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What will turn this miserable franchise around?

M.S. : 11/26/2021 10:13 am

Been thinking 'bout this an awful lot given the state of Giants, so I went back to the 1981 season in which the team finished 9-7, made the playoffs for the first time since 1963, and broke an awful 8-year losing streak in which the team compiled a gut-wrenching 33-84-1 record (.282 winning percentage).

It's hardly ever just one thing or one player that alters the trajectory of an NFL franchise, but an argument can be made that the 1981 Giants were an exception with the drafting of Lawrence Taylor. Indeed, it's not like the Giants improved that much on offense, only scoring an additional +2.9 points a game (1981 v 1980). The defense, however, let up 10.5 fewer points.

Still, there were at least a few other factors I'll throw out there that may have helped to finally flip the switch for the 1981 Giants:

(1) The in-season acquisition of Rob Carpenter after Game 4, who gained 700+ yards and solidified the run game;

(2) There were a few (not many) hi-value players already in place, such as Harry Carson and Brad Van Pelt;

(3) Subjectively, the maturing of the team under third-year Head Coach Ray Perkins.

So, what does this mean for the current franchise? Maybe nothing or maybe this: The odds of Giants drafting a once-in-a-generation player next April are extremely low. That leaves maybe three other paths (if 1981 is any guide):

(1) The Giants figure out something they can do on offense with some level of consistency and stick with it. I think it's easier to do that with the run game, but a dependable passing game will work as well. That also implies a different role for Saquon Barkley other than primary ball carrier;

(2) The Giants actually have a few hi-value players who can be depended upon to lead the team out of a deep hole. Who they are, I'm not sure;

(3) This team matures, coalesces under the third-year tenure of Joe Judge.

Free Agency did not exist in the early 1980s, but given Giants track record, it might be wise to stay pretty much clear of it.

Using NFL 1981 as any sort of benchmark for NFL 2021  
Ben in Tampa : 11/26/2021 10:17 am : link
Is folly

In many ways it’s a microcosm of the franchise, which constantly looks back instead of figuring out how to move forward
A good offensive line  
David B. : 11/26/2021 10:23 am : link
and at least 2 stud pass rushers.
RE: Using NFL 1981 as any sort of benchmark for NFL 2021  
M.S. : 11/26/2021 10:27 am : link
In comment 15467402 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
Is folly

In many ways it’s a microcosm of the franchise, which constantly looks back instead of figuring out how to move forward

It probably is folly. Game has changed a lot since then. But I think some fundamental rules still apply as time goes by, such as having a dependable, go-to offensive play call. Or, the maturing of a team around a coach they've been around for a few years.
Not until  
Giants : 11/26/2021 10:27 am : link
this OL is fixed. Will it matter who the coach, QB or RB is
1981 Let’s see what else there was.  
Ivan15 : 11/26/2021 10:29 am : link
A 3rd year GM. A 3rd year HC. A 3rd year QB with competition.

2021, a 4th year GM with previous GM experience. A 2nd year HC. A 3rd year QB with no competition.

So the current GM did not step up. The current HC is nowhere near as able as capable. The current QB has shown flashes of potential about the same as Simms.

Conclusion: Scrap the GM. Give the HC one more year. Give the QB another season and it will be 1981 all over again.
Not rocket science people  
djm : 11/26/2021 10:29 am : link
Greatness will turn this mess around.
8…..  
thrunthrublue : 11/26/2021 10:31 am : link
Has to go. Add two elements, protect the new qb, and have a ferocious pass rushing defense, then make room in the front lobby for Lombardi #5. FIRE DG.
RE: A good offensive line  
Spider56 : 11/26/2021 10:32 am : link
In comment 15467405 David B. said:
Quote:
and at least 2 stud pass rushers.


The Giants may already have 2 very good ERs in Azeez and Roche. The problem is their dumbass defensive schemes also ask these guys to cover RBs too, something they are not very good at. PG would probably use Micah Parsons the same way. 1 bad coordinator down, 1 to go.
A solid 2022 draft  
Joe Beckwith : 11/26/2021 10:38 am : link
of multiple OL, ER, a NT, and a couple of LB would be a good start.
Not to get all would’a could’a but…  
trueblueinpw : 11/26/2021 10:39 am : link
And I know it’s hindsight but either Slater or Parsons would have made the Giants better this season and had us on the upward trajectory that’s been missing for 10 years now.

