Finally someone in the media is saying something. I hope more people expose this guy while they try to toss Jason Garrett to the wolves to deflect. Chad Forbes Twitter - ( New Window )
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
This is my take. He's part of the family, given a title, and collects a paycheck.
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Then give him the food-and-beverage job. He doesn't need to be VP of Player Personnel in name or deed, and whether or not he actually has any influence, it gives the appearance of influence.
eric, did you not hear the raanan podcast last season
where he specifically noted that davis webb, adam bisnowty, and mykkele thompson were all specifically chris mara picks?
no one here is saying that chris mara is secretly running the entire draft behind the scenes. just that he is one of a number of voices in the room who is unqualified and has bad ideas and consistently gets things wrong, but since he is director of player personnel and an owner, he gets listened to and is never held to account.
I love how he's seen as the problem with the team and yet no one can point to an actual decision he made.
Many of the poor decisions made can be put at the feet of DG. Chris Mara didn't hire Shurmur. Or draft Barkley at #2. Or resign OBJ to a large contract.
I blame John Mara for the decision to hire Garret as the OC.
CM job is to organize all the information scouts gather about players both college and pro and give it to the GM. It’s not like DG actually scouts a lot of players himself. The rosters have been crap for 10 years now. Two GMs. He’s the binding tie.
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
I'm not sure if this counts as evidence, but there were reports that when McAdoo tried to make a case to trade up to get Mahomes, he was told the Giants already had their eyes on the best QB in the draft - Davis Webb.
Ranaan confirmed the story and said that sources told him that Chris Mara was really high on Webb. Take that for what it's worth (probably not much), but the fact that an owner would be in personnel meetings and not have input is pretty unlikely. At the very least, it gives the appearance of unaccountability. I mean, who's firing Chris Mara?
Chris Mara is the director of player personnel. Nephew Tim McDonnell was just promoted to co-director of player personnel. How does having 2 of the 3 top talent evaluators in the entire organization being in the Mara family not matter? You think this fosters accountability? It is an absolute joke and utter disgrace. Whether they are just titles or not the reality is that undeserving members of the Mara family occupy significant roles for this team in the ver positions which are failing the most.
CM job is to organize all the information scouts gather about players both college and pro and give it to the GM. It’s not like DG actually scouts a lot of players himself. The rosters have been crap for 10 years now. Two GMs. He’s the binding tie.
Nope. That's Chris Pettit's job. There have been tons of articles and interviews on that subject. Pettit is the Director of College Scouting. He sets up the board and assigns the scouts.
Chris Mara is the director of player personnel. Nephew Tim McDonnell was just promoted to co-director of player personnel. How does having 2 of the 3 top talent evaluators in the entire organization being in the Mara family not matter? You think this fosters accountability? It is an absolute joke and utter disgrace. Whether they are just titles or not the reality is that undeserving members of the Mara family occupy significant roles for this team in the ver positions which are failing the most.
It needs to change.
Unless you can back up your claim with some sort of evidence that Chris has more say than Gettleman and Judge, you are just posting your opinion. I never even read/seen an interview of Chris and what he actually does.
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
with the Giants. Look around the league. The overwhelming majority of teams have this dynamic. But somehow, only the Giants are wrong for having family members work for the team. The issues for the Giants go far deeper than nepotism. Comical.
where he specifically noted that davis webb, adam bisnowty, and mykkele thompson were all specifically chris mara picks?
no one here is saying that chris mara is secretly running the entire draft behind the scenes. just that he is one of a number of voices in the room who is unqualified and has bad ideas and consistently gets things wrong, but since he is director of player personnel and an owner, he gets listened to and is never held to account.
this right here. He's making decisions and just imagine if one of those draft picks was a contributing player now. One of the main problems on the team is depth.
CM job is to organize all the information scouts gather about players both college and pro and give it to the GM. It’s not like DG actually scouts a lot of players himself. The rosters have been crap for 10 years now. Two GMs. He’s the binding tie.
Nope. That's Chris Pettit's job. There have been tons of articles and interviews on that subject. Pettit is the Director of College Scouting. He sets up the board and assigns the scouts.
His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
John Mara is the problem and until someone not named Mara is making the final decisions this team will continue being a laughingstock. This is history repeating itself and it wasn't until an outsider was brought in with total control that fortunes were reversed. They could make Lombardi, Landry and Belichick the coaches and John Maras would screw it up. Until John is neutered we sit in shit
I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
Except this isn’t true. Chris Mara has had essentially the same job since 2003.
For example, he should not have a say in player personnel because he is not qualified to do those things...the bigger problem is the appearance that it gives off and appearances are VERY important. When you are trying to land the big fish GM you don't want to give that candidate ANY reason to believe his decisions on players will be trumped by one of the owners. It's just a really bad look and that alone is enough of a reason to get him the hell out of the player personnel department.
I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
Except this isn’t true. Chris Mara has had essentially the same job since 2003.
He was prmoted to SVP in 2011, which does happen to coincide with a precipitous drop in talent. Not suggesting that Chris is the cause of that, but he certainly hasn't been the solution.
His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
Except this isn’t true. Chris Mara has had essentially the same job since 2003.
His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
Oh I agree with you 100%. But Chris Mara is emblematic of the problems. The Maras are too involved in football decisions. My issue is trying to blame one or the other. They all are to blame. Absolving Chris of blame and pinning everything on John is fine but i don’t think fair. They all stink.
His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
Oh I agree with you 100%. But Chris Mara is emblematic of the problems. The Maras are too involved in football decisions. My issue is trying to blame one or the other. They all are to blame. Absolving Chris of blame and pinning everything on John is fine but i don’t think fair. They all stink.
'The Giants acquired several outstanding players in the four NFL drafts since Pettit assumed his current position. Running back Saquon Barkley, the team's first-round choice in 2018, set numerous franchise records, was the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year and is the only player in Giants history to rush for more than 1,000 yards in each of his first two seasons. In 2019, the Giants selected quarterback Daniel Jones sixth overall. Jones' two-year totals are 907 attempts, 564 completions (62.2%) for 5,970 yards, 35 touchdowns and 22 interceptions. The passes, completions and yardage totals are the most in franchise history through 27 games for a player who began his career with the Giants.'
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
Is anyone really arguing that Chris is THE problem? I think most of us are pointing out that his position is emblematic of the larger problem - that there is a lack of accountability in ownership, and nothing really changes until operations are run by someone outside the family. Chris Mara being SVP of Player Personnel over a decade of absolutely terrible personnel moves is a big part of the overall problem. But the bottom line is that John Mara will do nothing about it.
I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
Except this isn’t true. Chris Mara has had essentially the same job since 2003.
No, he was promoted in 2011 Bio - ( New Window )
“Chris Mara joined the Giants as Vice President of Player Evaluation on July 29, 2003.” That’s the same job with a different title.
I thought I read once that they basically have him and any of his underlings do their own scouting for contrarian purposes to the work done by the actual professionals
Which in my eyes meant they let him collect a paycheck and do work that nobody actually uses
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
I think you’re spot on. I’ve actually tried to research what, exactly, Chris Mara does and I haven’t found a damn thing. I think his job title is just that- an empty job title to justify a paycheck.
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Agree and saying the same thing on a different thread started by the OP
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
I think you’re spot on. I’ve actually tried to research what, exactly, Chris Mara does and I haven’t found a damn thing. I think his job title is just that- an empty job title to justify a paycheck.
I imagine he is involved to some degree but more of just another guy in the room, and not a real voice. Maybe they even throw him a bone when they also happen to like and pick a guy he really likes and it gets out there publicly. But his role is more of an empty title that gets copied on emails, gets to join meetings and every now then is given free reign to go to a horse race versus helping out more...
If Chris Pettit is the Director of College Scouting
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
with the Giants. Look around the league. The overwhelming majority of teams have this dynamic. But somehow, only the Giants are wrong for having family members work for the team. The issues for the Giants go far deeper than nepotism. Comical.
Its not that nepotism cant work. Its just that its clearly not working for the Giants.
But in the NFL you can fail and still remain profitable so there are little consequences.
Either way its a question that should be posed directly to John at the end of the year. I for one think the fans deserve an answer.
I think Chris Mara pretty much just has front row seats
teased that they are doing a show on the FO problems at the end of the season. The one thing he let out was that you wont believe how many voices there are in the room making decisions.
