and where his first and second reads are.
What?
That's the BS answer people like to give to absolve Jones of blame. It also relies on the ridiculous belief that the game is played on paper and that the "reads" are set in stone in the film room.
In reality, it's Daniel Jones's JOB to read the defense at the line of scrimmage, and determine:
a) If the play called in the huddle needs to be adjusted
b) Which receiver is likely to be open
For instance, when you have Kadarius Toney in the slot being covered by a safety with nobody over the top, maybe you should make THAT your primary target and throw the goddamn ball to the pylon and let him go catch it.
Or, when you have Kenny Golladay wide the hell open for a TD in the middle of the field, don't get stuck on your "first read" on the sideline who isn't (and won't be) open then chuck the ball into the 3rd row.
It's not paint-by-numbers, the position requires instincts and decisiveness and Jones has neither of those things. I'm sure in the classroom he's a great QB, but that doesn't matter on the field.
So to answer the original question, Daniel Jones absolutely decides where to throw the ball, and he's not good at it unless his "on paper" first read happens to be open.
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It's hard to get a pass rush when you have no pass rushers. That is on one person, and it isn't Patrick Graham.
If you blitz Tom Brady, you die. So it is either give up the big play, or force TB to nickel and dime down the field. PG chose the latter.
Yes but what about all those posters who said “don’t worry about the lack of pass rushers; Graham can manufacture a pass rush. It’s the Belichick way”
What a crock of horse shit.
I recall reading some on here last week saying Hernandez was playing the best of the whole OL this year.
it was a bit shocking actually...
Don't think a real offensive coordinator could scheme some play that would negate the bad offensive line?
Of course they could.
Judge is a BS artist. This team is not what he said it would be. Blue Collar punch you in the nose fight for 60 minutes. Sure ok. Talk is cheap. If this is the process then the process sucks. You don't build a winning team by losing. Is the Mississippi job available?
Toney, Barkley, Golladay. These 3 players should be game planned around play after play
Change it up and game plan around fumbles Engram or the new fumbles Slayton
Garrett sucks. But so does Jones, our OL and game plan
Making Shurmur look good at this point
Yep and they are. Stupid mistakes on coaching. That 4th an 1 rush the play for an incompletion total out of sync sealed it for me. Probably the most important play of the game and they were clueless. Call a timeout ( I know they waste to many of those) but that play was important and they paniced.
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we don't need to choose.
Yep and they are. Stupid mistakes on coaching. That 4th an 1 rush the play for an incompletion total out of sync sealed it for me. Probably the most important play of the game and they were clueless. Call a timeout ( I know they waste to many of those) but that play was important and they paniced.
Yea except Garret has a decade track record of success. Jones has 3 good games from 3 years ago against the worst teams in the league.
Hard to believe that DJ’s lack of productivity falls on coaching. If you watched last nights game DJ was light a deer in headlights all night long. Still looking down a single receiver and I still say he seldom makes adjustments at the line of scrimmage. Blame who you want but DJ is not the answer
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That doesnt absolve anyone else, it doesnt mean a change will make it better but Garrett is not helping anything and may be making things worse
I don't get the reluctance to sit a player for a series to make a point. There is (almost) no one on this team who is above that.
That's my biggest issue, with clock management and conservative game plans on both sides of the ball a close second and third.
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"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Do Not Include Colombo in any discussion on the Giants line. He sucked.
We hired the guy who made the morning Dunkin' Donuts run for Little Bill as HC because, once again, the owners sold themselves on a one-line narrative and are now shocked by the results. So now fire Garrett, and I could care less, so His Majesty, in his unfailing judgment, can install one of his asshole MSU buddies in as OC and that will fix everything.
Baker Mayfield would have figured out a way to complete that pass
These are the best coaches they can find?
Fuck you Giants.
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In comment 15463519 Arkbach said:
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"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Do Not Include Colombo in any discussion on the Giants line. He sucked.
wow and it also shows Tampa getting immediate pressure on a 3-man rush because Will Hernandez and Billy Price f*cking up an easy double team block to get pressure right up the middle on Daniel Jones.
Maybe its not the best designed play and surely executed poorly. But it would help if Hernandez and Price didn't get blown up by 1 guy.
He also had Golladay open on the outside at the bottom of the screen.
