He can’t do squat in Seattle…..what makes you think he would light the fire in NY? Plus…..Giants are struggling to stay in the cap for 2022 thanks to all these huge contracts to mediocre players.
The amount of pushback on a Wilson trade is surprising. This team is in desperate need of a Quarterback on that level. In today's NFL, a 33-year-old QB can last another 3-5 years. It would be a no-brainer to pursue that trade.
I like Russ - he’s a champ and was inches from being a two time champ. He would instantly improve the offense dramatically. He’s in a different class vs Jones. And he would take some pressure off the line via his elite ability to improvise when plays break down.
On the flip side, he’s expensive, on the back nine of his career and the Giants need help in the trenches.
Four? Conerly, Tittle, Simms, Eli? We can all cherry pick different attempts to land a QB that ultimately failed - trades, free agents and draft picks.
He's already dealing with a suspect OL. This is a complete fuster cluck. Plus, this team is not ready to compete for anything. Will he make the offense better? I'm sure he will despite the OL woes. The problem is the defense is soft as Cottonelle. They need to figure out how not to get bullied in the trenches and make life difficult for opposing offenses. Wilson isn't solving that enigma.
Just no. Eric is spot on with the Craig Morton comparison (and to be fair, a LOT of Giants fans did not want him (he was not as good as Staubach, and was coming off a year with 185 completions out of 339 attempts (54.6%), 2,396 yards (fifth in the league), 15 touchdowns and 21 interceptions).
It didn't help that the two draft choices we gave up turned into Randy White (1975) and Jim Jensen (1976), though I doubt the FO at that time would make any decent picks.
The trap you run into is that the team only has 1 legit starter (Thomas at LT); you are going to have to draft heavy in the next three years to fix this and provide decent depth on the OL. It's not just drafting, it will take 2-3 years for those guys to learn their craft, and develop the cohesion necessary for a good OL...and at that point, a Wilson or Rodgers will either be out of the league or severe decline.
Mara selecting Gettleman was a disaster in that respect. Everyone knew at the time DG was selected that the OL needed to be priority #1, but it wasn't successfuly addressed (the most glaring example was picking Barkley when Q. Nelson was avaliable). I said at the time it would take at least 3 years to build the team back to contender status, and 4 years later things are worst than ever on either line.
The time now is to REALLY tear things down, and go all in on building championship lines on both sides the next two years via the draft. At that point, you can add a QB either through the draft or as a FA. It sucks, since we don't know if Mara is going to get a competent GM or not, but there is no quick fix, just like there wasn't a quick fix in the 1970's.
Craig Morton (and Larry Czonka) were quick fix attempts that backfired on the team back then, and the Giants NEED to learn from history, or they WILL repeat it.
The amount of pushback on a Wilson trade is surprising. This team is in desperate need of a Quarterback on that level. In today's NFL, a 33-year-old QB can last another 3-5 years. It would be a no-brainer to pursue that trade.
Wilson is a running QB and has way more "miles" on him than a typical 33 year old QB has.
I'd honestly rather go with Jones next year than Wilson, and I'm not a believer in Jones.
The amount of pushback on a Wilson trade is surprising. This team is in desperate need of a Quarterback on that level. In today's NFL, a 33-year-old QB can last another 3-5 years. It would be a no-brainer to pursue that trade.
The pushback is the cost. Basically the Giants would be helping Seattle rebuild, and buying maybe a couple more wins next year before plunging back into the abyss.
If the Giants had cap room, Wilson might be worth it at the price of a 2nd round pick. Definitely not 2-3 #1 picks.
Just no. Eric is spot on with the Craig Morton comparison (and to be fair, a LOT of Giants fans did not want him (he was not as good as Staubach, and was coming off a year with 185 completions out of 339 attempts (54.6%), 2,396 yards (fifth in the league), 15 touchdowns and 21 interceptions).
It didn't help that the two draft choices we gave up turned into Randy White (1975) and Jim Jensen (1976), though I doubt the FO at that time would make any decent picks.
The trap you run into is that the team only has 1 legit starter (Thomas at LT); you are going to have to draft heavy in the next three years to fix this and provide decent depth on the OL. It's not just drafting, it will take 2-3 years for those guys to learn their craft, and develop the cohesion necessary for a good OL...and at that point, a Wilson or Rodgers will either be out of the league or severe decline.
Mara selecting Gettleman was a disaster in that respect. Everyone knew at the time DG was selected that the OL needed to be priority #1, but it wasn't successfuly addressed (the most glaring example was picking Barkley when Q. Nelson was avaliable). I said at the time it would take at least 3 years to build the team back to contender status, and 4 years later things are worst than ever on either line.