Eric, here is the one issue I have with the theory...
that the decisions are all Gettleman's and John Mara's...
If Chris Mara just wanted a pay check, when why is his role related to player personnel? He could be VP of marketing, or anything else within the organization and get paid a huge salary.
My other belief is there is intent behind keeping him from the microphone and from the public. Keeping him behind the scenes keeps his fingerprints off of the bad decisions which makes it much harder to fire him. If he was the GM, at some point he would have to be fired.
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Just think about what the most likely scenario is.
*We know at one time Chris Mara was actively trying to become the GM.
*Neither John or Chris have ever done anything else with their lives except this (as far as I know). They live and breath Giants football.
I'll bet they basically run football operations, but don't want anyone to know it. So they hire a familiar face as GM who is well-versed in company culture/will play by their rules and be the sacrificial lamb if things go south. He will be the official face and voice of all the front office transactions and receive the credit/blame/paycheck. Abrams is the perfect replacement for Gettleman.
teased that they are doing a show on the FO problems at the end of the season. The one thing he let out was that you wont believe how many voices there are in the room making decisions.
That extends to the coaching staff too: way too many cooks in the kitchen. It has the opposite affect of what it intends.
RE: Eric, here is the one issue I have with the theory...
that the decisions are all Gettleman's and John Mara's...
If Chris Mara just wanted a pay check, when why is his role related to player personnel? He could be VP of marketing, or anything else within the organization and get paid a huge salary.
My other belief is there is intent behind keeping him from the microphone and from the public. Keeping him behind the scenes keeps his fingerprints off of the bad decisions which makes it much harder to fire him. If he was the GM, at some point he would have to be fired.
Colonel Mustard in the ballroom with the lead pipe...
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Just think about what the most likely scenario is.
*We know at one time Chris Mara was actively trying to become the GM.
*Neither John or Chris have ever done anything else with their lives except this (as far as I know). They live and breath Giants football.
I'll bet they basically run football operations, but don't want anyone to know it. So they hire a familiar face as GM who is well-versed in company culture/will play by their rules and be the sacrificial lamb if things go south. He will be the official face and voice of all the front office transactions and receive the credit/blame/paycheck. Abrams is the perfect replacement for Gettleman.
I think I saw you on the history channel earlier today talking about what really happened that dark day in Dallas TX with Kennedy...
I love how he's seen as the problem with the team and yet no one can point to an actual decision he made.
Many of the poor decisions made can be put at the feet of DG. Chris Mara didn't hire Shurmur. Or draft Barkley at #2. Or resign OBJ to a large contract.
I blame John Mara for the decision to hire Garret as the OC.
Agree. For all the speculative bitching about Chris Mara I have yet to see any real information about his role, his place in the hierarchy or any decisions that he owns.
teased that they are doing a show on the FO problems at the end of the season. The one thing he let out was that you wont believe how many voices there are in the room making decisions.
Ron - was it possible they said how many people are in the room but with no real voices?
teased that they are doing a show on the FO problems at the end of the season. The one thing he let out was that you wont believe how many voices there are in the room making decisions.
Ron - was it possible they said how many people are in the room but with no real voices?
The episode is not out yet. He said he is collecting info and will record it at the end of the season. But he made it sound like there sure are a lot of chefs in the kitchen.
His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
What are the “real problems”? You keep writing it, so tell us….
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Just think about what the most likely scenario is.
*We know at one time Chris Mara was actively trying to become the GM.
*Neither John or Chris have ever done anything else with their lives except this (as far as I know). They live and breath Giants football.
I'll bet they basically run football operations, but don't want anyone to know it. So they hire a familiar face as GM who is well-versed in company culture/will play by their rules and be the sacrificial lamb if things go south. He will be the official face and voice of all the front office transactions and receive the credit/blame/paycheck. Abrams is the perfect replacement for Gettleman.
I bet this is closer to the truth than many believe. I don't think the GMs are true figure heads, but its definitely GM by committee.
Chris Mara made football personnel his entire career, his one job outside the org was running an independent scouting company. Why would he take a back seat to some outsider that doesn't have his bloodlines?
Then you have Tim McDonnaugh coming along, who by accounts is actually a pretty talented guy. There is also a Tisch or two in the group,
So how does it work. He goes to his brother and reassigns him to the food and beverage department? Does Chris then say we’ll you’re hiring the coaches and GM so maybe I should be in your position and make those calls. Does another Mara want to take charge.
I would like to know how Wellington left things. Can the Tisch’s intervene or is their family just responsible for finances and other aspect?
never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Just think about what the most likely scenario is.
*We know at one time Chris Mara was actively trying to become the GM.
*Neither John or Chris have ever done anything else with their lives except this (as far as I know). They live and breath Giants football.
I'll bet they basically run football operations, but don't want anyone to know it. So they hire a familiar face as GM who is well-versed in company culture/will play by their rules and be the sacrificial lamb if things go south. He will be the official face and voice of all the front office transactions and receive the credit/blame/paycheck. Abrams is the perfect replacement for Gettleman.
I bet this is closer to the truth than many believe. I don't think the GMs are true figure heads, but its definitely GM by committee.
Chris Mara made football personnel his entire career, his one job outside the org was running an independent scouting company. Why would he take a back seat to some outsider that doesn't have his bloodlines?
Then you have Tim McDonnaugh coming along, who by accounts is actually a pretty talented guy. There is also a Tisch or two in the group,
The last time I looked at the org chart the Tisch's are over on the business side. They don't have any impact on what we're seeing on the field, so as a fan I couldn't care less what they do.
A lot of people are down-playing any possibility of Chris Mara having a significant role. I think Jimmy Googs must be a Mara himself, he seems so invested in trying to deflect even the mere possibility of this.
What we have here, though, isn't just BBI speculation anymore, but an actual member of the media calling Chris Mara out. It carries more weight.
Fact remains, his title changed to senior VP of player personnel at the same time the team's personnel and fortunes slid straight into the abyss. The other names and faces in the front office have changed except this one.
If we can point to actual wasted picks like Webb as being tied to Chris Mara, that proves the guy is making roster decisions, and then it's just a matter of how much.
Forbes straight up calls Gettleman a shield for Chris Mara, meaning he's saying Chris Mara is the one calling the shots on personnel. That's pretty strong language if Chris Mara is merely drawing a paycheck, as some people really want us to believe, or if he's just a voice among many in the room.
But it's consistent given Chris Mara's career path, and the fact he's tried to be a NFL GM twice.
is "the problem" theory either. He's basically Linda McCartney in Wings. He's on stage, but most of the time his mic is off and his instrument isn't plugged in.
Stubbs - I can assure you I am not a Mara. But I am happy to
debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
RE: Stubbs - I can assure you I am not a Mara. But I am happy to
debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
You say that as if even a 5th grader couldn't connect the obvious dots.
Forbes said Gettleman was the shield. Well, the team had sucked too many years with Reese out front, so the Maras needed a new shield. Gettleman, who had been fired from the Panthers, decided to take the gig, knowing he had some guard rails in place.
Like I said before, Gettleman isn't guiltless. He wasted a top 10 pick on a RB the year before he became Giants GM, so it was already in his DNA to go for Barkley. It probably didn't take the Maras much convincing either, as they were all in on another run with Eli.
Before you say "LOL conspiracy theory", people are pointing out draft picks reportedly made by Mara, so we're basically arguing over at the level of input he has at this point.
Whatever the level may end up being, anybody who drafted Davis Webb shouldn't be involved in personnel.
Let me throw the question back at you, Googs. Give me a good reason why Chris Mara should remain in his role. I'm interested in hearing the logic of how a senior VP of player personnel doesn't actually have impact on the personnel.
RE: Stubbs - I can assure you I am not a Mara. But I am happy to
debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
Keep in mind, as I said before, this isn't just a BBI/reddit chat anymore. We have an actual member of the media using quite strong language to define the relationship here.
RE: RE: Stubbs - I can assure you I am not a Mara. But I am happy to
debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
Keep in mind, as I said before, this isn't just a BBI/reddit chat anymore. We have an actual member of the media using quite strong language to define the relationship here.
I have no idea who Chad Forbes is. I just looked him up and he seems to pretty much run a twitter account and is on some podcasts? Also grew up a Giants fan, sounds like he reads BBI and just wrote something about Chris Mara. Looking at some his tweets, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a regular poster here the way he writes.
