Giants record without Barkley playing: 9-12 (.429)
That's enough of a sample size to say that It's a fact that Barkley does not help the team win.
Even recent overdrafted 1st round RBs like Fournette and Gurley helped their teams to at least one winning season.
My fear is that the Maras will misread the room (again) and think that Giants fans love him and want him on a second contract.
I've seen enough of him. If we the fans are lucky enough to have a new, non figurehead GM for next year I hope they trade him.
/rant
The problems are deeper than one player.
Gettleman's legacy was always going to be Barkley and Jones, and right now, both look like terrible decisions.
are they in any position to actually offer Saquon a second contract?
Tony Mandarich level
Don't get me wrong, they didn't always do their part but in a different timeline the odell/saquon pair could have been legendary Giants.
A frightening thought. Get him out of the building - no "advisory" roles or anything. He cannot have a voice in anything related to those two players in particular. Frankly the three of them should exit the building together in a few weeks.
Who needs a Hall of Fame G when your OLine sucks right?
Its truly unbelievable.
I would not call Reggie Bush a bust. He had 58 TDs and over 10k total yards jn his career. Was he worth #2 overall? No, but that draft aaa dogshit for the most part anyway
The problems are deeper than one player.
Gettleman's legacy was always going to be Barkley and Jones, and right now, both look like terrible decisions.
True it's not one player. But the team is markedly worse when Barkley does play.
My feeling is that the Giants continue to rely on him like it's his rookie year. But since then he's been good for the occasional spectacular run but absolutely destroys multiple drives in between them.
The Giants need to find a sucker team and trade him.
Its to the point the coaches even know they cant run the ball when Barkley plays. However he cant pass block either, and when he catches the ball he cant find the sticks.
A completely useless football player. At least he looks good in shorts.
Definitely one of the biggest disappointments about him. He's really bad at blocking. And he doesn't finish any runs or fight for any extra yards. The talent is there but he simply hasn't produced.
Booker (himself a JAG) has outplayed Barkley by a country mile and deserves to start. At least hes an NFL quality RB.
The problems are deeper than one player.
Gettleman's legacy was always going to be Barkley and Jones, and right now, both look like terrible decisions.
They made the playoffs because of Odell. Odell wasn’t holding them back from winning, he at least made plays.
I'm not blaming Odell, but even Manning and Odell couldn't make this a good team.
(BTW, Odell shit the bed in the playoff game).
Unlike many, I believe this could be turned around quickly. Maybe not to a championship contender but to a winning team.
Booker (himself a JAG) has outplayed Barkley by a country mile and deserves to start. At least hes an NFL quality RB.
Sad but true.
Barkley looked like a future HOFer his rookie season. Injuries have derailed his career.
I guarantee you that defenses are a lot more nervous when Barkley is on the field than Booker.
I'm not blaming Odell, but even Manning and Odell couldn't make this a good team.
(BTW, Odell shit the bed in the playoff game).
At least they got to the play offs and Odell carried that offense there single handedly.
Stop.
KJC got injured before he could ever get started, and that was in an era were RBs didn't come back from knee injuries.
Bush wasn't anything like what he was supposed to be, but I wouldn't call him a bust - he was a good NFL RB with a valuable role. A lot like Robert Gallery was supposed to be the next Anthony Muñoz, but didn't get there yet was a good OG for a stretch.
Barkley has flashed and has had some success. Reggie Bush might not be the worst comparison in terms of expectations. But Barkley has become a china doll, unfortunately. And that's the risk that you take with RBs. And it's why taking a RB so high in the draft, no matter how talented they are, is problematic.
Nevermind that Barkley stops before the LOS sometimes so that he can start dancing to find a hole; sometimes I wonder if his speed works against him when it comes to the patience required to let a hole develop. Nevermind that his pass blocking has never improved. Nevermind that choosing him should have meant centering an offense around him and that supplementary effort was never truly attempted, let alone accomplished.
Barkley's not a bust, at least not in the way we generally think of it. He's a cautionary tale. And a wasted talent who could have been special, if he hadn't be drafted by a fool who never built the team around him that Barkley would have needed.
