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Rich Eisen Take on the state of the Giants

jvm52106 : 11/26/2021 10:20 am
after Monday night's loss to the Bucs. I find his take very interesting, very telling and honestly says a lot of what most of us are saying. Clearly this franchise is lost at the moment.

Points he makes:

We went after players, playmakers without correcting the OL first- adding Barkley, QB and then Golladay and still with a crappy OL.

Play calling, play schemes, coaching decisions, player selection all done without really any cohesion and certainly without and signs of success.

Mentions our 28% winning percentage since the ill fated boat trip prior to the WC game following the 2016 season. I know a lot people continue to say that is way overblown BUT, it does fit with this franchise- some success equals over inflated sense of success and self and leads to failure. Now that sense of success is tied to even lower levels of "success" like finishing 6-10 last year and even this year being 3-7 but should have won 2 other games. I now get why some posters are adamant about not wanting those close calls looked at as wins that we screwed up because it feeds those in charge with the idea that we are THIS close vs we are so bad that we screw up even when we have a chance to win.

Take a watch/listen and see what you think. Nothing earth shatteringly new but, a very stark and fresh take from a NON Giant fan but one who talks through the eyes of one.


Link - ( New Window )
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I have stated this before  
Giants : 11/26/2021 10:24 am : link
Taking play makers is not going to help until they fix the OL. Going into the next draft OL has to be their number one pick.
He nails it.  
mittenedman : 11/26/2021 10:29 am : link
It's a perfect synopsis. I've argued this before, but the Giants got away from the "Giants Way" when they started picking skill players over trench players.

It started with David Wilson over Cordy Glenn and we know the rest. OBJ over Martin/Donald. Engram over Ramczyk. Barkley over Nelson. And now Toney over Slater and Parsons.

They have the worst OL and pass rush in the NFL. The exact opposite of the Giants Way. Not sure why they started prioritizing skill over trench, but it's the single biggest reason why they've fallen so far IMO.
RE: He nails it.  
AcidTest : 11/26/2021 10:37 am : link
In comment 15467411 mittenedman said:
Quote:
It's a perfect synopsis. I've argued this before, but the Giants got away from the "Giants Way" when they started picking skill players over trench players.

It started with David Wilson over Cordy Glenn and we know the rest. OBJ over Martin/Donald. Engram over Ramczyk. Barkley over Nelson. And now Toney over Slater and Parsons.

They have the worst OL and pass rush in the NFL. The exact opposite of the Giants Way. Not sure why they started prioritizing skill over trench, but it's the single biggest reason why they've fallen so far IMO.


Totally agree. This game at all levels is won and lost in the trenches. Look at the way Indianapolis has been able to turn their season around, including pounding the Bills in Buffalo. Their OL is dominant. Nelson and Smith in particular.
FYI  
.McL. : 11/26/2021 10:51 am : link
Rich Eisen is a Giants fan.
Ouch  
Johnny5 : 11/26/2021 10:58 am : link
Wish I could send that to Mara, Tisch, and the whole Giants FO and force them to watch it with their eyes held open from blinking.
The boat trip  
ajr2456 : 11/26/2021 11:00 am : link
Has nothing to do with the current state of the Giants.

We did invest in the oline, it’s just that the person selecting the olineman did a terrible job outside of maybe Andrew Thomas. Hernandez, Omameh, Solder all turning out to be terrible set us back.
RE: The boat trip  
thomasa510 : 11/26/2021 11:05 am : link
In comment 15467432 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Has nothing to do with the current state of the Giants.

We did invest in the oline, it’s just that the person selecting the olineman did a terrible job outside of maybe Andrew Thomas. Hernandez, Omameh, Solder all turning out to be terrible set us back.


+1 but would add that it goes beyond selecting players and includes inability to develop those selections.
The only reason to mention that boat trip  
WillieYoung : 11/26/2021 11:05 am : link
is to note that all Giants fans wish it was a boat trip during the playoffs that was our biggest worry.
Offensive Line  
Jimmy Googs : 11/26/2021 11:08 am : link
Fix it and they can go on all the boat trips they want...
RE: FYI  
JayBinQueens : 11/26/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15467424 .McL. said:
Quote:
Rich Eisen is a Giants fan.

