I have seen a ton of people on this board sour on Joe Judge this season. I wanted to see what the general consensus on this board was about him.
I still believe in Joe Judge. I think he’s a leader of men, and he gets his guys to play hard for him. I think he should have a strong say on who the next GM is, once Gettleman is fired at the end of the year. I think in the modern NFL, you need a GM that works for the Head Coach. You want the Head Coach to be President of the organization. I also don’t want another head coach every 2 years. If we fire Judge it would 4 head coaches in a matter of 6 seasons. Continuity is key for any organization to succeed.
I know some will not agree. I agree that his in game coaching hasn’t been great this season, but I think it’s part of the growing process. I’m willing to give time to learn on the job.
If we are to believe what has been reported, that he had significant say in personel these past two years, then you could argue that he helped put together this shit roster.
I have yet to see anything that he does that is a positive for the team. If the team is undisciplined, games are managed poorly, and he doesn't run the offense or defense, what does he do?
When a team sucks for years, the parts are usually greater than the whole. Hard to pinpoint "good" players when they are all caught in a swirling typhoon. That will be the hardest task for the next General Manager... to separate the wheat from the chaff and start anew, adding key players from the Draft and melding them with what's left over from the disaster years.
If he needs a good-great roster to win, how good can he be?
I think most of us expected more out of this roster. Since it is not forthcoming, a lot of the blame is being placed on the roster not being that good, on Garrett, on Graham.
I think a lot of the blame needs to fall on Judge as well. He simply isn't getting much out of anyone. Not his coaches, not his players, not his GM. His approach to the pre-season yielded a team not ready to play real games. His management of games is subpar. His team of coaches can't seem to consistently plan for a game, get the players to execute, or adjust during the game.
This roster, which no one is going to mistake as super bowl bound, should not be yielding as poor results as they are.
I don't, and won't, believe in any aspect of this team until results say I should believe.
But he will be back next year because John Mara is the owner of this dismal organization.
If we are to believe what has been reported, that he had significant say in personel these past two years, then you could argue that he helped put together this shit roster.
I have yet to see anything that he does that is a positive for the team. If the team is undisciplined, games are managed poorly, and he doesn't run the offense or defense, what does he do?
Agree with this. I'm not sure what Judge does or what he adds. I have no issue with a coach who delegates the O and the D. But that coach really should excel at game management, strategy, etc.
His game management has been massively flawed this year. At a fundamental level. Anyone can disagree with certain decisions, but some of his conservative decisions would indicate that he doesn't understand win probabilities or how the game is played now. I.e., defaulting to punting seemingly because "teams traditionally punt" in a give situation is bad. And shows that he doesn't understand and isn't learning basic fundamental principles of modern football.
If he doesn't manage games, doesn't do O, doesn't do D, then what is he adding to the team? I acknowledge that there is a ton of stuff we don't see with a coach. But there's nothing on the surface to indicate that he's doing a good job there either. We're not seeing amazing player development or anything.
FWIW, I don't really consume press conferences or many quotes, so my judgement is limited to what I see on the field and what I read on BBI.
I thought, all things considered, that he showed good team and game management skills last year. This year has been another story, but we all expected growing pains, and some of those come later than others. That is why I am inclined to give him another year, unless this season goes even further off the rails.
This is a 5-6 win roster and he's going to get 5-6 wins out of them, so I guess he's not killing us or anything. But I see no indication that he's helping either.
on the whole, the team is sloppy, unorganized and way too conservative- we don’t have a bell cow running back or horses on the offensive line to play ground and pound/win time of possession and we don’t have the pass rushers or linebackers on defense to give us easy three and outs and superb field position. We aren’t the 1990 Giants. The team avoids big plays on offense and tries to avoid giving up big plays on defense which leads to death by 1,000 cuts. I’m not sure if he can suddenly change his philosophy and approach to take more intelligent risks - this will define the likelihood he will get another season.
He is a well below average game manager who seems to either a) not understand the rules or b) loses focus on the game situation. He seems to have no coherent strategy to the game aside from playing a field position battle, regardless of the situation. He has no idea how to manage the clock. His desire to collect as many bottom of the roster special teams aces as possible combined with his special teams experience should mean our special teams are exceptional, but they are below average.
He is young and hopefully getting better with experience, but I don’t see anything that make me believe this guy is anything other than a career position coach.
The key is really next year, when let's all pray Gettleman will be gone, and the OLine and lack of edge rush is properly addressed. He has to get this team to better than a .500 record.
That said, I wonder how much he's coaching around the flawed roster DG has given him and just trying to mitigate damage sometimes. And I expect that he'll be back next year no matter what, barring a complete implosion in the locker room, because I can't see Mara paying three head coaches at the same time. There's still another year left on Shurmur's contract, and Judge has three more himself. I don't think the clock is ticking on Judge until the clock is also ticking on Shurmur's contract, for better or worse.
Likely attempt two to replace Eli not far behind.
This is pretty much the way I feel. I hope he can turn it around but I'm not confident he will. I think he is in over his head and the roster (especially the OL) will sink him.
Quote:
In comment 15465891 japanhead said:
Quote:
coughlin > mcadoo > shurmur > judge
Yep. I wanted Shurmur gone but this guy makes him look like a true genius of the gridiron.
You're nuts if you'd take Shurmur over Judge.
They have pretty similar records, and Shurmur is a proven top OC in the league at least. It's not so nuts.
