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| What is clear, though, is this: Whatever Mara and Steve Tisch have been doing for the last decade simply isn’t working. They have to at least be open to trying something new. Everything, from their talent evaluation to their player development has proven to be off. The pathetic record speaks for itself. |
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| There’s no halfway when you’ve been as bad as they’ve been for that long,” said one NFL source. “Cosmetic changes aren’t good enough. They always say they’re willing to do things differently. We’re about to find out if they’re serious.” “Either they really want to change things and fix their problems,” said another league source, “or they don’t.” |
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| “When push comes to shove, they always prefer to stick with what they know,” said an NFL source. “But if you only listen to people in your system, how are things ever going to be any different?” |
I believe Chris Pettit was promoted to director around this time. I actually grew up with one of the scouts and know he is still there for over 10 years. I was clicking on some of the names and like the thread alludes, there are long time tenures here.
When a new GM is brought in - do they typically overturn the scouting department?
I hope they've got a pair and go outside the organization for a legitimate fresh start.
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of having the family intertwined in running/operating the football operations. They should have a voice but it should be more of listening role and responding versus driving the bus. I also don't think they do drive the bus at an alarming level that many of the posters surmise on here, and despite the titles you see on the Giant website. The GM drives.
Get a competent GM that is a good evaluator of talent and the family stuff will fall in line or be irrelevant...
I believe you are correct. DG made changes. But he either is a poor evaluator of talent or misinterpreted the scouting reports.
His biggest problem was he knew the oline sucked, proclaimed he would fix it and then failed to do so.
He is an awful evaluator of talent and gauging the competency of the roster/units. Plain and clearly seen over the past 4 years.
Add in being outmatched in terms of how to utilize his available cap space and higher picks, and you have a disaster...
I believe Chris Pettit was promoted to director around this time. I actually grew up with one of the scouts and know he is still there for over 10 years. I was clicking on some of the names and like the thread alludes, there are long time tenures here.
When a new GM is brought in - do they typically overturn the scouting department?
Some are let go. Unless it is clearly evident a regional guy is missing good players or missing on his evals(as was done in the SE guy last year?) most are retained. It is fairly easy for a new GM to review recommendations and reports to see how eachscout did vs results on the field.
Since the rosters have been crap since he took over (2011), you have to assess he SUCKS at his job. But since he OWNS the team, he ain’t going anywhere. Thus, the team has to get real lucky to improve.
Since the rosters have been crap since he took over (2011), you have to assess he SUCKS at his job. But since he OWNS the team, he ain’t going anywhere. Thus, the team has to get real lucky to improve.
Absolutely correct. Hard to fire one of the owners if he does not want to be fired. I don't know how Jerry Jones son did it, but perhaps Jerry himself realized he sucked at drafting and moved on himself. Perhaps Steve Tisch can push him to a less responsible position.
You have to make the right picks and find the right coach. I don't see any evidence that Abrams would be worse at that than someone else.
Since the rosters have been crap since he took over (2011), you have to assess he SUCKS at his job. But since he OWNS the team, he ain’t going anywhere. Thus, the team has to get real lucky to improve.
He may be on the same tier as the GM, but those responsibilities are not his, they are Gettleman's.
Chris Mara, with his title, just gets to see the sausage being made and put in his two cents...
My instinct is he will be more of the same we've seen for the past ten years, and I'd rather start from scratch.
I hope they've got a pair and go outside the organization for a legitimate fresh start.
I'd say that promoting either Abrams or Petit would be the worst choice they could make, but it isn't, promoting Tim McDonnell would be. Even "going outside the organization", while a drastic improvement, wouldn't be the panacea we're looking for. That would be hiring someone from outside the org to run all football ops. I just don't see the Mara's giving that up.
This has all been reported by Gettleman, John Mara and Chris Abrams in various articles and statements made.
Are you saying that wasn't real change?
Well. it didn't goddam work, did it?