He's a Jet fan
OBJ  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/26/2021 11:23 am : link
sent NY, Cleveland and LA into a free fall tail spin. Fact.
There are issues all over this franchise  
Kanavis : 11/26/2021 11:26 am : link
But some of it results from having GMs and HCs out of sync. Mara does not have the courage to do it but the next GM should pick his own coach. If he likes Judge, then he can stay.

If JJ is retained, he will be on the clock, in his 3rd year. If the GM wants to tear down, it is going to be a challenge.

And although I agree that DG hasn't been good, how many of you think JJ had nothing to do with the picks this year? Can you see him thing the GM they were comfortable with the guys they had and could 'teach them.'
The  
Les in TO : 11/26/2021 11:30 am : link
Main Problem is Dave Gettleman has no business being a GM. He doesn’t know how to build a team or assess cap/draft value and his so called scouting strengths have been inconsistent in his tenure. Taking Saquon Barkley was pure negligence when both lines needed a rebuild. Even if Barkley was a Barry Sanders or Christian McAffrey weapon type back it still would have been the wrong pick. And Barkley is not even close to that, as for every highlight reel run he makes about 10 mistakes blocking or finding the right lane, not to mention his injuries . Then throw in Golladay, Toney, Bradberry, Tate, Solder etc and you can see why he’s in the same league as Matt Millen who never missed an opportunity to draft a wide receiver in the first round year after year.
Giants management has not taken an honest self-appraisal...  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/26/2021 11:39 am : link
...since 2011. Every year it's been "yes, but if we won x,y or z..." or "look at the last 3 games, things are trending up!"
Giants management has not taken an honest self-appraisal...  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/26/2021 11:43 am : link
...since 2011. Every year it's been "yes, but if we won x,y or z..." or "look at the last 3 games, things are trending up!"
The offensive line is not the root issue  
Go Terps : 11/26/2021 11:46 am : link
.
as the say in politics  
NotIraInSI : 11/26/2021 11:48 am : link
it's the qb stupid.
ajr  
mittenedman : 11/26/2021 11:48 am : link
Yes, they drafted guys here and there. We're talking about a 10 year span. There were some attempts.

But it wasn't nearly enough.
so true...  
gmen4ever : 11/26/2021 11:55 am : link
but so painful to hear outload. Why is it all of the arm chair fans know everything he was saying was true yet the coaches nor owners/GM do anything about it? Is there a plan or a future we can really get excited about? I cancelled my NFL Sunday ticket package this year after game 3. We need to expect more from the owners and the team, yet continue to be a laughing stock of the NFL.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/26/2021 12:01 pm : link
I feel that this 'The Giants don't invest OL' narrative isn't accurate. Both Reese & DG spent significant capital on the OL. The problem is that the picks/signings-for the most part-just didn't work out. Reese, for example, took Pugh in '13 & then Flowers in '15 both in the first round.
You know what the issue is imo?  
Sean : 11/26/2021 12:06 pm : link
Lousy QB play. This team has had shitty QB play now for half a decade. It’s really hard to build a strong roster, most teams don’t have that. But you know what the strong teams have? QB’s that elevate the roster.

If the Giants had Justin Herbert, I’d imagine this team is at least 6-4. I think that’s a lot of the issue.
RE: There are issues all over this franchise  
giantstock : 11/26/2021 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15467449 Kanavis said:
Quote:
But some of it results from having GMs and HCs out of sync. Mara does not have the courage to do it but the next GM should pick his own coach. If he likes Judge, then he can stay.

If JJ is retained, he will be on the clock, in his 3rd year. If the GM wants to tear down, it is going to be a challenge.

And although I agree that DG hasn't been good, how many of you think JJ had nothing to do with the picks this year? Can you see him thing the GM they were comfortable with the guys they had and could 'teach them.'


