to end. Nothing gained with him gone now. Now Judge is coaching for his stay next year. If this team falls apart and we finish 5-12 or 4 - 13, he will probably be gone too.
Is if Gettleman gets fired and his non in house replacement gets a clean slate and 100% autonomy with no stipulations. Mara keeping his hands off everything. But like a gambler down on his luck I fear Mara will double
Down on the Giants way to try and turn things around
RE: Gettleman is already gone- just waiting for season
to end. Nothing gained with him gone now. Now Judge is coaching for his stay next year. If this team falls apart and we finish 5-12 or 4 - 13, he will probably be gone too.
there is absolutely something to be gained, you can actually start the process of getting your new executive in the building. There is still college scouting to be done left and its going to be one of the most important drafts in giants history with likely two top 10 picks.
Stinks, but Garrett does also, and shit rolls downhill. Who is promoted, Freddie Kitchens, that makes sense, Joe Judges' buddy. So if your a buddy of the head coach then you qualify for a promotion. This organization stinks do bad that it has to be some fun for the Eagle and Cowboy fans. Joe Judge has been an embarrassment. Pathetic.
No. Is FK really going to implement something completely different halfway through a season?
He doesn't have to do anything except change the game plan. The plays work if called at the right time or if he utilizes Golladay at all, Toney over the middle and Barkley at all.
The line is still an issue, but you can call different plays that at least attack the defense.
There is absolutely no sense at all in doing that. He will not be picking in the draft or signing free agents for the rest of the saeason, and then his contract is up
to end. Nothing gained with him gone now. Now Judge is coaching for his stay next year. If this team falls apart and we finish 5-12 or 4 - 13, he will probably be gone too.
there is absolutely something to be gained, you can actually start the process of getting your new executive in the building. There is still college scouting to be done left and its going to be one of the most important drafts in giants history with likely two top 10 picks.
You don't want a GM on board now tainted by wins and or losses before the season ends. Let a new GM come in after the season and decide the fate of the coach.
RE: Hopefully this is the start of the entire cleaning house project
There is absolutely no sense at all in doing that. He will not be picking in the draft or signing free agents for the rest of the saeason, and then his contract is up
Why let him ride off in the sunset? If he’s just a figure head at this point just can him. He deserves the humiliation.
Too bad Garrett, with Judge signing off on strategy and play calling, couldn't make chicken salad out of the Gettleman's Mt Everest sized pile of chicken sh-t.
Couldn't make it in Cleveland when they couldn't win 5 games. This is the same as when we hired Pat Shurmur as head coach. This is nothing but blaming someone else for your shortcomings. Judge us trying to deflect the blame when he is in the fucking room too, ge is head coach, ge could step in during the week when game plans are being put together. How can you have Galloday get 2 targets? Blaming Garrett us Bulkshit. It will make the Giant fans that still want to believe Barkkey and Jones were good picks, it will keep them hanging on, but this stinks and passing blame down is something this organization does real well.
Here is what I suspect really happened in the Dallas game
Garrett-
"Now listen Jerry, here's the deal
I'm going to send him on a naked bootleg Jerry, then send a secret hand signal
You just have 2 goons waiting to clobber him"
this might have been done for the players so they don't quit. There have been reports of a lot of frustration so maybe this just helps in that regard, even if the trajectory of the team is not going to change much by this move.
this is Judge trying to save his job is correct, because if it does all fall apart no one will be safe after the season ends.
In January, DG will be replaced and then we'll see if the front office has learned anything about half-measures and overlapping decisions with leadership hires.
I think the offense will have a significant uptick for about 1-2 games
to end. Nothing gained with him gone now. Now Judge is coaching for his stay next year. If this team falls apart and we finish 5-12 or 4 - 13, he will probably be gone too.
there is absolutely something to be gained, you can actually start the process of getting your new executive in the building. There is still college scouting to be done left and its going to be one of the most important drafts in giants history with likely two top 10 picks.
That is the problem. It has to get so bad that Mara has to take himself and his family members out of football decisions. Cut some bait and pray for some semblance of hope is what Mara wants so the status quo can continue.
this might have been done for the players so they don't quit. There have been reports of a lot of frustration so maybe this just helps in that regard, even if the trajectory of the team is not going to change much by this move.
That’s sort of the way it seemed to me in the press conference.
The way judge answered questions made it look like the #1 priority was not losing the lockeroom
That said, if the Giants had an OC this season who was even one click better, that COULD translate into 3 wins that became losses.
I know. Woulda coulda shoulda. But anyone here who doesn't believe a scheme or approach or even attitude from a coach can and often does make a tangible difference in the end result either hasn't played any team sport, hasn't coached a team sport, or a combo of the two.
I don't expect anyone on the roster to openly shit on Garrett. But it's got to be a relief to some in that clubhouse.
Albert Breer
@AlbertBreer
I'll say this too—the Maras are very close with Jason Garrett. This move couldn't have been easy on them. And so pulling the trigger on it should put everyone else in the Giants building on notice.
Might get the "new coach" bounce for a game, but overall makes no
giving everyone false hope, then fall back down to earth for the remainder of the season.
Not quite seeing it this way. I see no uptick whatsoever. Just a bunch of nincompoops trying to block at the LOS and failing miserably. From here on in.
but thr playcalling can still be better even if the playbook stays the same, maybe we wont get 4 curls at the sticks anymore perhaps no more end arounds at the worst possible times..
Garrett sucked because he had no feel for the game, he had no idea when to call a deep shot, no idea when to call a screen...
If Kitchens changes anything hopefully its feel for the game
him the best, but he was pretty bad. We haven't scored 30 points in I think 27 consecutive games. Last night we really only scored three. Mike Evans scored the other seven.
Agree that Judge is coaching for his job, and that he might well be gone with a total collapse, which could easily happen. The team is in near total disarray.
Albert Breer
@AlbertBreer
I'll say this too—the Maras are very close with Jason Garrett. This move couldn't have been easy on them. And so pulling the trigger on it should put everyone else in the Giants building on notice.
Too bad Garrett, with Judge signing off on strategy and play calling, couldn't make chicken salad out of the Gettleman's Mt Everest sized pile of chicken sh-t.
Embarrassing day.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
RE: RE: Didn't Kitchens have to call plays this year...
last season garrett had covid and kitchens called the plays i believe for the browns game, with colt mccoy at QB.
It was the W against the Seahawks. There was some debate over if the Offense looked better because JG was missing or because DJ was missing
The cynic in me is worried about 2 things:
1.) Dead Cat Bounce. They'll play better for a couple games and then crater again
2.) This decision was made now only to appease fans ahead of Mara making an appearance during the Strahan ceremony.
others have noted, this is the first of many necessary changes. The most important is who becomes the new GM. Promoting from within simply guarantees that this horror will continue.
last season garrett had covid and kitchens called the plays i believe for the browns game, with colt mccoy at QB.
It was the W against the Seahawks. There was some debate over if the Offense looked better because JG was missing or because DJ was missing
The cynic in me is worried about 2 things:
1.) Dead Cat Bounce. They'll play better for a couple games and then crater again
2.) This decision was made now only to appease fans ahead of Mara making an appearance during the Strahan ceremony.
The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
Garrett will be gracious, and I think ultimately he'll be grateful
for having been given the job. But I'm guessing on the inside he'll be thinking of something to do with "chicken salad out of...." or Bill Parcells' insistence on "buying the groceries" if he's going to be doing the cooking. With our O-line a perpetual shambles, Garrett didn't have a lot to work with.
Did he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved was Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Did Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
Jason Garrett sucks. It amazes me that Giants fans would adopt a loser cowboys HC and make excuses forna guy who was fired from Dallas for being mediocre.
We hired a young HC. He has been a mixed bag, with a promising first year and a pretty poor sophomore campaign. He certainly has some major weaknesses that he needs to resolve. You don't hire someone with little experience and jettison them after a year and a half. I don't think Judge goes anywhere unless the remainder of the season turns into a complete nightmare.
The offensive game planning, not just play calling, has been terrible all year long. Not just spotty, terrible. And it's hard to believe that head coach Joe Judge didn't have anything to do with it. I mean, they played the same way all last year and this year for 10 games. Extremely conservative for 26 games. So unless the play calling comes with a completely new philosophy, it's hard to believe that this will result in a new outcome.
Furthermore, if this DOES become a turning point, then what the fucking hell was Judge waiting for? If firing Garrett works then why did it take so fucking long to realize it? Why did we get through an offseason with the guy? What happened to self scouting on the bye week?
Either way, JG deserves to go but this feels like just the first domino falling in trying to fix this utter shit show. I like Graham, but other than bringing him on board, Judge hasn't shown me a fucking thing so far. There's no brownie points for him today from this move, either.
undertalented team, lot of injuries and he was only hired 2 seasons ago.
The problem is Judge is exhibiting a lot of poor game management skills, and his gameplans are brutal. Those two things contributed heavily to the leaders recognizing Shurmur needed to go ...
Jason Garrett sucks. It amazes me that Giants fans would adopt a loser cowboys HC and make excuses forna guy who was fired from Dallas for being mediocre.
Now let Judge help put his own offensive guys in place to implement the kind of ball that fits his vision.
Get a GM that fits Judge's vision to work at the hip together. Restart the clock on Judge. Give them carte blanche on the QB and other roster decisions.
Give them a couple years and evaluate them all as a package deal....If it doesn't work then the answer is clear. No more overlapping bullshit.
