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Daniel Jones is in an Impossible Situation

Cyrus the Great : 11/23/2021 3:21 pm
Watch the linked clip. Not only was that an absolute disaster of a play in terms of design but Jones got crushed at the end of it as well. When Thomas is injured this is the worst line in football; when he plays its probably still bottom 5. The fact of the matter is that I have no idea if Daniel Jones can be a good NFL QB or not. I've seen some good but the surrounding situation has been so bad it makes it impossible to evaluate him. Nothing is going to change now that Garrett is gone, maybe offense gets a little bit better but not much. What an absolute dumpster fire. Glad I'm not the one who has to figure out whether this team should pay him or not.
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Not sure why  
BigBlueJ : 11/23/2021 3:28 pm : link
Garrett is getting killed for this, clearly Toney wrang the wrong route.
They shouldn't pay him  
GiantTuff1 : 11/23/2021 3:28 pm : link
Best case scenario for him is bring him back next year and at least bring in competition until the new QB comes in.

Personally I'm for trading him for whatever they can get and bring in a competent veteran to have the slate clean for the next GM and Judge to pick the QB without the hairiness of keeping Jones.

He's on the Bortles career trajectory, though a slightly better version.
It is absolutely not "impossible" to evaluate Daniel Jones  
Mike from Ohio : 11/23/2021 3:36 pm : link
This idea that until he has perfect lab conditions we may never know if he is a star in the making is ludicrous.

There is plenty of tape and analysis on Daniel Jones to have some well formed views on what he is and what he isn't.
The guy under Shurmur looked like a promising  
Heisenberg : 11/23/2021 3:41 pm : link
passer with a turnover problem

The guy under Garrett looks like he's regressed. Less promising, still with turnovers.

The scheme under Garrett/Judge was so incredibly conservative that I think it does make it difficult to figure out how good Jones really is.

The QB class stinks so I think the next regime will have to give Jones another year. I hope they bring in another option to compete for the job, too.
RE: The guy under Shurmur looked like a promising  
bluepepper : 11/23/2021 3:54 pm : link
In comment 15465005 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
passer with a turnover problem

The guy under Garrett looks like he's regressed. Less promising, still with turnovers.

Yeah, this is the thing that gives me some hope on Jones. The 2019 guy had the look of a star in the making. It could be that the league figured him out or the only way he can cut down INT's is dinking and dunking. But also it's possible that the Shurmur system was just that much better for him than the Garret system.
RE: It is absolutely not  
BillT : 11/23/2021 3:58 pm : link
In comment 15464993 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
This idea that until he has perfect lab conditions we may never know if he is a star in the making is ludicrous.

There is plenty of tape and analysis on Daniel Jones to have some well formed views on what he is and what he isn't.

This is BS. No one says he needs “perfect lab conditions”. Just something resembling average would be just fine. It hasn’t been close to that.
One play  
TyreeHelmet : 11/23/2021 3:59 pm : link
Did Orlovsky watch the rest of the game or the other 30 games Jones has played? He's not a good quarterback. To blame it on coaches and his surroundings at this point is absurd.
RE: RE: It is absolutely not  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/23/2021 4:07 pm : link
In comment 15465072 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15464993 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


This idea that until he has perfect lab conditions we may never know if he is a star in the making is ludicrous.

There is plenty of tape and analysis on Daniel Jones to have some well formed views on what he is and what he isn't.


This is BS. No one says he needs “perfect lab conditions”. Just something resembling average would be just fine. It hasn’t been close to that.


That's extreme. He's not exactly carrying a crucifix on back getting hit on every play. As a group we need to stop overstating things to redirect responsibility
the idea that the QB class coming out is too poor to draft a QB  
markky : 11/23/2021 4:53 pm : link
is ludicrous. one of the guys coming out will be much better than Jones. we're drafting high. the question is, can we identify which one? that's the job of the scouts and GM.

RE: RE: The guy under Shurmur looked like a promising  
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 4:59 pm : link
In comment 15465047 bluepepper said:
Quote:
In comment 15465005 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


passer with a turnover problem

The guy under Garrett looks like he's regressed. Less promising, still with turnovers.



Yeah, this is the thing that gives me some hope on Jones. The 2019 guy had the look of a star in the making. It could be that the league figured him out or the only way he can cut down INT's is dinking and dunking. But also it's possible that the Shurmur system was just that much better for him than the Garret system.


Outside of three games under Shurmer, Jones numbers are exactly the same as the last two years. Do you trust the 34 game sample size or the three game sample size?
Jones will be here next year.  
joe48 : 11/23/2021 5:43 pm : link
Fix the OL and get an edge rusher. In 2023 look for a better QB.
Terps and Co. can use DJ for a punching bag another year.
RE: It is absolutely not  
Blueblue : 11/23/2021 5:50 pm : link
In comment 15464993 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
This idea that until he has perfect lab conditions we may never know if he is a star in the making is ludicrous.