I think if we had kept Shurmur last year, we would've won the NFC East due to the COVID offseason, and Jones would look a lot better than he has looked under Garrett's guidance.
This isn't an argument that we actually should've kept Shurmur, mind you.
Quote:
In comment 15465948 Route 9 said:
Quote:
In comment 15465891 japanhead said:
Quote:
coughlin > mcadoo > shurmur > judge
Yep. I wanted Shurmur gone but this guy makes him look like a true genius of the gridiron.
You're nuts if you'd take Shurmur over Judge.
They have pretty similar records, and Shurmur is a proven top OC in the league at least. It's not so nuts.
I think if we had kept Shurmur last year, we would've won the NFC East due to the COVID offseason, and Jones would look a lot better than he has looked under Garrett's guidance.
This isn't an argument that we actually should've kept Shurmur, mind you.
I don't disagree with this. A sad state of affairs we have here. Ugh.
He needs to coach like someone who wants to win. He coaches now like he has the more talented team coming off the bus every week.
He needs to do what Parcells did when the walls started closing in on him. Say “If I’m going down, I’m going down doing it MY way.”
I’m all for giving him one more season before passing final judgement.
Seriously, wtf does Judge do well except spew bromides and coach speak at the podium?
Seriously, wtf does Judge do well except spew bromides and coach speak at the podium?
Hard to argue against this. He is the anti-thesis of Gettleman in that regard. He sounds professional and in control.
But like Gettleman, unfortunately, he is looking less and less competent.
I have a TBD for now. Lose all the remaining division games he should be gone. 1-3 is very shaky. Put some pressure on him and see how he responds and gets his team to play.
As an in-game coach, he has been disappointing. He's also a "CEO" type of coach rather than a guy who can take over OC/DC play-calling duties.
Right now, I see a limited HC whose supposed strengths haven't really translated on the field.
I'm willing to give him a couple more years because the roster construction is clearly a problem and not his fault, and I still do like his personality much more than our other recent coaches since Coughlin. But he needs to start showing improvement. Right now he's all talk.
Talent is deficient? Can you find a way to SCHEME with what you DO have? To me, that would be good coaching.
Plus, the team coming out the way they did on Monday after two whole weeks to 'prepare'....as Judge would say "to be honest with you" that's on the coaching staff.
JJ needs to go imho. But he won't so this sucks.
This.
The guy has left a lot to be desired this season. From time management, to execution, to aggressiveness. I've reached the end of my rope with him. He either finishes this season incredibly strong or I'm out.
Enough with the talk, win football games on a regular basis.
Bill Walsh literally created the West Coast offense b/c the QB couldn't throw down the field.
The rest of the season will determine if Judge is or isn't HC material. If they stumble on O - which is the biggest deficiency on this team - then he can't scapegoat anyone.
Did any reporter ask him about that drive before halftime against TB? That was really bizarre.
The defense has been ass. Against TB with two weeks to prepare first series marched down the field never seeing 3rd or gaining leas than 5 yards on a play. Four times this year Giants had the lead or tied in 4th quarter and D gave it up. Special teams have been good really. When you start inside the 20 on every kickoff, and the opposing team never does, how is that good. Judge could have said no to Garrett, but just as he coaches he was too much of a coward.
Part of coaching includes teaching blocking. But let me guess the Giants get the only linemen in the NFL that can’t not be coached up. Opening press conference they were gonna be teachers, if anything they made Thomas worse until he went back and did what he was taught at Georgia. How many players have they coached up, seems like every player they get gets worse when Judge and crew start teaching.
I don't even think our Special Teams are a good unit and certainly aren't a plus unit. A lot of games it seems like they take dumb penalties and let's not forget that off sides on the field goal team in Washington cost us a win.
All Judge does is talk a good game. No one is pointing out anything else that he does well because Judge hasn't done anything well here at NYG except talk. And even for a "CEO type" of head coach, talk is simply not enough.
Maybe Joe Judge should have Pat Hanlon's job?
To go into this season with Solder not only on the roster but as a starter is criminal and gloating that "we like our guys better than everyone else" really highlights a potential ego issue.
Passing on a 2nd rd talent in the 6th at a position of need for a RB is another example of poor decision making (and yes I'm aware of the medical red flags but that's why you don't take him in the 2nd rd)
Allowing the Garrett experiment to scuttle two years.
There are multiple examples of his poor decision making. I'm fine with giving him a 3rd year bc with the exception of a Jim Zorn melt down 3 years is the minimum we should've expected to give a hit with no experience.
That said I'm not holding my breath. Though i hope I'm wrong
Forgot that he was gonna bring toughness. Wonder when that will arrive. Softest team on the planet.
Daniel Jones sucks and has zero pre and post snap awareness
Jason Garrett is a horrible offensive coordinator
The offensive line is pathetic
Joe Judge is a horrible coach
What's the counter argument? That he hasn't yet finished his second year? Fine. But that doesn't make me believe in him at all. Give him another year and I would expect similar results with a similar talent level on the roster.
Mara went with a Giants linked coach through Bill B. And Judge talks a big game. He has yet to back anything up. And I think he just blew another timeout.
What's the counter argument? That he hasn't yet finished his second year? Fine. But that doesn't make me believe in him at all. Give him another year and I would expect similar results with a similar talent level on the roster.
Mara went with a Giants linked coach through Bill B. And Judge talks a big game. He has yet to back anything up. And I think he just blew another timeout.
I’d actually wipe his slate clean after this year. He came in to “build a program” but he’s had no say in the most important aspects of the franchise.