Jason Garrett sucks. It amazes me that Giants fans would adopt a loser cowboys HC and make excuses forna guy who was fired from Dallas for being mediocre.
Now let Judge help put his own offensive guys in place to implement the kind of ball that fits his vision.
Get a GM that fits Judge's vision to work at the hip together. Restart the clock on Judge. Give them carte blanche on the QB and other roster decisions.
Give them a couple years and evaluate them all as a package deal....If it doesn't work then the answer is clear. No more overlapping bullshit.
Couldn't make it in Cleveland when they couldn't win 5 games. This is the same as when we hired Pat Shurmur as head coach. This is nothing but blaming someone else for your shortcomings. Judge us trying to deflect the blame when he is in the fucking room too, ge is head coach, ge could step in during the week when game plans are being put together. How can you have Galloday get 2 targets? Blaming Garrett us Bulkshit. It will make the Giant fans that still want to believe Barkkey and Jones were good picks, it will keep them hanging on, but this stinks and passing blame down is something this organization does real well.
Kitchens was trying to make a young Baker Mayfield and a young Browns team into a vertical passing team. That’s not what they were (as we see now). I think the way Kitchens calls plays better matches up with Daniel Jones than he did with Baker.
undertalented team, lot of injuries and he was only hired 2 seasons ago.
The problem is Judge is exhibiting a lot of poor game management skills, and his gameplans are brutal. Those two things contributed heavily to the leaders recognizing Shurmur needed to go ...
Agreed. Judge increasingly looks like he is in over his head. His TO management is horrendous, as is his refusal to ever go for it on fourth down from midfield.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Didn't Kitchens have to call plays this year...
Not quite seeing it this way. I see no uptick whatsoever. Just a bunch of nincompoops trying to block at the LOS and failing miserably. From here on in.
Relatively speaking. I don't expect a top 10 offense or anything, but I think even a guy like Kitchens can manufacture some points by just being an unknown with nothing to lose. Kitchens will have a game with some new wrinkles, score more points than we have been (not saying much), and people will come out of the woodwork saying our solid team was just being held back by Garrett.
My guess: we'll probably force the ball to an underachieving Golladay deep and/or throw the ball to Toney a underneath on screens and watch him run 20 yards to gain 3 a bunch of times.
but not the most significant piece. This roster is a disaster that simply isn't built to succeed in the NFL.
They have invested their resources from the outside in, and in many cases the investments (draft picks and FAs) were poorly spent. It's a passing league and we can't protect our passer or pressure the opponent's. The team was built to run the ball and can't do it. The QB is a complementary piece who can't simply line up and beat a defense.
It is hard to escape the idea that the people who bring the Giants back to respectability (players, coaches and front office) just aren't here yet.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
Pot meet Kettle. The fact is people like you want to scapegoat Garret for the fact that Jones is totally bad QB and Gettle is totally bad at his job.
Garrett didn't miss a wide open Golladay over the middle and instead did a high school QB one read and threw the ball 10 feet over someone 's head ; which is essetially a throw away.
Garrett didn't throw a pass right to Bucs DE when it was still a winnable game.
Garrett didn't throw a pass that hit Rudolph in the back and right into a Bucs safeties hands essentially ending the game.
The Tenesse Titans don't give a shit about offensive scheming.
Mcaddoo when this team went to the playoffs looked like an airline lost his playbook and he borrowed a local high schools
When Coach Parcells was here -- he ran every first down like it was clockwork.
this is Judge trying to save his job is correct, because if it does all fall apart no one will be safe after the season ends.
In January, DG will be replaced and then we'll see if the front office has learned anything about half-measures and overlapping decisions with leadership hires.
"....Judge trying to save his job..."
What other options did he have after last night's escapades?
He has to do something to get the team's attention and focus back for the last 7 games, and getting rid of a guy he probably never wanted in the first place was a good start.
Now let Judge help put his own offensive guys in place to implement the kind of ball that fits his vision.
Get a GM that fits Judge's vision to work at the hip together. Restart the clock on Judge. Give them carte blanche on the QB and other roster decisions.