The time now is to REALLY tear things down, and go all in on building championship lines on both sides the next two years via the draft. At that point, you can add a QB either through the draft or as a FA. It sucks, since we don't know if Mara is going to get a competent GM or not, but there is no quick fix, just like there wasn't a quick fix in the 1970's.
Craig Morton (and Larry Czonka) were quick fix attempts that backfired on the team back then, and the Giants NEED to learn from history, or they WILL repeat it.
I couldn’t agree more! Upgrading at QB now is like putting brand new shingles on your roof without addressing the rotted wood underneath.
I like Russ - he’s a champ and was inches from being a two time champ. He would instantly improve the offense dramatically. He’s in a different class vs Jones. And he would take some pressure off the line via his elite ability to improvise when plays break down.
On the flip side, he’s expensive, on the back nine of his career and the Giants need help in the trenches.
That comment about the OL was a real head-scratcher. Almost made me question the credibility of the article.
I think Wilson is one of the top three chicken salad makers in the NFL and he has at least 4+ quality years left.
So I would be interested for sure. He could be quite the hero restoring this moribund franchise. But with this ownership and management team, I could think of more enticing places if I'm Wilson. Like Miami...
The amount of pushback on a Wilson trade is surprising. This team is in desperate need of a Quarterback on that level. In today's NFL, a 33-year-old QB can last another 3-5 years. It would be a no-brainer to pursue that trade.
It's not surprising at all. Like ownership, a significant portion of this fanbase has lost all conception of what the modern NFL looks like.
Don Shula used him all over the field. I always thought Jeff Hostetler could have played a similar role for the Giants, but when he got a chance after a bunch of receivers got hurt, he looked out of place.
I think the guy the Cowboys drafted might have been Jim Jeffcoat. 😏
The quickest route to contention for this team. He’s still a top 8 QB (he’s hurt right now), and would instantly turn around this floundering franchise. I prefer building a winner through the draft, but it’s not a terrible idea.
It is absolutely a terrible idea. We not whiff contention for five to seven years if we traded several first round picks for Wilson. BUILD THE OL FIRST!!!
You don't just build one area of a team, consider it complete, and then move on to the next. NFL rosters are fluid; sections of a roster even moreso.
Further, you can't just dictate when an elite NFL quarterback is going to become available to you. Wilson is an elite quarterback who, prior to this year freak injury, had practically zero injury history to speak of. The guy looks after himself as well as any quarterback in the game - he's built like a brick shithouse and has excellent instincts for avoiding contact.
He's played with OLs as shitty as the ones Daniel Jones has had, and where Jones is throwing for 15 TDs Wilson's been throwing for 30 to 40.
Again I don't know how they swing the expense (cheap first year, pricier second and third years?), but the reason to accumulate cap space and draft picks is so you can have a shot at an elite player like Wilson.
You don't pass that up because you don't have a perfect OL.
The amount of pushback on a Wilson trade is surprising. This team is in desperate need of a Quarterback on that level. In today's NFL, a 33-year-old QB can last another 3-5 years. It would be a no-brainer to pursue that trade.
Wilson is a running QB and has way more "miles" on him than a typical 33 year old QB has.
I'd honestly rather go with Jones next year than Wilson, and I'm not a believer in Jones.
I respect your opinion FStubbs but I strongly disagree. Wilson is a 4,000 yard / 40 TD passer who creates with his legs. And if you watch him play he's very smart with how he runs and slides. Until this year he's never missed a game in his career.
For the record, I don't believe Seattle has even remotely considered trading Wilson.
You are giving up future picks and killing your cap on a team that isn't close. This team is not one QB away from contending. As someone said, you kill you future for a few more wins.
We need to see how the rest of his season turns out. If he stays on this current trend then no effing way. If he returns to form I would do it for the right price. We have skill players. We get Wilson then you absolutely load up on the trenches.
And if there are any FA moves you make them for more OL/ER. That’s it. Just stack the trenches. If we got Wilson I would be happy spending every single pick on OL, with ER’s sprinkled in.
If Wilson continues to look this way then forget it.
bad play.The truth of the matter is we are built for a retool not a rebuild so with the addition of Russell it fits the timeline. Add a lineman in the 2nd ad defense in the third.
than Craig Morton. He was a much better, ultimately, Hof player, he upgraded the Giants to a .500 level team that teased at contending for playoffs but it was just that, a tease. Tarkenton padded his stats during his time here, became a pain-in-the-ass diva, and bottom line, Giants didn't win, didn't make the playoffs, and went underwater on the mortgage paid in draft capital, two #1s, two #2s. Wilson would probably produce a similar result.