There is plenty of tape and analysis on Daniel Jones to have some well formed views on what he is and what he isn't.


I don't think anyone is saying everything around him needs to be perfect. But making the argument that the team around him needs to be atleast serviceable to get an idea of what we have is valid.
One of the reasons he is under such pressure  
Vanzetti : 11/23/2021 11:34 pm : link
is that the opponent feels they can blitz or stunt at will since they have no fear of Jones making them pay.

So, its a catch-22
It's rather obvious  
TroutMan : 11/24/2021 5:05 am : link
That every time Danny Dimes Jones steps out on an NFL field he is in an impossible situation. College wasn't any better.
The likely ceiling for the 2022 Giants is mediocrity.  
Big Blue Blogger : 11/24/2021 6:10 am : link
They won’t have cap space to do much in free agency, and the two high draft picks won’t be enough to fill all the holes, even if they both have an immediate impact. With better injury luck, the team could be competitive. Without it, they will probably remain a dumpster fire, only less fun to watch.

For 2022, at least, I doubt it matters much whether the QB is Daniel Jones or a stopgap vet. So the least-bad option, IMO, is to decline DJ’s 2023 option and let him earn the rest of his guaranteed money. He might play better, and make his way into the Ryan Fitzpatrick / Jacoby Brissett / Tyrod Taylor / Andy Dalton / Nick Foles / Jared Goff “you could do worse” tier of NFL QBs. He might surpass that level. Nobody knows. My point is that the Giants have to pay him in 2022 anyway, and they have neither the cap space nor the supporting cast to field a good team, with or without Daniel Jones.

So, is DJ in an impossible situation? Yes, if you mean he can’t win games or show his skills to best advantage. On the other hand, the disastrous state of the team makes it likely that he gets a fourth year to show what he can do. That’s a longer leash than most losing, low-production QBs enjoy.
Given his ability, he's in an amazing situation  
Jerry in_DC : 11/24/2021 7:55 am : link
Massively overdrafted and gifted 4 years likely as a starter. He'll have made almost 26 million and had more opportunities than most to stick as an NFL starter.

This is a guy who was not a good college QB and is not a good NFL QB. If he'd been drafted in the 2nd round he'd have only made ~7 million and likely would get pulled earlier in his career.

He got a lifetime of money and a massive opportunity based on his connections and his physical appearance. He's insanely fortunate and should be eternally grateful to the Giants organization
RE: The guy under Shurmur looked like a promising  
HomerJones45 : 11/24/2021 8:55 am : link
In comment 15465005 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
passer with a turnover problem

The guy under Garrett looks like he's regressed. Less promising, still with turnovers.

The scheme under Garrett/Judge was so incredibly conservative that I think it does make it difficult to figure out how good Jones really is.

The QB class stinks so I think the next regime will have to give Jones another year. I hope they bring in another option to compete for the job, too.
Forget the rookie year. He joins a long list of qb's, some of whom played here, who looked promising their rookie years and crashed and burned once the opposition had film on them.

The opposition is telling you how good he is- not very. They will give him all the one read, 3 and 4 yard outs he wants. If he happens to stumble into the red zone, they will shut him down. No DC is sitting there gameplanning some special strategy to stop Daniel Jones.
He is what he is  
JonC : 11/24/2021 9:27 am : link
As others posted, his pro performance is much like his college performance, and we've got 30+ games of sample size which backs it up.

He could be in a better situation, but he's not going to be. He's got to find a way to lift his play and his unit's play, and history suggests he won't. They overdrafted him, I said it then and nothing has changed.
RE: RE: It is absolutely not  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/24/2021 2:17 pm : link
In comment 15465316 Blueblue said:
Quote:
In comment 15464993 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


This idea that until he has perfect lab conditions we may never know if he is a star in the making is ludicrous.

There is plenty of tape and analysis on Daniel Jones to have some well formed views on what he is and what he isn't.



I don't think anyone is saying everything around him needs to be perfect. But making the argument that the team around him needs to be atleast serviceable to get an idea of what we have is valid.

Almost every highly drafted QB joins a bad team. Very few of them have production that is as mediocre as Jones's has been.
RE: It's rather obvious  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/24/2021 2:18 pm : link
In comment 15465711 TroutMan said:
Quote:
That every time Danny Dimes Jones steps out on an NFL field he is in an impossible situation. College wasn't any better.

Every mediocre QB is in an impossible situation. Just like a dwarf in a slam-dunk contest.
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