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You’re the new GM a of the Giants

JoeyBigBlue : 11/23/2021 3:26 pm
What would you do at QB for the 2022 season?

A) Keep Jones, build the O-Line and D-Line through the draft.

B) Trade Jones for a late round pick, draft a QB high in the draft. Sign a veteran backup that could start if Rookie faulters. Still build O-Line and D-Line through the draft picks available. (Keep in mind that you might have to trade up to get the QB you really want)

C) Trade Jones for a late round pick, sign a stop gap QB that could start (Teddy Bridgewater, Cam Newton, or Tyrod Taylor type). Build the O-Line and D-Line through the draft.

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The new GM’s first step should be to gain consensus within  
cosmicj : 11/23/2021 3:55 pm : link
The org that 2022 is a rebuilding year and start making all decisions around fielding an improving, promising young team in 2023.

I want Jones traded next spring but it’s part of that “build to 2023” principle and not a tactical choice.
RE: People aren’t factoring in  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 3:55 pm : link
In comment 15465034 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
That you can’t miss on a QB prospect this year of you go that route. Picking the wrong QB sets you back another 2-3 years. This is why I’m against the taking a 2nd route QB route.


This is not true. It's ok to miss, and it does not set you back 2-3 years.

What sets you back 2-3 years is failing to admit that you made a mistake. The Giants made a mistake drafting Jones - they could easily have rectified that a year later by drafting Herbert. It just requires a change of mindset and a removal of sentimentality from decision making. People act like it's impossible or impractical but it isn't.

Don't be afraid to pick a quarterback again. Don't be afraid to acknowledge you missed if you did.
I think the best option is A  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/23/2021 3:56 pm : link
For the fact that I’m not sold on the QB class this year. I think you don’t pick up Jones’ option and you bring in a veteran QB to compete with Jones for the starting job. Let Jones earn his job and his contract. If he sucks then you let him go, and draft a QB in 2023.
Giants have a deep systemic issue  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/23/2021 3:56 pm : link
of losing the LOS or physical battle. My first order of business is not being pushed around the field like they have been for a decade. I don't want a fancy offense to overcome this in the season only to be exposed in the playoffs.

I also understand you need a QB but I would rather fix the guts of the team first. If the draft presents a franchise QB I take one. I believe with a serviceable veteran with a team described above and good coaching I can compete for and make the playoffs. At some point I am willing to move heavy assets to get the final piece if necessary.

I still believe the most physically athletic teams wins championships. I also think your chances are better with a rookie contract are better but you have to have the infrastructure in place. Otherwise we end up with Jones situation repeated.
RE: RE: Two reasons to trade Jones  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 3:57 pm : link
In comment 15465040 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15465025 Go Terps said:


Quote:


1. He's going to walk at the end of 22 for nothing
2. Every snap he gets in 22 is a waste. Those are snaps that could be going to a young prospect (even a UDFA) that has not been deemed a lost cause like Jones has.

And this is not mentioning the stupidity and sentimentality of ownership, which is always a danger.

Jones has to go.



This seems to me to be an emotional response. The idea next year is to build a competitive team. Putting a UDFA QB in and losing games and pissing off guys playing for contracts and careers is silly. You are fucking with these guys to make a point about Jones.

Jones is not some kind of cancer that needs to be gone. Even if you draft a QB in the first, if the line is a shambles you don't roll him out there and break his confidence. Let Jones (or another vet) take that and try to win until you are comfortable the potential answer at QB is ready to play.


I don't think 2022 is about competing. I think it's about culling as many mistakes as you can to try to get to a clean slate in 2023.

Further, a young prospect isn't likely to be much worse than Jones (backup level). But he might be better. It's a low enough bar that there shouldn't be much difference anyway.
RE: RE: People aren’t factoring in  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/23/2021 3:58 pm : link
In comment 15465051 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15465034 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


That you can’t miss on a QB prospect this year of you go that route. Picking the wrong QB sets you back another 2-3 years. This is why I’m against the taking a 2nd route QB route.



This is not true. It's ok to miss, and it does not set you back 2-3 years.

What sets you back 2-3 years is failing to admit that you made a mistake. The Giants made a mistake drafting Jones - they could easily have rectified that a year later by drafting Herbert. It just requires a change of mindset and a removal of sentimentality from decision making. People act like it's impossible or impractical but it isn't.