RE: RE: Stubbs - I can assure you I am not a Mara. But I am happy to
debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
You say that as if even a 5th grader couldn't connect the obvious dots.
Forbes said Gettleman was the shield. Well, the team had sucked too many years with Reese out front, so the Maras needed a new shield. Gettleman, who had been fired from the Panthers, decided to take the gig, knowing he had some guard rails in place.
Like I said before, Gettleman isn't guiltless. He wasted a top 10 pick on a RB the year before he became Giants GM, so it was already in his DNA to go for Barkley. It probably didn't take the Maras much convincing either, as they were all in on another run with Eli.
Before you say "LOL conspiracy theory", people are pointing out draft picks reportedly made by Mara, so we're basically arguing over at the level of input he has at this point.
Whatever the level may end up being, anybody who drafted Davis Webb shouldn't be involved in personnel.
Let me throw the question back at you, Googs. Give me a good reason why Chris Mara should remain in his role. I'm interested in hearing the logic of how a senior VP of player personnel doesn't actually have impact on the personnel.
I thought 5th grade was the right starting point. Is it Middle School?
Again, all you bring is conspiracy theories. So are you saying it's time for a new shield now? If the next guy is 67 years old and a former NY Giant employee, maybe I will listen closer but no promises.
And if Chris Mara is in charge, why are you saying Getts picked Barkely? Isn't Chris calling the shots in your hypothesis? And we have always been talking the level of input, you just haven't comprehended it. I said Chris probably gets a voice but it is akin to your's or mine on BBI...just a voice with nobody that matters listening.
And I am sure Chris has a big enough ego and can cause enough of a stink in the family that he can get almost any title he wants. But who really cares? Other than him and now you...oh and the media guy you kept thinking is playing some kind of deep throat/Watergate role.
Again, Chris Mara probably gets to sit in on every major personnel decision and get heard. At least for the ones that occur during a non-Triple Crown racing weekends. But that doesn't mean anyone is really listening or executing on his views.
RE: RE: RE: Stubbs - I can assure you I am not a Mara. But I am happy to
debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
Keep in mind, as I said before, this isn't just a BBI/reddit chat anymore. We have an actual member of the media using quite strong language to define the relationship here.
I have no idea who Chad Forbes is. I just looked him up and he seems to pretty much run a twitter account and is on some podcasts? Also grew up a Giants fan, sounds like he reads BBI and just wrote something about Chris Mara. Looking at some his tweets, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a regular poster here the way he writes.
He's a well known insider to the Giant organization. Been tied in for years...
Without more digging, it's hard to make the case that he's a huge problem. But the converse is also true - you can't really say he does nothing either. We just don't know. We know he fancies himself a personnel guy, that he has a fancy title, and that he owns 11% of the team ( or half that).
Regardless of what he actually does, it seems bad. It would probably be really annoying to put in 12 hour days breaking down film and have do-nothing silver spoon sitting around with a title you dream of having. And that's the good case scenario. That he just collects checks and is demoralizing for the staff.
The bad case scenario is much worse- that he has real input into decisions, that his presence destroys accountability and the chain of command.
And this is not to absolve Gettleman at all. Gettleman is such an arrogant moron, that I'd prefer Mara to be the GM over him
Is at a minimum part of the problem. The talent on this roster took a nose dive as soon as he took an executive personnel role with the organization 10 years ago.
There’s really no way to spin it. Either he’s terrible at his job or he’s a figurehead wasting the role when someone else more talented and driven could help the team in the role.
Stop over stating the other sides position to make it easier to tear down. No one is saying he’s the only problem, or that he’s running the show. But I think he has no input or even a minor input is naïve
And to the other guy saying Tischs are only on the business side. There is a Charles Tish who is a football operations assistant. Maybe not a super high profile job, but big enough to be listed in their front office website. Link - ( New Window )
Stop over stating the other sides position to make it easier to tear down. No one is saying he’s the only problem, or that he’s running the show. But I think he has no input or even a minor input is naïve
And to the other guy saying Tischs are only on the business side. There is a Charles Tish who is a football operations assistant. Maybe not a super high profile job, but big enough to be listed in their front office website. Link - ( New Window )
I am not overstating it. Stubbs is suggesting the media guy is right and that Chris Mara is calling the shits on personnel as he wrote a few posts above. After an awful loss mind you.
I will submit that I should not go as far as saying Chris Mara has no input. But I will suggest it is so minor with respect to the depths of the issues facing the Giants that it is immaterial. He is an owner with a title. If he was driving anything important and/or doing it in a fashion that was detrimental to the organization then any logical person or process would rectify it. If there is no one that is logical enough in the organization to notice and rectify it, then Chris Mara is absolutely the least of our problems.
He’s not gonna fire himself, as long as they continue to make money, which would be impossible not to do, it will take a lot to oust him. But 10 years of futility and media pressure might just do the trick
He’s not gonna fire himself, as long as they continue to make money, which would be impossible not to do, it will take a lot to oust him. But 10 years of futility and media pressure might just do the trick
Good luck with that. He would lose the title and still do the same thing that we don’t know he does as a plain old owner.
Focus discussion on what matters that maybe can change the future, and that’s what GM can replace Getts....
This isnt your out of luck nephew needing a paycheck. He’s an owner - hus wallet is just fine. He’s involved in personnel - they arent even hiding it. Player personnel. What else could it mean? An owner with say in personnel. End of story.
Now- do we really think he’s low on the totem poll?
Again - you dont need an insider pass. It’s common sense.
He’s not gonna fire himself, as long as they continue to make money, which would be impossible not to do, it will take a lot to oust him. But 10 years of futility and media pressure might just do the trick
Good luck with that. He would lose the title and still do the same thing that we don’t know he does as a plain old owner.
Focus discussion on what matters that maybe can change the future, and that’s what GM can replace Getts....
I think we are capable of having multiple discussions on different topics
As to which discussion is more likely to impact the future, maybe Karnak knows that
His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
Getting all of the Maras, most importantly John, out of any sort of football decisions is 100% a plus. You can say we’re speculating that he has say. But you’re also speculating that he’s “just collecting a paycheck and racing horses.”
He’s not gonna fire himself, as long as they continue to make money, which would be impossible not to do, it will take a lot to oust him. But 10 years of futility and media pressure might just do the trick
Good luck with that. He would lose the title and still do the same thing that we don’t know he does as a plain old owner.
Focus discussion on what matters that maybe can change the future, and that’s what GM can replace Getts....
I think we are capable of having multiple discussions on different topics
As to which discussion is more likely to impact the future, maybe Karnak knows that
We are and happy to do so. Let me know how Chris Mara is negatively impacting the Giants or anymore than any other Front Office personnel? Until there is something worth talking about here as to how he drives any bad decisions this is a nothing topic on the eve of a bad loss and people looking to hang someone...
RE: RE: RE: Stubbs - I can assure you I am not a Mara. But I am happy to
debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
You say that as if even a 5th grader couldn't connect the obvious dots.
Forbes said Gettleman was the shield. Well, the team had sucked too many years with Reese out front, so the Maras needed a new shield. Gettleman, who had been fired from the Panthers, decided to take the gig, knowing he had some guard rails in place.
Like I said before, Gettleman isn't guiltless. He wasted a top 10 pick on a RB the year before he became Giants GM, so it was already in his DNA to go for Barkley. It probably didn't take the Maras much convincing either, as they were all in on another run with Eli.
Before you say "LOL conspiracy theory", people are pointing out draft picks reportedly made by Mara, so we're basically arguing over at the level of input he has at this point.
Whatever the level may end up being, anybody who drafted Davis Webb shouldn't be involved in personnel.
Let me throw the question back at you, Googs. Give me a good reason why Chris Mara should remain in his role. I'm interested in hearing the logic of how a senior VP of player personnel doesn't actually have impact on the personnel.
I thought 5th grade was the right starting point. Is it Middle School?
Again, all you bring is conspiracy theories. So are you saying it's time for a new shield now? If the next guy is 67 years old and a former NY Giant employee, maybe I will listen closer but no promises.
And if Chris Mara is in charge, why are you saying Getts picked Barkely? Isn't Chris calling the shots in your hypothesis? And we have always been talking the level of input, you just haven't comprehended it. I said Chris probably gets a voice but it is akin to your's or mine on BBI...just a voice with nobody that matters listening.
