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if not jones then who?

NotIraInSI : 11/23/2021 8:15 am
draft choice or veteran?
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RE: i'd look to bring in any journeyman vet  
madeinstars : 11/23/2021 8:40 am : link
In comment 15463509 japanhead said:
Quote:
i'd rather have colt mccoy or glennon starting than jones at this point. he simply doesn't see the field.

i know his defenders will excuse his abysmal play by pointing to the offensive line but the whole reasoning behind moving on from eli was that OL play had declined league-wide and a modern team needed a QB that could make off-schedule plays from a dirty pocket. the irony is that eli was far better at doing this than jones has been.

jones just does not have the mental makeup to play QB and to think and react quickly.


Not only this, but Jones makes it virtually impossible to evaluate our skill position players. I'd rather see what we have in Golloday, Toney and others with a competent veteran throing them the ball.
RE: Malik Willis  
jvm52106 : 11/23/2021 8:42 am : link
In comment 15463489 cjac said:
Quote:
I'm going to say his name as much as possible, because when he ends up on another team and is an NFL superstar, we can look back and be mad the Giants didnt draft him


I will go on record- he will not amount to anything in the NFL. Hate the way he throws, do not see a guy who would be too level in SEC or Big 10, he is hype not reality . Hard pass!
RE: RE: Malik Willis  
jeff57 : 11/23/2021 8:45 am : link
In comment 15463511 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15463489 cjac said:


Quote:


I'm going to say his name as much as possible, because when he ends up on another team and is an NFL superstar, we can look back and be mad the Giants didnt draft him



The same Malik Willis who had a QB rating of 17 versus Louisiana Lafayette?


And who's thrown 11 INTs in his last 6 games
The discussion should be who is making  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/23/2021 8:52 am : link
that selection. Most have understood Dave is gone at years end.

Has Judge shown enough to have major input in this critical choice? Abrams or another internal hire? Judge having strong input in the next GM?

I want to see how the team plays the rest of the year. They have four division games and for me Judge's future is tied to those games.
I'd sign a veteran  
Bramton1 : 11/23/2021 8:54 am : link
And have a good old fashioned quarterback competition in training camp and the preseason.
Andy Dalton  
Mark from Jersey : 11/23/2021 8:57 am : link
I kid I kid
RE: The question  
UConn4523 : 11/23/2021 8:59 am : link
In comment 15463464 jeff57 said:
Quote:
I'll love to see the answers. If people think this year's crop of QBs are worth drafting high in the first round, they're going to be disappointed. And if they think trading two first rounders for a declining, cap busting, Russell Wilson is the answer, they'll end up feeling the same.


We wouldn't get him for those two 1sts but if somehow we pulled that off I can guarantee you we wouldn't feel the same. In fact, I think we'd be a playoff team next year.
We’d be a playoff team with Wilson  
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 9:03 am : link
Have you seen some of the Olines he’s played with? Not much of a downgrade here
Giants  
Sammo85 : 11/23/2021 9:09 am : link
need to stop the celebrity draft pick status game and make sure there's more depth and competition in spots at RB and QB.

Not having a suitable RB stable outside of Barkley has doomed the offense at times and Giants have frankly some of worst RB units going back five years plus. This was not a philosophy when Giants were under Accorsi or Reese (they always kept picking or adding solid complementary RBs).

You should always keep adding a QB pick or prospect to your roster every year or two and Giants should definitely do something to put Jones feet to the fire. I'm sick and tired of the excuses from year to year (despite production his first season, everyone blamed Shurmur for his turnover propensity, second year, everyone blamed the lack of weapons and his injuries, this year, we're back to line play and coordinator). I see a QB who still lacks feel for the pocket and can't elevate players around him (he needs them to make his job easier). You don't invest in that guy as your franchise QB and give him an extension.
RE: The discussion should be who is making  
jeff57 : 11/23/2021 9:11 am : link
In comment 15463541 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
that selection. Most have understood Dave is gone at years end.