Don't be afraid to pick a quarterback again. Don't be afraid to acknowledge you missed if you did.



That also means the Giants are awful again next year and they have a high draft pick. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to suck again.
RE: What good does signing  
Scooter185 : 11/23/2021 3:58 pm : link
In comment 15464995 Gman11 said:
Quote:
a stop gap QB do? None of them are any better than Jones.


The QB, and everyone else for that matter, would understand that it's a stop gap and would relieve a lot of pressure all around. With Jones playing, even with his option declined, is still going to have that air of expectation of living up to his draft pick.
They're likely to suck again no matter who they pick  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 3:59 pm : link
Even if they pick two linemen like everyone wants, they'll still be rookies learning on a curve - not saviors.
Probably some combination of B & C  
Mike in NY : 11/23/2021 4:06 pm : link
I do not see a QB in this draft that merits a Top 10 selection. With 2 high 1sts and what will likely be a high 2nd I would use the 2 1sts on BPA which will likely be linemen of some type. I would consider trading down with the 2nd of the 2. As far as QB I would trade up from the high 2nd (like Ravens did with Lamar Jackson) or stay with high 2nd (like Raiders did with Derek Carr) and get a QB that falls that we like the upside of (likely Ridder). You then sign a stopgap so that your QB of the future does not have to start Week 1. In this draft the only Week 1 starter I see is Pickett, but I do not think he has the upside to be better than a Tannehill/Cousins type and that is not enough for us to burn a Top 10 pick.
Keep Jones,  
BigBlueNH : 11/23/2021 4:08 pm : link
draft a QB 2nd round or later to compete - there is not a QB worth a top 10 pick in this draft IMO. (I like Brennan Armstrong of UVA if he comes out).

You have next year to decide on Jones or move on. (I am among those who would like to see what he could do with better OL play in front of him.) If you decide to move on from Jones after the 2022 season, you have the 2023 draft which should be better for QBs than this year.

As others have said, there is a lot of bad QB play in the league. Getting someone who will be a clear upgrade working behind this OL is a tall order.
I'll give you a name to consider after day 1  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 4:10 pm : link
Malik Cunningham, Louisville. Very viable option on Day 2 of the draft.

Options (either through the draft, FA, or both) won't be a problem. There will be plenty.
Question  
Archer : 11/23/2021 4:11 pm : link
What are your goals ?
Do you want to improve the team and create a team that can be competitive?

I do not see how B/C work towards improving the team
Unless there is a superior prospect available in the draft you hold the line and hope that Jones can show improvement

B without a great prospect will recreate what happened with Jones
C is a stop gap and does not improve the team

If it isn’t Jones then hope there is a qb that will be available in 2023 and that the team will be in a position to acquire that player
To that end the Giants should consider trading back with one of their first round picks to acquire another first in 2023
RE: I'll give you a name to consider after day 1  
Mike in NY : 11/23/2021 4:22 pm : link
In comment 15465101 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Malik Cunningham, Louisville. Very viable option on Day 2 of the draft.

Options (either through the draft, FA, or both) won't be a problem. There will be plenty.


Through the draft I do not see a Week 1 2022 starter if you want them to reach their full upside (sans Pickett who I have stated my concerns here and elsewhere about).
RE: Two reasons to trade Jones  
Jimmy Googs : 11/23/2021 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15465025 Go Terps said:
Quote:
1. He's going to walk at the end of 22 for nothing
2. Every snap he gets in 22 is a waste. Those are snaps that could be going to a young prospect (even a UDFA) that has not been deemed a lost cause like Jones has.

And this is not mentioning the stupidity and sentimentality of ownership, which is always a danger.

Jones has to go.


Not all that compelling. Potential trade but doesn't need to be forced just to mitigate any dangers...
First interview for head coaches  
gogiants : 11/23/2021 4:28 pm : link
JJ is on the list but check out your options. Then the new head coach and I would discuss QBs. I would draft a QB in 2022 even if not in round 1. Keep Jones for another year and see how the new draftee works out. Unless Jones shines in the rest of this season I would not pick up his fifth year option. Give him next year to decide if you keep him going forward.
RE: People aren’t factoring in  
Jimmy Googs : 11/23/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15465034 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
That you can’t miss on a QB prospect this year of you go that route. Picking the wrong QB sets you back another 2-3 years. This is why I’m against the taking a 2nd route QB route.


