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Do you still believe in Joe Judge?

JoeyBigBlue : 11/24/2021 9:39 am
I have seen a ton of people on this board sour on Joe Judge this season. I wanted to see what the general consensus on this board was about him.

I still believe in Joe Judge. I think he’s a leader of men, and he gets his guys to play hard for him. I think he should have a strong say on who the next GM is, once Gettleman is fired at the end of the year. I think in the modern NFL, you need a GM that works for the Head Coach. You want the Head Coach to be President of the organization. I also don’t want another head coach every 2 years. If we fire Judge it would 4 head coaches in a matter of 6 seasons. Continuity is key for any organization to succeed.

I know some will not agree. I agree that his in game coaching hasn’t been great this season, but I think it’s part of the growing process. I’m willing to give time to learn on the job.
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Yes  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 11/24/2021 9:42 am : link
though he needs to be more aggresive
......  
Route 9 : 11/24/2021 9:42 am : link
No
No  
HomerJones45 : 11/24/2021 9:42 am : link
over his head and out of his depth.
Not really  
Ben in Tampa : 11/24/2021 9:43 am : link
But I guess he’s got the rest of the season to prove me wrong
I was last year....not so much this year  
Jints in Carolina : 11/24/2021 9:46 am : link
.
Absolutely Not  
Essex : 11/24/2021 9:46 am : link
our team is a disaster and that does not mean only record. That play Orlosky was showing yesterday just encompassed how Judge is all talk about being a teacher. To have three guys bunched up like that without any attention to detail is criminal. That Golladay not blocking on the screen wanted to make me throw my remote at the TV. The way we were so disorganized on the fourth down play at 17-10 was disgraceful. He is all talk and no action. Just a typical blowhard.

He may have conned the Mara's into getting him a head coaching job, but he can't leave soon enough in my book.
The only worse than having another new coach after 2 years  
Metnut : 11/24/2021 9:48 am : link
Is keeping an obvious failure around longer and wasting years. See the Bears and Nagy for an example.

Maybe Judge isn’t a failure, but it’s trending that way without a quick turnaround.
they definitely didn't appear to play hard for him monday night.  
japanhead : 11/24/2021 9:51 am : link
that was one of the worst and sloppiest and disinterested performances i've seen from NYG since.. well, the denver game to open the season.

here is another thing. joe judge doesn't call plays, doesn't run the offense, doesn't run the defense. yet he is still horrifying at time out useage, challenges, and clock management. what the hell does he do on the sideline on game days? just pace around be a "CEO type"?

it is really quite remarkable that the giants appear to have gotten worse with every coaching hire since forcing coughlin to resign in 2016.

coughlin > mcadoo > shurmur > judge

and remarkably, despite being tight up against the cap, the roster looks to be in worse shape and even more injury prone than when reese and ross were fired at the end of 2017

just a total fail on every level.
RE: Absolutely Not  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/24/2021 9:51 am : link
In comment 15465882 Essex said:
Quote:
our team is a disaster and that does not mean only record. That play Orlosky was showing yesterday just encompassed how Judge is all talk about being a teacher. To have three guys bunched up like that without any attention to detail is criminal. That Golladay not blocking on the screen wanted to make me throw my remote at the TV. The way we were so disorganized on the fourth down play at 17-10 was disgraceful. He is all talk and no action. Just a typical blowhard.

He may have conned the Mara's into getting him a head coaching job, but he can't leave soon enough in my book.



He’s not the one drawing up and calling plays. I think it’s an unfair criticism of Judge.
The odd thing is the complete regression managing games  
JonC : 11/24/2021 9:51 am : link
in real time. His 2021 team is undisciplined and a mistakes machine, his coordinator hires are poor (Graham's had a few good to very good games, but often it's the opposite). Judge is clearly learning on the job and not hiding from it, but his conservative approach in 2021 trying to keep games close so they can pull them out their arse in the end is weak sauce. So, he's losing me at this point. Can he turn it around ...
RE: The only worse than having another new coach after 2 years  
Essex : 11/24/2021 9:51 am : link
In comment 15465886 Metnut said:
Quote:
Is keeping an obvious failure around longer and wasting years. See the Bears and Nagy for an example.