Couldn't make it in Cleveland when they couldn't win 5 games. This is the same as when we hired Pat Shurmur as head coach. This is nothing but blaming someone else for your shortcomings. Judge us trying to deflect the blame when he is in the fucking room too, ge is head coach, ge could step in during the week when game plans are being put together. How can you have Galloday get 2 targets? Blaming Garrett us Bulkshit. It will make the Giant fans that still want to believe Barkkey and Jones were good picks, it will keep them hanging on, but this stinks and passing blame down is something this organization does real well.
Kitchens was trying to make a young Baker Mayfield and a young Browns team into a vertical passing team. That’s not what they were (as we see now). I think the way Kitchens calls plays better matches up with Daniel Jones than he did with Baker.
undertalented team, lot of injuries and he was only hired 2 seasons ago.
The problem is Judge is exhibiting a lot of poor game management skills, and his gameplans are brutal. Those two things contributed heavily to the leaders recognizing Shurmur needed to go ...
Agreed. Judge increasingly looks like he is in over his head. His TO management is horrendous, as is his refusal to ever go for it on fourth down from midfield.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Didn't Kitchens have to call plays this year...
Not quite seeing it this way. I see no uptick whatsoever. Just a bunch of nincompoops trying to block at the LOS and failing miserably. From here on in.
Relatively speaking. I don't expect a top 10 offense or anything, but I think even a guy like Kitchens can manufacture some points by just being an unknown with nothing to lose. Kitchens will have a game with some new wrinkles, score more points than we have been (not saying much), and people will come out of the woodwork saying our solid team was just being held back by Garrett.
My guess: we'll probably force the ball to an underachieving Golladay deep and/or throw the ball to Toney a underneath on screens and watch him run 20 yards to gain 3 a bunch of times.
but not the most significant piece. This roster is a disaster that simply isn't built to succeed in the NFL.
They have invested their resources from the outside in, and in many cases the investments (draft picks and FAs) were poorly spent. It's a passing league and we can't protect our passer or pressure the opponent's. The team was built to run the ball and can't do it. The QB is a complementary piece who can't simply line up and beat a defense.
It is hard to escape the idea that the people who bring the Giants back to respectability (players, coaches and front office) just aren't here yet.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
Pot meet Kettle. The fact is people like you want to scapegoat Garret for the fact that Jones is totally bad QB and Gettle is totally bad at his job.
Garrett didn't miss a wide open Golladay over the middle and instead did a high school QB one read and threw the ball 10 feet over someone 's head ; which is essetially a throw away.
Garrett didn't throw a pass right to Bucs DE when it was still a winnable game.
Garrett didn't throw a pass that hit Rudolph in the back and right into a Bucs safeties hands essentially ending the game.
The Tenesse Titans don't give a shit about offensive scheming.
Mcaddoo when this team went to the playoffs looked like an airline lost his playbook and he borrowed a local high schools
When Coach Parcells was here -- he ran every first down like it was clockwork.
this is Judge trying to save his job is correct, because if it does all fall apart no one will be safe after the season ends.
In January, DG will be replaced and then we'll see if the front office has learned anything about half-measures and overlapping decisions with leadership hires.
"....Judge trying to save his job..."
What other options did he have after last night's escapades?
He has to do something to get the team's attention and focus back for the last 7 games, and getting rid of a guy he probably never wanted in the first place was a good start.
Now let Judge help put his own offensive guys in place to implement the kind of ball that fits his vision.
Get a GM that fits Judge's vision to work at the hip together. Restart the clock on Judge. Give them carte blanche on the QB and other roster decisions.
Give them a couple years and evaluate them all as a package deal....If it doesn't work then the answer is clear. No more overlapping bullshit.
And someone sit down with Judge and explain to him what time outs are, how many he gets each game, and how the clock works in football. This far into his second year and he seems to use timeouts based on the output of a random number generator.
Jason Garrett sucks. It amazes me that Giants fans would adopt a loser cowboys HC and make excuses forna guy who was fired from Dallas for being mediocre.
(a) Garrett isn’t the only one (b) if they hung a sign on Garrett that said “scapegoat”, it couldn’t be more transparent (c) Judge’s asshole buddy Kitchens was “Senior Offensive Assistant” but we are to believe he had absolutely nothing to do with the suck offense and everything will be much better now.
The palace intrigues have started as these yoyo’s all scramble to save themselves.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
Pot meet Kettle. The fact is people like you want to scapegoat Garret for the fact that Jones is totally bad QB and Gettle is totally bad at his job.
Garrett didn't miss a wide open Golladay over the middle and instead did a high school QB one read and threw the ball 10 feet over someone 's head ; which is essetially a throw away.
Garrett didn't throw a pass right to Bucs DE when it was still a winnable game.
Garrett didn't throw a pass that hit Rudolph in the back and right into a Bucs safeties hands essentially ending the game.
The Tenesse Titans don't give a shit about offensive scheming.
Mcaddoo when this team went to the playoffs looked like an airline lost his playbook and he borrowed a local high schools
When Coach Parcells was here -- he ran every first down like it was clockwork.
Well, I gues we're about to find out if the scheme and playcalling are a big contributor to the issues or just a small symptom.
I expect Garrett was dumped on Judge. Judge is a technocrat, not a playcaller. I mean there are basics which we all recognize Garrett is not doing, so you know everyone in that locker room knows it as well. They see it in action.Kitchens can take over, and I hope he has a scheme in his back pocket. Kitchens probably was tipped off months ago to take over
RE: RE: RE: I think the offense will have a significant uptick for about 1-2 games
Not quite seeing it this way. I see no uptick whatsoever. Just a bunch of nincompoops trying to block at the LOS and failing miserably. From here on in.
Relatively speaking. I don't expect a top 10 offense or anything, but I think even a guy like Kitchens can manufacture some points by just being an unknown with nothing to lose. Kitchens will have a game with some new wrinkles, score more points than we have been (not saying much), and people will come out of the woodwork saying our solid team was just being held back by Garrett.
My guess: we'll probably force the ball to an underachieving Golladay deep and/or throw the ball to Toney a underneath on screens and watch him run 20 yards to gain 3 a bunch of times.
So tell me how Garrett was going to fix things if we kept him??
but not the most significant piece. This roster is a disaster that simply isn't built to succeed in the NFL.
They have invested their resources from the outside in, and in many cases the investments (draft picks and FAs) were poorly spent. It's a passing league and we can't protect our passer or pressure the opponent's. The team was built to run the ball and can't do it. The QB is a complementary piece who can't simply line up and beat a defense.
It is hard to escape the idea that the people who bring the Giants back to respectability (players, coaches and front office) just aren't here yet.
Garrett is a schmuck, with this Fight tee shirt, throwing the players under the bus to the press earlier in the week, not to mention his antics in Dallas angling for Phillips job.
Do I think he’s wrong? Nope. But he’s an incredibly unlikable guy.
RE: RE: Didn't Kitchens have to call plays this year...
tell at the PC last night JJ was not happy. He kept saying they need to put their players in the spots to succeed in a way that suggested he didn’t think they did.
Come off a bye week with that bollocks. What’s they work on, the pass to AT?
Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
complaining that Garrett was not the only problem, it's Judge, the O-line etc. Of course it is. Lots of things need to be fixed. Mara should be exploring GM candidates now. When the Giants are done playing for the year, he can give DG the news and start interviewing. Let the new GM decide what he thinks of Judge and Jones. Draft O-line and edge high in the draft. Doesn't sound too complicated.
Not sure how much impact it will have at this point but SOMETHING had to be done. Even if you're working within Garrett's system, you need a fresh set of eyes on this offense. It is broken.
Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
Are you expecting any other changes before the end of the season?
1. He never should have been hired in the first place. IMO, he was forced upon Judge to be a mentor and to "help" him. Once again, meddling by upper management
2. He should have been fired after last season.
3. He did nothing to help this QB apparently based upon the results and performance.
4. Firing Garrett is at this point nothing more than offering the fans something to believe in since the season is already lost. The reality is it makes no difference whether he was fired today or right after the season.
I expect Garrett was dumped on Judge. Judge is a technocrat, not a playcaller. I mean there are basics which we all recognize Garrett is not doing, so you know everyone in that locker room knows it as well. They see it in action.Kitchens can take over, and I hope he has a scheme in his back pocket. Kitchens probably was tipped off months ago to take over
I'd say based on Garrett's interview last week where he said the OL wasn't fixed, there were clearly politics going on behind the scenes, which is usually the case when shit is going down, the finger pointing starts. The blame game was starting between the front office and coaches. That the Giants tweet a picture of Price giving up only 1 sack the next day, to me, tells the story.
In front of a national audience, you couldn't even have Eli help out last night to the point he was questioning plays along with Peyton.
Garrett has been around the NFL for 25 years as a player & coach, and out in Dallas for as long as he was, he knows what was up. He got his salvo out there knowing any slip up and he was gone. Well, it happened yesterday in the Giants last prime time game.
I do find it interesting that Kitchens will be coming in going up against a relatively easier schedule compared to before, with his (supposedly) healthy players coming back. Kitchens will be given his chance. Either way, Judge just used his lifeline to keep himself going here. If things fall apart the rest of the way, that will have huge ramifications for Gettleman/Abrams, Judge and Jones. This whole thing can come crumbling down real fast, or show enough to lead into 2022.
We just see the on field results. We have no idea what is going on in the building. Go back to the preseason. Remember the AT article and how people inside the building were concerned that they were not getting what they thought they were. That was leaked for a reason.