This isn't compelling either. The Giants are in a shape that is not good so nothing can really set them back much further, or keep them from achieving some quick turnaround which is more fantasy anyway...
Unless one of the college QB's pops,  
Section331 : 11/23/2021 4:29 pm : link
you keep Jones nut do not pick up his option, and bring in a competent vet QB to compete. Start building your OL through the draft, but that is probably a multi-year process, so you're going to have pick some up through FA and/or trades. Get an ER, and some LB's.

We have a lot of draft assets going into this draft, they have to be used wisely.
A  
jeff57 : 11/23/2021 4:31 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: Two reasons to trade Jones  
Mike in NY : 11/23/2021 4:31 pm : link
In comment 15465067 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15465040 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


In comment 15465025 Go Terps said:


Quote:


1. He's going to walk at the end of 22 for nothing
2. Every snap he gets in 22 is a waste. Those are snaps that could be going to a young prospect (even a UDFA) that has not been deemed a lost cause like Jones has.

And this is not mentioning the stupidity and sentimentality of ownership, which is always a danger.

Jones has to go.



This seems to me to be an emotional response. The idea next year is to build a competitive team. Putting a UDFA QB in and losing games and pissing off guys playing for contracts and careers is silly. You are fucking with these guys to make a point about Jones.

Jones is not some kind of cancer that needs to be gone. Even if you draft a QB in the first, if the line is a shambles you don't roll him out there and break his confidence. Let Jones (or another vet) take that and try to win until you are comfortable the potential answer at QB is ready to play.



I don't think 2022 is about competing. I think it's about culling as many mistakes as you can to try to get to a clean slate in 2023.

Further, a young prospect isn't likely to be much worse than Jones (backup level). But he might be better. It's a low enough bar that there shouldn't be much difference anyway.


You just can't put anybody back there. A QB without accuracy can get his WR's injured with a career threatening injury (having to adjust to a bad pass, gets hit by defender, tears up knee). Not to mention it stymies the development of someone like Toney if he can't even have an NFL caliber QB (not saying a starter, but not Nathan Peterman) throwing him the ball.
I would keep Jones for 2022  
US1 Giants : 11/23/2021 4:32 pm : link
even though I am ready to move on. There is no QB in the draft who excites me. Giants have plenty of choices coming in the 2022 draft. A late-round pick won't help much. Would not sign Jones to a new contract.
_________  
I am Ninja : 11/23/2021 4:44 pm : link
no ones gonna trade for him. just like no ones concerned about playing him. you jones dick suckers praying for the blame and consequence to land elsewhere dont fucking get it. other teams are dying for him to survive and be the Qb1 for as long as possible. they dont fear him. they know he cant beat them. hes an easy w. get a fuckin clue.
I'd be strongly inclined to pick a QB in the first round  
Jerry in_DC : 11/23/2021 4:55 pm : link
QB evaluation is way less accurate than people make it out to be. The outcomes are highly random and unpredictable.

Just look at any recent draft. Look at where Mahomes went in the draft. Look at 2018 - 2 MVP-level guys scattered around 2 massive busts and whatever Mayfield is. Look at 2020 with Tua going ahead of Herbert.

All the best professionals in the world are evaluating these guys. And they suck at it. Maybe it's just something that is very difficult to do.

The only way to know if a guy is going to be good in the NFL is for him to play in the NFL. It's not a certainty. It never will be. You're just drawing a card and hoping it's good.

So...if the QB has 1) the requisite physical tools, 2) a track record of college success, and 3) a good personality...I draft him. Then I try him out for 2-3 years. If he's good, I keep him. If he's not, I fold the hand and get new cards.
A  
Platos : 11/23/2021 4:59 pm : link
A is the best option. we don't have money in FA.

Jones hasn't had a fair shake at things. the worst thing that could happen is Jones sucks, we have another high pick that will be used on QB only this time our OL is fixed and we have some young pass rush talent.

imagine you rewind to 2019 and jones comes in with an OL, DL, and a few weapons?
It is neither practical or sensible to simply throw anyone in at QB  
Mike from Ohio : 11/23/2021 5:08 pm : link
The goal is to win games. Putting some UDFA QB out there tells your players you aren’t serious about competing or winning. Guys check out, fail to develop, or simply move on if they can. None of that is consistent with building a winning culture or getting guys to play hard.