+1000000000000000000000

Great post.

I've been a JJ defender but 100%% you are spot on with your post. If new GM wants him gone-- goodbye JJ.

Secondly, I agree with you that JJ didn't have some input. But with that said, that doesn't mean he had final say input nor does he deserve to get crushed for year 1 for not selecting exactly correct players.

Next year is the year imo for him too. He now sees (he had better!) for example that he needs a much, much better OL.

And another pas rusher.
RE: I have stated this before  
markky : 11/26/2021 12:10 pm : link
In comment 15467406 Giants said:
Quote:
Taking play makers is not going to help until they fix the OL. Going into the next draft OL has to be their number one pick.


I'd go a step further and say that the real playmakers on the field are the athletic big men and the guys that rush the passer. We've passed on so many great athletes in favor of shiny new toys that it's mind blowing.
RE: FYI  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/26/2021 12:15 pm : link
In comment 15467424 .McL. said:
Quote:
Rich Eisen is a Giants fan.


So you didn't listen? Because he said he is a Jets fan.
RE: RE: FYI  
.McL. : 11/26/2021 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15467502 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15467424 .McL. said:


Quote:


Rich Eisen is a Giants fan.



So you didn't listen? Because he said he is a Jets fan.

Yeah, I heard that... I could have sword he said that he rooted for the Giants in the past. Maybe he just said NY.
as ajr said  
fkap : 11/26/2021 12:44 pm : link
we invested quite a bit into the OL. Mostly, it was a lot of resources down the drain.

No GM hits 100%, but the OL acquisition has been abysmal.

OL is a HUGE problem. There's plenty of other huge problems, such as no edge, so you can't say "fix the OL, and life will be rosy". But, a decent OL makes a LOT of other Offense woes more manageable.

Grab a better QB if one is available. Don't waste resources on anything but a top QB prospect (this year) Otherwise, OL and edge are the top spots to work on.
I think the implication  
Keaton028 : 11/26/2021 12:48 pm : link
Rich is hinting at here, is the methodology in which the Giants are using at roster building. I don’t believe he all out thinks the Giants have ignored the O-line, but their building of it and the rest of the roster has been one bad decision after another. This was a brutally honest assessment, and while it’s easy to do with the benefit of hindsight, many of us were calling for the moves that absolutely would have made the team better: drafting Nelson or Chubb over Barkley, drafting DE Josh Allen and waiting for Herbert, drafting Slater or Parsons… many fans could see these moves even before they played out, but the Giants could not. They are immersed in constant incompetence and ineptitude.
RE: You know what the issue is imo?  
Go Terps : 11/26/2021 12:57 pm : link
In comment 15467487 Sean said:
Quote:
Lousy QB play. This team has had shitty QB play now for half a decade. It’s really hard to build a strong roster, most teams don’t have that. But you know what the strong teams have? QB’s that elevate the roster.

If the Giants had Justin Herbert, I’d imagine this team is at least 6-4. I think that’s a lot of the issue.


On the field this is issue number one, no question.

The last thing the Giants should be thinking about is a "Giants Way" to solve this issue. They need to look at best practices in 2021 across the league, not Giants' practices in 1986.

The past is the fucking past.
DG  
allstarjim : 11/26/2021 1:00 pm : link
Took over a roster that was near or at the bottom of the league. At this point, he's succeeded in adding some pieces that can be a part of the future, but his rebuild plan has failed. And the biggest reason that is the case is the pick of Daniel Jones, who looks like a QB who's ceiling is bottom half starter in the NFL.

There's still a bit of time for that narrative to change, but not much, and the chances of it changing are becoming increasingly unlikely.

At the end of this season, I would trade Jones and find a reclamation project such as Blake Bortles, and target the 2023 NFL Draft for a franchise QB.