Our defense may well have been dominate with Parsons coming off the edge and recking havoc like he did yesterday. The rest of this defense has a lot of talent and a game changer at edge could have made the team we have right now much better.

Likewise with Rashawn. Even with all the same injuries, this line is leaps and bounds better (how could it be any worse) with just this one single addition. Passing on Slater is especially galling. Every scouting report said he was NFL capable and we knew he played at every position on the line, that he was smart and we especially knew unarguably questionable our O line was going into the season. O line needs to be drafted in the early rounds, especially Tackles and especially blue chippers like Slater. The more time goes by the more the trade looks like a mistake.

And I’ve said this before, trading back wasn’t Getty’s worst move and I’m not killing him for it. But it does look like a mistake in retrospect and that should inform the question here by the OP. What could change our current course of failure? A blue chip play making LB like Parsons or a legit NFL offensive lineman that can play all along the line. Probably gonna need a new GM to get one of these.
Like a frozen computer  
Scooter185 : 11/26/2021 10:42 am : link
The franchise needs a full reboot. Hopefully Mara proverbially turn this thing off and back on after this season.
Build from the foundation up  
Rick in Dallas : 11/26/2021 10:46 am : link
Fix both LOS first.If you can't control the LOS on both sides of the ball we will continue to lose.
Find a capable GM outside of the organization who will first fix our scouting dept. and our pro personnel dept.
2034  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/26/2021 10:51 am : link
.
At least 5 years  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/26/2021 10:57 am : link
Somebody posted the 2005 Giants vs Chiefs video last week and it was pretty sobering, a cohesive group of skill position players in older veterans Tiki and possession Y receiver Toomer, veteran prototype X in Plax and a two way Y in Shockey, and a young intelligent strong armed pocket passer. That took a decade to assemble, lets not even mention the OL.

Tiki was kind of the odd fit, he was drafted and thought of as a change of pace type back, thus his low production early in his career and Giants finally figured out to make him a workhorse.
As noted, there is plenty to fix but if you wanted to choose one thing  
Jimmy Googs : 11/26/2021 10:59 am : link
that will help turn around this team it is acquiring some competent Offensive Linemen. Not just starters either as we can see first hand how bad even the backups have been.

The NY Giant player evaluation process relative to OL is so bad it is almost like they don't take it seriously...
Luck.  
Jerry in_DC : 11/26/2021 11:05 am : link
Just luck at this point. In poker, over the long run, the worst player is going to make bad decisions and lose to more skillful players. But the worst player can still win hands and sessions with the right luck.

The Giants ownership, front office, and organizational processes are among the worst in the league. In any large sample size, we will lose. But it doesn't mean we will lose all the time.

Mara is a bad decision maker and a bad leader. But it doesn't mean every decision he makes is bad. We need a run of luck with his decision making. It it possible for him to make a good hire.

Then we need a run of luck in the draft. The draft is way more uncertain and random than people usually want to admit. A run of luck + health luck, could allow us to assemble some good players.

We have a lower probability of winning than most other organizations. But it's still possible. We could get lucky with our next QB. We could get lucky that Mara hires a visionary GM.

It's going to be luck. The alternative is a massive organizational overhaul, but that is not likely.
RE: Not to get all would’a could’a but…  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/26/2021 11:17 am : link
In comment 15467420 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
And I know it’s hindsight but either Slater or Parsons would have made the Giants better this season and had us on the upward trajectory that’s been missing for 10 years now.

Our defense may well have been dominate with Parsons coming off the edge and recking havoc like he did yesterday. The rest of this defense has a lot of talent and a game changer at edge could have made the team we have right now much better.

Likewise with Rashawn. Even with all the same injuries, this line is leaps and bounds better (how could it be any worse) with just this one single addition. Passing on Slater is especially galling. Every scouting report said he was NFL capable and we knew he played at every position on the line, that he was smart and we especially knew unarguably questionable our O line was going into the season. O line needs to be drafted in the early rounds, especially Tackles and especially blue chippers like Slater. The more time goes by the more the trade looks like a mistake.

And I’ve said this before, trading back wasn’t Getty’s worst move and I’m not killing him for it. But it does look like a mistake in retrospect and that should inform the question here by the OP. What could change our current course of failure? A blue chip play making LB like Parsons or a legit NFL offensive lineman that can play all along the line. Probably gonna need a new GM to get one of these.