And I am sure Chris has a big enough ego and can cause enough of a stink in the family that he can get almost any title he wants. But who really cares? Other than him and now you...oh and the media guy you kept thinking is playing some kind of deep throat/Watergate role.
Again, Chris Mara probably gets to sit in on every major personnel decision and get heard. At least for the ones that occur during a non-Triple Crown racing weekends. But that doesn't mean anyone is really listening or executing on his views.
I think the reports I've heard where the GM has one board and Chris Mara has another are closer to the truth. In this case, Gettleman wanted Barkley and Chris had no objection to it, so Barkley was picked.
The idea that Chris would not be listened to, as the senior VP of personnel and as an owner, boggles the mind. His voice IS a voice that matters by virtue of him being, you know, an owner.
And yes, if Chris Mara really is calling the shots, if he is using Gettleman as a shield, well that's the whole point of a shield. Discard him and get a new shield when he's no longer able to deflect attacks.
Once again, it's not a conspiracy theory when someone you admit is plugged in is saying it. I still think you're a Mara or something, because you seem overly invested in downplaying something that at the very least, you'd reasonably have to admit is fishy.
He’s not gonna fire himself, as long as they continue to make money, which would be impossible not to do, it will take a lot to oust him. But 10 years of futility and media pressure might just do the trick
Good luck with that. He would lose the title and still do the same thing that we don’t know he does as a plain old owner.
Focus discussion on what matters that maybe can change the future, and that’s what GM can replace Getts....
I think we are capable of having multiple discussions on different topics
As to which discussion is more likely to impact the future, maybe Karnak knows that
We are and happy to do so. Let me know how Chris Mara is negatively impacting the Giants or anymore than any other Front Office personnel? Until there is something worth talking about here as to how he drives any bad decisions this is a nothing topic on the eve of a bad loss and people looking to hang someone...
Let's revise this question too.
Assuming you're correct, and Chris Mara is 100% innocent, and has nothing whatsoever to do with personnel in any way, shape or form (this is basically your argument, right?), why should he remain in that seat as a do-nothing when the Giants could use some actual expertise there?
I'm surprised you're wasting your time arguing the sky is blue.
He's an owner with a personnel job in the front office. He's rich. He doesn't need to "collect a paycheck". He's there because he's involved in personnel.
To argue against that is the conspiracy theory. Not the other way around. The only question is HOW MUCH say does he have? No one knows because that's the way the Maras want it.
They have the perfect job. They just have to keep it that way. Keep yourselves at arms distance from the fans. Filter your decisions through a fully functioning "front office" that is nothing more than friends of family filling seats, allowing the same decision-making structure to operate behind the curtain. It's why no Giants GM gets fired unless absolutely necessary (fan revolt). They aren't even close to the primary decision maker. The Maras can't in good conscience fire the GM when they know full well it isn't his fault. He's getting coffee and donuts, signing off on scouts timecards to ADP and talking to reporters. All the bureaucratic nonsense the Maras don't want to do.
It's my story and I'm sticking to it. I don't even blame them for doing it, it's their business and they have 4 Lombardi's. I think they'll turn it around eventually.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He’s an owner, not an employee
Assuming you're correct, and Chris Mara is 100% innocent, and has nothing whatsoever to do with personnel in any way, shape or form (this is basically your argument, right?), why should he remain in that seat as a do-nothing when the Giants could use some actual expertise there?
Not debating Chris Mara's innocence. Debating that he doesn't really matter in the overall scheme here.
I have said numerous times would rather not see family intertwined in football ops. But also have commented, over and over again, that involvement is not calling the shots like you are suggesting. Chris has a title, gets info, develops opinions, and has a voice...but the GM drives the bus. And Getts as GM is driving it nowhere.
As to whether Chris Mara should remain in his seat...I already mentioned would rather the family don't intertwine but I really don't care as he isn't as relevant as you make him out to be.
It's why no Giants GM gets fired unless absolutely necessary (fan revolt). They aren't even close to the primary decision maker. The Maras can't in good conscience fire the GM when they know full well it isn't his fault. He's getting coffee and donuts, signing off on scouts timecards to ADP and talking to reporters.
If you really think this, then the sky isn't blue in your world...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He’s an owner, not an employee
Not debating Chris Mara's innocence. Debating that he doesn't really matter in the overall scheme here.
I have said numerous times would rather not see family intertwined in football ops. But also have commented, over and over again, that involvement is not calling the shots like you are suggesting. Chris has a title, gets info, develops opinions, and has a voice...but the GM drives the bus. And Getts as GM is driving it nowhere.
As to whether Chris Mara should remain in his seat...I already mentioned would rather the family don't intertwine but I really don't care as he isn't as relevant as you make him out to be.
I think a big part of the problem is that none of us know how big a voice Chris Mara has in personnel decisions, hence a lack of accountability, whether perceived or actual. You can say that voice isn't as loud as some think, I can say it is louder than most think, but who knows? And to me, that is a big part of the problem.
I'm not defending DG here, I hated the hire and he should have been gone by now, but what if Chris Mara is calling many of the shots, and the GM is the fall guy? Now you are correct in that it could happen whether Chris has the SVP title or not, but that is why we need an outsider to run ALL football ops.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He’s an owner, not an employee
I'm not defending DG here, I hated the hire and he should have been gone by now, but what if Chris Mara is calling many of the shots, and the GM is the fall guy? Now you are correct in that it could happen whether Chris has the SVP title or not, but that is why we need an outsider to run ALL football ops.
What you just described is a conspiracy theory. And I don't subscribe to them...
it's not just Chris Mara, it's Tim McDonnell who is
co-director of player personnel. Tim is a Mara on his mother's side. So you have two Maras in high player personnel positions, and our player personnel sucks. It's very hard to conclude that there is no connection. As someone said above, even if these are do-nothing jobs - then we need someone who does something.
RE: it's not just Chris Mara, it's Tim McDonnell who is
co-director of player personnel. Tim is a Mara on his mother's side. So you have two Maras in high player personnel positions, and our player personnel sucks. It's very hard to conclude that there is no connection. As someone said above, even if these are do-nothing jobs - then we need someone who does something.
Well, then how about a new General Manager? He/She can hire a new Assistant GM too.
RE: it's not just Chris Mara, it's Tim McDonnell who is
co-director of player personnel. Tim is a Mara on his mother's side. So you have two Maras in high player personnel positions, and our player personnel sucks. It's very hard to conclude that there is no connection. As someone said above, even if these are do-nothing jobs - then we need someone who does something.
my point in another thread was IF the Mara family wants a pay check from the organization, then why does it have to be tied to roster building? They could take some bullshit marketing job or create a VP of ANYTHING position.
The fact that the roles are somehow tied to player personnel is just too convenient.
RE: RE: it's not just Chris Mara, it's Tim McDonnell who is
co-director of player personnel. Tim is a Mara on his mother's side. So you have two Maras in high player personnel positions, and our player personnel sucks. It's very hard to conclude that there is no connection. As someone said above, even if these are do-nothing jobs - then we need someone who does something.
my point in another thread was IF the Mara family wants a pay check from the organization, then why does it have to be tied to roster building? They could take some bullshit marketing job or create a VP of ANYTHING position.
The fact that the roles are somehow tied to player personnel is just too convenient.
Chris thinks he's a football expert. He was a "scout" for the '86 and '90 teams, left to run some kind of scouting operation in 1994, then returned in 2003 as the VP of Player Evaluation.
It's impossible to say what his actual duties are in his current role, which is probably why some people have a problem with it. The Giants are a bad organization, and the last time that was true the Mara family were the primary culprits.
RE: it's not just Chris Mara, it's Tim McDonnell who is
co-director of player personnel. Tim is a Mara on his mother's side. So you have two Maras in high player personnel positions, and our player personnel sucks. It's very hard to conclude that there is no connection. As someone said above, even if these are do-nothing jobs - then we need someone who does something.
Tim McDonnel is definitely not a do nothing. By accounts he is a "rising star" and is the pre-emptive favorite to take over for John
RE: RE: RE: it's not just Chris Mara, it's Tim McDonnell who is
co-director of player personnel. Tim is a Mara on his mother's side. So you have two Maras in high player personnel positions, and our player personnel sucks. It's very hard to conclude that there is no connection. As someone said above, even if these are do-nothing jobs - then we need someone who does something.
my point in another thread was IF the Mara family wants a pay check from the organization, then why does it have to be tied to roster building? They could take some bullshit marketing job or create a VP of ANYTHING position.
