In his pc, said he would be frustrated if he was a player too. By the playcalling not putting players in position to succeed. Then didn’t say no when asked about a coordinatior change.
Judge has been saying they need to coach better since the first loss they had under him. And he could just as well have been talking about Graham as Garrett. Why were our CBs playing 15 yards off the LOS? How could we NOT get a hit on Brady in the 1st half when everyone knows thats the only way to beat him? How is Shelton on the field?! Don't get me wrong, Garretts atrocious but as Judge said the fish stinks from the head down. Personnel decisions are mind boggling; No Golladay on the 4th down play, Reggie Ragland still starting Solder and not Peart, how is Hernandez still starting, again shelton. What happened just before halftime is another example of Judge not quite being ready for the NFL. He needs sometime in college to iron those kinks out. Scary thing is, I don't have any confidence that the next GM, HC, OC, DC or any player will be good. As a recently deleted thread stated, I'm a diehard fan being turned into a casual fan because of the teams utter ineptitude. When you enjoy listening to Kevin Hart more than watching the game you know your team sucks. Hes a fing eagles fan for gsake!
We both feel the same about this.
But if you think about it there are no strong personalities in this group from Mara to Gettleman to Judge to his Coordinators they are all wishy washy wet noodles.
If Judge wants to save his ass he needs to fire both these coordinators right now. Neither one has half a set of Cajonnes on them. They play everything safe. No aggression
Both need testosterone tests
I'm convinced its not the players its the coaches
if you were an offensive lineman, how hard would you try for a dump off pass or a rum by Barkley
These guys were trying hard for Booker.....no Booker....no effort
Judge has a good temperment for the job but precious little background or experience to be an NFL HC
Mara has to fly down to Alabama and at least take some advice from Saban over a nice dinner, if not offer him the moon to take over the team
In 24 games over 2 seasons,he has 20.Toney had the longest throw last night. Garrett never lets Jones go long.Garrett was Mara's choice,not Judge's. And the reality is,for the Giants to be good again,Mara needs to step back & have no input on the moves made. There's no Rozelle stepping in with George Young this time! And,when DG goes,it doesn't remedy the situation,as Mara's son has as much say in who they draft.The Maras have to be like Tisch & be a silent owner!
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
i was so focused on how bad WH was on that play but look at the cluster fuck in the middle of the field. This is something I have complained a lot about in terms of play selection, play design, as we actually make it easier to defend us by bringing both our guys and the defenders to the main point/main target area of the play. We run so many plays where we have 3-4 targets all roughly the same distance and on the same plane (could be a 5 yard distance and then basically all the same across the field) or we cluster players to the same general area- and we usually run a rollout in that same direction, thus congesting the field and limiting our options do to shrinking the available field space by 2/3's.
I hate this offense and what is designed to do.
BUT, I have lost faith in Jones too though. All issues aside he missed Golladay wide open across the middle deep in TB territory (those plays are the difference between so so guys and winners), he threw a HORRIBLE int and the other INT wasn't any better just easier to not look as tragic.
Watching Garrett and Jones sitting next to each other on the sideline last night.... I never want to see that degree of defeat in my coordinator's and QB's face like that ever again. I don't care how much we suck.
Hernandez may still have some lingering COVID issues, IDK, but he just looks weak. Someone take away his roller skates.
Booker is the best running back on the team right now.
What ever happened to he idea that offense is a progression? I see no development anywhere in the skills of any of these players, nor do I see any development in the play calling. Our coaches cannot teach.
Doesn't Jones make the ultimate decision on who to throw to?
No. It depends on the play design and where his first and second reads are.
What?
That's the BS answer people like to give to absolve Jones of blame. It also relies on the ridiculous belief that the game is played on paper and that the "reads" are set in stone in the film room.
In reality, it's Daniel Jones's JOB to read the defense at the line of scrimmage, and determine:
a) If the play called in the huddle needs to be adjusted
b) Which receiver is likely to be open
For instance, when you have Kadarius Toney in the slot being covered by a safety with nobody over the top, maybe you should make THAT your primary target and throw the goddamn ball to the pylon and let him go catch it.
Or, when you have Kenny Golladay wide the hell open for a TD in the middle of the field, don't get stuck on your "first read" on the sideline who isn't (and won't be) open then chuck the ball into the 3rd row.