Almost every draft decision DG has made was the wrong one, but Barkley really wasn't one of them from a draft in the moment perspective. That draft pick isn't the reason DG has failed, and if Saquon had remained healthy, we'd be talking about him as a cornerstone piece.
RE: RE: You know what the issue is imo?  
Sean : 11/26/2021 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15467545 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15467487 Sean said:


Quote:


Lousy QB play. This team has had shitty QB play now for half a decade. It’s really hard to build a strong roster, most teams don’t have that. But you know what the strong teams have? QB’s that elevate the roster.

If the Giants had Justin Herbert, I’d imagine this team is at least 6-4. I think that’s a lot of the issue.



On the field this is issue number one, no question.

The last thing the Giants should be thinking about is a "Giants Way" to solve this issue. They need to look at best practices in 2021 across the league, not Giants' practices in 1986.

The past is the fucking past.

The BigBlueVCR account is posting highlights from the NYG-Philly 2000 divisional game. While I love watching those highlights, it might as well be 1930 in how the game was played.
Look at the drafts from  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/26/2021 1:03 pm : link
2012 till 2019. This problem started long before DG but he certainly added to it.

After winning the Super Bowl where Eli carried the team and took a brutal beating in the NFCCG and with our defensive warriors and OL on fumes here is the 2012 draft. The drafts continued to be poor for years.

Wilson, Randle, Hosley, Robinson, Mosley McCants, Kuhn.

In hindsight, they should have loaded up on OL in 2012-13, cut the aging veterans, taken the cap hits and created a window of 2014-? with a younger more running oriented team imo. Instead they took the band-aid approach with competing agendas in the FO/CS.
RE: RE: You know what the issue is imo?  
mittenedman : 11/26/2021 1:07 pm : link
In comment 15467545 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15467487 Sean said:


Quote:


Lousy QB play. This team has had shitty QB play now for half a decade. It’s really hard to build a strong roster, most teams don’t have that. But you know what the strong teams have? QB’s that elevate the roster.

If the Giants had Justin Herbert, I’d imagine this team is at least 6-4. I think that’s a lot of the issue.



On the field this is issue number one, no question.

The last thing the Giants should be thinking about is a "Giants Way" to solve this issue. They need to look at best practices in 2021 across the league, not Giants' practices in 1986.

The past is the fucking past.


Best practices are QB + OL + pass rush. In some ways, the game hasn't changed at all.
jvm  
Matt M. : 11/26/2021 1:30 pm : link
One close game loss can be examined in a bubble. Years of them just shows they don't know how to win.
RE: ajr  
ajr2456 : 11/26/2021 1:44 pm : link
In comment 15467471 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Yes, they drafted guys here and there. We're talking about a 10 year span. There were some attempts.

But it wasn't nearly enough.


What’s considered enough? Over the past 10 years they’ve spent:

2020: 1st on Thomas, 3rd on Peart, 5th in Lemieux
2018: 2nd on Hernandez
2015: 1st on Flowers
2014: 2nd on Richburg
2013: 1st on Pugh
2011: 4th on Brewer

2019: Signed Remmers
2018: Signed Solder and Omameh
2017: Signed Fluker
2015: signed Newhouse and Brett Jones
2014: signed Schwartz
2011 they signed Bass

You can’t just spend first and second round picks on oline every year. Of that list of players who made a positive impact on the Giants for more than a year? Pugh is probably it.
a few week ago the response  
NotIraInSI : 11/26/2021 1:45 pm : link
to this would have been,eisen is a jerk gas bag and a jets fan , what does he know.
RE: DG  
jvm52106 : 11/26/2021 1:48 pm : link
In comment 15467548 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Took over a roster that was near or at the bottom of the league. At this point, he's succeeded in adding some pieces that can be a part of the future, but his rebuild plan has failed. And the biggest reason that is the case is the pick of Daniel Jones, who looks like a QB who's ceiling is bottom half starter in the NFL.

There's still a bit of time for that narrative to change, but not much, and the chances of it changing are becoming increasingly unlikely.

At the end of this season, I would trade Jones and find a reclamation project such as Blake Bortles, and target the 2023 NFL Draft for a franchise QB.