Jones is not a pariah the team needs to be rid of. He is not causing harm being here. He just isn’t good enough to build around. If you let him go for a 6th or 7th round pick you have a hole that needs to be filled by someone who can give your team a chance to compete. Anything else and you might as well tell the team practices are optional since the year doesn’t count. It’s a losing culture.

Every position should be earned. If someone comes in and beats out Jones then you trade or release him. You don’t let him go while he is still cheap and hope some random late round pick comes in and plays as well. Jones is not the worst QB in the league and he is not giving you the play you are likely getting from a UDFA. That is hyperbole.

What this team needs is more fact based analysis devoid of emotion, not replacing sentimentality with vengeance.
The risk of keeping Jones  
Jerry in_DC : 11/23/2021 5:14 pm : link
is Mara. There is a certain profile that he appears to be infatuated with and Jones fits that profile.

Extending Jones is a catastrophe for the franchise. Maybe it's low probability but I could seen Mara doing it if Jones has a few good games at the end of next season. Removing that option from Mara is more important than a marginal downgrade at QB next year
There is no emotion there  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 5:15 pm : link
Jones is a known quantity: a backup level NFL quarterback. I'd rather use our scouting network and our available resources (draft and or FA) to try to develop someone else.

I made the same case when we drafted Lauletta - he should have been starting games once the 2018 season got out of hand. There was nothing to be gained by playing Eli (who I absolutely love).

Emotion had nothing to do with it. Resource allocation does - there is nothing to be gained from continuing with Jones once the decision has been made not to pick up his option or give him another contract.

Get something for him in trade (quantity of draft picks is important to this mess of a roster) and start over at the position. That's better than just letting him walk after 2022.
As a fan i confess to having some emotion  
Jerry in_DC : 11/23/2021 5:19 pm : link
I just can't stand watching him play. The mechanical robot QB is brutal to watch. I'd honestly rather watch Toney play QB. Another season with Jones will be a major downer.
RE: It is neither practical or sensible to simply throw anyone in at QB  
Scooter185 : 11/23/2021 5:36 pm : link
In comment 15465254 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
The goal is to win games. Putting some UDFA QB out there tells your players you aren’t serious about competing or winning. Guys check out, fail to develop, or simply move on if they can. None of that is consistent with building a winning culture or getting guys to play hard.

Jones is not a pariah the team needs to be rid of. He is not causing harm being here. He just isn’t good enough to build around. If you let him go for a 6th or 7th round pick you have a hole that needs to be filled by someone who can give your team a chance to compete. Anything else and you might as well tell the team practices are optional since the year doesn’t count. It’s a losing culture.

Every position should be earned. If someone comes in and beats out Jones then you trade or release him. You don’t let him go while he is still cheap and hope some random late round pick comes in and plays as well. Jones is not the worst QB in the league and he is not giving you the play you are likely getting from a UDFA. That is hyperbole.

What this team needs is more fact based analysis devoid of emotion, not replacing sentimentality with vengeance.


And declining his option and running him out there is going to inspire confidence? Perhaps dont replace him a UDFA, but I see no reason to keep Jones for year 4 if they're declining his option.
I truly don’t want  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/23/2021 5:54 pm : link
The Giants to draft a QB they don’t believe in. Jones was the 2nd best option of a bad QB draft (Kyler being the 1st). I don’t want to get stuck in that situation again. I also don’t want to valuable draft picks on marginal prospects to fit needs (drafting QBs every year until we get it right )
RE: I truly don’t want  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 6:01 pm : link
In comment 15465329 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
The Giants to draft a QB they don’t believe in. Jones was the 2nd best option of a bad QB draft (Kyler being the 1st). I don’t want to get stuck in that situation again. I also don’t want to valuable draft picks on marginal prospects to fit needs (drafting QBs every year until we get it right )


That draft had nothing to do with this one, and no one is suggesting forcing a pick the way they forced Jones.
You only know  
Jerry in_DC : 11/23/2021 6:03 pm : link
its a good or bad QB draft until after the draft. 2018 was supposed to be an awesome QB draft. Ended up with 2 mega busts + Mayfield.