The fact that the roles are somehow tied to player personnel is just too convenient.
Chris thinks he's a football expert. He was a "scout" for the '86 and '90 teams, left to run some kind of scouting operation in 1994, then returned in 2003 as the VP of Player Evaluation.
It's impossible to say what his actual duties are in his current role, which is probably why some people have a problem with it. The Giants are a bad organization, and the last time that was true the Mara family were the primary culprits.
You forgot the most important bit. That is, that he tried to be a GM *twice*.
I don't see a guy like this promoting himself in 2011 to a position that is co-equal to the GM - a position he's always wanted - and then "doing nothing". His promotion to Senior VP of Player Personnel coincides with the collapse of the player personnel.
Saying the buck stops with Gettleman is disingenuous. It's true Gettleman has made the team worse, as the team was better the day Reese was fired than it is now, but the fact remains the team was horrible when Reese was fired. In 2015, while this team was wallowing in misery, Gettleman's team was in the Superbowl. Gettleman is not the root cause of this situation.
We're really arguing over how much influence he has, not whether he has any or not. And even a little at this point means that he should be considered part of the problem.
And again, the point of this thread was that we have a guy in the media now who is pointing at him as THE problem.
RE: RE: RE: it's not just Chris Mara, it's Tim McDonnell who is
It's impossible to say what his actual duties are in his current role, which is probably why some people have a problem with it. The Giants are a bad organization, and the last time that was true the Mara family were the primary culprits.
The fact that it is not clear what his duties are or what his true role is...is actually part of the plan. The fact that it is unclear and that he has no true accountability means he really cannot be fired.
I think they like that we are to believe Chris just spends his time jerking off to pictures of horses.
The groups that the fans should really concern themselves with
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
yikes!!!
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
This is my take. He's part of the family, given a title, and collects a paycheck.
I doubt he's making decisions.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Then give him the food-and-beverage job. He doesn't need to be VP of Player Personnel in name or deed, and whether or not he actually has any influence, it gives the appearance of influence.
no one here is saying that chris mara is secretly running the entire draft behind the scenes. just that he is one of a number of voices in the room who is unqualified and has bad ideas and consistently gets things wrong, but since he is director of player personnel and an owner, he gets listened to and is never held to account.
Many of the poor decisions made can be put at the feet of DG. Chris Mara didn't hire Shurmur. Or draft Barkley at #2. Or resign OBJ to a large contract.
I blame John Mara for the decision to hire Garret as the OC.
None of this really know how much say Chris has it the day to day operations of this franchise.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
I'm not sure if this counts as evidence, but there were reports that when McAdoo tried to make a case to trade up to get Mahomes, he was told the Giants already had their eyes on the best QB in the draft - Davis Webb.
Ranaan confirmed the story and said that sources told him that Chris Mara was really high on Webb. Take that for what it's worth (probably not much), but the fact that an owner would be in personnel meetings and not have input is pretty unlikely. At the very least, it gives the appearance of unaccountability. I mean, who's firing Chris Mara?
It needs to change.
Nope. That's Chris Pettit's job. There have been tons of articles and interviews on that subject. Pettit is the Director of College Scouting. He sets up the board and assigns the scouts.
It needs to change.
Unless you can back up your claim with some sort of evidence that Chris has more say than Gettleman and Judge, you are just posting your opinion. I never even read/seen an interview of Chris and what he actually does.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
He's gone on radio shows to discuss the draft,as if he were the GM.I think it was Mad Dog Russo
He also goes to the Dan Jones Pro Day,Senior Bowl,etc.
Chris isn't hiring the GMs and coaches, it's John.
I get it, everyone is pissed at the situation. I could give two shits if they keep or fire Chris. But you guys are avoiding the bigger issues.
no one here is saying that chris mara is secretly running the entire draft behind the scenes. just that he is one of a number of voices in the room who is unqualified and has bad ideas and consistently gets things wrong, but since he is director of player personnel and an owner, he gets listened to and is never held to account.
this right here. He's making decisions and just imagine if one of those draft picks was a contributing player now. One of the main problems on the team is depth.
Quote:
CM job is to organize all the information scouts gather about players both college and pro and give it to the GM. It’s not like DG actually scouts a lot of players himself. The rosters have been crap for 10 years now. Two GMs. He’s the binding tie.
Nope. That's Chris Pettit's job. There have been tons of articles and interviews on that subject. Pettit is the Director of College Scouting. He sets up the board and assigns the scouts.
He should be fired too. He's done an abysmal job.
He is involved - ( New Window )
I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
Except this isn’t true. Chris Mara has had essentially the same job since 2003.
Chris isn't hiring the GMs and coaches, it's John.
I get it, everyone is pissed at the situation. I could give two shits if they keep or fire Chris. But you guys are avoiding the bigger issues.
That is 100% true, and John is the one who refuses to move Chris out of the personnel dept.
Quote:
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I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
Except this isn’t true. Chris Mara has had essentially the same job since 2003.
He was prmoted to SVP in 2011, which does happen to coincide with a precipitous drop in talent. Not suggesting that Chris is the cause of that, but he certainly hasn't been the solution.
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
Chris isn't hiring the GMs and coaches, it's John.
I get it, everyone is pissed at the situation. I could give two shits if they keep or fire Chris. But you guys are avoiding the bigger issues.
Eric,
Is it time for you to write another owners must pass on for the team to improve article?
Just asking
Quote:
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I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
Except this isn’t true. Chris Mara has had essentially the same job since 2003.
No, he was promoted in 2011
Bio - ( New Window )
Quote:
His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
Oh I agree with you 100%. But Chris Mara is emblematic of the problems. The Maras are too involved in football decisions. My issue is trying to blame one or the other. They all are to blame. Absolving Chris of blame and pinning everything on John is fine but i don’t think fair. They all stink.
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His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
Oh I agree with you 100%. But Chris Mara is emblematic of the problems. The Maras are too involved in football decisions. My issue is trying to blame one or the other. They all are to blame. Absolving Chris of blame and pinning everything on John is fine but i don’t think fair. They all stink.
'The Giants acquired several outstanding players in the four NFL drafts since Pettit assumed his current position. Running back Saquon Barkley, the team's first-round choice in 2018, set numerous franchise records, was the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year and is the only player in Giants history to rush for more than 1,000 yards in each of his first two seasons. In 2019, the Giants selected quarterback Daniel Jones sixth overall. Jones' two-year totals are 907 attempts, 564 completions (62.2%) for 5,970 yards, 35 touchdowns and 22 interceptions. The passes, completions and yardage totals are the most in franchise history through 27 games for a player who began his career with the Giants.'
LOL. LOL. LOL. Did his wife write that?
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
Is anyone really arguing that Chris is THE problem? I think most of us are pointing out that his position is emblematic of the larger problem - that there is a lack of accountability in ownership, and nothing really changes until operations are run by someone outside the family. Chris Mara being SVP of Player Personnel over a decade of absolutely terrible personnel moves is a big part of the overall problem. But the bottom line is that John Mara will do nothing about it.
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In comment 15464614 bradshaw44 said:
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I think it's been pointed out that the Giants started sucking exactly when Chris Mara was hired. So there is some correlation to his tenure and our sucking.
Except this isn’t true. Chris Mara has had essentially the same job since 2003.
No, he was promoted in 2011 Bio - ( New Window )
“Chris Mara joined the Giants as Vice President of Player Evaluation on July 29, 2003.” That’s the same job with a different title.
Which in my eyes meant they let him collect a paycheck and do work that nobody actually uses
You trolling?
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
I think you’re spot on. I’ve actually tried to research what, exactly, Chris Mara does and I haven’t found a damn thing. I think his job title is just that- an empty job title to justify a paycheck.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Agree and saying the same thing on a different thread started by the OP
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never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
I think you’re spot on. I’ve actually tried to research what, exactly, Chris Mara does and I haven’t found a damn thing. I think his job title is just that- an empty job title to justify a paycheck.
I imagine he is involved to some degree but more of just another guy in the room, and not a real voice. Maybe they even throw him a bone when they also happen to like and pick a guy he really likes and it gets out there publicly. But his role is more of an empty title that gets copied on emails, gets to join meetings and every now then is given free reign to go to a horse race versus helping out more...