Almost every draft decision DG has made was the wrong one, but Barkley really wasn't one of them from a draft in the moment perspective. That draft pick isn't the reason DG has failed, and if Saquon had remained healthy, we'd be talking about him as a cornerstone piece.


Disagree.. The issue started with and still is the biggest issue overall, the picking of Barkley. That was a move by a guy who had zero clue about the overall team and saw a guy he convinced himself was the next Payton, Faulk or Tomlinson and screwed the team build going forward.
RE: RE: ajr  
widmerseyebrow : 11/26/2021 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15467579 ajr2456 said:
Quote:

What’s considered enough? Over the past 10 years they’ve spent:

2020: 1st on Thomas, 3rd on Peart, 5th in Lemieux
2018: 2nd on Hernandez
2015: 1st on Flowers
2014: 2nd on Richburg
2013: 1st on Pugh
2011: 4th on Brewer

2019: Signed Remmers
2018: Signed Solder and Omameh
2017: Signed Fluker
2015: signed Newhouse and Brett Jones
2014: signed Schwartz
2011 they signed Bass

You can’t just spend first and second round picks on oline every year. Of that list of players who made a positive impact on the Giants for more than a year? Pugh is probably it.


Agreed 100%, at some point our front office needs to be able to grab decent starters in rounds 2-7. Getting a bona fide starting guard in rounds 2-7 didn't seem like such a monumental undertaking 15 years ago.
RE: RE: RE: ajr  
Giants73 : 11/26/2021 2:04 pm : link
In comment 15467588 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15467579 ajr2456 said:


Quote:



What’s considered enough? Over the past 10 years they’ve spent:

2020: 1st on Thomas, 3rd on Peart, 5th in Lemieux
2018: 2nd on Hernandez
2015: 1st on Flowers
2014: 2nd on Richburg
2013: 1st on Pugh
2011: 4th on Brewer

2019: Signed Remmers
2018: Signed Solder and Omameh
2017: Signed Fluker
2015: signed Newhouse and Brett Jones
2014: signed Schwartz
2011 they signed Bass

You can’t just spend first and second round picks on oline every year. Of that list of players who made a positive impact on the Giants for more than a year? Pugh is probably it.



Agreed 100%, at some point our front office needs to be able to grab decent starters in rounds 2-7. Getting a bona fide starting guard in rounds 2-7 didn't seem like such a monumental undertaking 15 years ago.


At some point the coaches need to be able to coach a stunt pickup. Outside of Solder, most of the line problems revolve around the players in there having no clue who to block. Poor play design, poor blocking concepts, no coaching up players. Unless every o linemen the Giants get is just more idiotic and unreachable than every other teams linemen’s.
RE: RE: RE: ajr  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/26/2021 2:08 pm : link
In comment 15467588 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15467579 ajr2456 said:


Quote:



What’s considered enough? Over the past 10 years they’ve spent:

2020: 1st on Thomas, 3rd on Peart, 5th in Lemieux
2018: 2nd on Hernandez
2015: 1st on Flowers
2014: 2nd on Richburg
2013: 1st on Pugh
2011: 4th on Brewer

2019: Signed Remmers
2018: Signed Solder and Omameh
2017: Signed Fluker
2015: signed Newhouse and Brett Jones
2014: signed Schwartz
2011 they signed Bass

You can’t just spend first and second round picks on oline every year. Of that list of players who made a positive impact on the Giants for more than a year? Pugh is probably it.



Agreed 100%, at some point our front office needs to be able to grab decent starters in rounds 2-7. Getting a bona fide starting guard in rounds 2-7 didn't seem like such a monumental undertaking 15 years ago.

And is this somehow related to coaching and developing players, something wrong at an organizational level... Mel Kiper would get a few of these picks right, you can try for results this bad and a few of these picks you get a decent starter.
RE: RE: You know what the issue is imo?  
EricJ : 11/26/2021 2:10 pm : link
In comment 15467545 Go Terps said:
Quote:

The last thing the Giants should be thinking about is a "Giants Way" to solve this issue. They need to look at best practices in 2021 across the league, not Giants' practices in 1986.