If DG had built a roster like the Titans, Saquon could possibly be on the same level as Derrick Henry in terms of impact. But DG reacts. He doesn't operate according to any sort of thought-out plan. And this is the result.
Barkley looked like a future HOFer his rookie season. Injuries have derailed his career.
I guarantee you that defenses are a lot more nervous when Barkley is on the field than Booker.
You're right. Injuries have derailed his career.
In 2018, was there any data available that might have helped an experienced GM know which positions were most likely to suffer injuries?
SB never developed into better player than he was at Penn St. in the NFL. His blocking skills lacked and he continued to struggle between the tackles.
Lastly, the Giants believed, and still believe, that the NFL is a game won by running the ball and stopping the run. This has not been relevant in some time.
I'm not blaming Odell, but even Manning and Odell couldn't make this a good team.
(BTW, Odell shit the bed in the playoff game).
Partly because Manning was washed. Say what you want about Odell not making the team a winner, but the offense was much better with him on the field. He wasn’t a net negative on the field like Barkley is.
However, the problem though is he couldn't get off his spot, at all. He shuffled his feet back and forth in some silly attempt to juke them all, and basically would up diving underneath them for like 1 yard after the catch because by that time they had all arrived.
Catch it and get upfield immediately like Kamara or Zeke would do. I don't think Barkley gets the first down but he would have gotten closer and since it was only 2nd down, it would have made he 3rd down play that much easier.
Just an example...
Booker came in last night and right away was knocking off 10 yd runs
Barkley looks good on paper but he does not run with authority....the Walther Football draft scouting report said Barkley does not like contact
I've noticed he dives for the ground before contact to avoid it. Walther was dead on
The difference in the 2016 team from the others Odell was on was the defense, not Odell. When the defense played better (in 2016), the team won. When the defense played like it did in the other years, the team lost. Odell didn't have any impact on the team from a W-L perspective. At least not to the point that the team became a winner. Amazed at how Giants fans have quickly forgotten just how bad the Giants were just a few years ago too.
His receivers dropped six passes in that game. Odell dropped three, including a TD when the Giants were very much in the game.
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Single handedly wins games like Odell did in 2016 you can make a comparison.
The difference in the 2016 team from the others Odell was on was the defense, not Odell. When the defense played better (in 2016), the team won. When the defense played like it did in the other years, the team lost. Odell didn't have any impact on the team from a W-L perspective. At least not to the point that the team became a winner. Amazed at how Giants fans have quickly forgotten just how bad the Giants were just a few years ago too.
Eric cmon. He single handedly won them the Raven, Cincinnati and Cowboy games. And probably the Philly and Cleveland game too.
His receivers dropped six passes in that game. Odell dropped three, including a TD when the Giants were very much in the game.
What about those times Manning didn’t show up for playoff games? The sample size of one game doesn’t outweigh the entire season. You know better.
hits harder, holds their blocks a bit longer when long pass play is the huddle call
These guys are human
I know if I were a lineman and saw the success Booker was having and effort he was giving- I'd try harder
whos going to kill themselves for a guy who dances about and then does a dive for the ground after a yard or two- answer very few
Hernandez for instance cannot pass block to save his life but he has opened holes for Booker
The Giants are still trying to prove they didnt make a horrific decision in drafting Barkley #2. Newsflash Dave G
You got suckered by a college level RB. He is never going to get fitted for that "Generational Gold Jacket"
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Single handedly wins games like Odell did in 2016 you can make a comparison.
The difference in the 2016 team from the others Odell was on was the defense, not Odell. When the defense played better (in 2016), the team won. When the defense played like it did in the other years, the team lost. Odell didn't have any impact on the team from a W-L perspective. At least not to the point that the team became a winner. Amazed at how Giants fans have quickly forgotten just how bad the Giants were just a few years ago too.
hits harder, holds their blocks a bit longer when long pass play is the huddle call
These guys are human
I know if I were a lineman and saw the success Booker was having and effort he was giving- I'd try harder
whos going to kill themselves for a guy who dances about and then does a dive for the ground after a yard or two- answer very few
Hernandez for instance cannot pass block to save his life but he has opened holes for Booker
The Giants are still trying to prove they didnt make a horrific decision in drafting Barkley #2. Newsflash Dave G
You got suckered by a college level RB. He is never going to get fitted for that "Generational Gold Jacket"
No Booker just takes it. Last night, there was one run (I think there was only six) where the line opened up a nice whole and Barkley basically fell forward for two yards. Any other JAG in the league gets four to five on it. A great running back might have gotten to the second level.
