Is what? We know the O-line sucks. I’m struggling because I think he is better than what he has shown. It’s hard to play at a high level when your line gets pushed into your face on every play. Do we draft another QB? Do we trade our first round picks for Watson or Wilson? Do we stick with DJ and draft two O-linemen?
He seems to have poor 'pocket awareness' but how much is this a function of a rusher o'laying Hernandez for the sack in 2 seconds in a 3 man rush with Garett 3 man route concept of milling around next to each other? Again raises the question of coaching.
Physically he looks the part and has shown he has the arm skills, but it seems like he has not been used well. He looked especially out of whack vs TB last Monday. Perhaps this week's jettisoning of Jason Garrett will help, but I think it is a mistake to think that he is not our QB of the future and we look to draft a QB early, or even worse, draft a QB with legal issues or too many miles on the odometer. Patience is needed, and hopefully he can show us something over the remaining games.
- reading the defense pre and post snap
- making adjustments
- going through his progressions
- moving around in the pocket
- extending plays
the OL sucks. but DJ hasn't shown the ability to cover for the OL or make the OL better.
I project him to be a career backup. or a starter for a team that starts the season 3-7.
I hope I'm wrong. He's such an easy guy to root for.
Then he became a different QB in the playoffs. You never know when the light is going to go on for a guy.
Wouldn't be the first time we've seen a quarterback leave the wastelands and proceed to leave his critics dumbfounded.
Just maddening inconsistencies. All these young guys are inconsistent, but his seems slow to smooth out. The lack of production in the red zone is concerning too. Now that can also be a team stat, but it is a huge problem.
Not making an excuse but these are realities IMO. The offense and playcalling has been bad. That's gone now, so it will be interesting to see if that changes things.
The Oline is not good. especially with AT out. Sucks about shane and Gates. I don't know how Solder is still starting. WH is a low end starter. Weapons have been in and out of the lineup. This is shit that happens in the NFL and has to be overcome by the QB and coaching.
Anyway the future. Be curious to see what happens the next few weeks. Do we see marked improvement or more of the same.
Either way, I think Jones is back for his 4th year (unless everyone is gone -GM, coach etc)
Giants should def draft a QB if they find one they like, that meets value. I won;t pretend to know what the college QB crop looks like. You can find plenty on here that will pretend to know. The "Buzz" is there is not I really high end prospect. IDK, but there is 7 rounds. grab at least a developmental guy.
Yeah. Solid. By not playing.
But seriously. LA, KC or GB could get him and plug him in for one or two games and be very useful.
This is a fallacy I keep seeing get repeated really and it couldn’t be more wrong. He needs to be able to show he can beat the best teams and good defenses. The next 7 weeks can’t be seen in a vacuum and really only mean something if he goes berserk in a good way and it just buys him a reservation ticket for one more year for training camp next year.
Also I don’t agree with poster who said Jones reads his progressions and both sides of the field. If anything it is a huge problem with Jones still in Yr 3. He missed a lot of open receivers against the Bucs when he had plenty of time. Didn’t even look in some directions. It’s why I don’t buy the “blame Garrett” mantra right now on lack of targets for Golladay. Toney and Shep get targeted constantly when they are playing. Jones is ignoring him in a lot of reads and probably because he’s not trusting the separation or lack thereof with certain receivers.
Lots of scenarios that could unfold.
At this position point I think he needs a fresh start. Maybe he progresses to be a middling starter but he was really bad in Tamps and his body language was worse.
He gets the rest of the year to see if you consider year 4. I think they are going to open things up and if he becomes turnover DJ Judge is going to use that to leverage his own position as HC.
Also I don’t agree with poster who said Jones reads his progressions and both sides of the field. If anything it is a huge problem with Jones still in Yr 3. He missed a lot of open receivers against the Bucs when he had plenty of time. Didn’t even look in some directions. It’s why I don’t buy the “blame Garrett” mantra right now on lack of targets for Golladay. Toney and Shep get targeted constantly when they are playing. Jones is ignoring him in a lot of reads and probably because he’s not trusting the separation or lack thereof with certain receivers. [/quote]
plays are designed a certain way. Against a certain look the progression is pre dtermined. against a difference look the progression may be in a different order.
The problem , IMO, is Golloday should be the first option 7-10 times a game. We should all agree on this. we got him, we paid him, he's healthy and on the feild now. throw him the ball. FIRST read at least 7 times a game. he should end up in the 10-12 target range. again. IMO
So even if as you contend, Jones doesn't get through his reads, it should not matter visi a vis KG. There should be offense designed to get him the ball. PERIOD. they should design plays for Toney and Barkley as well. specific for them. AS The first read, designed with their skillset in mind
like a two year job at best. if he is this level of player next offseason sign him to an appropriate contract or let him walk.
get modern, understand the cap. the pieces are ill fitting and commit to a proper full rebuild. i would attempt to find a better player at every position. may be the case only 5-7 giants remain on team by next playoff run. thomas, toney, mckinney, ojulari, dexter lawrence might be those guys. everyone else smells like they will be gone.
He is a guy who doesn’t read a defense well and has little pocket awareness. He is a good QB when the defense is in the exact scheme he expects and his first read gets open. In those instances he delivers a nice ball. But when the defense disguises or mixes up the look on him, or his first read is not open? Panic sets in and he either runs, makes an ill advised throw, or takes a sack.
He makes some nice passes, makes plays with his legs. But then the drive stalls.
