I have seen a ton of people on this board sour on Joe Judge this season. I wanted to see what the general consensus on this board was about him.
I still believe in Joe Judge. I think he’s a leader of men, and he gets his guys to play hard for him. I think he should have a strong say on who the next GM is, once Gettleman is fired at the end of the year. I think in the modern NFL, you need a GM that works for the Head Coach. You want the Head Coach to be President of the organization. I also don’t want another head coach every 2 years. If we fire Judge it would 4 head coaches in a matter of 6 seasons. Continuity is key for any organization to succeed.
I know some will not agree. I agree that his in game coaching hasn’t been great this season, but I think it’s part of the growing process. I’m willing to give time to learn on the job.
That said, I wonder how much he's coaching around the flawed roster DG has given him and just trying to mitigate damage sometimes. And I expect that he'll be back next year no matter what, barring a complete implosion in the locker room, because I can't see Mara paying three head coaches at the same time. There's still another year left on Shurmur's contract, and Judge has three more himself. I don't think the clock is ticking on Judge until the clock is also ticking on Shurmur's contract, for better or worse.
Likely attempt two to replace Eli not far behind.
This is pretty much the way I feel. I hope he can turn it around but I'm not confident he will. I think he is in over his head and the roster (especially the OL) will sink him.
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In comment 15465891 japanhead said:
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coughlin > mcadoo > shurmur > judge
Yep. I wanted Shurmur gone but this guy makes him look like a true genius of the gridiron.
You're nuts if you'd take Shurmur over Judge.
They have pretty similar records, and Shurmur is a proven top OC in the league at least. It's not so nuts.
I think if we had kept Shurmur last year, we would've won the NFC East due to the COVID offseason, and Jones would look a lot better than he has looked under Garrett's guidance.
This isn't an argument that we actually should've kept Shurmur, mind you.
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In comment 15465948 Route 9 said:
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In comment 15465891 japanhead said:
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coughlin > mcadoo > shurmur > judge
Yep. I wanted Shurmur gone but this guy makes him look like a true genius of the gridiron.
You're nuts if you'd take Shurmur over Judge.
They have pretty similar records, and Shurmur is a proven top OC in the league at least. It's not so nuts.
I think if we had kept Shurmur last year, we would've won the NFC East due to the COVID offseason, and Jones would look a lot better than he has looked under Garrett's guidance.
This isn't an argument that we actually should've kept Shurmur, mind you.
I don't disagree with this. A sad state of affairs we have here. Ugh.
He needs to coach like someone who wants to win. He coaches now like he has the more talented team coming off the bus every week.
He needs to do what Parcells did when the walls started closing in on him. Say “If I’m going down, I’m going down doing it MY way.”
I’m all for giving him one more season before passing final judgement.
Seriously, wtf does Judge do well except spew bromides and coach speak at the podium?
Seriously, wtf does Judge do well except spew bromides and coach speak at the podium?
Hard to argue against this. He is the anti-thesis of Gettleman in that regard. He sounds professional and in control.
But like Gettleman, unfortunately, he is looking less and less competent.
I have a TBD for now. Lose all the remaining division games he should be gone. 1-3 is very shaky. Put some pressure on him and see how he responds and gets his team to play.
As an in-game coach, he has been disappointing. He's also a "CEO" type of coach rather than a guy who can take over OC/DC play-calling duties.
Right now, I see a limited HC whose supposed strengths haven't really translated on the field.
I'm willing to give him a couple more years because the roster construction is clearly a problem and not his fault, and I still do like his personality much more than our other recent coaches since Coughlin. But he needs to start showing improvement. Right now he's all talk.
Talent is deficient? Can you find a way to SCHEME with what you DO have? To me, that would be good coaching.
Plus, the team coming out the way they did on Monday after two whole weeks to 'prepare'....as Judge would say "to be honest with you" that's on the coaching staff.
JJ needs to go imho. But he won't so this sucks.
This.
The guy has left a lot to be desired this season. From time management, to execution, to aggressiveness. I've reached the end of my rope with him. He either finishes this season incredibly strong or I'm out.
Enough with the talk, win football games on a regular basis.
Bill Walsh literally created the West Coast offense b/c the QB couldn't throw down the field.
The rest of the season will determine if Judge is or isn't HC material. If they stumble on O - which is the biggest deficiency on this team - then he can't scapegoat anyone.
Did any reporter ask him about that drive before halftime against TB? That was really bizarre.
The defense has been ass. Against TB with two weeks to prepare first series marched down the field never seeing 3rd or gaining leas than 5 yards on a play. Four times this year Giants had the lead or tied in 4th quarter and D gave it up. Special teams have been good really. When you start inside the 20 on every kickoff, and the opposing team never does, how is that good. Judge could have said no to Garrett, but just as he coaches he was too much of a coward.
Part of coaching includes teaching blocking. But let me guess the Giants get the only linemen in the NFL that can’t not be coached up. Opening press conference they were gonna be teachers, if anything they made Thomas worse until he went back and did what he was taught at Georgia. How many players have they coached up, seems like every player they get gets worse when Judge and crew start teaching.
I don't even think our Special Teams are a good unit and certainly aren't a plus unit. A lot of games it seems like they take dumb penalties and let's not forget that off sides on the field goal team in Washington cost us a win.
All Judge does is talk a good game. No one is pointing out anything else that he does well because Judge hasn't done anything well here at NYG except talk. And even for a "CEO type" of head coach, talk is simply not enough.
Maybe Joe Judge should have Pat Hanlon's job?