Either way, he's probably here with another chance in 2022 to prove he's still got it. He's only 25 in Febr, so I'm hopeful he will return to form.
Either way, he's probably here with another chance in 2022 to prove he's still got it. He's only 25 in Febr, so I'm hopeful he will return to form.
Even with the injuries he still never showed any improvement in pass blocking, in fact it’s jumps off the screen how bad he is compared to other backs in the league
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In comment 15463899 Les in TO said:
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Single handedly wins games like Odell did in 2016 you can make a comparison.
The difference in the 2016 team from the others Odell was on was the defense, not Odell. When the defense played better (in 2016), the team won. When the defense played like it did in the other years, the team lost. Odell didn't have any impact on the team from a W-L perspective. At least not to the point that the team became a winner. Amazed at how Giants fans have quickly forgotten just how bad the Giants were just a few years ago too.
Disagree. The 2016 D was excellent. Odell also had huge game winning clutch catch and runs against Dallas Miami Baltimore and Cleveland. The defense may have pitched some gems but Odell was the reason they hit some home runs to win those specific games.
That's kinda the point, it took a great D for those plays to matter. Once that D stopped playing at an elite level, it didn't matter - see 2017 and 2018.
He can be explosive once he reaches the 2nd level
We would do ourselves and him a favor to trade him to a team that can figure out how to do that
I'm sure we could get a 5th or 6th rounder for him
maybe not- maybe he has no trade value at all
Im not sure
But Barkley is merely a symptom of the larger problem. DG is the guy who just bought a fixer-upper, but blew his home equity loan on a Lambo rather than a new roof.
I think we see a lot more Daniel Jones in Mayfield if he were a Giant. His 2018 and 2019 seasons happened and on teams with better personnel. 2020 looks to be an outlier.
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easily one of the biggest busts in NFL history. Up there with Ki Jana Carter and Reggie Bush.
I would not call Reggie Bush a bust. He had 58 TDs and over 10k total yards jn his career. Was he worth #2 overall? No, but that draft aaa dogshit for the most part anyway
At the rate Barkley is going he won't get near those numbers. If we call RG3 a bust, we have to call Barkley a bust. Same situation - great stats in his rookie year, terrible afterward.
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To watch Saquon Barkley touch to football anymore. I’ve reached that point. It’s essentially a wasted down now.
He can be explosive once he reaches the 2nd level
We would do ourselves and him a favor to trade him to a team that can figure out how to do that
I'm sure we could get a 5th or 6th rounder for him
maybe not- maybe he has no trade value at all
Im not sure
Because Barkley is not a running back. He's a gadget player.
LOL
I wonder what Ezikiel Elliott thinks of Saquon? Would love to hear his candid opinion
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In comment 15463909 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 15463899 Les in TO said:
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Single handedly wins games like Odell did in 2016 you can make a comparison.
The difference in the 2016 team from the others Odell was on was the defense, not Odell. When the defense played better (in 2016), the team won. When the defense played like it did in the other years, the team lost. Odell didn't have any impact on the team from a W-L perspective. At least not to the point that the team became a winner. Amazed at how Giants fans have quickly forgotten just how bad the Giants were just a few years ago too.
Disagree. The 2016 D was excellent. Odell also had huge game winning clutch catch and runs against Dallas Miami Baltimore and Cleveland. The defense may have pitched some gems but Odell was the reason they hit some home runs to win those specific games.
That's kinda the point, it took a great D for those plays to matter. Once that D stopped playing at an elite level, it didn't matter - see 2017 and 2018.
I kept rewinding that play and watching it because I couldn't believe what I was seeing. He stopped. Stopped cold, right behind the LOS.
He's not the RB we were promised.