But Orlovsky and others trying to deflect all blame from Jones is absurd. He consistently misses reads and throws NFL QBs should make with ease. And he turns the ball over more than he scores touchdowns. He's not any good.
3 man rush and they knock QB down...ridiculous.
Solder stinks yes but what the hell is Billy Price doing? The answer is nothing.
And why can't Jones step up and escape to his left instead of waiting to see all of his targets bump into each other like the Keystone Cops?
Just awful. And to think, they practice and still do this...
They all suck.
What a disgrace this franchise is.
Same Shit, different game.
I don't agree that Graham should also get canned, at least not yet. The D is on the field way too much due to the O's futility.
When your O sucks so bad and rarely has a sustained drive, resulting in lopsided time of possession; it isn't totally irrelevant.
TOP: Bucs 36 min. Giants 24.
I know the D not making stops and getting off the field is also part of it, but the horrible O doesn't help.
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Maybe its not the best designed play and surely executed poorly. But it would help if Hernandez and Price didn't get blown up by 1 guy.
He also had Golladay open on the outside at the bottom of the screen.
But Orlovsky and others trying to deflect all blame from Jones is absurd. He consistently misses reads and throws NFL QBs should make with ease. And he turns the ball over more than he scores touchdowns. He's not any good.
Yeah, I've got to think somebody (at least one) ran the wrong route. I think JG is awful, but even he wouldn't be stupid enough to draw up a play like that.
Unless he's still on Jerry Jones's payroll...
Several cases he had people open? Got any videos or links? The only time I seen him absolutely miss a big play was when he threw early to Joka and should have waited for Golladay over the middle.
here is a fact - they are all underperforming (from the top down to practically every player on the team). Trying to suggest that one change is going to "fix" everything is just stupid and removes any credibility you may otherwise have.
"Loves" everyone and is in a kind of trance.
His face on the sidelines is emotionless.
He does not seem to be "into" the games.....perhaps Jerry's firing him has permanently traumatized the guy.
He needs to go home and sort out "where to go from here"
He is not helping the Giants at all.
I hate to see anyone get fired but this one is overdue.
They will more likely retain him as some sort of QB consultant or such but thats not a good idea either
I remember Mara announced Coughlin was retained as a "consultant" when he fired him....wonder if Tom ever consulted with the Giants after that day
He wants to be a head coach. My guess is he doesn't get another HC job for a couple seasons if he flames out here.
Oh, stop. That was an unsubstantiated rumor from a troll that BBI mods should have already gotten rid of.
Thomas coming off an injury - have been looking for replacements for Hernandez and Solder for 2 years. and other two are patches on a flat tire.
OL and LB will be big needs in draft
SteveMD
Thomas coming off an injury - have been looking for replacements for Hernandez and Solder for 2 years. and other two are patches on a flat tire.
OL and LB will be big needs in draft
ER is a huge need. Whichever poster said Brady on a smoke break on his passes was right. I did love the sequence where the ER on the Giants tried to beat the OT and fell down twice in the same way both times in two straight plays.
I mean entertain us he will cause nightmares and if not so what
we tried something out of the box which we've been in for years
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"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Columbo was well on his way to making Andrew Thomas a bust. Getting rid of the Columbo was by far the best thing Judge has done.
Too many blockers to his potential success, and Garrett was one of them.
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Nobody is gonna wanna come here if we keep setting them up to fail, then fire them.
We are the 1980's Detroit Lions, and the 2000's Browns.
People laugh at the silly gyrations the Giants make trying to fix stuff, like it's gonna help. What an embarrassment.
"THROW THE DAMN BALL DOWN THE DAMN FIELD"
they stubbornly refuse to lob one up. Hey if its a jump ball the WR usually get the ball, kills the ball, or gets the call
These knuckleheads are not anything if not STUBBBBBOOORRRRNNN
they are driving me CRRRRAZZZYYYYY
Thomas coming off an injury - have been looking for replacements for Hernandez and Solder for 2 years. and other two are patches on a flat tire.
OL and LB will be big needs in draft
they would have beaten that team if they just left Booker in the backfield and put the Tiny Dancer on the bench
Tampa was certainly not better than Vegas
If something is working "DONT CHANGE IT"
Jon Huffnagel (sp?) and Tim Lewis iirc