Maybe Judge isn’t a failure, but it’s trending that way without a quick turnaround.

I am not sitting around here pining for Pat Shurmur, he was not a good coach by any stretch, but he was a heckuva lot more deserving of a third year than Judge. Shurmur legitimately had the offense playing well. What unit has Judge improved? The defense is awful, the offense is terrible, and the ST are constant liabilities (besides Gano). Of the three 2 year coaches, Judge is the least deserving of a third season.
For those who say no, I’m just curious  
Sean : 11/24/2021 9:52 am : link
Are of the belief that Gettleman has provided him a playoff caliber roster?
I believe he was hired as inexperienced coach  
UberAlias : 11/24/2021 9:52 am : link
Who was going to make mistakes as he learns. I believe he has made a lot of them. I also believe we can’t keep turning over coaches every 2 years and need to give the man a chance to turn it around. Whether he will or won’t I have no idea. It’s not been good so far but roster sucks as Garret was garbage. Judge may be too or maybe not. But firing Garrett was step in the right direction. Now let’s see where it goes from here. A win over a Philly would sure feel good right now, wouldn’t it?
RE: RE: Absolutely Not  
Essex : 11/24/2021 9:52 am : link
In comment 15465893 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15465882 Essex said:


Quote:


our team is a disaster and that does not mean only record. That play Orlosky was showing yesterday just encompassed how Judge is all talk about being a teacher. To have three guys bunched up like that without any attention to detail is criminal. That Golladay not blocking on the screen wanted to make me throw my remote at the TV. The way we were so disorganized on the fourth down play at 17-10 was disgraceful. He is all talk and no action. Just a typical blowhard.

He may have conned the Mara's into getting him a head coaching job, but he can't leave soon enough in my book.




He’s not the one drawing up and calling plays. I think it’s an unfair criticism of Judge.

It is unfair that the CEO be blamed for a total lack of attention on of the three units he oversees. He is not responsible for his OC and how that product is on the field week in and week out? That is news to me.
No  
jeff57 : 11/24/2021 9:53 am : link
But then I never had much belief in him because he was a strange choice to begin with.
RE: The only worse than having another new coach after 2 years  
Scooter185 : 11/24/2021 9:54 am : link
In comment 15465886 Metnut said:
Quote:
Is keeping an obvious failure around longer and wasting years. See the Bears and Nagy for an example.

Maybe Judge isn’t a failure, but it’s trending that way without a quick turnaround.


Exactly. Keeping the wrong person in place for the sake of consistency is exactly why we had to watch JG keep calling plays until yesterday.
RE: For those who say no, I’m just curious  
Essex : 11/24/2021 9:54 am : link
In comment 15465896 Sean said:
Quote:
Are of the belief that Gettleman has provided him a playoff caliber roster?

No, Gettleman needs to go as well. But, you can evaluate a coach based on how his team performs. What about that crapfest on Monday would you want back. Three receivers bunched up? Golladay not blocking. The confusion on every down. The defense with three aligned back. I mean it was an embarrassment and he is the head coach.
No  
Tom from LI : 11/24/2021 9:56 am : link
I was luke warm with him in the first place. They are not a very well coached team.

I can see if they were executing but didn't have the horses to compete.. but they are sloppy and undisciplined.

I believe they do not have the correct philosophies in place. You play a bend don't break defense if you have an offense that can run the ball effectively to shorten the game and keep the game close.

The problem is that it is not a bend don't break, it is a bend and eventually collapse defense. Marry that with this offense that has absolutely no identity.. and a head coach that is constantly calling time outs and you have the 2021 Giants.