Has it been verified that the Giants rated AVT ahead of Slater last year?
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Chris is just as much of an owner as John is
Its not that nepotism cant work. Its just that its clearly not working for the Giants.
But in the NFL you can fail and still remain profitable so there are little consequences.
Either way its a question that should be posed directly to John at the end of the year. I for one think the fans deserve an answer.
I share the same take as Eric. So far hasn't been a peep that he's made any decision of consequence to date.
If Chris Mara just wanted a pay check, when why is his role related to player personnel? He could be VP of marketing, or anything else within the organization and get paid a huge salary.
My other belief is there is intent behind keeping him from the microphone and from the public. Keeping him behind the scenes keeps his fingerprints off of the bad decisions which makes it much harder to fire him. If he was the GM, at some point he would have to be fired.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Just think about what the most likely scenario is.
*We know at one time Chris Mara was actively trying to become the GM.
*Neither John or Chris have ever done anything else with their lives except this (as far as I know). They live and breath Giants football.
I'll bet they basically run football operations, but don't want anyone to know it. So they hire a familiar face as GM who is well-versed in company culture/will play by their rules and be the sacrificial lamb if things go south. He will be the official face and voice of all the front office transactions and receive the credit/blame/paycheck. Abrams is the perfect replacement for Gettleman.
That extends to the coaching staff too: way too many cooks in the kitchen. It has the opposite affect of what it intends.
If Chris Mara just wanted a pay check, when why is his role related to player personnel? He could be VP of marketing, or anything else within the organization and get paid a huge salary.
My other belief is there is intent behind keeping him from the microphone and from the public. Keeping him behind the scenes keeps his fingerprints off of the bad decisions which makes it much harder to fire him. If he was the GM, at some point he would have to be fired.
Colonel Mustard in the ballroom with the lead pipe...
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never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Just think about what the most likely scenario is.
*We know at one time Chris Mara was actively trying to become the GM.
*Neither John or Chris have ever done anything else with their lives except this (as far as I know). They live and breath Giants football.
I'll bet they basically run football operations, but don't want anyone to know it. So they hire a familiar face as GM who is well-versed in company culture/will play by their rules and be the sacrificial lamb if things go south. He will be the official face and voice of all the front office transactions and receive the credit/blame/paycheck. Abrams is the perfect replacement for Gettleman.
I think I saw you on the history channel earlier today talking about what really happened that dark day in Dallas TX with Kennedy...
Many of the poor decisions made can be put at the feet of DG. Chris Mara didn't hire Shurmur. Or draft Barkley at #2. Or resign OBJ to a large contract.
I blame John Mara for the decision to hire Garret as the OC.
Agree. For all the speculative bitching about Chris Mara I have yet to see any real information about his role, his place in the hierarchy or any decisions that he owns.
Ron - was it possible they said how many people are in the room but with no real voices?
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teased that they are doing a show on the FO problems at the end of the season. The one thing he let out was that you wont believe how many voices there are in the room making decisions.
Ron - was it possible they said how many people are in the room but with no real voices?
The episode is not out yet. He said he is collecting info and will record it at the end of the season. But he made it sound like there sure are a lot of chefs in the kitchen.
thx
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His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
What are the “real problems”? You keep writing it, so tell us….
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never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Just think about what the most likely scenario is.
*We know at one time Chris Mara was actively trying to become the GM.
*Neither John or Chris have ever done anything else with their lives except this (as far as I know). They live and breath Giants football.
I'll bet they basically run football operations, but don't want anyone to know it. So they hire a familiar face as GM who is well-versed in company culture/will play by their rules and be the sacrificial lamb if things go south. He will be the official face and voice of all the front office transactions and receive the credit/blame/paycheck. Abrams is the perfect replacement for Gettleman.
I bet this is closer to the truth than many believe. I don't think the GMs are true figure heads, but its definitely GM by committee.
Chris Mara made football personnel his entire career, his one job outside the org was running an independent scouting company. Why would he take a back seat to some outsider that doesn't have his bloodlines?
Then you have Tim McDonnaugh coming along, who by accounts is actually a pretty talented guy. There is also a Tisch or two in the group,
I would like to know how Wellington left things. Can the Tisch’s intervene or is their family just responsible for finances and other aspect?
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In comment 15464515 Eric from BBI said:
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never seen on stitch of evidence that Chris Mara has any sort of veto power over the GM or head coach.
On the other hand, we have seen counter evidence that he is off with his horses when he should be at work.
IMO, Mara is a nepotism hire. He's collecting a paycheck.
If you're pissed, be mad at the two owners, the GM, and the head coach.
If you want Chris Mara fired, so be it, but I don't think he has any significant influence. I could be wrong, but someone would have to point to any evidence that suggests otherwise.
Just think about what the most likely scenario is.
*We know at one time Chris Mara was actively trying to become the GM.
*Neither John or Chris have ever done anything else with their lives except this (as far as I know). They live and breath Giants football.
I'll bet they basically run football operations, but don't want anyone to know it. So they hire a familiar face as GM who is well-versed in company culture/will play by their rules and be the sacrificial lamb if things go south. He will be the official face and voice of all the front office transactions and receive the credit/blame/paycheck. Abrams is the perfect replacement for Gettleman.
I bet this is closer to the truth than many believe. I don't think the GMs are true figure heads, but its definitely GM by committee.
Chris Mara made football personnel his entire career, his one job outside the org was running an independent scouting company. Why would he take a back seat to some outsider that doesn't have his bloodlines?
Then you have Tim McDonnaugh coming along, who by accounts is actually a pretty talented guy. There is also a Tisch or two in the group,
The last time I looked at the org chart the Tisch's are over on the business side. They don't have any impact on what we're seeing on the field, so as a fan I couldn't care less what they do.
A lot of people are down-playing any possibility of Chris Mara having a significant role. I think Jimmy Googs must be a Mara himself, he seems so invested in trying to deflect even the mere possibility of this.
What we have here, though, isn't just BBI speculation anymore, but an actual member of the media calling Chris Mara out. It carries more weight.
Fact remains, his title changed to senior VP of player personnel at the same time the team's personnel and fortunes slid straight into the abyss. The other names and faces in the front office have changed except this one.
If we can point to actual wasted picks like Webb as being tied to Chris Mara, that proves the guy is making roster decisions, and then it's just a matter of how much.
Forbes straight up calls Gettleman a shield for Chris Mara, meaning he's saying Chris Mara is the one calling the shots on personnel. That's pretty strong language if Chris Mara is merely drawing a paycheck, as some people really want us to believe, or if he's just a voice among many in the room.
But it's consistent given Chris Mara's career path, and the fact he's tried to be a NFL GM twice.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
You say that as if even a 5th grader couldn't connect the obvious dots.
Forbes said Gettleman was the shield. Well, the team had sucked too many years with Reese out front, so the Maras needed a new shield. Gettleman, who had been fired from the Panthers, decided to take the gig, knowing he had some guard rails in place.
Like I said before, Gettleman isn't guiltless. He wasted a top 10 pick on a RB the year before he became Giants GM, so it was already in his DNA to go for Barkley. It probably didn't take the Maras much convincing either, as they were all in on another run with Eli.
Before you say "LOL conspiracy theory", people are pointing out draft picks reportedly made by Mara, so we're basically arguing over at the level of input he has at this point.
Whatever the level may end up being, anybody who drafted Davis Webb shouldn't be involved in personnel.
Let me throw the question back at you, Googs. Give me a good reason why Chris Mara should remain in his role. I'm interested in hearing the logic of how a senior VP of player personnel doesn't actually have impact on the personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
Keep in mind, as I said before, this isn't just a BBI/reddit chat anymore. We have an actual member of the media using quite strong language to define the relationship here.
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debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
Keep in mind, as I said before, this isn't just a BBI/reddit chat anymore. We have an actual member of the media using quite strong language to define the relationship here.
I have no idea who Chad Forbes is. I just looked him up and he seems to pretty much run a twitter account and is on some podcasts? Also grew up a Giants fan, sounds like he reads BBI and just wrote something about Chris Mara. Looking at some his tweets, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a regular poster here the way he writes.
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debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
You say that as if even a 5th grader couldn't connect the obvious dots.
Forbes said Gettleman was the shield. Well, the team had sucked too many years with Reese out front, so the Maras needed a new shield. Gettleman, who had been fired from the Panthers, decided to take the gig, knowing he had some guard rails in place.