I think all is well and good in the building and the factions are digging in assigning blame.
that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
Someone from the outside with modern ideas not named Mara needs to come in with complete control over football operations and clean house including Gettleman, Abrams and anyone else from the past. Enough half measures and stop putting a band-aid on an open knife wound. Take your damn medicine as I am totally sick of this shit
When the rumors surfaced about Garrett becoming the
Giants’ OC, I was incredulous that Garrett would even consider taking it. For his career’s sake, he should have sat it out and at worst would have been a leading candidate for the Sooners or A&M head coaching jobs when they came open. He could have waltzed in to one of those positions and earned $10mm a year and 8-10 wins for the rest of his career. That’s the worst case. Being the Cowboys HC for a decade has immense cachet, esp in the south. Now he has a big blemish on his resume.
So I was wrong about Garrett taking the Giants job but believe I was absolutely correct about whether he should have. Anyway, best of luck to him. He earned over $50mm just during his Cowboys HC gig so I’m sure he’ll be fine.
that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
thats not what i said..
I said is it possible him and garrett discussed the gameplan during the week, come up with the gameplan and Garretts playcalling doesnt reflect what they discussed?
I hope the clock doesn't restart on any of the other parties
Meaning don't keep DG and Judge and Jones simply because they win 3-4 games the rest of the year.. let's keep evaluating them based on season as a whole.
complaining that Garrett was not the only problem, it's Judge, the O-line etc. Of course it is. Lots of things need to be fixed. Mara should be exploring GM candidates now. When the Giants are done playing for the year, he can give DG the news and start interviewing. Let the new GM decide what he thinks of Judge and Jones. Draft O-line and edge high in the draft. Doesn't sound too complicated.
EXactly, For once build the damn foundation of a team: Offense and Defense lines, then grab the skill players
Too bad Garrett, with Judge signing off on strategy and play calling, couldn't make chicken salad out of the Gettleman's Mt Everest sized pile of chicken sh-t.
Embarrassing day.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
I've said all along I am neutral on Garrett. I was convinced from the minute he was hired it was to be Judge's training wheels to handle the head coach responsibilities. So I didn't have great expectations for him as the OC.
But he's been dealt a horrible hand by dealer Gettleman. And expecting him to build an offense around around a poor QB and a junior college OL is pretty laughable.
Maybe I'm wrong and Kitchens will have the magic potion to make chicken salad. I doubt it, but now he's on the clock...
Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
Yep and Graham better pay attention.
RE: Jerrah is going to invite him home to Dallas with a job of some sort
complaining that Garrett was not the only problem, it's Judge, the O-line etc. Of course it is. Lots of things need to be fixed. Mara should be exploring GM candidates now. When the Giants are done playing for the year, he can give DG the news and start interviewing. Let the new GM decide what he thinks of Judge and Jones. Draft O-line and edge high in the draft. Doesn't sound too complicated.
EXactly, For once build the damn foundation of a team: Offense and Defense lines, then grab the skill players
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
You can’t possibly think this was funny or worth typing out.
There is no way in hell that Mara will fire his 3rd coach in 6 years..No Way.
DG on the other hand is gone at the end of the season and it is paramount that the Maras go outside their comfort zone and don't promote from within
I agree that I think Mara will show great patience in keeping Judge short of a total end of year collapse with divisional blowouts.
The issue with the "outside" GM thinking is what really changes? Judge is still here. What happens if they disagree on the roster or roster construction? It is a messy situation that unfortunately may need to get more messy before the house cleaning occurs. Judge needs to show something if he is going to be paired with a GM imo.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
Tried the corner and missed- ball 4, ball 8, ball 12- how can guys lay pitches so close..
Fail!
The offense quit last night. Perhaps D’ too. But Garrett is ‘goat’
for Jones poor year and general crappy offense. I don’t pretend to know how players will react and how much the offense will change. #26 will still tippy toe in the backfield, Jones will still stare down his first receiver, and Engram will still drop balls, and Golliday will be an arrogant underachiever.
None of this spells out a change to winning football. Hard to know what the Giants need except the obvious interior offensive lineman.There have been personality clashes amongst the o coaching staff for two years with no real resolution or improvement. Garrett was middle management who usually take the heat but changes there rarely result in long term improvement.
I said it before, “I’ll not live to see a Giant team with a winning record”. Doesn’t mean I know how to fix it but I wish someone could.
Openly questioned play calling on air. I would speculate Eli knew Garret would be getting fired if the offense did not show up last night. I would not be surprised he told the owners the play calling sucks.
Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
Are you expecting any other changes before the end of the season?
No, I think this was probably the one bullet they had in the chamber. There's no reinforcements coming, the young bucks on the roster need to give it all they've got. Kitchens needs to open it up and get them playing more and thinking less.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
This is uncomfortably cringy
I'm in the what could it hurt camp. We've been terrible on offense
under his coaching, and you can't fire the players (yet, anyway). When your LT has more touchdown catches than your top free agent acquisition and your number 1 pick then you get to be home for the holidays.
I will note that Kitchens was calling the plays for the 20-6 slopfest against the Browns last year when we went with Colt. Maybe he's learned some lessons, maybe he hasn't. If he can make chicken salad out this more power to him.
has its tendrils in all of the decisions this team has made recently. Garrett was kept because of Jones. For all of the reasons we discussed here ad nauseum. That offense really was TERRIBLE.
that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
thats not what i said..
I said is it possible him and garrett discussed the gameplan during the week, come up with the gameplan and Garretts playcalling doesnt reflect what they discussed?
Judge is standing next to him on the sidelines during the game. If Judge is not seeing what he expected to see then he needs to be talking to him.
I don't think it is likely Judge was clear about what he wanted and then Garrett simply went out and did something else.
with 50% pressure rates...not a chance. This is just judge trying to save his ass.
Absolutely. But isn't Judge the Head Coach? Doesn't he have veto power over offensive game plans? He is just as responsible, especially with his ultra-conservative, play not to lose team direction.
Garrett was a bad OC, but who can possibly make that offense work with Gettleman's offensive line? Solder? Hernandez? Neither of them could even get on another team's roster.
What does relieved of his duties as OC mean? Was he fired, as in no longer employed by the Giants? Or, did he simply have playcalling duties taken away/demoted?
Anyone would expect Kitchens to somehow improve this offense. He has only served as an Offensive Playcaller twice in the NFL. For 8 games in Cleveland in 2018 when he went 5-3 after a 2-5-1 start as a offensive Assistant. His other experience was last year during the Browns game when Garrett went down with Covid and the Giants under his playing only scored 6 points. Not much to get optimistic about really.
The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
He won the game in a big upset where he hadn't played in a long time; admitted to hyper ventilating while in the huddle ; and threw some clutch passes down the stretch to extend drives and win the game. He did well all things considered. He didn't throw for 400 yards and have 4 TDs while doing it is the problem now?
Anyone would expect Kitchens to somehow improve this offense. He has only served as an Offensive Playcaller twice in the NFL. For 8 games in Cleveland in 2018 when he went 5-3 after a 2-5-1 start as a offensive Assistant. His other experience was last year during the Browns game when Garrett went down with Covid and the Giants under his playing only scored 6 points. Not much to get optimistic about really.
Considering that the Giants are bottom 5 in most offensive categories, it would be more difficult to do worse.
And the offense was more efficient, more yards and overall attacked downfield more when Kitchens was OC for one game last year than when McCoy started with Garrett.
The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
He won the game in a big upset where he hadn't played in a long time; admitted to hyper ventilating while in the huddle ; and threw some clutch passes down the stretch to extend drives and win the game. He did well all things considered. He didn't throw for 400 yards and have 4 TDs while doing it is the problem now?
You said it. He passed for 328 and 2 TDs this year on the Cards against Seattle
Last year with us his stats were garbage. Yeah he had a couple nice passes but barely had 100 yards. You're saying scheme has nothing to do with it?
Enduring the pain of losing more sucks, but it's coming either with this regime or the beginning of the next. This one has earned a vote of no confidence from me. Next!
stop acting like we know everything on here. We have no idea what conversations meetings led up to this, maybe there was a lockerroom burst.
Fuck.... you guys get a random thought in your head and just run with it
"must be true because I thought of it"
Im sure this is not news, but if you are looking for rational thought, BBI the day after a Giants loss AND the firing of an OC is not the place to look....I mean not by a LONG shot:).
Anyone would expect Kitchens to somehow improve this offense. He has only served as an Offensive Playcaller twice in the NFL. For 8 games in Cleveland in 2018 when he went 5-3 after a 2-5-1 start as a offensive Assistant. His other experience was last year during the Browns game when Garrett went down with Covid and the Giants under his playing only scored 6 points. Not much to get optimistic about really.
Because Baker Mayfield’s numbers drastically improved in a similar situation after Kitchens took over the play calling mid season. That’s how he got the head coaching job in the first place. Doesn’t guarantee it will happen here, but there is a history.
RE: If the answer is somewhere in here, I apologize
What does relieved of his duties as OC mean? Was he fired, as in no longer employed by the Giants? Or, did he simply have playcalling duties taken away/demoted?
He's still under contract, and collecting a check with John Mara's signature on it, but he'll be doing so from home.
He could technically be reassigned, but that rarely happens
it's not Gettleman anymore, IMO. Last offseason, the Giants very clearly trotted out Abrams & Petit in the offseason interviews during free agency and the draft. It was made very clear that Abrams was part of the interview process that selected Judge.
Gettleman is 70 and I believe I heard on Papa's podcast that he's in the last year of his contract. There is no way on God's green Earth that he will be coming back. In some ways, similar to Garrett, Gettleman is the free pound of flesh to throw to the fans for Mara.
But, the real question here, what about Abrams? If there is to be real change in this org, you need to send him packing and have Chris Mara exit his position. Otherwise, it's a shell game.