Gentlemen, Judge, Graham, Garret and the rest of the coaches are all at fault.

We need a new culture/leadership from the GM down.

You can't keep piecemealing this together.

Clean house.

Fresh blood is needed here.
Very skeptical  
section125 : 11/24/2021 9:56 am : link
at this point. He seems befuddled, unsure.
RE: The odd thing is the complete regression managing games  
Sammo85 : 11/24/2021 9:57 am : link
In comment 15465894 JonC said:
Quote:
in real time. His 2021 team is undisciplined and a mistakes machine, his coordinator hires are poor (Graham's had a few good to very good games, but often it's the opposite). Judge is clearly learning on the job and not hiding from it, but his conservative approach in 2021 trying to keep games close so they can pull them out their arse in the end is weak sauce. So, he's losing me at this point. Can he turn it around ...


Yup. I was not a fan of the hire, but was willing to see for couple yrs. So far, I'm not impressed outside of a brief stretch of games last year where they played disciplined hard-nosed football (albeit kind of unwatchable at times from an excitement level/play).

But, I don't see a real concrete grasp of program-build/philosophy either, nevermind the game management. The whole operation feels mucky frankly from top to bottom.
RE: RE: RE: Absolutely Not  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/24/2021 9:57 am : link
In comment 15465898 Essex said:
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In comment 15465893 JoeyBigBlue said:


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In comment 15465882 Essex said:


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our team is a disaster and that does not mean only record. That play Orlosky was showing yesterday just encompassed how Judge is all talk about being a teacher. To have three guys bunched up like that without any attention to detail is criminal. That Golladay not blocking on the screen wanted to make me throw my remote at the TV. The way we were so disorganized on the fourth down play at 17-10 was disgraceful. He is all talk and no action. Just a typical blowhard.

He may have conned the Mara's into getting him a head coaching job, but he can't leave soon enough in my book.




He’s not the one drawing up and calling plays. I think it’s an unfair criticism of Judge.


It is unfair that the CEO be blamed for a total lack of attention on of the three units he oversees. He is not responsible for his OC and how that product is on the field week in and week out? That is news to me.


Garrett was thrust upon him by ownership. Judge saw a huge problem developing on his team and eliminated the problem. His defensive teams and special teams have been solid. His offense was ran by failure and he got rid of him.
Last year Judge seemed like he was the steady hand amidst  
Jimmy Googs : 11/24/2021 9:59 am : link
a tough situation with the poor roster, implementing his processes, and doing it in a covid backdrop as a first year HC. Figured he would be getting more involved in personnel decisions too based on commentary from Front Office.

This year he looks like he is overwhelmed by a lot of it and acting somewhat desperate...
He needs to do a much better  
Simms11 : 11/24/2021 10:00 am : link
job of managing games, buy I think he could be a good leader of his team. That hasn't waned at all.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Absolutely Not  
Essex : 11/24/2021 10:01 am : link
In comment 15465912 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15465898 Essex said:


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In comment 15465893 JoeyBigBlue said:


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In comment 15465882 Essex said:


Quote:


our team is a disaster and that does not mean only record. That play Orlosky was showing yesterday just encompassed how Judge is all talk about being a teacher. To have three guys bunched up like that without any attention to detail is criminal. That Golladay not blocking on the screen wanted to make me throw my remote at the TV. The way we were so disorganized on the fourth down play at 17-10 was disgraceful. He is all talk and no action. Just a typical blowhard.

He may have conned the Mara's into getting him a head coaching job, but he can't leave soon enough in my book.




He’s not the one drawing up and calling plays. I think it’s an unfair criticism of Judge.


It is unfair that the CEO be blamed for a total lack of attention on of the three units he oversees. He is not responsible for his OC and how that product is on the field week in and week out? That is news to me.



Garrett was thrust upon him by ownership. Judge saw a huge problem developing on his team and eliminated the problem. His defensive teams and special teams have been solid. His offense was ran by failure and he got rid of him.