Like I said before, Gettleman isn't guiltless. He wasted a top 10 pick on a RB the year before he became Giants GM, so it was already in his DNA to go for Barkley. It probably didn't take the Maras much convincing either, as they were all in on another run with Eli.
Before you say "LOL conspiracy theory", people are pointing out draft picks reportedly made by Mara, so we're basically arguing over at the level of input he has at this point.
Whatever the level may end up being, anybody who drafted Davis Webb shouldn't be involved in personnel.
Let me throw the question back at you, Googs. Give me a good reason why Chris Mara should remain in his role. I'm interested in hearing the logic of how a senior VP of player personnel doesn't actually have impact on the personnel.
I thought 5th grade was the right starting point. Is it Middle School?
Again, all you bring is conspiracy theories. So are you saying it's time for a new shield now? If the next guy is 67 years old and a former NY Giant employee, maybe I will listen closer but no promises.
And if Chris Mara is in charge, why are you saying Getts picked Barkely? Isn't Chris calling the shots in your hypothesis? And we have always been talking the level of input, you just haven't comprehended it. I said Chris probably gets a voice but it is akin to your's or mine on BBI...just a voice with nobody that matters listening.
And I am sure Chris has a big enough ego and can cause enough of a stink in the family that he can get almost any title he wants. But who really cares? Other than him and now you...oh and the media guy you kept thinking is playing some kind of deep throat/Watergate role.
Again, Chris Mara probably gets to sit in on every major personnel decision and get heard. At least for the ones that occur during a non-Triple Crown racing weekends. But that doesn't mean anyone is really listening or executing on his views.
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In comment 15465417 Jimmy Googs said:
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debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
Keep in mind, as I said before, this isn't just a BBI/reddit chat anymore. We have an actual member of the media using quite strong language to define the relationship here.
I have no idea who Chad Forbes is. I just looked him up and he seems to pretty much run a twitter account and is on some podcasts? Also grew up a Giants fan, sounds like he reads BBI and just wrote something about Chris Mara. Looking at some his tweets, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a regular poster here the way he writes.
He's a well known insider to the Giant organization. Been tied in for years...
Regardless of what he actually does, it seems bad. It would probably be really annoying to put in 12 hour days breaking down film and have do-nothing silver spoon sitting around with a title you dream of having. And that's the good case scenario. That he just collects checks and is demoralizing for the staff.
The bad case scenario is much worse- that he has real input into decisions, that his presence destroys accountability and the chain of command.
And this is not to absolve Gettleman at all. Gettleman is such an arrogant moron, that I'd prefer Mara to be the GM over him
There’s really no way to spin it. Either he’s terrible at his job or he’s a figurehead wasting the role when someone else more talented and driven could help the team in the role.
And to the other guy saying Tischs are only on the business side. There is a Charles Tish who is a football operations assistant. Maybe not a super high profile job, but big enough to be listed in their front office website.
Link - ( New Window )
And to the other guy saying Tischs are only on the business side. There is a Charles Tish who is a football operations assistant. Maybe not a super high profile job, but big enough to be listed in their front office website. Link - ( New Window )
I am not overstating it. Stubbs is suggesting the media guy is right and that Chris Mara is calling the shits on personnel as he wrote a few posts above. After an awful loss mind you.
I will submit that I should not go as far as saying Chris Mara has no input. But I will suggest it is so minor with respect to the depths of the issues facing the Giants that it is immaterial. He is an owner with a title. If he was driving anything important and/or doing it in a fashion that was detrimental to the organization then any logical person or process would rectify it. If there is no one that is logical enough in the organization to notice and rectify it, then Chris Mara is absolutely the least of our problems.
Good luck with that. He would lose the title and still do the same thing that we don’t know he does as a plain old owner.
Focus discussion on what matters that maybe can change the future, and that’s what GM can replace Getts....
Chris Mara just drawing a paycheck.
This isnt your out of luck nephew needing a paycheck. He’s an owner - hus wallet is just fine. He’s involved in personnel - they arent even hiding it. Player personnel. What else could it mean? An owner with say in personnel. End of story.
Now- do we really think he’s low on the totem poll?
Again - you dont need an insider pass. It’s common sense.
Chris Mara is Connor.
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He’s not gonna fire himself, as long as they continue to make money, which would be impossible not to do, it will take a lot to oust him. But 10 years of futility and media pressure might just do the trick
Good luck with that. He would lose the title and still do the same thing that we don’t know he does as a plain old owner.
Focus discussion on what matters that maybe can change the future, and that’s what GM can replace Getts....
I think we are capable of having multiple discussions on different topics
As to which discussion is more likely to impact the future, maybe Karnak knows that
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His involvement. He gets credit for drafting Bradshaw. He has been there through all of the disasters. Pretending like he is not involved in this process is bizarre. He is the one constant and now they are raising nephew Tim to be his successor. It’s just rampant nepotism. He is involved - ( New Window )
If you are trying to convince me that Chris Mara is THE problem with this team, you and I are never going to agree.
Fire Chris Mara. I don't care. But it won't fix the real problems.
Getting all of the Maras, most importantly John, out of any sort of football decisions is 100% a plus. You can say we’re speculating that he has say. But you’re also speculating that he’s “just collecting a paycheck and racing horses.”
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In comment 15465585 ron mexico said:
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He’s not gonna fire himself, as long as they continue to make money, which would be impossible not to do, it will take a lot to oust him. But 10 years of futility and media pressure might just do the trick
Good luck with that. He would lose the title and still do the same thing that we don’t know he does as a plain old owner.
Focus discussion on what matters that maybe can change the future, and that’s what GM can replace Getts....
I think we are capable of having multiple discussions on different topics
As to which discussion is more likely to impact the future, maybe Karnak knows that
We are and happy to do so. Let me know how Chris Mara is negatively impacting the Giants or anymore than any other Front Office personnel? Until there is something worth talking about here as to how he drives any bad decisions this is a nothing topic on the eve of a bad loss and people looking to hang someone...
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In comment 15465417 Jimmy Googs said:
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debate this topic with you all day/week/year as you seem committed to the idea that Chris Mara is driving the ship himself basically. AND driving it straight into the ground with his own bad decisions that not only he dreams up but that he executes outside of any reasonable logic from a number of other high ranking football personnel.
Before we start though, I am interested to know why the Giants moved on from Reese to Gettleman if Chris is really the guy anyway? And why did Gettleman actually take the job and crap, while going thru cancer mind you, if Chris is the one just screwing it up behind the scenes?
Look forward to the logic here...
You say that as if even a 5th grader couldn't connect the obvious dots.
Forbes said Gettleman was the shield. Well, the team had sucked too many years with Reese out front, so the Maras needed a new shield. Gettleman, who had been fired from the Panthers, decided to take the gig, knowing he had some guard rails in place.
Like I said before, Gettleman isn't guiltless. He wasted a top 10 pick on a RB the year before he became Giants GM, so it was already in his DNA to go for Barkley. It probably didn't take the Maras much convincing either, as they were all in on another run with Eli.
Before you say "LOL conspiracy theory", people are pointing out draft picks reportedly made by Mara, so we're basically arguing over at the level of input he has at this point.
Whatever the level may end up being, anybody who drafted Davis Webb shouldn't be involved in personnel.
Let me throw the question back at you, Googs. Give me a good reason why Chris Mara should remain in his role. I'm interested in hearing the logic of how a senior VP of player personnel doesn't actually have impact on the personnel.
I thought 5th grade was the right starting point. Is it Middle School?
Again, all you bring is conspiracy theories. So are you saying it's time for a new shield now? If the next guy is 67 years old and a former NY Giant employee, maybe I will listen closer but no promises.
And if Chris Mara is in charge, why are you saying Getts picked Barkely? Isn't Chris calling the shots in your hypothesis? And we have always been talking the level of input, you just haven't comprehended it. I said Chris probably gets a voice but it is akin to your's or mine on BBI...just a voice with nobody that matters listening.
And I am sure Chris has a big enough ego and can cause enough of a stink in the family that he can get almost any title he wants. But who really cares? Other than him and now you...oh and the media guy you kept thinking is playing some kind of deep throat/Watergate role.
Again, Chris Mara probably gets to sit in on every major personnel decision and get heard. At least for the ones that occur during a non-Triple Crown racing weekends. But that doesn't mean anyone is really listening or executing on his views.