And, if you want to add a footnote to the magical thinking of trading draft picks for QBs, there's the #3 we gave up for Arnsparger's left-handed wunderkid, Jim Del Gaizo.
The Lines (offensive and defensive) are the core necessary for a winning team. The GM who transformed the Giants from a laughingstock to a Super Bowl contender, George Young, was an advocate of the "Planet Theory" (According to Young, the Planet Theory stated that there are only a very few human beings on the planet who are big enough and athletic enough to excel along the line of scrimmage in the National Football League. Therefore, you pick those guys early.)
Is that always true? Well, you might be able to get away with an average OLine if you have a great DLine and a great QB (Eli's Supe Bowl teams), but that's rare. And I'm not saying that you only draft for linemen, but you HAVE to prioritise your picks when the core of your team is rotten. Skill players are a luxury.
BTW, GoTerps, I'm shocked you are advocating getting an expensive FA QB, when you have preached constantly about not investing resources in the QB position...just draft a good QB cheap, and then let that QB go when his first contract is up, while drafting another. I would have thought you'd push for drafting Jones replacement next year. What gives?
The Lines (offensive and defensive) are the core necessary for a winning team. The GM who transformed the Giants from a laughingstock to a Super Bowl contender, George Young, was an advocate of the "Planet Theory" (According to Young, the Planet Theory stated that there are only a very few human beings on the planet who are big enough and athletic enough to excel along the line of scrimmage in the National Football League. Therefore, you pick those guys early.)
Is that always true? Well, you might be able to get away with an average OLine if you have a great DLine and a great QB (Eli's Supe Bowl teams), but that's rare. And I'm not saying that you only draft for linemen, but you HAVE to prioritise your picks when the core of your team is rotten. Skill players are a luxury.
BTW, GoTerps, I'm shocked you are advocating getting an expensive FA QB, when you have preached constantly about not investing resources in the QB position...just draft a good QB cheap, and then let that QB go when his first contract is up, while drafting another. I would have thought you'd push for drafting Jones replacement next year. What gives?
I've said repeatedly: elite players are worth elite resources. If you don't have an elite quarterback yes - I'd advocate cycling through and staying in a rookie contract.
But once you land that elite player, or have the opportunity to acquire that elite player - do what is necessary to either retain that elite player or acquire him.
I love Wilson but is Seattle worse than us on paper? They ain’t that good with Wilson how much better are we gonna be with him. I’d be pumped if they did got Wilson in NY I won’t lie, but it could fail miserably.
I take exception to people saying cap space or Wilson’s age or supposed lack of abilities as reasons not to trade for him—-those aren’t good reasons in my view. It’s the cost that scares me.
Cap space is horse shit. The giants were going to have to pay Jones in 1-2 years but they can’t trade for a vet qb making a lot of money? Ain’t buying it. There’s way to do this.
It’s the cost. We’d probably have to give up multiple high picks and young, talented and cheap players. Then what?
I might be more inclined to just draft a Qb and draft the best defensive player in round 1. I do love Wilson though. If he gets hot these next 2 months for Seattle a trade wound be awfully temping.
Everyone is forgetting that he would not play for this
fucked up franchise. If he wants a shot at winning a Superbowl before he retires, then he knows he has to play elsewhere.
You don’t know that. Plus any team that is close to winning a super bowl doesn’t have a bunch of picks to trade and doesn’t need a qb, so there is that as well. Don’t say Vikings. The Vikings have a qb.
Seattle is 3-7, coincidentally the same record as the Giants. You think this Giants team is so much more talented then Seattle that him coming here would drastically improve the team? If that was the case why is Seattle so bad? Additionally, even if you did believe that, you think him here instantly makes them a SB team? Unless you do, then why mortgage the future?
Exactly.
Wilson would go from a franchise with a terrible OL that has no direction to ... a franchise with a terrible OL that has no direction.
And Wilson also looks terrible. This is like when two ugly kids stare at each other across the gym at a Middle School dance and say "Naw".
I like Russ - he’s a champ and was inches from being a two time champ. He would instantly improve the offense dramatically. He’s in a different class vs Jones. And he would take some pressure off the line via his elite ability to improvise when plays break down.
On the flip side, he’s expensive, on the back nine of his career and the Giants need help in the trenches.
Quote:
We need to find the next Russell Wilson
If BBI existed in the 1970s, a bunch of fans would have loved the trade for Craig Morton.
Indeed, and also would have loved giving up two #1s and two #2s for Fran "wins some he shouldn't win and loses some he shouldn't lose" Tarkenton.
