Too bad Garrett, with Judge signing off on strategy and play calling, couldn't make chicken salad out of the Gettleman's Mt Everest sized pile of chicken sh-t.
Embarrassing day.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
I've said all along I am neutral on Garrett. I was convinced from the minute he was hired it was to be Judge's training wheels to handle the head coach responsibilities. So I didn't have great expectations for him as the OC.
But he's been dealt a horrible hand by dealer Gettleman. And expecting him to build an offense around around a poor QB and a junior college OL is pretty laughable.
Maybe I'm wrong and Kitchens will have the magic potion to make chicken salad. I doubt it, but now he's on the clock...
Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
Yep and Graham better pay attention.
RE: Jerrah is going to invite him home to Dallas with a job of some sort
complaining that Garrett was not the only problem, it's Judge, the O-line etc. Of course it is. Lots of things need to be fixed. Mara should be exploring GM candidates now. When the Giants are done playing for the year, he can give DG the news and start interviewing. Let the new GM decide what he thinks of Judge and Jones. Draft O-line and edge high in the draft. Doesn't sound too complicated.
EXactly, For once build the damn foundation of a team: Offense and Defense lines, then grab the skill players
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
You can’t possibly think this was funny or worth typing out.
There is no way in hell that Mara will fire his 3rd coach in 6 years..No Way.
DG on the other hand is gone at the end of the season and it is paramount that the Maras go outside their comfort zone and don't promote from within
I agree that I think Mara will show great patience in keeping Judge short of a total end of year collapse with divisional blowouts.
The issue with the "outside" GM thinking is what really changes? Judge is still here. What happens if they disagree on the roster or roster construction? It is a messy situation that unfortunately may need to get more messy before the house cleaning occurs. Judge needs to show something if he is going to be paired with a GM imo.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
Tried the corner and missed- ball 4, ball 8, ball 12- how can guys lay pitches so close..
Fail!
The offense quit last night. Perhaps D’ too. But Garrett is ‘goat’
for Jones poor year and general crappy offense. I don’t pretend to know how players will react and how much the offense will change. #26 will still tippy toe in the backfield, Jones will still stare down his first receiver, and Engram will still drop balls, and Golliday will be an arrogant underachiever.
None of this spells out a change to winning football. Hard to know what the Giants need except the obvious interior offensive lineman.There have been personality clashes amongst the o coaching staff for two years with no real resolution or improvement. Garrett was middle management who usually take the heat but changes there rarely result in long term improvement.
I said it before, “I’ll not live to see a Giant team with a winning record”. Doesn’t mean I know how to fix it but I wish someone could.
Openly questioned play calling on air. I would speculate Eli knew Garret would be getting fired if the offense did not show up last night. I would not be surprised he told the owners the play calling sucks.
Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
Are you expecting any other changes before the end of the season?
No, I think this was probably the one bullet they had in the chamber. There's no reinforcements coming, the young bucks on the roster need to give it all they've got. Kitchens needs to open it up and get them playing more and thinking less.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
This is uncomfortably cringy
I'm in the what could it hurt camp. We've been terrible on offense
under his coaching, and you can't fire the players (yet, anyway). When your LT has more touchdown catches than your top free agent acquisition and your number 1 pick then you get to be home for the holidays.
I will note that Kitchens was calling the plays for the 20-6 slopfest against the Browns last year when we went with Colt. Maybe he's learned some lessons, maybe he hasn't. If he can make chicken salad out this more power to him.
has its tendrils in all of the decisions this team has made recently. Garrett was kept because of Jones. For all of the reasons we discussed here ad nauseum. That offense really was TERRIBLE.
that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
thats not what i said..
I said is it possible him and garrett discussed the gameplan during the week, come up with the gameplan and Garretts playcalling doesnt reflect what they discussed?
Judge is standing next to him on the sidelines during the game. If Judge is not seeing what he expected to see then he needs to be talking to him.
I don't think it is likely Judge was clear about what he wanted and then Garrett simply went out and did something else.
with 50% pressure rates...not a chance. This is just judge trying to save his ass.
Absolutely. But isn't Judge the Head Coach? Doesn't he have veto power over offensive game plans? He is just as responsible, especially with his ultra-conservative, play not to lose team direction.