Has Judge shown enough to have major input in this critical choice? Abrams or another internal hire? Judge having strong input in the next GM?

I want to see how the team plays the rest of the year. They have four division games and for me Judge's future is tied to those games.


Judge is gone if they plan on bringing in a GM from the outside. Should be gone in any event. NRFPT.
RE: RE: I'd give DJ one more year  
AcidTest : 11/23/2021 9:11 am : link
In comment 15463465 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463457 Anakim said:


Quote:


The options simply aren't there



This.


Also agree. But I would look for a veteran to compete with Jones. His tenure with the Giants will most likely end after next season.
You aren't getting anything from Jones  
HomerJones45 : 11/23/2021 9:16 am : link
that you wouldn't get from Case Keenum or Tyrod Taylor or Ryan Fitzpatrick. Jones is not a qb you build the franchise around as he is flat out not good enough and doesn't have the throwing skills that would justify that commitment. Resources need to be spent at rb, lb, edge, and o-line and then worry about getting the qb and we have no cap to burn thanks to the organizations lack of dispassionate self-scouting.
A lot depends on what happens in the front office  
Section331 : 11/23/2021 9:18 am : link
this off-season, and to the coaching staff. A new GM will have zero loyalty to Jones, and may decide to either draft his replacement, or find a veteran to either start or at least push Jones. The idea of bringing in a guy like Glennon, who was never going to threaten Jones for the job, was an awful decision, one of many for this dinosaur of a GM.

Not getting involved when Jax was looking to trade Gardner Minshew was a terrible decision. He cost the Eagles a 6th rounder, and at the very least, he would have provided some competition on the practice field and in the film room.
RE: You aren't getting anything from Jones  
Section331 : 11/23/2021 9:19 am : link
In comment 15463603 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
that you wouldn't get from Case Keenum or Tyrod Taylor or Ryan Fitzpatrick. Jones is not a qb you build the franchise around as he is flat out not good enough and doesn't have the throwing skills that would justify that commitment. Resources need to be spent at rb, lb, edge, and o-line and then worry about getting the qb and we have no cap to burn thanks to the organizations lack of dispassionate self-scouting.


The cold reality is that Jones isn't as good as any of those guys.
Jones gets another year  
bluewave : 11/23/2021 9:35 am : link
at worse you use him as a stop gap until next year's draft rolls around. This draft you fix OL and get another good edge guy!
RE: I'd give DJ one more year  
MeanBunny : 11/23/2021 9:45 am : link
We aren't ready for a new QB-or we get into the Jets cycle where they are ruined in 2 games. Alex Smith was ruined for years after the first 2 coaches with Niners. Just get some junker journeyman. Dump Gettleman, find somebody who can suss out decent talent. Its going to take 5 years or more. We blew it in the offseason. Why did why blow so much on Golliday as well? We don't even use the guy
Mike Glennon looked very competent against the Cowboys  
Batenhorst7 : 11/23/2021 10:20 am : link
Id give him a shot

Jones would benefit from some bench time right now

Id say Glennon has more poise and the better arm of the two

Jones can move around better but Glennon at 6'5 6'6 whatever he is can see the field better

Garrett has ruined Jones spirit and confidence
Glennon would be the better choice right now

The ringer is you have to stay with Booker at RB
The Tiny Dancer is one of the worst Draft picks of all time

Frankly even Ron Dayne hit the hole harder
RE: I'd give DJ one more year  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 10:26 am : link
In comment 15463457 Anakim said:
Quote:
The options simply aren't there


No. No. No.

Stop 'giving' people years.
Can I have a year.  
Producer : 11/23/2021 10:28 am : link
I'll only charge $1M.

You won't know what you have in me until we have a great O-line, btw.
RE: RE: I'd give DJ one more year  
Thunderstruck27 : 11/23/2021 10:28 am : link
In comment 15463873 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15463457 Anakim said:


Quote:


The options simply aren't there



No. No. No.