“Nope. We don’t need him. He’s too old. Jones is better. Let’s draft.”
Sigh.............
Glad the Giants held on to all those #1 picks instead of trading them away.
The Giants have only drafted 2 franchise QBs in their history.
It's very, very hard to draft a franchise QB when you need one.
It didn't help that the two draft choices we gave up turned into Randy White (1975) and Jim Jensen (1976), though I doubt the FO at that time would make any decent picks.
The trap you run into is that the team only has 1 legit starter (Thomas at LT); you are going to have to draft heavy in the next three years to fix this and provide decent depth on the OL. It's not just drafting, it will take 2-3 years for those guys to learn their craft, and develop the cohesion necessary for a good OL...and at that point, a Wilson or Rodgers will either be out of the league or severe decline.
Mara selecting Gettleman was a disaster in that respect. Everyone knew at the time DG was selected that the OL needed to be priority #1, but it wasn't successfuly addressed (the most glaring example was picking Barkley when Q. Nelson was avaliable). I said at the time it would take at least 3 years to build the team back to contender status, and 4 years later things are worst than ever on either line.
The time now is to REALLY tear things down, and go all in on building championship lines on both sides the next two years via the draft. At that point, you can add a QB either through the draft or as a FA. It sucks, since we don't know if Mara is going to get a competent GM or not, but there is no quick fix, just like there wasn't a quick fix in the 1970's.
Craig Morton (and Larry Czonka) were quick fix attempts that backfired on the team back then, and the Giants NEED to learn from history, or they WILL repeat it.
Wilson is a running QB and has way more "miles" on him than a typical 33 year old QB has.
I'd honestly rather go with Jones next year than Wilson, and I'm not a believer in Jones.
The pushback is the cost. Basically the Giants would be helping Seattle rebuild, and buying maybe a couple more wins next year before plunging back into the abyss.
If the Giants had cap room, Wilson might be worth it at the price of a 2nd round pick. Definitely not 2-3 #1 picks.
It didn't help that the two draft choices we gave up turned into Randy White (1975) and Jim Jensen (1976), though I doubt the FO at that time would make any decent picks.
The trap you run into is that the team only has 1 legit starter (Thomas at LT); you are going to have to draft heavy in the next three years to fix this and provide decent depth on the OL. It's not just drafting, it will take 2-3 years for those guys to learn their craft, and develop the cohesion necessary for a good OL...and at that point, a Wilson or Rodgers will either be out of the league or severe decline.
Mara selecting Gettleman was a disaster in that respect. Everyone knew at the time DG was selected that the OL needed to be priority #1, but it wasn't successfuly addressed (the most glaring example was picking Barkley when Q. Nelson was avaliable). I said at the time it would take at least 3 years to build the team back to contender status, and 4 years later things are worst than ever on either line.
The time now is to REALLY tear things down, and go all in on building championship lines on both sides the next two years via the draft. At that point, you can add a QB either through the draft or as a FA. It sucks, since we don't know if Mara is going to get a competent GM or not, but there is no quick fix, just like there wasn't a quick fix in the 1970's.
Craig Morton (and Larry Czonka) were quick fix attempts that backfired on the team back then, and the Giants NEED to learn from history, or they WILL repeat it.
I couldn’t agree more! Upgrading at QB now is like putting brand new shingles on your roof without addressing the rotted wood underneath.
I like Russ - he’s a champ and was inches from being a two time champ. He would instantly improve the offense dramatically. He’s in a different class vs Jones. And he would take some pressure off the line via his elite ability to improvise when plays break down.
On the flip side, he’s expensive, on the back nine of his career and the Giants need help in the trenches.
That comment about the OL was a real head-scratcher. Almost made me question the credibility of the article.
I think Wilson is one of the top three chicken salad makers in the NFL and he has at least 4+ quality years left.
So I would be interested for sure. He could be quite the hero restoring this moribund franchise. But with this ownership and management team, I could think of more enticing places if I'm Wilson. Like Miami...
Quote:
We need to find the next Russell Wilson
If BBI existed in the 1970s, a bunch of fans would have loved the trade for Craig Morton.
Wilson is 10 times the player Morton was.
It's not surprising at all. Like ownership, a significant portion of this fanbase has lost all conception of what the modern NFL looks like.
Sure, Wilson would be the sauce that covers up most of the sins but eventually that would rear its ugly head at the worst time.
I think the guy the Cowboys drafted might have been Jim Jeffcoat. 😏
It is absolutely a terrible idea. We not whiff contention for five to seven years if we traded several first round picks for Wilson. BUILD THE OL FIRST!!!