I think the reports I've heard where the GM has one board and Chris Mara has another are closer to the truth. In this case, Gettleman wanted Barkley and Chris had no objection to it, so Barkley was picked.
The idea that Chris would not be listened to, as the senior VP of personnel and as an owner, boggles the mind. His voice IS a voice that matters by virtue of him being, you know, an owner.
And yes, if Chris Mara really is calling the shots, if he is using Gettleman as a shield, well that's the whole point of a shield. Discard him and get a new shield when he's no longer able to deflect attacks.
Once again, it's not a conspiracy theory when someone you admit is plugged in is saying it. I still think you're a Mara or something, because you seem overly invested in downplaying something that at the very least, you'd reasonably have to admit is fishy.
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In comment 15465595 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15465585 ron mexico said:
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He’s not gonna fire himself, as long as they continue to make money, which would be impossible not to do, it will take a lot to oust him. But 10 years of futility and media pressure might just do the trick
Good luck with that. He would lose the title and still do the same thing that we don’t know he does as a plain old owner.
Focus discussion on what matters that maybe can change the future, and that’s what GM can replace Getts....
I think we are capable of having multiple discussions on different topics
As to which discussion is more likely to impact the future, maybe Karnak knows that
We are and happy to do so. Let me know how Chris Mara is negatively impacting the Giants or anymore than any other Front Office personnel? Until there is something worth talking about here as to how he drives any bad decisions this is a nothing topic on the eve of a bad loss and people looking to hang someone...
Let's revise this question too.
Assuming you're correct, and Chris Mara is 100% innocent, and has nothing whatsoever to do with personnel in any way, shape or form (this is basically your argument, right?), why should he remain in that seat as a do-nothing when the Giants could use some actual expertise there?
He's an owner with a personnel job in the front office. He's rich. He doesn't need to "collect a paycheck". He's there because he's involved in personnel.
To argue against that is the conspiracy theory. Not the other way around. The only question is HOW MUCH say does he have? No one knows because that's the way the Maras want it.
They have the perfect job. They just have to keep it that way. Keep yourselves at arms distance from the fans. Filter your decisions through a fully functioning "front office" that is nothing more than friends of family filling seats, allowing the same decision-making structure to operate behind the curtain. It's why no Giants GM gets fired unless absolutely necessary (fan revolt). They aren't even close to the primary decision maker. The Maras can't in good conscience fire the GM when they know full well it isn't his fault. He's getting coffee and donuts, signing off on scouts timecards to ADP and talking to reporters. All the bureaucratic nonsense the Maras don't want to do.
It's my story and I'm sticking to it. I don't even blame them for doing it, it's their business and they have 4 Lombardi's. I think they'll turn it around eventually.
Let's revise this question too.
Assuming you're correct, and Chris Mara is 100% innocent, and has nothing whatsoever to do with personnel in any way, shape or form (this is basically your argument, right?), why should he remain in that seat as a do-nothing when the Giants could use some actual expertise there?
Not debating Chris Mara's innocence. Debating that he doesn't really matter in the overall scheme here.
I have said numerous times would rather not see family intertwined in football ops. But also have commented, over and over again, that involvement is not calling the shots like you are suggesting. Chris has a title, gets info, develops opinions, and has a voice...but the GM drives the bus. And Getts as GM is driving it nowhere.
As to whether Chris Mara should remain in his seat...I already mentioned would rather the family don't intertwine but I really don't care as he isn't as relevant as you make him out to be.
It's why no Giants GM gets fired unless absolutely necessary (fan revolt). They aren't even close to the primary decision maker. The Maras can't in good conscience fire the GM when they know full well it isn't his fault. He's getting coffee and donuts, signing off on scouts timecards to ADP and talking to reporters.
If you really think this, then the sky isn't blue in your world...
Not debating Chris Mara's innocence. Debating that he doesn't really matter in the overall scheme here.
I have said numerous times would rather not see family intertwined in football ops. But also have commented, over and over again, that involvement is not calling the shots like you are suggesting. Chris has a title, gets info, develops opinions, and has a voice...but the GM drives the bus. And Getts as GM is driving it nowhere.
As to whether Chris Mara should remain in his seat...I already mentioned would rather the family don't intertwine but I really don't care as he isn't as relevant as you make him out to be.
I think a big part of the problem is that none of us know how big a voice Chris Mara has in personnel decisions, hence a lack of accountability, whether perceived or actual. You can say that voice isn't as loud as some think, I can say it is louder than most think, but who knows? And to me, that is a big part of the problem.
I'm not defending DG here, I hated the hire and he should have been gone by now, but what if Chris Mara is calling many of the shots, and the GM is the fall guy? Now you are correct in that it could happen whether Chris has the SVP title or not, but that is why we need an outsider to run ALL football ops.
I'm not defending DG here, I hated the hire and he should have been gone by now, but what if Chris Mara is calling many of the shots, and the GM is the fall guy? Now you are correct in that it could happen whether Chris has the SVP title or not, but that is why we need an outsider to run ALL football ops.
What you just described is a conspiracy theory. And I don't subscribe to them...
Well, then how about a new General Manager? He/She can hire a new Assistant GM too.
my point in another thread was IF the Mara family wants a pay check from the organization, then why does it have to be tied to roster building? They could take some bullshit marketing job or create a VP of ANYTHING position.
The fact that the roles are somehow tied to player personnel is just too convenient.
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co-director of player personnel. Tim is a Mara on his mother's side. So you have two Maras in high player personnel positions, and our player personnel sucks. It's very hard to conclude that there is no connection. As someone said above, even if these are do-nothing jobs - then we need someone who does something.
my point in another thread was IF the Mara family wants a pay check from the organization, then why does it have to be tied to roster building? They could take some bullshit marketing job or create a VP of ANYTHING position.
The fact that the roles are somehow tied to player personnel is just too convenient.
Chris thinks he's a football expert. He was a "scout" for the '86 and '90 teams, left to run some kind of scouting operation in 1994, then returned in 2003 as the VP of Player Evaluation.
It's impossible to say what his actual duties are in his current role, which is probably why some people have a problem with it. The Giants are a bad organization, and the last time that was true the Mara family were the primary culprits.
Tim McDonnel is definitely not a do nothing. By accounts he is a "rising star" and is the pre-emptive favorite to take over for John
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In comment 15466083 Del Shofner said:
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co-director of player personnel. Tim is a Mara on his mother's side. So you have two Maras in high player personnel positions, and our player personnel sucks. It's very hard to conclude that there is no connection. As someone said above, even if these are do-nothing jobs - then we need someone who does something.
my point in another thread was IF the Mara family wants a pay check from the organization, then why does it have to be tied to roster building? They could take some bullshit marketing job or create a VP of ANYTHING position.
The fact that the roles are somehow tied to player personnel is just too convenient.
Chris thinks he's a football expert. He was a "scout" for the '86 and '90 teams, left to run some kind of scouting operation in 1994, then returned in 2003 as the VP of Player Evaluation.
It's impossible to say what his actual duties are in his current role, which is probably why some people have a problem with it. The Giants are a bad organization, and the last time that was true the Mara family were the primary culprits.
You forgot the most important bit. That is, that he tried to be a GM *twice*.
I don't see a guy like this promoting himself in 2011 to a position that is co-equal to the GM - a position he's always wanted - and then "doing nothing". His promotion to Senior VP of Player Personnel coincides with the collapse of the player personnel.
Saying the buck stops with Gettleman is disingenuous. It's true Gettleman has made the team worse, as the team was better the day Reese was fired than it is now, but the fact remains the team was horrible when Reese was fired. In 2015, while this team was wallowing in misery, Gettleman's team was in the Superbowl. Gettleman is not the root cause of this situation.
We're really arguing over how much influence he has, not whether he has any or not. And even a little at this point means that he should be considered part of the problem.
And again, the point of this thread was that we have a guy in the media now who is pointing at him as THE problem.
It's impossible to say what his actual duties are in his current role, which is probably why some people have a problem with it. The Giants are a bad organization, and the last time that was true the Mara family were the primary culprits.
The fact that it is not clear what his duties are or what his true role is...is actually part of the plan. The fact that it is unclear and that he has no true accountability means he really cannot be fired.
I think they like that we are to believe Chris just spends his time jerking off to pictures of horses.
The rest are just owners and people outside your general purview...