I don't agree with you at all in terms of defense and special teams, but we are all entitled to our own opinion.
Do you still believe in Joe Judge?  
M.S. : 11/24/2021 10:01 am : link

I do not.

Just watch the Giants in the last 55 seconds of first half Tampa Bay game.

Joe Judge has zero feel for the game.

But he will be Head Coach next season because John Mara will be President next season.

And that is the only reason why we'll have to put up with another year of of Joe Judge.

It's about John Mara.
Sammo  
JonC : 11/24/2021 10:01 am : link
Agreed, and then plug in all their weird draft picks and trades, and you get a team reflecting the approach. Hodge podge of parts they sold themselves on drafting or signing, just the opposite of what DG said out loud (don't talk yourself into a player(s), etc). Even looking at the few wins they've had under Judge, none of them indicated to me they were starting to ascend or were going to string something together. It's just not happening on any level of the team, they're close to flatlined.
I agree with overwhelmed and desperate  
JonC : 11/24/2021 10:02 am : link
.
No  
TyreeHelmet : 11/24/2021 10:02 am : link
He's all talk. At this point its hard to listen to the bullshit he puts out

He hasn't impressed in any area of coaching a NFL team. And the mistakes he makes in game are shocking at times.
...  
ryanmkeane : 11/24/2021 10:04 am : link
outside of the Raiders and Panthers game, there hasn't been a single game that he's coached where I felt comfortable that he was doing everything he could to win the game
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Absolutely Not  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/24/2021 10:05 am : link
In comment 15465919 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15465912 JoeyBigBlue said:



In comment 15465882 Essex said:



I don't agree with you at all in terms of defense and special teams, but we are all entitled to our own opinion.



The defense was ranked in the top 10 last season, and was performing a ton better the last 3 weeks before Tampa. He’s doing this with not 1 legit pass rusher on the team. I’m not sure of the special teams rankings, but outside of Dixon, they’ve been solid as well.
Mara and Tisch  
cjac : 11/24/2021 10:06 am : link
need to grow some balls and do what the Cardinals did a couple of years ago. Blow it the fuck up and start over. Whatever they're trying to do isn't working.

Joe Judge as a great attitude, and I think he's a good player coach, they're playing hard for him. But it is clear he is way way way over his head.

Daniel Jones is an unmitigated disaster as an NFL QB. If you want to point out all of positive of Dan Jones I'll just point to the ridiculous turnover the other night when he threw the ball right in the gut of a TB D lineman. Go find me where a good QB in the NFL has ever done that.

You have to look at this team and see that they're stuck in a swirling sucking eddy of despair and we are not moving forward, the arrow is pointing sideways and we're already on the bottom.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Absolutely Not  
TyreeHelmet : 11/24/2021 10:07 am : link
In comment 15465912 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 15465898 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 15465893 JoeyBigBlue said:


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In comment 15465882 Essex said:


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our team is a disaster and that does not mean only record. That play Orlosky was showing yesterday just encompassed how Judge is all talk about being a teacher. To have three guys bunched up like that without any attention to detail is criminal. That Golladay not blocking on the screen wanted to make me throw my remote at the TV. The way we were so disorganized on the fourth down play at 17-10 was disgraceful. He is all talk and no action. Just a typical blowhard.

He may have conned the Mara's into getting him a head coaching job, but he can't leave soon enough in my book.




He’s not the one drawing up and calling plays. I think it’s an unfair criticism of Judge.


It is unfair that the CEO be blamed for a total lack of attention on of the three units he oversees. He is not responsible for his OC and how that product is on the field week in and week out? That is news to me.



Garrett was thrust upon him by ownership. Judge saw a huge problem developing on his team and eliminated the problem. His defensive teams and special teams have been solid. His offense was ran by failure and he got rid of him.