Parsons was probably a little too new school LBer for the Giants. Yeah I'm not even mad we didn't draft him, probably would have misused him to be like Harry Carson.
..  
Named Later : 11/26/2021 11:26 am : link
I'd like to see them fix the Offensive Line.

Ever since all five O-Linemen retired within 2 years after the last Super Bowl, they've whiffed on just about every draft pick and free agent signing. They've even let a few decent linemen walk away, only to flourish with other teams. Their bull-headed refusal to even try Flowers at Guard is emblematic of their swing and miss efforts.

The noted philosopher Bill Parcells said that Football starts along the lines. It's not like this idea should be a revelation to the Giants. Every year the Cowboys, Eagles and even the Redskins show up with good lines....and beat them.

It's taking way too long  
Route 9 : 11/26/2021 11:42 am : link
I just wanna see some of our players take cheap shots at Dallas and Philly players lol that's really it. Other than that, fuck off.
Simple...Hire an omnipotent GM who doesn't answer to ownership  
Larry in Pencilvania : 11/26/2021 11:49 am : link
The Mara family is this organization's worst nightmare. Nothing gets fixed until the Mara family becomes a figurehead.

You can talk about drafting better players and fixing the offensive line, but as long as the Mara family has a say in those decisions the insanity will continue with half measures to appease the fans
RE: Simple...Hire an omnipotent GM who doesn't answer to ownership  
Larry in Pencilvania : 11/26/2021 11:50 am : link
In comment 15467473 Larry in Pencilvania said:
Quote:
The Mara family is this organization's worst nightmare. Nothing gets fixed until the Mara family becomes a figurehead.

You can talk about drafting better players and fixing the offensive line, but as long as the Mara family has a say in those decisions the insanity will continue with half measures to appease the fans


And that gm has to be an outsider who doesn't subscribe to the Giants Way
RE: It's taking way too long  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/26/2021 11:54 am : link
In comment 15467463 Route 9 said:
Quote:
I just wanna see some of our players take cheap shots at Dallas and Philly players lol that's really it. Other than that, fuck off.


We should build a team around that identity.

That's the core issue with the Giants, no identity/overall strategy to navigate and build a team in a zero sum parity salary capped league, just trying random different shit.
all mara has to do is outsource the GM search  
japanhead : 11/26/2021 1:18 pm : link
to a competent and well-regarded consulting firm and step away from the process and remove himself from HC hiring and roster-building decisions.

that is literally all it would take.
Mara selling?  
islander1 : 11/26/2021 2:32 pm : link
that's my best guess.
It will take 2 guys - a coach and a player  
markky : 11/26/2021 3:45 pm : link
that just refuse to lose. they will drag everyone else along with them.

think Walsh - Montana

think Parcells - Taylor

think Belichick - Brady

Two guys that command respect from the coaching staff and the players. Two guys whose desire to win burns so bright that it can't be denied. Everyone else steps up or moves out.

RE: It will take 2 guys - a coach and a player  
M.S. : 11/26/2021 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15467691 markky said:
Quote:
that just refuse to lose. they will drag everyone else along with them.

think Walsh - Montana

think Parcells - Taylor

think Belichick - Brady

Two guys that command respect from the coaching staff and the players. Two guys whose desire to win burns so bright that it can't be denied. Everyone else steps up or moves out.

I tend to agree with you!
RE:  
David B. : 11/26/2021 10:34 pm : link
RE: A good offensive line
Quote:
Spider56 : 10:32 am : link : reply
In comment 15467405 David B. said:
Quote:
and at least 2 stud pass rushers.

The Giants may already have 2 very good ERs in Azeez and Roche. The problem is their dumbass defensive schemes also ask these guys to cover RBs too, something they are not very good at. PG would probably use Micah Parsons the same way. 1 bad coordinator down, 1 to go.


Disagree. Ojulari MAY turn into a great pass rusher. But he's not there year. And they need 2-3 guys like that. When the Giants were GREAT they had Strahan, Osi, and Tuck. They don't have that. And they need it.

AND THEY NEED A DECENT OL.
Love  
Jersey Heel : 11/27/2021 12:03 am : link
Is the only answer.
Bringing over Wilson  
Batenhorst7 : 11/28/2021 9:57 am : link
getting rid of the Generational RB

Those moves alone will put us in the playoffs

I wish Freddy the greatest of good fortune today

Granham might have to go also, unless he grows a set and starts to go after the opponent QBs
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