Give them a couple years and evaluate them all as a package deal....If it doesn't work then the answer is clear. No more overlapping bullshit.
And someone sit down with Judge and explain to him what time outs are, how many he gets each game, and how the clock works in football. This far into his second year and he seems to use timeouts based on the output of a random number generator.
Jason Garrett sucks. It amazes me that Giants fans would adopt a loser cowboys HC and make excuses forna guy who was fired from Dallas for being mediocre.
(a) Garrett isn’t the only one (b) if they hung a sign on Garrett that said “scapegoat”, it couldn’t be more transparent (c) Judge’s asshole buddy Kitchens was “Senior Offensive Assistant” but we are to believe he had absolutely nothing to do with the suck offense and everything will be much better now.
The palace intrigues have started as these yoyo’s all scramble to save themselves.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
Pot meet Kettle. The fact is people like you want to scapegoat Garret for the fact that Jones is totally bad QB and Gettle is totally bad at his job.
Garrett didn't miss a wide open Golladay over the middle and instead did a high school QB one read and threw the ball 10 feet over someone 's head ; which is essetially a throw away.
Garrett didn't throw a pass right to Bucs DE when it was still a winnable game.
Garrett didn't throw a pass that hit Rudolph in the back and right into a Bucs safeties hands essentially ending the game.
The Tenesse Titans don't give a shit about offensive scheming.
Mcaddoo when this team went to the playoffs looked like an airline lost his playbook and he borrowed a local high schools
When Coach Parcells was here -- he ran every first down like it was clockwork.
Well, I gues we're about to find out if the scheme and playcalling are a big contributor to the issues or just a small symptom.
I expect Garrett was dumped on Judge. Judge is a technocrat, not a playcaller. I mean there are basics which we all recognize Garrett is not doing, so you know everyone in that locker room knows it as well. They see it in action.Kitchens can take over, and I hope he has a scheme in his back pocket. Kitchens probably was tipped off months ago to take over
RE: RE: RE: I think the offense will have a significant uptick for about 1-2 games
Not quite seeing it this way. I see no uptick whatsoever. Just a bunch of nincompoops trying to block at the LOS and failing miserably. From here on in.
Relatively speaking. I don't expect a top 10 offense or anything, but I think even a guy like Kitchens can manufacture some points by just being an unknown with nothing to lose. Kitchens will have a game with some new wrinkles, score more points than we have been (not saying much), and people will come out of the woodwork saying our solid team was just being held back by Garrett.
My guess: we'll probably force the ball to an underachieving Golladay deep and/or throw the ball to Toney a underneath on screens and watch him run 20 yards to gain 3 a bunch of times.
So tell me how Garrett was going to fix things if we kept him??
but not the most significant piece. This roster is a disaster that simply isn't built to succeed in the NFL.
They have invested their resources from the outside in, and in many cases the investments (draft picks and FAs) were poorly spent. It's a passing league and we can't protect our passer or pressure the opponent's. The team was built to run the ball and can't do it. The QB is a complementary piece who can't simply line up and beat a defense.
It is hard to escape the idea that the people who bring the Giants back to respectability (players, coaches and front office) just aren't here yet.
Garrett is a schmuck, with this Fight tee shirt, throwing the players under the bus to the press earlier in the week, not to mention his antics in Dallas angling for Phillips job.
Do I think he’s wrong? Nope. But he’s an incredibly unlikable guy.
RE: RE: Didn't Kitchens have to call plays this year...
tell at the PC last night JJ was not happy. He kept saying they need to put their players in the spots to succeed in a way that suggested he didn’t think they did.
Come off a bye week with that bollocks. What’s they work on, the pass to AT?
Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
complaining that Garrett was not the only problem, it's Judge, the O-line etc. Of course it is. Lots of things need to be fixed. Mara should be exploring GM candidates now. When the Giants are done playing for the year, he can give DG the news and start interviewing. Let the new GM decide what he thinks of Judge and Jones. Draft O-line and edge high in the draft. Doesn't sound too complicated.
Not sure how much impact it will have at this point but SOMETHING had to be done. Even if you're working within Garrett's system, you need a fresh set of eyes on this offense. It is broken.
Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
Are you expecting any other changes before the end of the season?
1. He never should have been hired in the first place. IMO, he was forced upon Judge to be a mentor and to "help" him. Once again, meddling by upper management
2. He should have been fired after last season.
3. He did nothing to help this QB apparently based upon the results and performance.
4. Firing Garrett is at this point nothing more than offering the fans something to believe in since the season is already lost. The reality is it makes no difference whether he was fired today or right after the season.
I expect Garrett was dumped on Judge. Judge is a technocrat, not a playcaller. I mean there are basics which we all recognize Garrett is not doing, so you know everyone in that locker room knows it as well. They see it in action.Kitchens can take over, and I hope he has a scheme in his back pocket. Kitchens probably was tipped off months ago to take over
I'd say based on Garrett's interview last week where he said the OL wasn't fixed, there were clearly politics going on behind the scenes, which is usually the case when shit is going down, the finger pointing starts. The blame game was starting between the front office and coaches. That the Giants tweet a picture of Price giving up only 1 sack the next day, to me, tells the story.
In front of a national audience, you couldn't even have Eli help out last night to the point he was questioning plays along with Peyton.
Garrett has been around the NFL for 25 years as a player & coach, and out in Dallas for as long as he was, he knows what was up. He got his salvo out there knowing any slip up and he was gone. Well, it happened yesterday in the Giants last prime time game.
I do find it interesting that Kitchens will be coming in going up against a relatively easier schedule compared to before, with his (supposedly) healthy players coming back. Kitchens will be given his chance. Either way, Judge just used his lifeline to keep himself going here. If things fall apart the rest of the way, that will have huge ramifications for Gettleman/Abrams, Judge and Jones. This whole thing can come crumbling down real fast, or show enough to lead into 2022.
We just see the on field results. We have no idea what is going on in the building. Go back to the preseason. Remember the AT article and how people inside the building were concerned that they were not getting what they thought they were. That was leaked for a reason.
I think all is well and good in the building and the factions are digging in assigning blame.
that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
Someone from the outside with modern ideas not named Mara needs to come in with complete control over football operations and clean house including Gettleman, Abrams and anyone else from the past. Enough half measures and stop putting a band-aid on an open knife wound. Take your damn medicine as I am totally sick of this shit
When the rumors surfaced about Garrett becoming the
Giants’ OC, I was incredulous that Garrett would even consider taking it. For his career’s sake, he should have sat it out and at worst would have been a leading candidate for the Sooners or A&M head coaching jobs when they came open. He could have waltzed in to one of those positions and earned $10mm a year and 8-10 wins for the rest of his career. That’s the worst case. Being the Cowboys HC for a decade has immense cachet, esp in the south. Now he has a big blemish on his resume.
So I was wrong about Garrett taking the Giants job but believe I was absolutely correct about whether he should have. Anyway, best of luck to him. He earned over $50mm just during his Cowboys HC gig so I’m sure he’ll be fine.
that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
thats not what i said..
I said is it possible him and garrett discussed the gameplan during the week, come up with the gameplan and Garretts playcalling doesnt reflect what they discussed?
I hope the clock doesn't restart on any of the other parties
Meaning don't keep DG and Judge and Jones simply because they win 3-4 games the rest of the year.. let's keep evaluating them based on season as a whole.
complaining that Garrett was not the only problem, it's Judge, the O-line etc. Of course it is. Lots of things need to be fixed. Mara should be exploring GM candidates now. When the Giants are done playing for the year, he can give DG the news and start interviewing. Let the new GM decide what he thinks of Judge and Jones. Draft O-line and edge high in the draft. Doesn't sound too complicated.
EXactly, For once build the damn foundation of a team: Offense and Defense lines, then grab the skill players
in the Kitchen?
No. He's at the bar picking up (or failing to pick up) femail friends of BBI'ers.
Get a GM that fits Judge's vision to work at the hip together. Restart the clock on Judge. Give them carte blanche on the QB and other roster decisions.
Give them a couple years and evaluate them all as a package deal....If it doesn't work then the answer is clear. No more overlapping bullshit.