Garrett was a bad OC, but who can possibly make that offense work with Gettleman's offensive line? Solder? Hernandez? Neither of them could even get on another team's roster.
What does relieved of his duties as OC mean? Was he fired, as in no longer employed by the Giants? Or, did he simply have playcalling duties taken away/demoted?
Anyone would expect Kitchens to somehow improve this offense. He has only served as an Offensive Playcaller twice in the NFL. For 8 games in Cleveland in 2018 when he went 5-3 after a 2-5-1 start as a offensive Assistant. His other experience was last year during the Browns game when Garrett went down with Covid and the Giants under his playing only scored 6 points. Not much to get optimistic about really.
The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
He won the game in a big upset where he hadn't played in a long time; admitted to hyper ventilating while in the huddle ; and threw some clutch passes down the stretch to extend drives and win the game. He did well all things considered. He didn't throw for 400 yards and have 4 TDs while doing it is the problem now?
Anyone would expect Kitchens to somehow improve this offense. He has only served as an Offensive Playcaller twice in the NFL. For 8 games in Cleveland in 2018 when he went 5-3 after a 2-5-1 start as a offensive Assistant. His other experience was last year during the Browns game when Garrett went down with Covid and the Giants under his playing only scored 6 points. Not much to get optimistic about really.
Considering that the Giants are bottom 5 in most offensive categories, it would be more difficult to do worse.
And the offense was more efficient, more yards and overall attacked downfield more when Kitchens was OC for one game last year than when McCoy started with Garrett.
The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
He won the game in a big upset where he hadn't played in a long time; admitted to hyper ventilating while in the huddle ; and threw some clutch passes down the stretch to extend drives and win the game. He did well all things considered. He didn't throw for 400 yards and have 4 TDs while doing it is the problem now?
You said it. He passed for 328 and 2 TDs this year on the Cards against Seattle
Last year with us his stats were garbage. Yeah he had a couple nice passes but barely had 100 yards. You're saying scheme has nothing to do with it?
Enduring the pain of losing more sucks, but it's coming either with this regime or the beginning of the next. This one has earned a vote of no confidence from me. Next!
stop acting like we know everything on here. We have no idea what conversations meetings led up to this, maybe there was a lockerroom burst.
Fuck.... you guys get a random thought in your head and just run with it
"must be true because I thought of it"
Im sure this is not news, but if you are looking for rational thought, BBI the day after a Giants loss AND the firing of an OC is not the place to look....I mean not by a LONG shot:).
Anyone would expect Kitchens to somehow improve this offense. He has only served as an Offensive Playcaller twice in the NFL. For 8 games in Cleveland in 2018 when he went 5-3 after a 2-5-1 start as a offensive Assistant. His other experience was last year during the Browns game when Garrett went down with Covid and the Giants under his playing only scored 6 points. Not much to get optimistic about really.
Because Baker Mayfield’s numbers drastically improved in a similar situation after Kitchens took over the play calling mid season. That’s how he got the head coaching job in the first place. Doesn’t guarantee it will happen here, but there is a history.
RE: If the answer is somewhere in here, I apologize
What does relieved of his duties as OC mean? Was he fired, as in no longer employed by the Giants? Or, did he simply have playcalling duties taken away/demoted?
He's still under contract, and collecting a check with John Mara's signature on it, but he'll be doing so from home.
He could technically be reassigned, but that rarely happens
it's not Gettleman anymore, IMO. Last offseason, the Giants very clearly trotted out Abrams & Petit in the offseason interviews during free agency and the draft. It was made very clear that Abrams was part of the interview process that selected Judge.
Gettleman is 70 and I believe I heard on Papa's podcast that he's in the last year of his contract. There is no way on God's green Earth that he will be coming back. In some ways, similar to Garrett, Gettleman is the free pound of flesh to throw to the fans for Mara.
But, the real question here, what about Abrams? If there is to be real change in this org, you need to send him packing and have Chris Mara exit his position. Otherwise, it's a shell game.
Gettleman isn't the guy you should be worrying about if it's change you want.
DG on the other hand is gone at the end of the season and it is paramount that the Maras go outside their comfort zone and don't promote from within
I wouldn't worry about that now. He's a lame duck. He's not making any decisions he's done enough damage.
Quote:
time.