Stop 'giving' people years.


Jones just simply is going to play out his rookie contract. We should bring in competition...we can't use early draft picks to do it. Bringing in another rookie, no matter how talented is going to ruin them. We might have the worst OLine/running game in the NFL
Draft a QB in RD 2 - one or more of the guys will be there  
PatersonPlank : 11/23/2021 10:29 am : link
Pickett/Howell/Wills/Corral will be there. My preference is Pickett though. Let Jones, still on a cheap deal, battle it out with him, or trade Jones (but I don't think you can get anything). Use the 2 #1's on OL/OL or OL/DL.

Sort of the Hurts Eagles model.
RE: Corral  
Ned In Atlanta : 11/23/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15463488 ajr2456 said:
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Or bring in a journeyman to fight it out with Jones and wait for 2023. Jones shouldn’t just be handed the job next year.



This. If they don’t like any of the qbs in the draft bring in someone like Tyrod Taylor and have an actual qb competition.
RE: RE: I'd give DJ one more year  
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15463711 MeanBunny said:
Quote:
We aren't ready for a new QB-or we get into the Jets cycle where they are ruined in 2 games. Alex Smith was ruined for years after the first 2 coaches with Niners. Just get some junker journeyman. Dump Gettleman, find somebody who can suss out decent talent. Its going to take 5 years or more. We blew it in the offseason. Why did why blow so much on Golliday as well? We don't even use the guy


Alex Smith was ruined? He was good in KC. Not top 10 but good enough.

QBs getting “ruined” is a coping mechanism. They were just bad.
Giants blew it  
jestersdead : 11/23/2021 10:30 am : link
when they passed on Herbert and took Thomas. Jones was coming off a good rookie season and could they could have gotten a nice return in a trade.

I don't know how you could be in love with Herbert after his junior year and then pass on him the following draft
RE: Giants blew it  
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 10:32 am : link
In comment 15463893 jestersdead said:
Quote:
when they passed on Herbert and took Thomas. Jones was coming off a good rookie season and could they could have gotten a nice return in a trade.

I don't know how you could be in love with Herbert after his junior year and then pass on him the following draft


I don’t really fault the Giants, that’s a tough move to make and it’s not like Jones looked like Rosen year one, but teams shouldn’t be scared to make that type of move.
RE: RE: Giants blew it  
Producer : 11/23/2021 10:34 am : link
In comment 15463898 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463893 jestersdead said:


Quote:


when they passed on Herbert and took Thomas. Jones was coming off a good rookie season and could they could have gotten a nice return in a trade.

I don't know how you could be in love with Herbert after his junior year and then pass on him the following draft



I don’t really fault the Giants, that’s a tough move to make and it’s not like Jones looked like Rosen year one, but teams shouldn’t be scared to make that type of move.


well, it's the kind of thing great organizations do. Bad organizations don't respect and don't understand probabilities, and do the things the Giants do.
Jones is a lost cause  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 10:34 am : link
Trade him for whatever you can get. It's better to start next year with a UDFA in the long shot that you hit with him.

We know Jones isn't it. Continuing with him is unacceptable.
1st round pick #1 - Best OL on the board  
rnargi : 11/23/2021 11:02 am : link
1st round pick #2 - Best DE on the board
2nd round pick - Best OL on the board

After that, all OL, DL, and LB.
The goal...  
bw in dc : 11/23/2021 11:11 am : link
should be to trade Jones and Barkley once the season officially ends.

Finding RBs is not hard. So there should be an assortment of options.

Replacing Jones depends on who is going to be available among current NFL starters, who gets released or who might be available via trade, and the options available in the draft. But there is time to be thoughtful about that and let the market play out.