Quote:
undertalented team, lot of injuries and he was only hired 2 seasons ago.
The problem is Judge is exhibiting a lot of poor game management skills, and his gameplans are brutal. Those two things contributed heavily to the leaders recognizing Shurmur needed to go ...
Agreed. Judge increasingly looks like he is in over his head. His TO management is horrendous, as is his refusal to ever go for it on fourth down from midfield.
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In comment 15464520 japanhead said:
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The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
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In comment 15464556 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15464520 japanhead said:
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The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
Relatively speaking. I don't expect a top 10 offense or anything, but I think even a guy like Kitchens can manufacture some points by just being an unknown with nothing to lose. Kitchens will have a game with some new wrinkles, score more points than we have been (not saying much), and people will come out of the woodwork saying our solid team was just being held back by Garrett.
My guess: we'll probably force the ball to an underachieving Golladay deep and/or throw the ball to Toney a underneath on screens and watch him run 20 yards to gain 3 a bunch of times.
They have invested their resources from the outside in, and in many cases the investments (draft picks and FAs) were poorly spent. It's a passing league and we can't protect our passer or pressure the opponent's. The team was built to run the ball and can't do it. The QB is a complementary piece who can't simply line up and beat a defense.
It is hard to escape the idea that the people who bring the Giants back to respectability (players, coaches and front office) just aren't here yet.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
Pot meet Kettle. The fact is people like you want to scapegoat Garret for the fact that Jones is totally bad QB and Gettle is totally bad at his job.
Garrett didn't miss a wide open Golladay over the middle and instead did a high school QB one read and threw the ball 10 feet over someone 's head ; which is essetially a throw away.
Garrett didn't throw a pass right to Bucs DE when it was still a winnable game.
Garrett didn't throw a pass that hit Rudolph in the back and right into a Bucs safeties hands essentially ending the game.
The Tenesse Titans don't give a shit about offensive scheming.
Mcaddoo when this team went to the playoffs looked like an airline lost his playbook and he borrowed a local high schools
When Coach Parcells was here -- he ran every first down like it was clockwork.
In January, DG will be replaced and then we'll see if the front office has learned anything about half-measures and overlapping decisions with leadership hires.
"....Judge trying to save his job..."
What other options did he have after last night's escapades?
He has to do something to get the team's attention and focus back for the last 7 games, and getting rid of a guy he probably never wanted in the first place was a good start.
31st in explosive pass play rate in 2021, 30th in 2020
Averaged 1.6 offensive TD's per game over the last 26 games
We will remember the Garrett era as one of the worst two offensive seasons in team history
Get a GM that fits Judge's vision to work at the hip together. Restart the clock on Judge. Give them carte blanche on the QB and other roster decisions.
Give them a couple years and evaluate them all as a package deal....If it doesn't work then the answer is clear. No more overlapping bullshit.
And someone sit down with Judge and explain to him what time outs are, how many he gets each game, and how the clock works in football. This far into his second year and he seems to use timeouts based on the output of a random number generator.
The palace intrigues have started as these yoyo’s all scramble to save themselves.
Quote:
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
Pot meet Kettle. The fact is people like you want to scapegoat Garret for the fact that Jones is totally bad QB and Gettle is totally bad at his job.
Garrett didn't miss a wide open Golladay over the middle and instead did a high school QB one read and threw the ball 10 feet over someone 's head ; which is essetially a throw away.
Garrett didn't throw a pass right to Bucs DE when it was still a winnable game.
Garrett didn't throw a pass that hit Rudolph in the back and right into a Bucs safeties hands essentially ending the game.
The Tenesse Titans don't give a shit about offensive scheming.
Mcaddoo when this team went to the playoffs looked like an airline lost his playbook and he borrowed a local high schools
When Coach Parcells was here -- he ran every first down like it was clockwork.
Well, I gues we're about to find out if the scheme and playcalling are a big contributor to the issues or just a small symptom.
Quote:
Not quite seeing it this way. I see no uptick whatsoever. Just a bunch of nincompoops trying to block at the LOS and failing miserably. From here on in.