Further, you can't just dictate when an elite NFL quarterback is going to become available to you. Wilson is an elite quarterback who, prior to this year freak injury, had practically zero injury history to speak of. The guy looks after himself as well as any quarterback in the game - he's built like a brick shithouse and has excellent instincts for avoiding contact.
He's played with OLs as shitty as the ones Daniel Jones has had, and where Jones is throwing for 15 TDs Wilson's been throwing for 30 to 40.
Again I don't know how they swing the expense (cheap first year, pricier second and third years?), but the reason to accumulate cap space and draft picks is so you can have a shot at an elite player like Wilson.
You don't pass that up because you don't have a perfect OL.
Quote:
The amount of pushback on a Wilson trade is surprising. This team is in desperate need of a Quarterback on that level. In today's NFL, a 33-year-old QB can last another 3-5 years. It would be a no-brainer to pursue that trade.
Wilson is a running QB and has way more "miles" on him than a typical 33 year old QB has.
I'd honestly rather go with Jones next year than Wilson, and I'm not a believer in Jones.
I respect your opinion FStubbs but I strongly disagree. Wilson is a 4,000 yard / 40 TD passer who creates with his legs. And if you watch him play he's very smart with how he runs and slides. Until this year he's never missed a game in his career.
For the record, I don't believe Seattle has even remotely considered trading Wilson.
Jones and Barkley would barely move the needle in a trade.
WTF world is this person watching?
And if there are any FA moves you make them for more OL/ER. That’s it. Just stack the trenches. If we got Wilson I would be happy spending every single pick on OL, with ER’s sprinkled in.
If Wilson continues to look this way then forget it.
It's amazing trading for Wilson or Watson is even a consideration.
And, if you want to add a footnote to the magical thinking of trading draft picks for QBs, there's the #3 we gave up for Arnsparger's left-handed wunderkid, Jim Del Gaizo.
Is that always true? Well, you might be able to get away with an average OLine if you have a great DLine and a great QB (Eli's Supe Bowl teams), but that's rare. And I'm not saying that you only draft for linemen, but you HAVE to prioritise your picks when the core of your team is rotten. Skill players are a luxury.
BTW, GoTerps, I'm shocked you are advocating getting an expensive FA QB, when you have preached constantly about not investing resources in the QB position...just draft a good QB cheap, and then let that QB go when his first contract is up, while drafting another. I would have thought you'd push for drafting Jones replacement next year. What gives?
Is that always true? Well, you might be able to get away with an average OLine if you have a great DLine and a great QB (Eli's Supe Bowl teams), but that's rare. And I'm not saying that you only draft for linemen, but you HAVE to prioritise your picks when the core of your team is rotten. Skill players are a luxury.
BTW, GoTerps, I'm shocked you are advocating getting an expensive FA QB, when you have preached constantly about not investing resources in the QB position...just draft a good QB cheap, and then let that QB go when his first contract is up, while drafting another. I would have thought you'd push for drafting Jones replacement next year. What gives?
I've said repeatedly: elite players are worth elite resources. If you don't have an elite quarterback yes - I'd advocate cycling through and staying in a rookie contract.
But once you land that elite player, or have the opportunity to acquire that elite player - do what is necessary to either retain that elite player or acquire him.
Wilson is an elite quarterback.
I take exception to people saying cap space or Wilson’s age or supposed lack of abilities as reasons not to trade for him—-those aren’t good reasons in my view. It’s the cost that scares me.
Cap space is horse shit. The giants were going to have to pay Jones in 1-2 years but they can’t trade for a vet qb making a lot of money? Ain’t buying it. There’s way to do this.
It’s the cost. We’d probably have to give up multiple high picks and young, talented and cheap players. Then what?
I might be more inclined to just draft a Qb and draft the best defensive player in round 1. I do love Wilson though. If he gets hot these next 2 months for Seattle a trade wound be awfully temping.
entirely clueless..
I don't believe many of these people don't watch football other than the Giants.
Wilson is orders of magnitude better than Daniel Jones.
His second half numbers weren’t elite and hasn’t been this year.
You don’t know that. Plus any team that is close to winning a super bowl doesn’t have a bunch of picks to trade and doesn’t need a qb, so there is that as well. Don’t say Vikings. The Vikings have a qb.
I don't know why anyone would bring up Craig Morton. He was the best qb we had between Tarkenton and Simms.
Quote:
How dumb most of you sound? Wilson tossed 40 TDS last year and y’all think he’s washed?? Clueless homers.
His second half numbers weren’t elite and hasn’t been this year.
Whatever you want to tell yourself.
It's amazing trading for Wilson or Watson is even a consideration.
Or I should of read your post first, lol