Gettleman isn't the guy you should be worrying about if it's change you want.
that Gettleman is gone. But if Mara thinks promoting from within is going to satisfy the "pound of flesh" the fans want, he is clueless. He has to know that the pressure will not be to promote from within.
If Gettleman retires and Abrams becomes the GM, Mara has to know that the view from fans and the media will be "Giants content to stand pat in the offseason."
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Didn't Kitchens have to call plays this year...
You said it. He passed for 328 and 2 TDs this year on the Cards against Seattle
Last year with us his stats were garbage. Yeah he had a couple nice passes but barely had 100 yards. You're saying scheme has nothing to do with it?
First of all this is not the same Seattle team. Second of all Gallman had a game of all things and was running well. Thirdly no I don't think scheme has anything to do with it.
I don't think jones is good at all. He played a horrible game. He threw what was one of the worst picks I have ever seen. And he is still doing the same old shit ; locking into receivers ; showing no instinct at all. He actually threw a pass to Rudolph that hit him in the back last night. He was always like this even with Shurmur
that Gettleman is gone. But if Mara thinks promoting from within is going to satisfy the "pound of flesh" the fans want, he is clueless. He has to know that the pressure will not be to promote from within.
If Gettleman retires and Abrams becomes the GM, Mara has to know that the view from fans and the media will be "Giants content to stand pat in the offseason."
He is not that dumb but he will maybe hire a figure head gm who will serve more like a head scout w Mara still making the exec decisions
Trotting Abrams & Petit out there (especially the former)
was really predictable and disappointing. I understand loyalty, continuity of vision etc, but when you're rolling out a team this bad, you must be willing to self-examine everyone and everything and make changes. I've been calling out many of their biggest moves under DG as being mistakes, one after the other, and I'm just an amateur. What the fuck do they need to see before they start trying to get to the bottom of it.
Actually I think the Giants will play well this SUnday. Not because Kitchens is going to be any kind of improvement but, there is something about a coach getting fired and getting blown out that would make the Giants play hard. I don't expect Barkley just to fall down when he gets to the line of scrmmage etc.
Someone will dig in and give us a real answer of whether or not Mara forced Garrett on Judge. Whether he did or not, two things are certain: Mara thought very highly of Garrett and Garrett was a horrible OC.
I’m just hoping this is the wake up call to John Mara that he maybe needs to re-evaluate whether or not he really knows as much about the modern NFL as he thinks he does. Maybe a guy he was so sure about showing himself as the worst OC in football is the push he needs to hand over decision making to a competent GM or VP Football Operations.
Giant fans are the paying customers who keep showing up, keep buying tickets, keep watching the games and keep talking about them on here 365 days a year even though the product they are providing is the worst in the NFL for the past 5 years.
Giant fans are spending their time and paying their money to be entertained. This isn't a school team with kids trying their best. This is professional football. Where they play for pay. In most cases for millions of dollars of pay and the Giants are every teams homecoming game. But Giant fans keep supporting them just like we did in the 1970s.
Listen to Joe Judge it's not Giant fans job to blindly follow a horrible product or to be patient with it. It's their job to entertain us and when they don't they should be replaced.
You want to talk about embarrassing watch some of the play cutups on twitter today on both sides of the ball from last night.
I just had a conversation with someone who was traveling with his friends family and met an Eagle fan cousin and a Cowboy fan cousin and he said he was a Giant fan. They said sorry bro, we feel for you. These are kids in their early 20's. They were barely teenagers the last time the Giants had a good team. In 2007 they weren't even 10 years old. To their generation the Giants are nothing but losers.
Depends - are they going to bench Hernandez and Solder?
In favor of whom? DG's ragamuffin bunch of slogmollies?
Has any GM ever declared an intention and failed so spectacularly at that goal before? And still have fans defending his "efforts"?
It’s pretty bad. The only lineman that he has drafted that looks like a keeper is Thomas. Jury’s still out on Lemeiux but it’s not like he looked like anything all that great before he got hurt. Gates was a decent undrafted FA find, but he’s probably done now. Hernandez is horrendous, Peart must be really shitty if he can’t beat out Solder, and Solder is one of the worst FA signings ever. And based on what Zietler shared after leaving the team they didn’t even try to extend/restructure him this past offseason. He was arguably their best lineman the last few seasons and is playing well in Baltimore now.
RE: I think the offense will have a significant uptick for about 1-2 games
giving everyone false hope, then fall back down to earth for the remainder of the season.
Several people have noted that Garrett's schemes tended to put all receivers on one side of the field, narrowing the area the defense has to defend. For whatever reason, this seems to be a feature, not a bug. His unwillingness to abandon that concept is arguably a fireable offense by itself.
But the bottom line is: They brought in Golladay, Toney and Randolph, they had Thomas and Barkley back last night, Slayton is playing, Engram is playing, they were coming off a bye week — and they still looked like they'd never seen an NFL defense before. The only TD was on a tackle-eligible trick play to Thomas, set up by an INT that put them near the Bucs' end zone. The actual offense generated 1 FG and 1 missed FG.
The OC is paid to find solutions, and Garrett had none.
Giant fans are the paying customers who keep showing up, keep buying tickets, keep watching the games and keep talking about them on here 365 days a year even though the product they are providing is the worst in the NFL for the past 5 years.
Giant fans are spending their time and paying their money to be entertained. This isn't a school team with kids trying their best. This is professional football. Where they play for pay. In most cases for millions of dollars of pay and the Giants are every teams homecoming game. But Giant fans keep supporting them just like we did in the 1970s.
Listen to Joe Judge it's not Giant fans job to blindly follow a horrible product or to be patient with it. It's their job to entertain us and when they don't they should be replaced.
You want to talk about embarrassing watch some of the play cutups on twitter today on both sides of the ball from last night.
I just had a conversation with someone who was traveling with his friends family and met an Eagle fan cousin and a Cowboy fan cousin and he said he was a Giant fan. They said sorry bro, we feel for you. These are kids in their early 20's. They were barely teenagers the last time the Giants had a good team. In 2007 they weren't even 10 years old. To their generation the Giants are nothing but losers.
What was the Cowboy fan apologizing for. They are off to a good start this year, but the haven’t done shit since the 90’s… likely before that 20-something kid was born.
RE: Judge isn't an offense guy and has never done it
Agreed, it’s not like they are changing the whole playbook this week. It will just be a different order of crappy plays being called.
Last night they took their best players out of the game and ran a 4th and 1 with Collin Johnson and some TE I dont even know while Golladay and Toney sat on the bench.
Simply putting your best players on the field is an improvement.
I expect Garrett was dumped on Judge. Judge is a technocrat, not a playcaller. I mean there are basics which we all recognize Garrett is not doing, so you know everyone in that locker room knows it as well. They see it in action.Kitchens can take over, and I hope he has a scheme in his back pocket. Kitchens probably was tipped off months ago to take over
I'd say based on Garrett's interview last week where he said the OL wasn't fixed, there were clearly politics going on behind the scenes, which is usually the case when shit is going down, the finger pointing starts. The blame game was starting between the front office and coaches. That the Giants tweet a picture of Price giving up only 1 sack the next day, to me, tells the story.
In front of a national audience, you couldn't even have Eli help out last night to the point he was questioning plays along with Peyton.
Garrett has been around the NFL for 25 years as a player & coach, and out in Dallas for as long as he was, he knows what was up. He got his salvo out there knowing any slip up and he was gone. Well, it happened yesterday in the Giants last prime time game.
I do find it interesting that Kitchens will be coming in going up against a relatively easier schedule compared to before, with his (supposedly) healthy players coming back. Kitchens will be given his chance. Either way, Judge just used his lifeline to keep himself going here. If things fall apart the rest of the way, that will have huge ramifications for Gettleman/Abrams, Judge and Jones. This whole thing can come crumbling down real fast, or show enough to lead into 2022.
Bet on "show enough to lead into 2022." at least as far as the owners are concerned. It would be a huge embarrassment to have to shitcan Judge after hiring the guy as HC when he wasn't even on any other team's radar or to throw Jones out the door after spending the 6th pick of the draft on the guy and claiming that they had to do it because there were oh so many other teams waiting to grab this wunderkinder.
It will take very little for Frick and Frack in the owner's booth, and the bleed blue diehard fans to proclaim "improvement."
Anyone would expect Kitchens to somehow improve this offense. He has only served as an Offensive Playcaller twice in the NFL. For 8 games in Cleveland in 2018 when he went 5-3 after a 2-5-1 start as a offensive Assistant. His other experience was last year during the Browns game when Garrett went down with Covid and the Giants under his playing only scored 6 points. Not much to get optimistic about really.
Taking over Garrett's duties for just one game I think is different than being named the offensive coordinator (interim) for the last 7 weeks of this season. When Garrett went down with Covid it was still Garrett's offense and he just had to do his best to mimic what Garrett would've done, which I can imagine is difficult. Now he gets to run the show (not saying they can re-vamp an offense this late in the season but he gets to have more time/lee-way with developing schemes and trying new things).
but firing Garret was the right move as Mara saddled Judge with him to keep control of the team and as the heir apparent if Judge couldn't cut it as as HC.
Wellington knew football, John simply doesn't. I agree with the previous comment turn over control of the team to a true professional.
I've been a fan fof more than 60 years, the team should be managed by someone who knows NFl football.
Larry
Magically now all is well and Judge will learn clock management, how to coach an incompetent OL, how to create a pass rush and to coach DBs and how to make Jones stop birddogging WRs and turn Barkley into a generational talent again.