Too bad Garrett, with Judge signing off on strategy and play calling, couldn't make chicken salad out of the Gettleman's Mt Everest sized pile of chicken sh-t.
Embarrassing day.
Garrett absolutely sucked at his job. You have been bizarrely defending him all season regardless of all the evidence. And it’s because you didn’t WANT him to be an issue. I’m guessing you somehow think that acknowledging that Garrett was a disaster that it would somehow take away from the focus on DG and Jones that you so desperately want. But there is plenty of blame to around, including DG and Jones. Garrett also sucking doesn’t take anything away from that.
I've said all along I am neutral on Garrett. I was convinced from the minute he was hired it was to be Judge's training wheels to handle the head coach responsibilities. So I didn't have great expectations for him as the OC.
But he's been dealt a horrible hand by dealer Gettleman. And expecting him to build an offense around around a poor QB and a junior college OL is pretty laughable.
Maybe I'm wrong and Kitchens will have the magic potion to make chicken salad. I doubt it, but now he's on the clock...
Jerrrahhh will invite him for Thanksgiving I'm sure
Yep and Graham better pay attention.
agree'd, I always felt he was sent back here to sabotage.
Quote:
complaining that Garrett was not the only problem, it's Judge, the O-line etc. Of course it is. Lots of things need to be fixed. Mara should be exploring GM candidates now. When the Giants are done playing for the year, he can give DG the news and start interviewing. Let the new GM decide what he thinks of Judge and Jones. Draft O-line and edge high in the draft. Doesn't sound too complicated.
EXactly, For once build the damn foundation of a team: Offense and Defense lines, then grab the skill players
I'm with you montana
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
He should’ve been let go earlier in the season.
He never should’ve been allowed to remain beyond the bye week.
This was a disaster with Mara’s fingerprints all over it.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
You can’t possibly think this was funny or worth typing out.
DG on the other hand is gone at the end of the season and it is paramount that the Maras go outside their comfort zone and don't promote from within
I agree that I think Mara will show great patience in keeping Judge short of a total end of year collapse with divisional blowouts.
The issue with the "outside" GM thinking is what really changes? Judge is still here. What happens if they disagree on the roster or roster construction? It is a messy situation that unfortunately may need to get more messy before the house cleaning occurs. Judge needs to show something if he is going to be paired with a GM imo.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
Tried the corner and missed- ball 4, ball 8, ball 12- how can guys lay pitches so close..
Fail!
None of this spells out a change to winning football. Hard to know what the Giants need except the obvious interior offensive lineman.There have been personality clashes amongst the o coaching staff for two years with no real resolution or improvement. Garrett was middle management who usually take the heat but changes there rarely result in long term improvement.
I said it before, “I’ll not live to see a Giant team with a winning record”. Doesn’t mean I know how to fix it but I wish someone could.
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I think Garrett needed to go. But, I'm also pointing out more needs to change, and will, and Judge is trying to get out in front of it. Clear as day.
Are you expecting any other changes before the end of the season?
No, I think this was probably the one bullet they had in the chamber. There's no reinforcements coming, the young bucks on the roster need to give it all they've got. Kitchens needs to open it up and get them playing more and thinking less.
BB: I told you not to call me once I gave you what you asked for…
Judge: remember how you told me to sell myself as a CEO and just hire high profile Re-treads to mask my inadequacies and have easy targets to fire when the heat got hot? I’ve already had to fire 2 and I am getting scared. What do I do? I know they are coming for me. I’m so scared.
BB: [silence]
Judge: please Mr Belichick, I know you’re there. I didn’t a click or a dial tone. Do I hear you chuckling? I’m sorry, I meant are you chocking? Are you ok? I will call 911 for you.
BB: I’m ok. You are not. I told you there will come a time we have to say goodbye. This is it.
I will note that Kitchens was calling the plays for the 20-6 slopfest against the Browns last year when we went with Colt. Maybe he's learned some lessons, maybe he hasn't. If he can make chicken salad out this more power to him.
I am interested to see what Kitchens cooks up.
Quote:
In comment 15464693 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
that Judge went into the game thinking the gameplan would be a little more agressive or sifferent from how Garrett was actually calling the games?
If the HC is going into the game with no idea of what to expect, but simply hoping for something, he should be the one fired today. Garrett worked for him.
thats not what i said..