When Mara fired Jerry Reese in 2017, he interviewed the following candidates for GM: Marc Ross, Dave Gettleman, Kevin Abrams, Louis Riddick. He went with the guy Ernie recommended.
In each search, the Giants only brought in one candidate from outside of their own building.. and both times it was who had been on TV.
Do you think Mara will pay Ernie to consult on the next GM search too, or do you think he will simply ask Gettleman for his recommendation, who will be Abrams?
Buckle up!
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because their long standing plan to ride DG off into the sunset and elevate Abrams is nearly at hand, at a time when it's apparent there's rot inside the organization going unresolved.
I hope they've got a pair and go outside the organization for a legitimate fresh start.
I'd say that promoting either Abrams or Petit would be the worst choice they could make, but it isn't, promoting Tim McDonnell would be. Even "going outside the organization", while a drastic improvement, wouldn't be the panacea we're looking for. That would be hiring someone from outside the org to run all football ops. I just don't see the Mara's giving that up.
Nor me. I was hopeful scouting would really uptick under Petit and perhaps he'd be a better path forward. But, that has not come to pass either.
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and changed everything they did relative to player personnel and evaluation, college scouting, use of outside scouting firms, setting up draft board, and then later adding or improving use of analytics. He replaced a number of scouts and also hired a number of other people in the Front Office in 2019 and 2020 in continuing this revamping.
This has all been reported by Gettleman, John Mara and Chris Abrams in various articles and statements made.
Are you saying that wasn't real change?
Well. it didn't goddam work, did it?
Change doesn't always work. Especially poorly thought-out and executed change from a guy that isn't good at being a General Manager. That doesn't mean you don't keep trying, but have to find the right guy.
goddamn it...
As far as ownership(Mara), they are gradually adapting to change, but violated they’re own game plan:
Hog mollies( 🤣🤣)to
Run the ball;
Stop the run(it’s ok);
Play good D( schizo D)
I’m not addressing DJ because he’s been beaten past recognition on BBI,
but in a draft strong in OL we draft none in ‘21; fortunately we get a mulligan in 22. We keep , draft, or overpay for WR. No LB.
And a host of faux pas.
Avoiding , likely, 2 player number retirements is a silent confession and a double embarrassment.
As long as they are deeply into there own ONCE A GIANT … select acclaim, little will change.
But there’s hope.
"The Giants’ handling of Garrett demonstrates the perils of sticking with someone despite evidence they’re not up to the task. There’s a balance between being impulsive and being late to address a problem. Having that sense is an essential skill for leaders. It’s something the Giants brass hasn’t shown in recent years."
WHAT?! this is exactly what they've been doing since the end of 2014. half steps, finger in the dyke nonsense. All it breeds is chaos and a room full of people with different agendas and loyalties.
You have to make the right picks and find the right coach. I don't see any evidence that Abrams would be worse at that than someone else.
You know you can hire someone with former GM experience, right?
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Doubtful.
How many other teams have won 4 or more Super Bowls? How many have not? After you find out those numbers, then we can talk about if the Giant way is working or not.
That's such a lame take.
By that metric, we can never criticize the Cowboys, who haven't won a Super Bowl in 26 years, but hey - they won 5. And WFT used to be BBI's favorite whipping boy, but they won 3, so can't bag on them.
The Giants won 4 Super Bowls, that's accurate. They also have had double-digit losses for the past four years and are screaming toward a fifth straight year of 10+ losses this season.
That also counts. If you want to admire your Giants championship DVDs, have at it. I'd rather have a team that has a genuine chance to win every weekend.
Loser fans defending a loser team.
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everyone keeps saying that they definitely don't want Abrams as GM and they want some other guy from some other organization. Perfectly fine to have that opinion but Abrams would have just as much experience as a GM than someone else - no experience.
You have to make the right picks and find the right coach. I don't see any evidence that Abrams would be worse at that than someone else.
You know you can hire someone with former GM experience, right?
It's unclear exactly what Ryan knows. It certainly isn't much about football.