How does it work when a coach gets fired? Do they have contracts? Will JG be collecting a paycheck for the remainder of a contract? The way we churn through coaches Mara must be on the hook for a lot of extra dough.
How does it work when a coach gets fired? Do they have contracts? Will JG be collecting a paycheck for the remainder of a contract? The way we churn through coaches Mara must be on the hook for a lot of extra dough.
Head coach salaries are generally guaranteed. I do not know about coordinators.
How does it work when a coach gets fired? Do they have contracts? Will JG be collecting a paycheck for the remainder of a contract? The way we churn through coaches Mara must be on the hook for a lot of extra dough.
I hope so. It's a prison of his own making. He can afford it btw.
has had more wins in his best season than Judge will in 2 seasons combined
Yea but we don't know what we have in jones . Our back up has played 1/2 a dozen fewer games on different teams but he is a back up but we don't know what we have in jones who played one good qtr all year.
Couldn't make it in Cleveland when they couldn't win 5 games. This is the same as when we hired Pat Shurmur as head coach. This is nothing but blaming someone else for your shortcomings. Judge us trying to deflect the blame when he is in the fucking room too, ge is head coach, ge could step in during the week when game plans are being put together. How can you have Galloday get 2 targets? Blaming Garrett us Bulkshit. It will make the Giant fans that still want to believe Barkkey and Jones were good picks, it will keep them hanging on, but this stinks and passing blame down is something this organization does real well.
So true. This was about Barkley back who just sucks and jones who sucks. And not Vince Lombardi and Bill Bellichek will change that.
All he has to do is get Golliday and Toney on the field more and it is an improvement.
The absolute lack of use of those 2 is inexcusable - C. Johnson is getting significant snaps in this offense when Toney/Golliday are healthy -
Judge learned under Belichik. In what world would Belichik keep trotting out a guy at RT who shouldn’t be playing at all let alone starting. Peart may not be the answer long term but there is no way in hell Belichik or any competent HC keeps him on the bench when the starter has proven he can’t play
All he has to do is get Golliday and Toney on the field more and it is an improvement.
The absolute lack of use of those 2 is inexcusable - C. Johnson is getting significant snaps in this offense when Toney/Golliday are healthy -
Judge learned under Belichik. In what world would Belichik keep trotting out a guy at RT who shouldn’t be playing at all let alone starting. Peart may not be the answer long term but there is no way in hell Belichik or any competent HC keeps him on the bench when the starter has proven he can’t play
You're out of your freakin minds if you think this isn't anything more than a desperate attempt by the front office.
Maybe Golladay was winded and needed a rest. You are really blaming Garrett for this?
You think now that he is gone or would have been gone earlier this magically becomes a 9-0 team?
I was not crazy about the Garret move but at the samre time the dude had a record of winning. What did Joey time outs ever do? Ask Bill Bellicheck what play he wanted run on special teams? So obvious this guy is a high school cafeteria lunch worker. So lame that Eli got benched. Garrett who was basically set up to fail with this oline and bush league QB and over hyped RB gets canned. But resume Dave is going to ride off in the sunset and Mara is going to present Strahan jersey retirement ceremony. so lame with half this place desperately cheering it on in vain attempt to pretend we don't know what we have in jones.
Maybe Gollday needed a breather. He had a busy day with his 2 catches.
That 4th and 1 was a joke. Best you can do is Collin Johnson and that random TE to try to convert a key 4th down? Hard sell.
Where's Rudolph? Where's Toney? Where's Ross? Where's Engram? For two weeks people have bitched that Jones is missing all his weapons. Then you have them all, and they don't see the field when it matters.
Garrett sucks. So does the front office and maybe the head coach. They can all leave.
NY Daily News - ( New Window )
Twice in one day.
Nope
Depends - are they going to bench Hernandez and Solder?
They all suck.
No. Is FK really going to implement something completely different halfway through a season?
with 50% pressure rates...not a chance. This is just judge trying to save his ass.
What a loser
Down on the Giants way to try and turn things around
there is absolutely something to be gained, you can actually start the process of getting your new executive in the building. There is still college scouting to be done left and its going to be one of the most important drafts in giants history with likely two top 10 picks.
He sucked at his job as much as the players suck at theirs and Gettleman sucks at his. Garrett is just the first one gone.
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now with freddie kitchens calling the plays?
No. Is FK really going to implement something completely different halfway through a season?
it was a sarcastic question.
sometimes firing an OC and replacing him creates a spark, and the team goes on a run. harbaugh has done this a couple times in baltimore.
i am definitely not expecting that to happen here, though.
Sequence of playcalling might be better too.
I think we'll see some improvement.
This puts the spotlight on Judge now. I think most recognize Dave is going to be out at the end of the year. Better win some division games.
So what changes do people think we see with FK?
No. O-Line still sucks.
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now with freddie kitchens calling the plays?
No. Is FK really going to implement something completely different halfway through a season?
He doesn't have to do anything except change the game plan. The plays work if called at the right time or if he utilizes Golladay at all, Toney over the middle and Barkley at all.
The line is still an issue, but you can call different plays that at least attack the defense.
There is absolutely no sense at all in doing that. He will not be picking in the draft or signing free agents for the rest of the saeason, and then his contract is up
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In comment 15464419 japanhead said:
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now with freddie kitchens calling the plays?
No. Is FK really going to implement something completely different halfway through a season?
it was a sarcastic question.
sometimes firing an OC and replacing him creates a spark, and the team goes on a run. harbaugh has done this a couple times in baltimore.
i am definitely not expecting that to happen here, though.
I've seen it happen in hockey, but I can't say I see that happening here
Mara will let DG 'retire' at the end of this season.
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to end. Nothing gained with him gone now. Now Judge is coaching for his stay next year. If this team falls apart and we finish 5-12 or 4 - 13, he will probably be gone too.
there is absolutely something to be gained, you can actually start the process of getting your new executive in the building. There is still college scouting to be done left and its going to be one of the most important drafts in giants history with likely two top 10 picks.
You don't want a GM on board now tainted by wins and or losses before the season ends. Let a new GM come in after the season and decide the fate of the coach.
+1
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Should have been out the door today too
There is absolutely no sense at all in doing that. He will not be picking in the draft or signing free agents for the rest of the saeason, and then his contract is up
Why let him ride off in the sunset? If he’s just a figure head at this point just can him. He deserves the humiliation.
Has showed some good coaching in the past. Game may have passed him by and that OLine would be a challenge for anyone.
Wonder how he would do at the college level.
Last year vs the browns
Too bad Garrett, with Judge signing off on strategy and play calling, couldn't make chicken salad out of the Gettleman's Mt Everest sized pile of chicken sh-t.
Embarrassing day.
they will come into our stadium next week and tear the heart out of this team, assuming there's any heart left. Which there probably isn't.
Now we can finally work over the damn Cowboys
Did Jerry re-hire him as a consultant yet?
Here is what I suspect really happened in the Dallas game
Garrett-
"Now listen Jerry, here's the deal
I'm going to send him on a naked bootleg Jerry, then send a secret hand signal
You just have 2 goons waiting to clobber him"
No more of that nonsense
In January, DG will be replaced and then we'll see if the front office has learned anything about half-measures and overlapping decisions with leadership hires.
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to end. Nothing gained with him gone now. Now Judge is coaching for his stay next year. If this team falls apart and we finish 5-12 or 4 - 13, he will probably be gone too.
there is absolutely something to be gained, you can actually start the process of getting your new executive in the building. There is still college scouting to be done left and its going to be one of the most important drafts in giants history with likely two top 10 picks.
That is the problem. It has to get so bad that Mara has to take himself and his family members out of football decisions. Cut some bait and pray for some semblance of hope is what Mara wants so the status quo can continue.
I wish him well but this was a good move.
last season garrett had covid and kitchens called the plays i believe for the browns game, with colt mccoy at QB.
in the Kitchen?
That’s sort of the way it seemed to me in the press conference.
The way judge answered questions made it look like the #1 priority was not losing the lockeroom
That said, if the Giants had an OC this season who was even one click better, that COULD translate into 3 wins that became losses.
I know. Woulda coulda shoulda. But anyone here who doesn't believe a scheme or approach or even attitude from a coach can and often does make a tangible difference in the end result either hasn't played any team sport, hasn't coached a team sport, or a combo of the two.
I don't expect anyone on the roster to openly shit on Garrett. But it's got to be a relief to some in that clubhouse.
Baker Mayfield calling Kitchens an idiot - ( New Window )
@AlbertBreer
I'll say this too—the Maras are very close with Jason Garrett. This move couldn't have been easy on them. And so pulling the trigger on it should put everyone else in the Giants building on notice.
Not quite seeing it this way. I see no uptick whatsoever. Just a bunch of nincompoops trying to block at the LOS and failing miserably. From here on in.
Link - ( New Window )
Garrett sucked because he had no feel for the game, he had no idea when to call a deep shot, no idea when to call a screen...
If Kitchens changes anything hopefully its feel for the game
Agree that Judge is coaching for his job, and that he might well be gone with a total collapse, which could easily happen. The team is in near total disarray.
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Albert Breer
@AlbertBreer
I'll say this too—the Maras are very close with Jason Garrett. This move couldn't have been easy on them. And so pulling the trigger on it should put everyone else in the Giants building on notice.
Yawn.
Too bad Garrett, with Judge signing off on strategy and play calling, couldn't make chicken salad out of the Gettleman's Mt Everest sized pile of chicken sh-t.
Embarrassing day.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
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...one game? Maybe I'm getting seasons mixed up.
last season garrett had covid and kitchens called the plays i believe for the browns game, with colt mccoy at QB.