But this isn't like we're replacing Joe Montana or Brett Favre. Jones is a bottom 1/3 QB in the league right now. He is a very nice guy - fits the NYG brand nicely - but he seems to have the worst QB chromosomes - can't make good decisions and he can't score points. So get over any sentimentality and look forward a new solution. Getting rid of Jones is a very good idea.
RE: 1st round pick #1 - Best OL on the board  
Sean : 11/23/2021 11:13 am : link
In comment 15464020 rnargi said:
Quote:
1st round pick #2 - Best DE on the board
2nd round pick - Best OL on the board

After that, all OL, DL, and LB.

Don’t reach for need. That’s how the Giants are in this mess.
RE: Draft a QB in RD 2 - one or more of the guys will be there  
Producer : 11/23/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15463888 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Pickett/Howell/Wills/Corral will be there. My preference is Pickett though. Let Jones, still on a cheap deal, battle it out with him, or trade Jones (but I don't think you can get anything). Use the 2 #1's on OL/OL or OL/DL.

Sort of the Hurts Eagles model.


My thought as well
The big risk here is that the incompetent Giants org  
cosmicj : 11/23/2021 11:15 am : link
Stumbles into giving Jones a big contract. That’s entirely possible given the ineptitude the franchise is showing, and obviously needs to be avoided. So I want the Giants to deal Jones for a pick in a strong draft and go with Glennon or someone else next year. I don’t care who as long as they devote modest cap resources to that player.

Posted this before. It’s more important to avoid the franchise destroying mistake than to have a marginally better QB in 2022, which is a lost season anyway.
RE: The big risk here is that the incompetent Giants org  
UConn4523 : 11/23/2021 11:17 am : link
In comment 15464070 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Stumbles into giving Jones a big contract. That’s entirely possible given the ineptitude the franchise is showing, and obviously needs to be avoided. So I want the Giants to deal Jones for a pick in a strong draft and go with Glennon or someone else next year. I don’t care who as long as they devote modest cap resources to that player.

Posted this before. It’s more important to avoid the franchise destroying mistake than to have a marginally better QB in 2022, which is a lost season anyway.


This doesn't make any sense. What big contract? Why do people keep saying it? They may not even pick up his option and we are talking about a huge 2nd contract?
Jones sucks  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/23/2021 11:20 am : link
And is not the long term answer, but QB is successful when 4 out of 5 offensive linemen are terrible. Also I’m not sold on any of the QBs in this draft.

If I’m the GM, I building both my lines through the draft. Get the best tackle and EDGE prospects in the first, and use your other draft picks for pieces along the O-Line and D-Line.

Decline Jones’ 5th year option and bring in a capable starter to compete with Jones, a Tyrod Taylor type. Someone that will push Jones.
UConn  
cosmicj : 11/23/2021 11:31 am : link
What are you talking about? Is there a risk that the Giants eventually give Jones a big extension? The answer is yes. The priority is that this option needs to be completely shut down.
RE: UConn  
UConn4523 : 11/23/2021 11:34 am : link
In comment 15464127 cosmicj said:
Quote:
What are you talking about? Is there a risk that the Giants eventually give Jones a big extension? The answer is yes. The priority is that this option needs to be completely shut down.


No, there isn't. He hasn't earned a big extension and despite what everyone thinks of the Giants they aren't going to just hand out a QB contract like that. It won't even be Gettelmans call anyway, he will be gone.

There's effectively a 0% chance he gets a big extension unless he somehow elevates his games and we go undefeated the rest of the season. So there's your risk, which is close to 0%.
Have you been paying attention to the Giants  
cosmicj : 11/23/2021 11:36 am : link
Decisionmaking recently? I’m afraid the risk of a long term contract is decidedly higher than zero. I do agree that the risk is trending down, but it’s still there.
I understand the "worry" to an extent  
UConn4523 : 11/23/2021 11:40 am : link
but I don't think its warranted. New GM, which is 100% happening as well if we don't win out, isn't giving Jones a big extension.