Relatively speaking. I don't expect a top 10 offense or anything, but I think even a guy like Kitchens can manufacture some points by just being an unknown with nothing to lose. Kitchens will have a game with some new wrinkles, score more points than we have been (not saying much), and people will come out of the woodwork saying our solid team was just being held back by Garrett.
My guess: we'll probably force the ball to an underachieving Golladay deep and/or throw the ball to Toney a underneath on screens and watch him run 20 yards to gain 3 a bunch of times.
So tell me how Garrett was going to fix things if we kept him??
Bahhh Humbug!
They have invested their resources from the outside in, and in many cases the investments (draft picks and FAs) were poorly spent. It's a passing league and we can't protect our passer or pressure the opponent's. The team was built to run the ball and can't do it. The QB is a complementary piece who can't simply line up and beat a defense.
It is hard to escape the idea that the people who bring the Giants back to respectability (players, coaches and front office) just aren't here yet.
Well said Mike from Ohio.
Giants tweet - ( New Window )
Do I think he’s wrong? Nope. But he’s an incredibly unlikable guy.
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...one game? Maybe I'm getting seasons mixed up.
last season garrett had covid and kitchens called the plays i believe for the browns game, with colt mccoy at QB. [/quote]
I wish him well but this was a good move.
I would agree with this.
He should go to a school without an enormous pressure to produce, like one of the Ivy's or even the MAC.
Come off a bye week with that bollocks. What’s they work on, the pass to AT?
31st in explosive pass play rate in 2021, 30th in 2020
Averaged 1.6 offensive TD's per game over the last 26 games
We will remember the Garrett era as one of the worst two offensive seasons in team history
They never scored 30+ points with him. EVER
Lets not forget that as a rookie, DJ threw for 24 TD's and 12 INT's in 12 starts. He has throw 20 TD's total in 25 games with Garrett....
Are you expecting any other changes before the end of the season?
I’m sure his family won’t mind him being home. And I’m sure he has plenty of money saved up.
This is the Giants. Excuse making is being raised to an art form.
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now with freddie kitchens calling the plays?
with 50% pressure rates...not a chance. This is just judge trying to save his ass.
Jones's pressure rate is 28th in the league at 19.5%, meaning there are 27 QB's pressured more.
2. He should have been fired after last season.
3. He did nothing to help this QB apparently based upon the results and performance.
4. Firing Garrett is at this point nothing more than offering the fans something to believe in since the season is already lost. The reality is it makes no difference whether he was fired today or right after the season.
I'd say based on Garrett's interview last week where he said the OL wasn't fixed, there were clearly politics going on behind the scenes, which is usually the case when shit is going down, the finger pointing starts. The blame game was starting between the front office and coaches. That the Giants tweet a picture of Price giving up only 1 sack the next day, to me, tells the story.
In front of a national audience, you couldn't even have Eli help out last night to the point he was questioning plays along with Peyton.
Garrett has been around the NFL for 25 years as a player & coach, and out in Dallas for as long as he was, he knows what was up. He got his salvo out there knowing any slip up and he was gone. Well, it happened yesterday in the Giants last prime time game.
I do find it interesting that Kitchens will be coming in going up against a relatively easier schedule compared to before, with his (supposedly) healthy players coming back. Kitchens will be given his chance. Either way, Judge just used his lifeline to keep himself going here. If things fall apart the rest of the way, that will have huge ramifications for Gettleman/Abrams, Judge and Jones. This whole thing can come crumbling down real fast, or show enough to lead into 2022.
I think he can still afford to bring home the turkey.
I think all is well and good in the building and the factions are digging in assigning blame.
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
So I was wrong about Garrett taking the Giants job but believe I was absolutely correct about whether he should have. Anyway, best of luck to him. He earned over $50mm just during his Cowboys HC gig so I’m sure he’ll be fine.
Quote:
that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
thats not what i said..
I said is it possible him and garrett discussed the gameplan during the week, come up with the gameplan and Garretts playcalling doesnt reflect what they discussed?
EXactly, For once build the damn foundation of a team: Offense and Defense lines, then grab the skill players