It was the W against the Seahawks. There was some debate over if the Offense looked better because JG was missing or because DJ was missing
The cynic in me is worried about 2 things:
1.) Dead Cat Bounce. They'll play better for a couple games and then crater again
2.) This decision was made now only to appease fans ahead of Mara making an appearance during the Strahan ceremony.
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In comment 15464499 BillKo said:
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...one game? Maybe I'm getting seasons mixed up.
last season garrett had covid and kitchens called the plays i believe for the browns game, with colt mccoy at QB.
It was the W against the Seahawks. There was some debate over if the Offense looked better because JG was missing or because DJ was missing
The cynic in me is worried about 2 things:
1.) Dead Cat Bounce. They'll play better for a couple games and then crater again
2.) This decision was made now only to appease fans ahead of Mara making an appearance during the Strahan ceremony.
The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
He was part of the problem, and is a scapegoat. Expect the problems to continue and other goats to be found ...
Did he directly coach the offensive line and instruct such talents as Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
And one more question: How involved was Jason Garrett in showing Saquon how to avoid getting hit when he gets to the LOS and how to pass block in the backfield?
And one last question: Did Jason Garrett demonstrate pass rushing moves to our EDGE players?
We hired a young HC. He has been a mixed bag, with a promising first year and a pretty poor sophomore campaign. He certainly has some major weaknesses that he needs to resolve. You don't hire someone with little experience and jettison them after a year and a half. I don't think Judge goes anywhere unless the remainder of the season turns into a complete nightmare.
Jason is a fucking multi-millionare he gonna be alright. Lots of people are in more dire straits than good ole Dr. Jason.
Furthermore, if this DOES become a turning point, then what the fucking hell was Judge waiting for? If firing Garrett works then why did it take so fucking long to realize it? Why did we get through an offseason with the guy? What happened to self scouting on the bye week?
Either way, JG deserves to go but this feels like just the first domino falling in trying to fix this utter shit show. I like Graham, but other than bringing him on board, Judge hasn't shown me a fucking thing so far. There's no brownie points for him today from this move, either.
in the Kitchen?
Yes with Dinah.
;)
The problem is Judge is exhibiting a lot of poor game management skills, and his gameplans are brutal. Those two things contributed heavily to the leaders recognizing Shurmur needed to go ...
in the Kitchen?
No. He's at the bar picking up (or failing to pick up) femail friends of BBI'ers.
Get a GM that fits Judge's vision to work at the hip together. Restart the clock on Judge. Give them carte blanche on the QB and other roster decisions.
Give them a couple years and evaluate them all as a package deal....If it doesn't work then the answer is clear. No more overlapping bullshit.
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undertalented team, lot of injuries and he was only hired 2 seasons ago.
The problem is Judge is exhibiting a lot of poor game management skills, and his gameplans are brutal. Those two things contributed heavily to the leaders recognizing Shurmur needed to go ...
Agreed. Judge increasingly looks like he is in over his head. His TO management is horrendous, as is his refusal to ever go for it on fourth down from midfield.
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In comment 15464520 japanhead said:
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The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
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In comment 15464556 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15464520 japanhead said:
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The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
Relatively speaking. I don't expect a top 10 offense or anything, but I think even a guy like Kitchens can manufacture some points by just being an unknown with nothing to lose. Kitchens will have a game with some new wrinkles, score more points than we have been (not saying much), and people will come out of the woodwork saying our solid team was just being held back by Garrett.
My guess: we'll probably force the ball to an underachieving Golladay deep and/or throw the ball to Toney a underneath on screens and watch him run 20 yards to gain 3 a bunch of times.
They have invested their resources from the outside in, and in many cases the investments (draft picks and FAs) were poorly spent. It's a passing league and we can't protect our passer or pressure the opponent's. The team was built to run the ball and can't do it. The QB is a complementary piece who can't simply line up and beat a defense.
It is hard to escape the idea that the people who bring the Giants back to respectability (players, coaches and front office) just aren't here yet.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
Pot meet Kettle. The fact is people like you want to scapegoat Garret for the fact that Jones is totally bad QB and Gettle is totally bad at his job.
Garrett didn't miss a wide open Golladay over the middle and instead did a high school QB one read and threw the ball 10 feet over someone 's head ; which is essetially a throw away.
Garrett didn't throw a pass right to Bucs DE when it was still a winnable game.
Garrett didn't throw a pass that hit Rudolph in the back and right into a Bucs safeties hands essentially ending the game.
The Tenesse Titans don't give a shit about offensive scheming.
Mcaddoo when this team went to the playoffs looked like an airline lost his playbook and he borrowed a local high schools
When Coach Parcells was here -- he ran every first down like it was clockwork.
In January, DG will be replaced and then we'll see if the front office has learned anything about half-measures and overlapping decisions with leadership hires.
"....Judge trying to save his job..."
What other options did he have after last night's escapades?
He has to do something to get the team's attention and focus back for the last 7 games, and getting rid of a guy he probably never wanted in the first place was a good start.
31st in explosive pass play rate in 2021, 30th in 2020
Averaged 1.6 offensive TD's per game over the last 26 games
We will remember the Garrett era as one of the worst two offensive seasons in team history
Get a GM that fits Judge's vision to work at the hip together. Restart the clock on Judge. Give them carte blanche on the QB and other roster decisions.
Give them a couple years and evaluate them all as a package deal....If it doesn't work then the answer is clear. No more overlapping bullshit.
And someone sit down with Judge and explain to him what time outs are, how many he gets each game, and how the clock works in football. This far into his second year and he seems to use timeouts based on the output of a random number generator.
The palace intrigues have started as these yoyo’s all scramble to save themselves.
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Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
Pot meet Kettle. The fact is people like you want to scapegoat Garret for the fact that Jones is totally bad QB and Gettle is totally bad at his job.
Garrett didn't miss a wide open Golladay over the middle and instead did a high school QB one read and threw the ball 10 feet over someone 's head ; which is essetially a throw away.
Garrett didn't throw a pass right to Bucs DE when it was still a winnable game.
Garrett didn't throw a pass that hit Rudolph in the back and right into a Bucs safeties hands essentially ending the game.
The Tenesse Titans don't give a shit about offensive scheming.
Mcaddoo when this team went to the playoffs looked like an airline lost his playbook and he borrowed a local high schools
When Coach Parcells was here -- he ran every first down like it was clockwork.
Well, I gues we're about to find out if the scheme and playcalling are a big contributor to the issues or just a small symptom.
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Not quite seeing it this way. I see no uptick whatsoever. Just a bunch of nincompoops trying to block at the LOS and failing miserably. From here on in.
Relatively speaking. I don't expect a top 10 offense or anything, but I think even a guy like Kitchens can manufacture some points by just being an unknown with nothing to lose. Kitchens will have a game with some new wrinkles, score more points than we have been (not saying much), and people will come out of the woodwork saying our solid team was just being held back by Garrett.
My guess: we'll probably force the ball to an underachieving Golladay deep and/or throw the ball to Toney a underneath on screens and watch him run 20 yards to gain 3 a bunch of times.
So tell me how Garrett was going to fix things if we kept him??
Bahhh Humbug!
They have invested their resources from the outside in, and in many cases the investments (draft picks and FAs) were poorly spent. It's a passing league and we can't protect our passer or pressure the opponent's. The team was built to run the ball and can't do it. The QB is a complementary piece who can't simply line up and beat a defense.
It is hard to escape the idea that the people who bring the Giants back to respectability (players, coaches and front office) just aren't here yet.
Well said Mike from Ohio.
Giants tweet - ( New Window )
Do I think he’s wrong? Nope. But he’s an incredibly unlikable guy.
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...one game? Maybe I'm getting seasons mixed up.
last season garrett had covid and kitchens called the plays i believe for the browns game, with colt mccoy at QB. [/quote]
I wish him well but this was a good move.
I would agree with this.
He should go to a school without an enormous pressure to produce, like one of the Ivy's or even the MAC.
Come off a bye week with that bollocks. What’s they work on, the pass to AT?
31st in explosive pass play rate in 2021, 30th in 2020
Averaged 1.6 offensive TD's per game over the last 26 games
We will remember the Garrett era as one of the worst two offensive seasons in team history
They never scored 30+ points with him. EVER
Lets not forget that as a rookie, DJ threw for 24 TD's and 12 INT's in 12 starts. He has throw 20 TD's total in 25 games with Garrett....
Are you expecting any other changes before the end of the season?
I’m sure his family won’t mind him being home. And I’m sure he has plenty of money saved up.
This is the Giants. Excuse making is being raised to an art form.
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now with freddie kitchens calling the plays?
with 50% pressure rates...not a chance. This is just judge trying to save his ass.
Jones's pressure rate is 28th in the league at 19.5%, meaning there are 27 QB's pressured more.
2. He should have been fired after last season.
3. He did nothing to help this QB apparently based upon the results and performance.
4. Firing Garrett is at this point nothing more than offering the fans something to believe in since the season is already lost. The reality is it makes no difference whether he was fired today or right after the season.
I'd say based on Garrett's interview last week where he said the OL wasn't fixed, there were clearly politics going on behind the scenes, which is usually the case when shit is going down, the finger pointing starts. The blame game was starting between the front office and coaches. That the Giants tweet a picture of Price giving up only 1 sack the next day, to me, tells the story.
In front of a national audience, you couldn't even have Eli help out last night to the point he was questioning plays along with Peyton.
Garrett has been around the NFL for 25 years as a player & coach, and out in Dallas for as long as he was, he knows what was up. He got his salvo out there knowing any slip up and he was gone. Well, it happened yesterday in the Giants last prime time game.