The past is the fucking past.


Something is never going to change in this league. That is winning the game in the trenches. We have been losing in that area for a decade. It is having the ability to run the ball, to stop the run, and to get a pass rush.

you can continue to cry about the QB if you like and I am not dismissing that because the QB is the single most important position on the field. However, like others have said if you bring Russel Wilson in here... the Giants still are not a playoff team.
Same as what everyone said at the beginning of the season  
DisgruntledNYGfan : 11/26/2021 2:17 pm : link
These are the same things the experts all said in the preseason. We banked on young OL talent from last year rising to the occasion. We also banked on Will Hernandez trending up, not down. A lot of that young OL talent was lost to injury and the rest of it tanked. One thing no one predicted was our DL dropping off. But that seems to have happened, also.
RE: RE: You know what the issue is imo?  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 11/26/2021 2:50 pm : link
In comment 15467545 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15467487 Sean said:


Quote:


Lousy QB play. This team has had shitty QB play now for half a decade. It’s really hard to build a strong roster, most teams don’t have that. But you know what the strong teams have? QB’s that elevate the roster.

If the Giants had Justin Herbert, I’d imagine this team is at least 6-4. I think that’s a lot of the issue.



On the field this is issue number one, no question.

The last thing the Giants should be thinking about is a "Giants Way" to solve this issue. They need to look at best practices in 2021 across the league, not Giants' practices in 1986.

The past is the fucking past.


"The past isn't dead. It isn't even past."
RE: RE: RE: You know what the issue is imo?  
allstarjim : 11/26/2021 2:50 pm : link
In comment 15467605 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15467545 Go Terps said:


Quote:



The last thing the Giants should be thinking about is a "Giants Way" to solve this issue. They need to look at best practices in 2021 across the league, not Giants' practices in 1986.

The past is the fucking past.



Something is never going to change in this league. That is winning the game in the trenches. We have been losing in that area for a decade. It is having the ability to run the ball, to stop the run, and to get a pass rush.

you can continue to cry about the QB if you like and I am not dismissing that because the QB is the single most important position on the field. However, like others have said if you bring Russel Wilson in here... the Giants still are not a playoff team.


Eric, the Seahawks are bad this year and are going to miss the playoffs, but starting in 2012, they've made the playoffs every season with the exception of 2017. And that year they were 9-7, so a winning record every year since 2012.

Most of that time they're OL has been objectively bad. The elite QBs can cover somewhat for a bad OL. Wilson is an elite QB, DJ is not.

The Giants need to draft an elite QB. It's tough to do but without finding that guy, you have to build everything else as top tier units. They've failed at both endeavors.
RE: RE: DG  
allstarjim : 11/26/2021 2:53 pm : link
In comment 15467584 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 15467548 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Took over a roster that was near or at the bottom of the league. At this point, he's succeeded in adding some pieces that can be a part of the future, but his rebuild plan has failed. And the biggest reason that is the case is the pick of Daniel Jones, who looks like a QB who's ceiling is bottom half starter in the NFL.

There's still a bit of time for that narrative to change, but not much, and the chances of it changing are becoming increasingly unlikely.

At the end of this season, I would trade Jones and find a reclamation project such as Blake Bortles, and target the 2023 NFL Draft for a franchise QB.

Almost every draft decision DG has made was the wrong one, but Barkley really wasn't one of them from a draft in the moment perspective. That draft pick isn't the reason DG has failed, and if Saquon had remained healthy, we'd be talking about him as a cornerstone piece.



Disagree.. The issue started with and still is the biggest issue overall, the picking of Barkley. That was a move by a guy who had zero clue about the overall team and saw a guy he convinced himself was the next Payton, Faulk or Tomlinson and screwed the team build going forward.