Mahomes and Watson went 10 and 12 in a bad QB draft. Aaron Rodgers went 24 in a bad QB draft.

There's no way to know these things ahead of time.
If I am the new GM of the Giants  
Blue Dream : 11/23/2021 6:05 pm : link
I take one look around and write on a napkin I resign as HC of the NYG
RE: If I am the new GM of the Giants  
Blue Dream : 11/23/2021 6:09 pm : link
In comment 15465348 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
I take one look around and write on a napkin I resign as HC of the NYG


Sorry GM
RE: RE: If I am the new GM of the Giants  
Jimmy Googs : 11/23/2021 6:14 pm : link
In comment 15465352 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
In comment 15465348 Blue Dream said:


Quote:


I take one look around and write on a napkin I resign as HC of the NYG



Sorry GM


What are you nuts?

Storied franchise. Stuck in the mud for a decade so nowhere to go but up. Owners that let you spend right up to the cap each year. Almost impossible to look as bad as the last guy.

Plenty of draft picks for 2022 including two first rounders.

This is a great opportunity for a smart guy with some talent evaluating skills...

RE: The risk of keeping Jones  
cosmicj : 11/23/2021 6:16 pm : link
In comment 15465260 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
is Mara. There is a certain profile that he appears to be infatuated with and Jones fits that profile.

Extending Jones is a catastrophe for the franchise. Maybe it's low probability but I could seen Mara doing it if Jones has a few good games at the end of next season. Removing that option from Mara is more important than a marginal downgrade at QB next year


Exactly.
RE: RE: RE: If I am the new GM of the Giants  
Blue Dream : 11/23/2021 6:26 pm : link
In comment 15465354 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15465352 Blue Dream said:


Quote:


In comment 15465348 Blue Dream said:


Quote:


I take one look around and write on a napkin I resign as HC of the NYG



Sorry GM



What are you nuts?

Storied franchise. Stuck in the mud for a decade so nowhere to go but up. Owners that let you spend right up to the cap each year. Almost impossible to look as bad as the last guy.

Plenty of draft picks for 2022 including two first rounders.

This is a great opportunity for a smart guy with some talent evaluating skills...


I was joking. Real answer go ol/pass rusher with 2 first round picks. Find mid level qb prospect on day 2 to challenge jones if needed.
A or C, keep Jones or trade Jones, either way  
markky : 11/23/2021 6:30 pm : link
I'd get a stop gap veteran and build the team through the draft with BPA.

- if a QB is there, I'd take him. If not, don't force the pick.

- get the best edge, OL and defenders we can in the draft.

the reasons I'd get a stop gap vet are:

- other players are playing for their careers and contracts. give them the best chance to succeed. it doesn't seem like it's Jones.

- it will be easier to build and develop the team with a QB that can play QB. we've got to stop the clown show.
RE: RE: People aren’t factoring in  
The_Boss : 11/23/2021 6:36 pm : link
In comment 15465051 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15465034 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


That you can’t miss on a QB prospect this year of you go that route. Picking the wrong QB sets you back another 2-3 years. This is why I’m against the taking a 2nd route QB route.



This is not true. It's ok to miss, and it does not set you back 2-3 years.

What sets you back 2-3 years is failing to admit that you made a mistake. The Giants made a mistake drafting Jones - they could easily have rectified that a year later by drafting Herbert. It just requires a change of mindset and a removal of sentimentality from decision making. People act like it's impossible or impractical but it isn't.

Don't be afraid to pick a quarterback again. Don't be afraid to acknowledge you missed if you did.


I’m with you. Always have been. But after 24 tds his rookie year in 12 games, there was zero chance of them drafting Herbert.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If I am the new GM of the Giants  
Jimmy Googs : 11/23/2021 6:46 pm : link
In comment 15465364 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
In comment 15465354 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15465352 Blue Dream said:


Quote:


In comment 15465348 Blue Dream said:


Quote:


I take one look around and write on a napkin I resign as HC of the NYG



Sorry GM



What are you nuts?

Storied franchise. Stuck in the mud for a decade so nowhere to go but up. Owners that let you spend right up to the cap each year. Almost impossible to look as bad as the last guy.

Plenty of draft picks for 2022 including two first rounders.

This is a great opportunity for a smart guy with some talent evaluating skills...