I do find it interesting that Kitchens will be coming in going up against a relatively easier schedule compared to before, with his (supposedly) healthy players coming back. Kitchens will be given his chance. Either way, Judge just used his lifeline to keep himself going here. If things fall apart the rest of the way, that will have huge ramifications for Gettleman/Abrams, Judge and Jones. This whole thing can come crumbling down real fast, or show enough to lead into 2022.
I think he can still afford to bring home the turkey.
I think all is well and good in the building and the factions are digging in assigning blame.
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
So I was wrong about Garrett taking the Giants job but believe I was absolutely correct about whether he should have. Anyway, best of luck to him. He earned over $50mm just during his Cowboys HC gig so I’m sure he’ll be fine.
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that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
thats not what i said..
I said is it possible him and garrett discussed the gameplan during the week, come up with the gameplan and Garretts playcalling doesnt reflect what they discussed?
EXactly, For once build the damn foundation of a team: Offense and Defense lines, then grab the skill players
DG on the other hand is gone at the end of the season and it is paramount that the Maras go outside their comfort zone and don't promote from within
I wouldn't worry about that now. He's a lame duck. He's not making any decisions he's done enough damage.
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time.
Too bad Garrett, with Judge signing off on strategy and play calling, couldn't make chicken salad out of the Gettleman's Mt Everest sized pile of chicken sh-t.
Embarrassing day.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
I've said all along I am neutral on Garrett. I was convinced from the minute he was hired it was to be Judge's training wheels to handle the head coach responsibilities. So I didn't have great expectations for him as the OC.
But he's been dealt a horrible hand by dealer Gettleman. And expecting him to build an offense around around a poor QB and a junior college OL is pretty laughable.
Maybe I'm wrong and Kitchens will have the magic potion to make chicken salad. I doubt it, but now he's on the clock...
Jerrrahhh will invite him for Thanksgiving I'm sure
Yep and Graham better pay attention.
agree'd, I always felt he was sent back here to sabotage.
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complaining that Garrett was not the only problem, it's Judge, the O-line etc. Of course it is. Lots of things need to be fixed. Mara should be exploring GM candidates now. When the Giants are done playing for the year, he can give DG the news and start interviewing. Let the new GM decide what he thinks of Judge and Jones. Draft O-line and edge high in the draft. Doesn't sound too complicated.
EXactly, For once build the damn foundation of a team: Offense and Defense lines, then grab the skill players
I'm with you montana
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
He should’ve been let go earlier in the season.
He never should’ve been allowed to remain beyond the bye week.
This was a disaster with Mara’s fingerprints all over it.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
You can’t possibly think this was funny or worth typing out.
DG on the other hand is gone at the end of the season and it is paramount that the Maras go outside their comfort zone and don't promote from within
I agree that I think Mara will show great patience in keeping Judge short of a total end of year collapse with divisional blowouts.
The issue with the "outside" GM thinking is what really changes? Judge is still here. What happens if they disagree on the roster or roster construction? It is a messy situation that unfortunately may need to get more messy before the house cleaning occurs. Judge needs to show something if he is going to be paired with a GM imo.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
Tried the corner and missed- ball 4, ball 8, ball 12- how can guys lay pitches so close..
Fail!
None of this spells out a change to winning football. Hard to know what the Giants need except the obvious interior offensive lineman.There have been personality clashes amongst the o coaching staff for two years with no real resolution or improvement. Garrett was middle management who usually take the heat but changes there rarely result in long term improvement.
I said it before, “I’ll not live to see a Giant team with a winning record”. Doesn’t mean I know how to fix it but I wish someone could.
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Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
Are you expecting any other changes before the end of the season?
No, I think this was probably the one bullet they had in the chamber. There's no reinforcements coming, the young bucks on the roster need to give it all they've got. Kitchens needs to open it up and get them playing more and thinking less.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
I will note that Kitchens was calling the plays for the 20-6 slopfest against the Browns last year when we went with Colt. Maybe he's learned some lessons, maybe he hasn't. If he can make chicken salad out this more power to him.
I am interested to see what Kitchens cooks up.
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In comment 15464693 nygiants16 said:
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that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
thats not what i said..
I said is it possible him and garrett discussed the gameplan during the week, come up with the gameplan and Garretts playcalling doesnt reflect what they discussed?
Judge is standing next to him on the sidelines during the game. If Judge is not seeing what he expected to see then he needs to be talking to him.
I don't think it is likely Judge was clear about what he wanted and then Garrett simply went out and did something else.
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now with freddie kitchens calling the plays?
with 50% pressure rates...not a chance. This is just judge trying to save his ass.
Absolutely. But isn't Judge the Head Coach? Doesn't he have veto power over offensive game plans? He is just as responsible, especially with his ultra-conservative, play not to lose team direction.
Garrett was a bad OC, but who can possibly make that offense work with Gettleman's offensive line? Solder? Hernandez? Neither of them could even get on another team's roster.
Fuck "class." This team is horrific.
Really? He's custom fit for John Mara. Ties to the organization and he's bad at his job. Just like the Giants.
Fuck.... you guys get a random thought in your head and just run with it
"must be true because I thought of it"
"He is and idiot"
- Baker Mayfield.
Whose goal? .... yours?
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In comment 15464556 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15464520 japanhead said:
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The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
He won the game in a big upset where he hadn't played in a long time; admitted to hyper ventilating while in the huddle ; and threw some clutch passes down the stretch to extend drives and win the game. He did well all things considered. He didn't throw for 400 yards and have 4 TDs while doing it is the problem now?
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clean fookin house.
Whose goal? .... yours?
Yes, the on display product is historically abysmal with no end in sight. Are you happy watching it?
Considering that the Giants are bottom 5 in most offensive categories, it would be more difficult to do worse.
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In comment 15464433 JonC said:
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clean fookin house.
Whose goal? .... yours?
Yes, the on display product is historically abysmal with no end in sight. Are you happy watching it?
no but cleaning house again is dumb so shut up.
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In comment 15464892 short lease said:
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In comment 15464433 JonC said:
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clean fookin house.
Whose goal? .... yours?
Yes, the on display product is historically abysmal with no end in sight. Are you happy watching it?
no but cleaning house again is dumb so shut up.
A mirror for the thought process in the building.
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In comment 15464577 Debaser said:
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In comment 15464556 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15464520 japanhead said:
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The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
He won the game in a big upset where he hadn't played in a long time; admitted to hyper ventilating while in the huddle ; and threw some clutch passes down the stretch to extend drives and win the game. He did well all things considered. He didn't throw for 400 yards and have 4 TDs while doing it is the problem now?
You said it. He passed for 328 and 2 TDs this year on the Cards against Seattle
Last year with us his stats were garbage. Yeah he had a couple nice passes but barely had 100 yards. You're saying scheme has nothing to do with it?
Be careful Jon. This dude lists his occupation as "nerd killer." Sounds like a real tough guy.
Fuck.... you guys get a random thought in your head and just run with it
"must be true because I thought of it"
Im sure this is not news, but if you are looking for rational thought, BBI the day after a Giants loss AND the firing of an OC is not the place to look....I mean not by a LONG shot:).
Because Baker Mayfield’s numbers drastically improved in a similar situation after Kitchens took over the play calling mid season. That’s how he got the head coaching job in the first place. Doesn’t guarantee it will happen here, but there is a history.
He's still under contract, and collecting a check with John Mara's signature on it, but he'll be doing so from home.
He could technically be reassigned, but that rarely happens
Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
His audition as O.C. will depend upon it.
Gettleman is 70 and I believe I heard on Papa's podcast that he's in the last year of his contract. There is no way on God's green Earth that he will be coming back. In some ways, similar to Garrett, Gettleman is the free pound of flesh to throw to the fans for Mara.
But, the real question here, what about Abrams? If there is to be real change in this org, you need to send him packing and have Chris Mara exit his position. Otherwise, it's a shell game.
Gettleman isn't the guy you should be worrying about if it's change you want.
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You need to grown up, son. All you do here is embarrass yourself. Having fun?
Be careful Jon. This dude lists his occupation as "nerd killer." Sounds like a real tough guy.
inside joke with some former posters on here, also if you know how to edit a profile feel free to share.
and no I do not embarrass myself, I'm just embarrassed what Giants fans are now
If Gettleman retires and Abrams becomes the GM, Mara has to know that the view from fans and the media will be "Giants content to stand pat in the offseason."
You said it. He passed for 328 and 2 TDs this year on the Cards against Seattle
Last year with us his stats were garbage. Yeah he had a couple nice passes but barely had 100 yards. You're saying scheme has nothing to do with it?
First of all this is not the same Seattle team. Second of all Gallman had a game of all things and was running well. Thirdly no I don't think scheme has anything to do with it.
I don't think jones is good at all. He played a horrible game. He threw what was one of the worst picks I have ever seen. And he is still doing the same old shit ; locking into receivers ; showing no instinct at all. He actually threw a pass to Rudolph that hit him in the back last night. He was always like this even with Shurmur
If Gettleman retires and Abrams becomes the GM, Mara has to know that the view from fans and the media will be "Giants content to stand pat in the offseason."
He is not that dumb but he will maybe hire a figure head gm who will serve more like a head scout w Mara still making the exec decisions
Actually I think the Giants will play well this SUnday. Not because Kitchens is going to be any kind of improvement but, there is something about a coach getting fired and getting blown out that would make the Giants play hard. I don't expect Barkley just to fall down when he gets to the line of scrmmage etc.