He is the next Faulk or Tomlinson, he's just been bit by injury and a bad team around him.
a fish stinks from the head  
Josh in MD : 11/26/2021 2:56 pm : link
The last era of lousy Giants football did not end until Wellington got completely out of the way of football decisions. The current era will not end until John does the same--and takes his brothers, nephews, cousins, aunts, and all other kith and kin with him. They can still have the choicest box in the house and reap the profits. But nothing more. John is stubborn as a mule, but not as bright.
RE: RE: ajr  
Jimmy Googs : 11/26/2021 3:01 pm : link
In comment 15467579 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15467471 mittenedman said:


Quote:


Yes, they drafted guys here and there. We're talking about a 10 year span. There were some attempts.

But it wasn't nearly enough.



What’s considered enough? Over the past 10 years they’ve spent:

2020: 1st on Thomas, 3rd on Peart, 5th in Lemieux
2018: 2nd on Hernandez
2015: 1st on Flowers
2014: 2nd on Richburg
2013: 1st on Pugh
2011: 4th on Brewer

2019: Signed Remmers
2018: Signed Solder and Omameh
2017: Signed Fluker
2015: signed Newhouse and Brett Jones
2014: signed Schwartz
2011 they signed Bass

You can’t just spend first and second round picks on oline every year. Of that list of players who made a positive impact on the Giants for more than a year? Pugh is probably it.


Hopeful future with top OT pick that year Andrew Thomas and found a decent UDFA in Nick Gates who picked up how to play Center.

The rest of those names are pretty valueless. At least when they played for us.

just awful...

And that’s the thing  
ajr2456 : 11/26/2021 3:16 pm : link
If just one or two of those guys on that list pan out we’re having a completely different conversation round now.

They’ve invested enough in the Oline that it shouldn’t still be this bad, they’ve just invested in the wrong players.
RE: I think the implication  
markky : 11/26/2021 3:31 pm : link
In comment 15467532 Keaton028 said:
Quote:
Rich is hinting at here, is the methodology in which the Giants are using at roster building. I don’t believe he all out thinks the Giants have ignored the O-line, but their building of it and the rest of the roster has been one bad decision after another. This was a brutally honest assessment, and while it’s easy to do with the benefit of hindsight, many of us were calling for the moves that absolutely would have made the team better: drafting Nelson or Chubb over Barkley, drafting DE Josh Allen and waiting for Herbert, drafting Slater or Parsons… many fans could see these moves even before they played out, but the Giants could not. They are immersed in constant incompetence and ineptitude.


this is exactly right.
RE: RE: RE: DG  
markky : 11/26/2021 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15467640 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15467584 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


In comment 15467548 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Took over a roster that was near or at the bottom of the league. At this point, he's succeeded in adding some pieces that can be a part of the future, but his rebuild plan has failed. And the biggest reason that is the case is the pick of Daniel Jones, who looks like a QB who's ceiling is bottom half starter in the NFL.

There's still a bit of time for that narrative to change, but not much, and the chances of it changing are becoming increasingly unlikely.

At the end of this season, I would trade Jones and find a reclamation project such as Blake Bortles, and target the 2023 NFL Draft for a franchise QB.

Almost every draft decision DG has made was the wrong one, but Barkley really wasn't one of them from a draft in the moment perspective. That draft pick isn't the reason DG has failed, and if Saquon had remained healthy, we'd be talking about him as a cornerstone piece.



Disagree.. The issue started with and still is the biggest issue overall, the picking of Barkley. That was a move by a guy who had zero clue about the overall team and saw a guy he convinced himself was the next Payton, Faulk or Tomlinson and screwed the team build going forward.



He is the next Faulk or Tomlinson, he's just been bit by injury and a bad team around him.


Barkley is part of the blocking problems. He can't pick up the blitz - by this point in his career it should be a given. Until then he is a liability.
Another mystifying thing  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/26/2021 4:18 pm : link
why can 2nd, 4th, and 7th round picks like Tiki, Jacobs and Bradhsaw all block like 6th olinemen no problem just throw them in there, but all world draft prospect Barkley block like shit?
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