It's not paint-by-numbers, the position requires instincts and decisiveness and Jones has neither of those things. I'm sure in the classroom he's a great QB, but that doesn't matter on the field.
So to answer the original question, Daniel Jones absolutely decides where to throw the ball, and he's not good at it unless his "on paper" first read happens to be open.
You can bring in the greatest offensive and defensive coordinators in history and it would not make a shred of difference. The OL basically sucks. Hernandez is a joke and should never been on this roster. His play has gone down hill since Year 1. Only thing he is good at is getting penalties and getting into scrums. The defense is bad. Not sure what you would expect someone to do with basically one talented lineman and no credible players to play LB. If they do not get a legit LB for next year they all should be fired.
You can bring in the greatest offensive and defensive coordinators in history and it would not make a shred of difference. The OL basically sucks. Hernandez is a joke and should never been on this roster. His play has gone down hill since Year 1. Only thing he is good at is getting penalties and getting into scrums. The defense is bad. Not sure what you would expect someone to do with basically one talented lineman and no credible players to play LB. If they do not get a legit LB for next year they all should be fired.
I recall reading some on here last week saying Hernandez was playing the best of the whole OL this year.
Period. If he wants to be here next year, he needs to do whatever he can to make that happen. If they pull a goose egg down the stretch and it's another McAdoo like finish, I have a hard time seeing Judge back. He's not getting results.
Judge is a BS artist. This team is not what he said it would be. Blue Collar punch you in the nose fight for 60 minutes. Sure ok. Talk is cheap. If this is the process then the process sucks. You don't build a winning team by losing. Is the Mississippi job available?
Yep and they are. Stupid mistakes on coaching. That 4th an 1 rush the play for an incompletion total out of sync sealed it for me. Probably the most important play of the game and they were clueless. Call a timeout ( I know they waste to many of those) but that play was important and they paniced.
RE: RE: Guys, Jones and Garrett can both be terrible.
Yep and they are. Stupid mistakes on coaching. That 4th an 1 rush the play for an incompletion total out of sync sealed it for me. Probably the most important play of the game and they were clueless. Call a timeout ( I know they waste to many of those) but that play was important and they paniced.
Yea except Garret has a decade track record of success. Jones has 3 good games from 3 years ago against the worst teams in the league.
In 24 games over 2 seasons,he has 20.Toney had the longest throw last night. Garrett never lets Jones go long.Garrett was Mara's choice,not Judge's. And the reality is,for the Giants to be good again,Mara needs to step back & have no input on the moves made. There's no Rozelle stepping in with George Young this time! And,when DG goes,it doesn't remedy the situation,as Mara's son has as much say in who they draft.The Maras have to be like Tisch & be a silent owner!
Hard to believe that DJ’s lack of productivity falls on coaching. If you watched last nights game DJ was light a deer in headlights all night long. Still looking down a single receiver and I still say he seldom makes adjustments at the line of scrimmage. Blame who you want but DJ is not the answer
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
of the no-effort, non-blocks from Golladay on the screen and multiple Hernandez, Barkley whiffs, it seems clear that despite a general lack of talent, there is no accountability on poor performances coming from the coaching staff.
I don't get the reluctance to sit a player for a series to make a point. There is (almost) no one on this team who is above that.
That's my biggest issue, with clock management and conservative game plans on both sides of the ball a close second and third.
then Gettleman at the end of season. Bring in a new head of football operations from a winning organization, let him hire a new GM, and together they pick a new coach. Draft a QB with one pick and do multiple trade downs with the other to accumulate 3 players or so. If we start over, we will have another 3-5 year rebuild but hopefully we see improvement year to year. Doing the same thing over and over, and getting the same results, is the definition of insanity. I have been a Giants fan all my life - but I am slowly losing interest in this team. Thank God for UGA football or I'd have nothing but misery this year.
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Do Not Include Colombo in any discussion on the Giants line. He sucked.
and fire both coordinators. Here is a trivia question, when Coughlin was hired, who were his coordinators, both OC and DC?
Here's a trivia question. When Coughlin was hired, how many times had he already been to the conference championship game as an NFL HC? Would any of his assistants felt free to go on a snipe hunt the night before a game?