I was joking. Real answer go ol/pass rusher with 2 first round picks. Find mid level qb prospect on day 2 to challenge jones if needed.


While I don't dispute the heavy investment needed in OL and pass rushers, they could pursue a myriad of strategies as no shortage of talent required almost everywhere.

QB evaluations will drive everything. If guys don't make the grade I see no reason to push it...even with a Day 2 prospect.

Would be happy shoring up a number of positional units. Or possibly even trading down again in Rd 1 with one of those two picks and aligning picks to a deferral of the QB decision in 2023.

With cap probably fairly tight, would probably just pursue a mid-priced Guard and maybe only a RB or TE in Free Agency. But I would do a lot of wheeling & dealing with all those 2022 Draft picks and infuse a crap load of young talent all over this roster. Don't fall in love with any prospect, but be ready to move and down in each round to grab versatile football players that can handle a pass-happy league on both sides of the ball.
Most  
AcidTest : 11/23/2021 6:54 pm : link
likely A because Jones is cheap, but I'd consider trading him on draft day if a QB I liked was available. At that point you could start a veteran until the new QB was ready to take over. The problem is that we're likely to have two top 10 picks and based on the games I've seen, I don't think there is any QB I would take that high.

We'd get a lot more than a day three pick for Jones IMO. The Jets got second, fourth, and sixth round picks for Darnold. Many teams might think that Jones is playing badly because his OL sucks.

I do agree that the team is not likely to be competitive in 2022. We simply have too many bad contracts that we won't really begin to be able to shed until 2023.
...  
ryanmkeane : 11/23/2021 7:02 pm : link
take the best available players at your selections and build the team with top talent
RE: RE: RE: People aren’t factoring in  
Go Terps : 11/23/2021 7:08 pm : link
In comment 15465377 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 15465051 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15465034 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


That you can’t miss on a QB prospect this year of you go that route. Picking the wrong QB sets you back another 2-3 years. This is why I’m against the taking a 2nd route QB route.



This is not true. It's ok to miss, and it does not set you back 2-3 years.

What sets you back 2-3 years is failing to admit that you made a mistake. The Giants made a mistake drafting Jones - they could easily have rectified that a year later by drafting Herbert. It just requires a change of mindset and a removal of sentimentality from decision making. People act like it's impossible or impractical but it isn't.

Don't be afraid to pick a quarterback again. Don't be afraid to acknowledge you missed if you did.



I’m with you. Always have been. But after 24 tds his rookie year in 12 games, there was zero chance of them drafting Herbert.


Of course - because they weren't objective. An objective analysis would have concluded that Herbert + whatever they got in trade for Jones (call it a second rounder at the time, but it probably would have been a first) is better than keeping Jones. There is zero, ZERO chance that they had a higher grade on Jones than they did on Herbert.

A deeper look at Jones's rookie year and you could see the red flags. Shit, I saw them and I know fuck-all. They had to know it on the building too. Had to.
RE: RE: People aren’t factoring in  
EricJ : 11/23/2021 7:11 pm : link
In comment 15465051 Go Terps said:
Quote:

What sets you back 2-3 years is failing to admit that you made a mistake.


This organization will NOT admit they made a mistake and they take forever to part with people.

So, although moving on from him may have been the right thing to do, that is not how the people here are wired. They find REASONS TO BELIEVE AND FORGIVE. It is a huge organizational flaw.

Remember, they also held onto Eli longer than they should have for sentimental reasons.

I saw a video (I am pissed that I cannot find it) that was fairly telling. It was a video about Belichick or about Brady. However, it was a clip of the Pats warming up on the field at Metlife. Possibly a pre-season game.

Anyway, Belichik is mic'd up for this and he is telling Brady about how this organization never fires anyone (other than a coach). They have the same people working in the same jobs for decades. Both Bill and Tom laughed at that in a way that made the Giants organization seem like a bunch of dinosoars.