Wow what a leader Judge is! Now that the problem was solved on offense the sky is the limit for this team...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Absolutely Not  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/24/2021 10:09 am : link
In comment 15465937 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 15465912 JoeyBigBlue said:


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In comment 15465898 Essex said:


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In comment 15465893 JoeyBigBlue said:


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In comment 15465882 Essex said:


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our team is a disaster and that does not mean only record. That play Orlosky was showing yesterday just encompassed how Judge is all talk about being a teacher. To have three guys bunched up like that without any attention to detail is criminal. That Golladay not blocking on the screen wanted to make me throw my remote at the TV. The way we were so disorganized on the fourth down play at 17-10 was disgraceful. He is all talk and no action. Just a typical blowhard.

He may have conned the Mara's into getting him a head coaching job, but he can't leave soon enough in my book.




He’s not the one drawing up and calling plays. I think it’s an unfair criticism of Judge.


It is unfair that the CEO be blamed for a total lack of attention on of the three units he oversees. He is not responsible for his OC and how that product is on the field week in and week out? That is news to me.



Garrett was thrust upon him by ownership. Judge saw a huge problem developing on his team and eliminated the problem. His defensive teams and special teams have been solid. His offense was ran by failure and he got rid of him.



Wow what a leader Judge is! Now that the problem was solved on offense the sky is the limit for this team...


It’s a start to fixing a major problem. The next thing he and the new GM need to do is fix that awful excuse for a line that we have.
RE: Mara and Tisch  
section125 : 11/24/2021 10:10 am : link
In comment 15465935 cjac said:
Quote:

Go find me where a good QB in the NFL has ever done that.



I have seen it more than few times through the years.

I also saw Eli throw a pick six on a bubble screen (against the Eagles) when he looked directly at the DB standing in front of his intended target and threw the ball anyway.
RE: they definitely didn't appear to play hard for him monday night.  
Route 9 : 11/24/2021 10:10 am : link
In comment 15465891 japanhead said:
Quote:
coughlin > mcadoo > shurmur > judge



Yep. I wanted Shurmur gone but this guy makes him look like a true genius of the gridiron.
Not really  
ron mexico : 11/24/2021 10:13 am : link
but I want to give him another year to turn it around.

Can't keep changing coaches every two years. Its not like any coach will bring us a chip next year anyway with this roster.
RE: RE: they definitely didn't appear to play hard for him monday night.  
aimrocky : 11/24/2021 10:14 am : link
In comment 15465948 Route 9 said:
Quote:
In comment 15465891 japanhead said:


Quote:


coughlin > mcadoo > shurmur > judge





Yep. I wanted Shurmur gone but this guy makes him look like a true genius of the gridiron.


You're nuts if you'd take Shurmur over Judge.
RE: RE: Mara and Tisch  
cjac : 11/24/2021 10:15 am : link
In comment 15465946 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15465935 cjac said:


Quote:



Go find me where a good QB in the NFL has ever done that.





I have seen it more than few times through the years.

I also saw Eli throw a pick six on a bubble screen (against the Eagles) when he looked directly at the DB standing in front of his intended target and threw the ball anyway.


I said good QB...




KIDDING!!!!
RE: RE: RE: they definitely didn't appear to play hard for him monday night.  
Essex : 11/24/2021 10:16 am : link
In comment 15465958 aimrocky said:
Quote:
In comment 15465948 Route 9 said:


Quote:


In comment 15465891 japanhead said:


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coughlin > mcadoo > shurmur > judge





Yep. I wanted Shurmur gone but this guy makes him look like a true genius of the gridiron.



You're nuts if you'd take Shurmur over Judge.

You would be nuts if you wanted either of them, but I think Shurmur was a much better coach if we are being honest. He got production out of the offense. Jones had 24 TDs in 12 games under Shurmur. We have 20 in the last 26 games. Really not much more needs to be said and "nuts" to describe someone wanting Shurmur over Judge is not one of them
Shurmur would've gotten more out of the offense  
JonC : 11/24/2021 10:17 am : link
without a doubt. But, he struggling to manage games and his teams reflected his personality.
He's in a Sophomore slump  
aimrocky : 11/24/2021 10:18 am : link
But I'm still on his side.