To go into this season with Solder not only on the roster but as a starter is criminal and gloating that "we like our guys better than everyone else" really highlights a potential ego issue.
Passing on a 2nd rd talent in the 6th at a position of need for a RB is another example of poor decision making (and yes I'm aware of the medical red flags but that's why you don't take him in the 2nd rd)
Allowing the Garrett experiment to scuttle two years.
There are multiple examples of his poor decision making. I'm fine with giving him a 3rd year bc with the exception of a Jim Zorn melt down 3 years is the minimum we should've expected to give a hit with no experience.
That said I'm not holding my breath. Though i hope I'm wrong
Forgot that he was gonna bring toughness. Wonder when that will arrive. Softest team on the planet.
Daniel Jones sucks and has zero pre and post snap awareness
Jason Garrett is a horrible offensive coordinator
The offensive line is pathetic
Joe Judge is a horrible coach
What's the counter argument? That he hasn't yet finished his second year? Fine. But that doesn't make me believe in him at all. Give him another year and I would expect similar results with a similar talent level on the roster.
Mara went with a Giants linked coach through Bill B. And Judge talks a big game. He has yet to back anything up. And I think he just blew another timeout.
What's the counter argument? That he hasn't yet finished his second year? Fine. But that doesn't make me believe in him at all. Give him another year and I would expect similar results with a similar talent level on the roster.
Mara went with a Giants linked coach through Bill B. And Judge talks a big game. He has yet to back anything up. And I think he just blew another timeout.
I’d actually wipe his slate clean after this year. He came in to “build a program” but he’s had no say in the most important aspects of the franchise.
I’d actually wipe his slate clean after this year. He came in to “build a program” but he’s had no say in the most important aspects of the franchise.
He hasn’t shown he isn’t even capable of managing a game, he is not an offensive mind (what would his own QB be) he doesn’t design offenses. What’s he gonna build? He just needs to go, he needs to go work at HS or a D3 college and work on his coaching skills. Design a play or scheme a defense; show that he has any NFL coaching qualities.
You need the head coach to pick an outstanding staff and while we may have the largest staff, i doubt anyone would think we have a good one, let alone a great one. Most importantly the HC must pick the players who can contribute most to a winning team. So far I see Judge overweight ST rather than position players who give a team a chance to win.
He may learn and progress but he’s not there yet. Will he get the time, does he deserve the time?
Clearly there is not.
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Seriously, wtf does Judge do well except spew bromides and coach speak at the podium?
Hard to argue against this. He is the anti-thesis of Gettleman in that regard. He sounds professional and in control.
But like Gettleman, unfortunately, he is looking less and less competent.
The mob here would have wanted Parcells out in 83, many of the criticisms here apply to Parcells that season
I don’t really have a choice.
Fans are not privy to too much context to make definitive statements regarding much of what’s happening.
That doesn’t mean that they won’t guess right, just that they don’t know.
I hope he/they get this shit right though.
I don’t think he has the team’s attention which is a big problem. I’d say it’s 50/50 he’s back.
I think he ought to tell the entire team they are all on tryout status for next year for the balance of this season. He needs to send a hard message and now.
I think the difference is Bill had George Young who was working closely with Bill to put the right kind of roster together. It did not hurt to have LT either.
Right now, with this organization, roster and leadership... I dont know how many young coaches can come in here and be successful.
My prior comment does not excuse any of the bone head in game clock management decisions that Judge has made.
I think the difference is Bill had George Young who was working closely with Bill to put the right kind of roster together. It did not hurt to have LT either.
Right now, with this organization, roster and leadership... I dont know how many young coaches can come in here and be successful.
My prior comment does not excuse any of the bone head in game clock management decisions that Judge has made.
This is a great post. It’s my biggest reason for wiping Judge’s slate clean after the season. Judge came in to rebuild the team and establish a culture, yet his entry point was chaotic. He came in and inherited a controversial 2nd year QB which he was not apart of the evaluation process. He inherited a lame duck GM which was clearly on the hot seat. And he inherited a crappy OL. It’s also becoming clear he was heavily influenced by Mara on the Garrett hire, Garrett is not one of his guys, never was.
So what has happened since Judge arrived? I’d argue the Andrew Thomas pick has been the best 1st round pick in the Gettleman era, did Judge have any influence? Idk, but he has ties to Georgia with his relationships.
Is it just a coincidence that the Giants traded down multiple times last year? Maybe. Maybe it was all Gettleman, but history would not support that. The Giants are now set up with numerous picks in the 2022 draft.
Judge is bogged down by the mistakes of 2018 & 2019 still which he was not apart of.
We can tell he's someone who speaks/presents himself well, but impressing our inept owner is not the same as being a good coach. The result during his tenure speaks for itself, there is no arguing around that.
So then the talent argument, but we all saw what going from Fisher to McVay did for the Rams. Having a dynamic coach uplifts the entire roster, you don't need to plug HoF'ers at each position before you can start to evaluate a coach.
He's obviously a manager, and doesn't bring a system of his own when it comes to the offense or defense, so we can only evaluate him as a game manager. Let's look at his coaching style and in-game decisions, all horrible. Playing not-to-lose, being clueless about TO's, those are the only conclusions you can draw during these two years. His area of expertise, the special team, hasn't been anything special.
So what does he bring to the table? Except being more animated after losses during press conferences compared to the last 2 coaches? Nothing.
But there is no reason to agonize if he's staying or not, he is. Frankly that's not the most important issue right now. What's important is finding out if Jones is the QB of the future.
Like Smykowski from Office Space.