So, I share that story to help provide even more clarity to why I believe the Giants not only would never have given up on a 1st round QB selection so soon and why they still may let him start another year for us.
Not thrilled  
g56blue10 : 11/23/2021 7:53 pm : link
With the incoming QB class.. I would keep Jones but decline is 5th year.. hope we can get one of the top two ER and then 2 O linemen with the next 2 picks
They're in the worst possible situation,  
darren in pdx : 11/23/2021 8:04 pm : link
Jones is either a lame duck QB next year, they sign a stop-gap QB that's not better than Jones but will get more money than they're worth, or they use their draft capital on a rookie this year that is most likely won't be worth the capital. And it doesn't matter who the QB is anyway because the rest of the roster isn't good enough to compete in a time where the majority of the league is bad.
It’s not rocket science  
armstead98 : 11/23/2021 8:32 pm : link
Do your best to upgrade the position, no need to trade or release Jones. Let the best man start
Given the unimpressive QB class  
Beer Man : 11/23/2021 9:06 pm : link
I would hold off on a QB and do what DG should have done a few years back. Ignore the shiny skilled players and go into the first three rounds looking to get two OL, a premiere ER, and a LB. Build the trenches, and this is a good draft to do it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: People aren’t factoring in  
OBJRoyal : 11/24/2021 7:48 am : link
In comment 15465413 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15465377 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 15465051 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15465034 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


That you can’t miss on a QB prospect this year of you go that route. Picking the wrong QB sets you back another 2-3 years. This is why I’m against the taking a 2nd route QB route.



This is not true. It's ok to miss, and it does not set you back 2-3 years.

What sets you back 2-3 years is failing to admit that you made a mistake. The Giants made a mistake drafting Jones - they could easily have rectified that a year later by drafting Herbert. It just requires a change of mindset and a removal of sentimentality from decision making. People act like it's impossible or impractical but it isn't.

Don't be afraid to pick a quarterback again. Don't be afraid to acknowledge you missed if you did.



I’m with you. Always have been. But after 24 tds his rookie year in 12 games, there was zero chance of them drafting Herbert.



Of course - because they weren't objective. An objective analysis would have concluded that Herbert + whatever they got in trade for Jones (call it a second rounder at the time, but it probably would have been a first) is better than keeping Jones. There is zero, ZERO chance that they had a higher grade on Jones than they did on Herbert.

A deeper look at Jones's rookie year and you could see the red flags. Shit, I saw them and I know fuck-all. They had to know it on the building too. Had to.


100% spot on. There was zero downside to drafting Herbert and dealing Jones. Zero
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: People aren’t factoring in  
Matt M. : 11/24/2021 7:59 am : link
In comment 15465748 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
In comment 15465413 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15465377 The_Boss said:


Quote:


In comment 15465051 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15465034 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


That you can’t miss on a QB prospect this year of you go that route. Picking the wrong QB sets you back another 2-3 years. This is why I’m against the taking a 2nd route QB route.



This is not true. It's ok to miss, and it does not set you back 2-3 years.

What sets you back 2-3 years is failing to admit that you made a mistake. The Giants made a mistake drafting Jones - they could easily have rectified that a year later by drafting Herbert. It just requires a change of mindset and a removal of sentimentality from decision making. People act like it's impossible or impractical but it isn't.

Don't be afraid to pick a quarterback again. Don't be afraid to acknowledge you missed if you did.



I’m with you. Always have been. But after 24 tds his rookie year in 12 games, there was zero chance of them drafting Herbert.



Of course - because they weren't objective. An objective analysis would have concluded that Herbert + whatever they got in trade for Jones (call it a second rounder at the time, but it probably would have been a first) is better than keeping Jones. There is zero, ZERO chance that they had a higher grade on Jones than they did on Herbert.

A deeper look at Jones's rookie year and you could see the red flags. Shit, I saw them and I know fuck-all. They had to know it on the building too. Had to.



100% spot on. There was zero downside to drafting Herbert and dealing Jones. Zero
I don't think anyone was giving up a 1st round round pick for him. I don't even know what they would get now. A 3?
What  
WestCoastGiant56 : 11/24/2021 11:23 am : link
Happens if we decide to keep Jones, and he has another mediocre season next year and we are 6-11? We likely won’t have the draft capital to get a top qb and will either have to let Jones walk for nothing or sign him to a bad contract. It’s a no win situation.

The next gm must have a forward view. He would either decide to go all in on Jones now or cut ties. You can’t have a lame duck qb plan. Personally, I would try an option D, trade Jones and go get Russell Wilson or even Aaron Rodgers. I don’t think age is much of a factor in this day and age and a top qb can make the team (oline, receivers) considerably better.
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