I’m just hoping this is the wake up call to John Mara that he maybe needs to re-evaluate whether or not he really knows as much about the modern NFL as he thinks he does. Maybe a guy he was so sure about showing himself as the worst OC in football is the push he needs to hand over decision making to a competent GM or VP Football Operations.
Giant fans are the paying customers who keep showing up, keep buying tickets, keep watching the games and keep talking about them on here 365 days a year even though the product they are providing is the worst in the NFL for the past 5 years.
Giant fans are spending their time and paying their money to be entertained. This isn't a school team with kids trying their best. This is professional football. Where they play for pay. In most cases for millions of dollars of pay and the Giants are every teams homecoming game. But Giant fans keep supporting them just like we did in the 1970s.
Listen to Joe Judge it's not Giant fans job to blindly follow a horrible product or to be patient with it. It's their job to entertain us and when they don't they should be replaced.
You want to talk about embarrassing watch some of the play cutups on twitter today on both sides of the ball from last night.
I just had a conversation with someone who was traveling with his friends family and met an Eagle fan cousin and a Cowboy fan cousin and he said he was a Giant fan. They said sorry bro, we feel for you. These are kids in their early 20's. They were barely teenagers the last time the Giants had a good team. In 2007 they weren't even 10 years old. To their generation the Giants are nothing but losers.
If Judge is up to it, he should do it himself
If your going to go down, be your own man
do it yourself
Hey all he has to do is leave Booker in there
Problem solved.....not brain surgery
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now with freddie kitchens calling the plays?
Depends - are they going to bench Hernandez and Solder?
In favor of whom? DG's ragamuffin bunch of slogmollies?
Has any GM ever declared an intention and failed so spectacularly at that goal before? And still have fans defending his "efforts"?
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in the Kitchen?
No. He's at the bar picking up (or failing to pick up) femail friends of BBI'ers.
He’s in the bathroom taking a dump and scribbling out our game plan on a sheet of toilet paper.
Scapegoat move, nothing more.
Scapegoat move, nothing more.
Agreed, it’s not like they are changing the whole playbook this week. It will just be a different order of crappy plays being called.
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In comment 15464419 japanhead said:
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now with freddie kitchens calling the plays?
Depends - are they going to bench Hernandez and Solder?
In favor of whom? DG's ragamuffin bunch of slogmollies?
Has any GM ever declared an intention and failed so spectacularly at that goal before? And still have fans defending his "efforts"?
It’s pretty bad. The only lineman that he has drafted that looks like a keeper is Thomas. Jury’s still out on Lemeiux but it’s not like he looked like anything all that great before he got hurt. Gates was a decent undrafted FA find, but he’s probably done now. Hernandez is horrendous, Peart must be really shitty if he can’t beat out Solder, and Solder is one of the worst FA signings ever. And based on what Zietler shared after leaving the team they didn’t even try to extend/restructure him this past offseason. He was arguably their best lineman the last few seasons and is playing well in Baltimore now.
But the bottom line is: They brought in Golladay, Toney and Randolph, they had Thomas and Barkley back last night, Slayton is playing, Engram is playing, they were coming off a bye week — and they still looked like they'd never seen an NFL defense before. The only TD was on a tackle-eligible trick play to Thomas, set up by an INT that put them near the Bucs' end zone. The actual offense generated 1 FG and 1 missed FG.
The OC is paid to find solutions, and Garrett had none.
Giant fans are the paying customers who keep showing up, keep buying tickets, keep watching the games and keep talking about them on here 365 days a year even though the product they are providing is the worst in the NFL for the past 5 years.
Giant fans are spending their time and paying their money to be entertained. This isn't a school team with kids trying their best. This is professional football. Where they play for pay. In most cases for millions of dollars of pay and the Giants are every teams homecoming game. But Giant fans keep supporting them just like we did in the 1970s.
Listen to Joe Judge it's not Giant fans job to blindly follow a horrible product or to be patient with it. It's their job to entertain us and when they don't they should be replaced.
You want to talk about embarrassing watch some of the play cutups on twitter today on both sides of the ball from last night.
I just had a conversation with someone who was traveling with his friends family and met an Eagle fan cousin and a Cowboy fan cousin and he said he was a Giant fan. They said sorry bro, we feel for you. These are kids in their early 20's. They were barely teenagers the last time the Giants had a good team. In 2007 they weren't even 10 years old. To their generation the Giants are nothing but losers.
What was the Cowboy fan apologizing for. They are off to a good start this year, but the haven’t done shit since the 90’s… likely before that 20-something kid was born.
Batenhorst: registered 10/21.
The trolls are out in full force.
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Will Hernandez will suddenly learn how to block?
Scapegoat move, nothing more.
Agreed, it’s not like they are changing the whole playbook this week. It will just be a different order of crappy plays being called.
Last night they took their best players out of the game and ran a 4th and 1 with Collin Johnson and some TE I dont even know while Golladay and Toney sat on the bench.
Simply putting your best players on the field is an improvement.
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I expect Garrett was dumped on Judge. Judge is a technocrat, not a playcaller. I mean there are basics which we all recognize Garrett is not doing, so you know everyone in that locker room knows it as well. They see it in action.Kitchens can take over, and I hope he has a scheme in his back pocket. Kitchens probably was tipped off months ago to take over
I'd say based on Garrett's interview last week where he said the OL wasn't fixed, there were clearly politics going on behind the scenes, which is usually the case when shit is going down, the finger pointing starts. The blame game was starting between the front office and coaches. That the Giants tweet a picture of Price giving up only 1 sack the next day, to me, tells the story.
In front of a national audience, you couldn't even have Eli help out last night to the point he was questioning plays along with Peyton.
Garrett has been around the NFL for 25 years as a player & coach, and out in Dallas for as long as he was, he knows what was up. He got his salvo out there knowing any slip up and he was gone. Well, it happened yesterday in the Giants last prime time game.
I do find it interesting that Kitchens will be coming in going up against a relatively easier schedule compared to before, with his (supposedly) healthy players coming back. Kitchens will be given his chance. Either way, Judge just used his lifeline to keep himself going here. If things fall apart the rest of the way, that will have huge ramifications for Gettleman/Abrams, Judge and Jones. This whole thing can come crumbling down real fast, or show enough to lead into 2022.
It will take very little for Frick and Frack in the owner's booth, and the bleed blue diehard fans to proclaim "improvement."
so everything is shaping up just as you thought it would! you must be excited all of your predictions for this season are coming true!
Taking over Garrett's duties for just one game I think is different than being named the offensive coordinator (interim) for the last 7 weeks of this season. When Garrett went down with Covid it was still Garrett's offense and he just had to do his best to mimic what Garrett would've done, which I can imagine is difficult. Now he gets to run the show (not saying they can re-vamp an offense this late in the season but he gets to have more time/lee-way with developing schemes and trying new things).
Wellington knew football, John simply doesn't. I agree with the previous comment turn over control of the team to a true professional.
I've been a fan fof more than 60 years, the team should be managed by someone who knows NFl football.
Larry
Head coach salaries are generally guaranteed. I do not know about coordinators.
I hope so. It's a prison of his own making. He can afford it btw.
Yea but we don't know what we have in jones . Our back up has played 1/2 a dozen fewer games on different teams but he is a back up but we don't know what we have in jones who played one good qtr all year.
Couldn't make it in Cleveland when they couldn't win 5 games. This is the same as when we hired Pat Shurmur as head coach. This is nothing but blaming someone else for your shortcomings. Judge us trying to deflect the blame when he is in the fucking room too, ge is head coach, ge could step in during the week when game plans are being put together. How can you have Galloday get 2 targets? Blaming Garrett us Bulkshit. It will make the Giant fans that still want to believe Barkkey and Jones were good picks, it will keep them hanging on, but this stinks and passing blame down is something this organization does real well.
So true. This was about Barkley back who just sucks and jones who sucks. And not Vince Lombardi and Bill Bellichek will change that.
The absolute lack of use of those 2 is inexcusable - C. Johnson is getting significant snaps in this offense when Toney/Golliday are healthy -
Judge learned under Belichik. In what world would Belichik keep trotting out a guy at RT who shouldn’t be playing at all let alone starting. Peart may not be the answer long term but there is no way in hell Belichik or any competent HC keeps him on the bench when the starter has proven he can’t play
The absolute lack of use of those 2 is inexcusable - C. Johnson is getting significant snaps in this offense when Toney/Golliday are healthy -
Judge learned under Belichik. In what world would Belichik keep trotting out a guy at RT who shouldn’t be playing at all let alone starting. Peart may not be the answer long term but there is no way in hell Belichik or any competent HC keeps him on the bench when the starter has proven he can’t play
You're out of your freakin minds if you think this isn't anything more than a desperate attempt by the front office.
Maybe Golladay was winded and needed a rest. You are really blaming Garrett for this?
You think now that he is gone or would have been gone earlier this magically becomes a 9-0 team?
I was not crazy about the Garret move but at the samre time the dude had a record of winning. What did Joey time outs ever do? Ask Bill Bellicheck what play he wanted run on special teams? So obvious this guy is a high school cafeteria lunch worker. So lame that Eli got benched. Garrett who was basically set up to fail with this oline and bush league QB and over hyped RB gets canned. But resume Dave is going to ride off in the sunset and Mara is going to present Strahan jersey retirement ceremony. so lame with half this place desperately cheering it on in vain attempt to pretend we don't know what we have in jones.
Where's Rudolph? Where's Toney? Where's Ross? Where's Engram? For two weeks people have bitched that Jones is missing all his weapons. Then you have them all, and they don't see the field when it matters.
Garrett sucks. So does the front office and maybe the head coach. They can all leave.