We hired the guy who made the morning Dunkin' Donuts run for Little Bill as HC because, once again, the owners sold themselves on a one-line narrative and are now shocked by the results. So now fire Garrett, and I could care less, so His Majesty, in his unfailing judgment, can install one of his asshole MSU buddies in as OC and that will fix everything.
and i can't say i blame them. i don't think firing garrett at this late stage, in a lost season, is going to make a bit of difference. you still have a coach who doesn't understand how to use time-outs and a quarterback who can't read the field.
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Do Not Include Colombo in any discussion on the Giants line. He sucked.
You miss the point. Judge's divine intervention and installation of one of his asshole buddies hasn't helped. It may actually be worse. Oh and for the Kitchen Klatch, Freddie is supposed to be the "Senior Offensive Assistant". What is his responsibility for the fire in the dumpster?
wow and it also shows Tampa getting immediate pressure on a 3-man rush because Will Hernandez and Billy Price f*cking up an easy double team block to get pressure right up the middle on Daniel Jones.
but he is in no way part of the solution. He is getting fired, either because they all get fired at the end of the year or now. There is no reason to wait.
Maybe its not the best designed play and surely executed poorly. But it would help if Hernandez and Price didn't get blown up by 1 guy.
He also had Golladay open on the outside at the bottom of the screen.
But Orlovsky and others trying to deflect all blame from Jones is absurd. He consistently misses reads and throws NFL QBs should make with ease. And he turns the ball over more than he scores touchdowns. He's not any good.
We both feel the same about this.
But if you think about it there are no strong personalities in this group from Mara to Gettleman to Judge to his Coordinators they are all wishy washy wet noodles.
If Judge wants to save his ass he needs to fire both these coordinators right now. Neither one has half a set of Cajonnes on them. They play everything safe. No aggression
Both need testosterone tests
I'm convinced its not the players its the coaches
if you were an offensive lineman, how hard would you try for a dump off pass or a rum by Barkley
These guys were trying hard for Booker.....no Booker....no effort
Judge has a good temperment for the job but precious little background or experience to be an NFL HC
Mara has to fly down to Alabama and at least take some advice from Saban over a nice dinner, if not offer him the moon to take over the team
Good riddance Garrett.
Bingo.
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Whats your real name.....Jerry Jones?
Good point.
Quote:
Does he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved is Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Does Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Of all the problems that beset this ugly franchise, Jason Garrett ain't even in the Top 5.
Whats your real name.....Jerry Jones?
LOL. He's older and uglier than me. By a lot.
It's hard to get a pass rush when you have no pass rushers. That is on one person, and it isn't Patrick Graham.
If you blitz Tom Brady, you die. So it is either give up the big play, or force TB to nickel and dime down the field. PG chose the latter.
Link - ( New Window )
What about Judge?
Quote:
both need to go.
What about Judge?
I was just gonna say that. Gettleman and Judge need to be a package deal out the door.
In comment 15463519 Arkbach said:
I hate this offense and what is designed to do.
BUT, I have lost faith in Jones too though. All issues aside he missed Golladay wide open across the middle deep in TB territory (those plays are the difference between so so guys and winners), he threw a HORRIBLE int and the other INT wasn't any better just easier to not look as tragic.
Hernandez may still have some lingering COVID issues, IDK, but he just looks weak. Someone take away his roller skates.
Booker is the best running back on the team right now.
What ever happened to he idea that offense is a progression? I see no development anywhere in the skills of any of these players, nor do I see any development in the play calling. Our coaches cannot teach.
No. It depends on the play design and where his first and second reads are.
What?
That's the BS answer people like to give to absolve Jones of blame. It also relies on the ridiculous belief that the game is played on paper and that the "reads" are set in stone in the film room.
In reality, it's Daniel Jones's JOB to read the defense at the line of scrimmage, and determine:
a) If the play called in the huddle needs to be adjusted
b) Which receiver is likely to be open
For instance, when you have Kadarius Toney in the slot being covered by a safety with nobody over the top, maybe you should make THAT your primary target and throw the goddamn ball to the pylon and let him go catch it.
Or, when you have Kenny Golladay wide the hell open for a TD in the middle of the field, don't get stuck on your "first read" on the sideline who isn't (and won't be) open then chuck the ball into the 3rd row.
It's not paint-by-numbers, the position requires instincts and decisiveness and Jones has neither of those things. I'm sure in the classroom he's a great QB, but that doesn't matter on the field.
So to answer the original question, Daniel Jones absolutely decides where to throw the ball, and he's not good at it unless his "on paper" first read happens to be open.