I said is it possible him and garrett discussed the gameplan during the week, come up with the gameplan and Garretts playcalling doesnt reflect what they discussed?
Judge is standing next to him on the sidelines during the game. If Judge is not seeing what he expected to see then he needs to be talking to him.
I don't think it is likely Judge was clear about what he wanted and then Garrett simply went out and did something else.
Quote:
now with freddie kitchens calling the plays?
with 50% pressure rates...not a chance. This is just judge trying to save his ass.
Absolutely. But isn't Judge the Head Coach? Doesn't he have veto power over offensive game plans? He is just as responsible, especially with his ultra-conservative, play not to lose team direction.
Garrett was a bad OC, but who can possibly make that offense work with Gettleman's offensive line? Solder? Hernandez? Neither of them could even get on another team's roster.
Fuck "class." This team is horrific.
Really? He's custom fit for John Mara. Ties to the organization and he's bad at his job. Just like the Giants.
Fuck.... you guys get a random thought in your head and just run with it
"must be true because I thought of it"
"He is and idiot"
- Baker Mayfield.
Whose goal? .... yours?
Quote:
In comment 15464556 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 15464520 japanhead said:
Quote:
The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
He won the game in a big upset where he hadn't played in a long time; admitted to hyper ventilating while in the huddle ; and threw some clutch passes down the stretch to extend drives and win the game. He did well all things considered. He didn't throw for 400 yards and have 4 TDs while doing it is the problem now?
Quote:
clean fookin house.
Whose goal? .... yours?
Yes, the on display product is historically abysmal with no end in sight. Are you happy watching it?
Considering that the Giants are bottom 5 in most offensive categories, it would be more difficult to do worse.
Quote:
In comment 15464433 JonC said:
Quote:
clean fookin house.
Whose goal? .... yours?
Yes, the on display product is historically abysmal with no end in sight. Are you happy watching it?
no but cleaning house again is dumb so shut up.
Quote:
In comment 15464892 short lease said:
Quote:
In comment 15464433 JonC said:
Quote:
clean fookin house.
Whose goal? .... yours?
Yes, the on display product is historically abysmal with no end in sight. Are you happy watching it?
no but cleaning house again is dumb so shut up.
A mirror for the thought process in the building.
Quote:
In comment 15464577 Debaser said:
Quote:
In comment 15464556 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 15464520 japanhead said:
Quote:
The fact that mCCoy is balling out in Arizona now and is 2-1 since Kyler is hurt should put some of that to rest.
How come McCoy didn't ball out when he was here? Think it might have had something to do with our scheme?
He won the game in a big upset where he hadn't played in a long time; admitted to hyper ventilating while in the huddle ; and threw some clutch passes down the stretch to extend drives and win the game. He did well all things considered. He didn't throw for 400 yards and have 4 TDs while doing it is the problem now?
You said it. He passed for 328 and 2 TDs this year on the Cards against Seattle
Last year with us his stats were garbage. Yeah he had a couple nice passes but barely had 100 yards. You're saying scheme has nothing to do with it?
Be careful Jon. This dude lists his occupation as "nerd killer." Sounds like a real tough guy.
Fuck.... you guys get a random thought in your head and just run with it
"must be true because I thought of it"
Im sure this is not news, but if you are looking for rational thought, BBI the day after a Giants loss AND the firing of an OC is not the place to look....I mean not by a LONG shot:).
Because Baker Mayfield’s numbers drastically improved in a similar situation after Kitchens took over the play calling mid season. That’s how he got the head coaching job in the first place. Doesn’t guarantee it will happen here, but there is a history.
He's still under contract, and collecting a check with John Mara's signature on it, but he'll be doing so from home.
He could technically be reassigned, but that rarely happens
Will Hernandez and Nate Solder how to pass block?
His audition as O.C. will depend upon it.
Gettleman is 70 and I believe I heard on Papa's podcast that he's in the last year of his contract. There is no way on God's green Earth that he will be coming back. In some ways, similar to Garrett, Gettleman is the free pound of flesh to throw to the fans for Mara.
But, the real question here, what about Abrams? If there is to be real change in this org, you need to send him packing and have Chris Mara exit his position. Otherwise, it's a shell game.
Gettleman isn't the guy you should be worrying about if it's change you want.