Can you name an QB in the league that get a big extension after back to back seasons of TD's in the teens? It isn't happening.
I don't think the Giants extend him  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 12:04 pm : link
But never underestimate how stupid they can be. This is the same organization that hired Gettleman, drafted a RB #2, drafted Jones #6, negotiated against themselves for numerous free agents, and on and on...

If Jones plays a couple solid games down the stretch he could easily get his option picked up by these fools.
his option, sure  
UConn4523 : 11/23/2021 12:06 pm : link
but not an extension.
Who is giving up assets for Daniel Jones?  
widmerseyebrow : 11/23/2021 12:10 pm : link
We either draft a guy if he's rated highly, or we sign some stop gap veteran for a year. The latter is unpopular because people would rather have unrealistic hopes than cede a year rebuilding other positions.

Drafting a name simply because we need a quarterback now would be repeating the Daniel Jones mistake. I'm bracing for that reality.
I had thought of keeping Jones  
Blue92 : 11/23/2021 12:14 pm : link
as a placeholder QB as 2022 is pretty much going to be a housecleaning year anyway.

On the other hand, the relationship is probably so damaged by now that both parties should just move on. Also, we will have (at least in theory) a talent infusion from the draft. If we have any high picks on offense, we should have a proven vet at QB to help them along.

Someone jokingly mentioned Andy Dalton but that is a very viable option if he becomes available.
RE: I had thought of keeping Jones  
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15464250 Blue92 said:
Quote:
as a placeholder QB as 2022 is pretty much going to be a housecleaning year anyway.

On the other hand, the relationship is probably so damaged by now that both parties should just move on. Also, we will have (at least in theory) a talent infusion from the draft. If we have any high picks on offense, we should have a proven vet at QB to help them along.

Someone jokingly mentioned Andy Dalton but that is a very viable option if he becomes available.


I don’t think this can be overlooked. If the oline is improved Toney’s development would probably benefit from a vet over Jones.
RE: RE: I'd give DJ one more year  
BillKo : 11/23/2021 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15463465 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15463457 Anakim said:


Quote:


The options simply aren't there



This.


But with competition.

He really can't be handed the job as he was 2020 and 2021.
RE: We’d be a playoff team with Wilson  
FStubbs : 11/23/2021 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15463562 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Have you seen some of the Olines he’s played with? Not much of a downgrade here


With prime Wilson, sure. Not 2021+ Russell Wilson.
Someone elusive  
Thegratefulhead : 11/23/2021 12:25 pm : link
That can create on their own.
Daniel Jones  
JFIB : 11/23/2021 2:27 pm : link
Hardly seems tradeable at this point. Personally, I'm losing faith that he is the long term answer. I would lean toward trading back a little in the 22' draft to acquire capital to move up in the 23 draft for our next QB. I'd still draft OL, ER LB in 22' but getting a few extra number 1's for 23' could put us in position to get someone really good in a much better year for QB's.
Jones is absolutely tradeable  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 3:25 pm : link
We could move him for a 3rd or 4th rounder, easily.

We should be in this mindset with ALL of the players: trade them for whatever you can get. There are two things to focus on:

1. Accumulate future draft picks
2. Accelerate cap hits whenever possible

This should be a brand new roster by kickoff of the 2025 season at the latest.
The Giants ask should be the Darnold trade  
cosmicj : 11/23/2021 3:32 pm : link
Jones is a better player than Darnold and is owed a lot less money. So he needs to be traded before the deadline for exercising the option.
RE: Jones is absolutely tradeable  
GF1080 : 11/23/2021 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15464967 Go Terps said:
Quote:
We could move him for a 3rd or 4th rounder, easily.

We should be in this mindset with ALL of the players: trade them for whatever you can get. There are two things to focus on:

1. Accumulate future draft picks
2. Accelerate cap hits whenever possible

This should be a brand new roster by kickoff of the 2025 season at the latest.


I agree with everything you've said for years but how does Jones get a 3rd or 4th easy so close to his 5th year? He stinks and other teams know it.
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