Quote:
It's hard to get a pass rush when you have no pass rushers. That is on one person, and it isn't Patrick Graham.
If you blitz Tom Brady, you die. So it is either give up the big play, or force TB to nickel and dime down the field. PG chose the latter.
Yes but what about all those posters who said “don’t worry about the lack of pass rushers; Graham can manufacture a pass rush. It’s the Belichick way”
What a crock of horse shit.
I recall reading some on here last week saying Hernandez was playing the best of the whole OL this year.
it was a bit shocking actually...
Don't think a real offensive coordinator could scheme some play that would negate the bad offensive line?
Of course they could.
Judge is a BS artist. This team is not what he said it would be. Blue Collar punch you in the nose fight for 60 minutes. Sure ok. Talk is cheap. If this is the process then the process sucks. You don't build a winning team by losing. Is the Mississippi job available?
Toney, Barkley, Golladay. These 3 players should be game planned around play after play
Change it up and game plan around fumbles Engram or the new fumbles Slayton
Garrett sucks. But so does Jones, our OL and game plan
Making Shurmur look good at this point
Yep and they are. Stupid mistakes on coaching. That 4th an 1 rush the play for an incompletion total out of sync sealed it for me. Probably the most important play of the game and they were clueless. Call a timeout ( I know they waste to many of those) but that play was important and they paniced.
Quote:
we don't need to choose.
Yep and they are. Stupid mistakes on coaching. That 4th an 1 rush the play for an incompletion total out of sync sealed it for me. Probably the most important play of the game and they were clueless. Call a timeout ( I know they waste to many of those) but that play was important and they paniced.
Yea except Garret has a decade track record of success. Jones has 3 good games from 3 years ago against the worst teams in the league.
Hard to believe that DJ’s lack of productivity falls on coaching. If you watched last nights game DJ was light a deer in headlights all night long. Still looking down a single receiver and I still say he seldom makes adjustments at the line of scrimmage. Blame who you want but DJ is not the answer
Link - ( New Window )
That doesnt absolve anyone else, it doesnt mean a change will make it better but Garrett is not helping anything and may be making things worse
I don't get the reluctance to sit a player for a series to make a point. There is (almost) no one on this team who is above that.
That's my biggest issue, with clock management and conservative game plans on both sides of the ball a close second and third.
Quote:
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Do Not Include Colombo in any discussion on the Giants line. He sucked.
We hired the guy who made the morning Dunkin' Donuts run for Little Bill as HC because, once again, the owners sold themselves on a one-line narrative and are now shocked by the results. So now fire Garrett, and I could care less, so His Majesty, in his unfailing judgment, can install one of his asshole MSU buddies in as OC and that will fix everything.
Baker Mayfield would have figured out a way to complete that pass
These are the best coaches they can find?
Fuck you Giants.
Quote:
In comment 15463519 Arkbach said:
Quote:
"do they practice that play"? Rumors of coaches drinking and flirting with the ladies the night before the game looks like another reason Judge is pissed at his coaches. Remember all the coaches they hired to "teach". We laughed at training camp about one coach for every player and this is the result? If I were Mara I'd fire half of them now because they obviously aren't needed and that one play epitomizes it.
Include the HC in that. Remember when he got into a beef with Columbo because His Majesty knew how to coach o-line better than a guy who played the position in the NFL? How did His Majesty's special touch with the o-line work out for us? He's the head guy and this shit show is his responsibility.
Do Not Include Colombo in any discussion on the Giants line. He sucked.
wow and it also shows Tampa getting immediate pressure on a 3-man rush because Will Hernandez and Billy Price f*cking up an easy double team block to get pressure right up the middle on Daniel Jones.
Maybe its not the best designed play and surely executed poorly. But it would help if Hernandez and Price didn't get blown up by 1 guy.
He also had Golladay open on the outside at the bottom of the screen.
But Orlovsky and others trying to deflect all blame from Jones is absurd. He consistently misses reads and throws NFL QBs should make with ease. And he turns the ball over more than he scores touchdowns. He's not any good.
3 man rush and they knock QB down...ridiculous.
Solder stinks yes but what the hell is Billy Price doing? The answer is nothing.
And why can't Jones step up and escape to his left instead of waiting to see all of his targets bump into each other like the Keystone Cops?
Just awful. And to think, they practice and still do this...
They all suck.
What a disgrace this franchise is.
Same Shit, different game.