I just hope ownership doesn't tell the new GM he HAS to keep him. Let the new GM decide his fate.
Shurmur lost  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/24/2021 10:18 am : link
9 straight games in 2019. 9. Judge hasn’t close to that. Shurmur ran a decent system but he was a terrible play caller, and wasn’t a head coach. People missing Shurmur don’t know what the fuck they are taking about.
I was buying for a long time...  
bw in dc : 11/24/2021 10:19 am : link
what Judge was selling.

But he's becoming that sales guy at the company who sounds great - hits all the right notes - but when the sales report comes out he's near the bottom in closing deals. I've seen quite a few of those types...

I know Mara is very likely going to give Judge a third year, but unless we start getting more Ws here, I'm not sure anyone on this team is going to be confident in Judge heading into '22. He has an act; and that type of act can wear very thin when you aren't winning.
RE: Shurmur lost  
Essex : 11/24/2021 10:20 am : link
In comment 15465969 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
9 straight games in 2019. 9. Judge hasn’t close to that. Shurmur ran a decent system but he was a terrible play caller, and wasn’t a head coach. People missing Shurmur don’t know what the fuck they are taking about.

Nobody is missing Shurmur, we are saying why does Judge get a third year when he has been just as bad, if not worse, than Shurmur.
RE: He's in a Sophomore slump  
cjac : 11/24/2021 10:20 am : link
In comment 15465968 aimrocky said:
Quote:
But I'm still on his side.

I just hope ownership doesn't tell the new GM he HAS to keep him. Let the new GM decide his fate.


Yes, on the HC and the QB. I think that when they hired Getty and Shurmur it was with the caveat that Eli stays put which put us back 2 years. Then drafting Eli's clone put us back another 5. So now were looking at possibly having a winning season in 2024. and that is if they have the nutsack to blow it up as i mentioned earlier in this thread
From a fan perspective and watching the  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/24/2021 10:21 am : link
mental errors, penalties, sloppiness, he does not appear to be a good coach. I think the players bought into him hard but the execution is not there. He also appears to get lost in the moment and has no real explanations in PCs. Looking like he's not the guy. It's not over, let the season play out but where is the discipline? Where is the team that doesn't beat itself? I mean thats literally all they do.
I like him and I want him to succeed  
arniefez : 11/24/2021 10:22 am : link
but after a somewhat promising start (as a CEO head coach not the W/L) in 2020 he's regressed this year and looks to be in over his head.

Monday night the teams I thought the teams effort level was very poor. I'm on the fence about him but expect him back for 2022.
Yeah, absolutely fine in giving Judge another year or so as well.  
Jimmy Googs : 11/24/2021 10:23 am : link
We may have all overestimated him in year 1, but willing to see if he can reset things and get back some positive vibes...
No and Ill tell you why  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 11/24/2021 10:24 am : link
I expected Judge to come in here and get the most out of these players/ Sure, the roster sucks. Acknowledged. Do I feel that Jones has 'coached up' any of these players? Nope. Do I feel his record over nearly two years should instill confidence? Nope. He has talked a big game and his results are worse than McAdoo and on par with Shurmur. He has fired position coaches and Coordinators. Yet, I don't see anything from Judge that makes me believe in him.

What's the counter argument? That he hasn't yet finished his second year? Fine. But that doesn't make me believe in him at all. Give him another year and I would expect similar results with a similar talent level on the roster.

Mara went with a Giants linked coach through Bill B. And Judge talks a big game. He has yet to back anything up. And I think he just blew another timeout.
Jones would have been in a better place  
jeff57 : 11/24/2021 10:25 am : link
Had Shurmur stayed. Now he's on his 3rd OC in less than 3 seasons. And could very well have a fourth next season.
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