He is a guy who doesn’t read a defense well and has little pocket awareness. He is a good QB when the defense is in the exact scheme he expects and his first read gets open. In those instances he delivers a nice ball. But when the defense disguises or mixes up the look on him, or his first read is not open? Panic sets in and he either runs, makes an ill advised throw, or takes a sack.
Now while Jones is not good. Can really not tell if he reads the defense well, how often does he have time to survey the field, it is usually a look and he has to get rid of it. Plus, the route concepts have been weak. Don’t see anything that shows he can be good, but his circumstances also dictate that. Fixation on him being the main problem is completely wrong, giants need to use the first four picks on ol, Er, a fast LB who can play downhill
Why speak in an absolute? How do you know this? There very well might be a GM from the outside, what if Jones continues to play like he did last week? He just automatically gets next year?
I wouldn’t be so sure.
He makes some nice passes, makes plays with his legs. But then the drive stalls.
Exactly.
The drive I'll always remember him for is the one against Pittsburgh in week 1 of the 2020 season. Jones moved the ball so well from inside the Giants own 5, something like 19 play drive and gets the team inside the redzone and makes a dumbass fucking throw that gets picked off by Cameron Heyward.
That one pissed me the fuck off so much. Make every excuse you want in the book but that's why this team barely ever wins games.
Yeah that's great he was the prom King, was respectful of his father in his younger years and has an iron smile but he's not good. You can play smart all you want trying to question the truth. That's what it is. See Mr. Philosophical Question post above.
What is knowledge?
What will the wager be?...
;)
Sorta like the Jets did when they traded Darnold for a 6 (2021), a 2 and a 4 (2022).
In any case, even with some improvement in his game from here to end of the year, Jones' hopes of getting a second contract from Giants is probably gone. And any franchise tag thoughts down the road looks more like a hail mary at this point...
he was handicapped by an OC who is a Dallas Cowboy fan, and a RB who reminds me of Dayne for No Gain
Hopefully Freddy is ready and Booker gets his job back
Do you mean Gabbert?
Archie Manning would pull a Eli Manning if the Giants tried to draft Arch Manning.
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He will bet the starting quarterback for the New York Football Giants in 2022
Why speak in an absolute? How do you know this? There very well might be a GM from the outside, what if Jones continues to play like he did last week? He just automatically gets next year?
I wouldn’t be so sure.
Sean, most every post on this thread is stated-as an absolute
Just my opinion, that the odds favor him being the quarterback next season
Is Jones any good? There's no way to tell with a bad team like the Giants. I'm not saying he's perfect, or even above average, but this situation here is horrible for any QB.
The line stinks as bad as the playcalling was under Garrett, and you can't keep your WR's/Stad RB on the field. Until that is resolved, you're not going to get good QB play here.
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Coming in for mop up duty like we saw Bortles spell Brady on MNF. Just a matter of for who and if it's in 22 or 23
Do you mean Gabbert?
I got Blaine and Blake mixed up lol. Although Bortles did come in recently too for garbage time
Is Jones any good? There's no way to tell with a bad team like the Giants. I'm not saying he's perfect, or even above average, but this situation here is horrible for any QB.
The line stinks as bad as the playcalling was under Garrett, and you can't keep your WR's/Stad RB on the field. Until that is resolved, you're not going to get good QB play here.
They run an air raid offense which is essentially a simplified college style offense, not surprising a prototypical college QB like McCoy does well in it. Wouldn't be shocked if he ran it in college.
We probably tried to run a pro style pre-snap read adjustment motion chess match post snap two sides of the field 5 receiver progression with him.
Quote:
In comment 15467976 joeinpa said:
Quote:
He will bet the starting quarterback for the New York Football Giants in 2022
Why speak in an absolute? How do you know this? There very well might be a GM from the outside, what if Jones continues to play like he did last week? He just automatically gets next year?
I wouldn’t be so sure.
Sean, most every post on this thread is stated-as an absolute
Just my opinion, that the odds favor him being the quarterback next season
I agree he's probably the quarterback next season. The odds also favor Jones being a lousy quarterback again next season too.
Quote:
In comment 15467978 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15467976 joeinpa said:
Quote:
He will bet the starting quarterback for the New York Football Giants in 2022
Why speak in an absolute? How do you know this? There very well might be a GM from the outside, what if Jones continues to play like he did last week? He just automatically gets next year?
I wouldn’t be so sure.
Sean, most every post on this thread is stated-as an absolute
Just my opinion, that the odds favor him being the quarterback next season
I agree he's probably the quarterback next season. The odds also favor Jones being a lousy quarterback again next season too.
We ll see.
Well my friend unfortunately for you the people who will be making the decision on Jones don t agree the dye has been cast.
They re probably not as knowledgeable as you regarding whether his abilities warrant him coming back next season, but they nevertheless get to make the decision.
I haven’t given up on Jones, I want it to work because that would be best for the team, you call it gloating, 👌
The reality is that he stinks.
-Kyler Murray in year 3 has Arizona competing for the NFC
-Josh Allen in year 3 reached the AFC title game
-Baker Mayfield in year 3 reached the AFC divisional game
-Lamar Jackson won a MVP and regularly has the Ravens contending
-Justin Herbert in year 2 has the Chargers in the playoff race
-Joe Burrow has the Bengals of all teams and a shitty OL competing
Rosen was a bust and the Cardinals moved on. The Jets moved off of Darnold. There are already rumblings the Dolphins want to move off of Tua.
It is year 3 and the Giants aren’t competing with Jones. His record as a starter is 11-24 as a starter, take out WFT and it is 7-23.
What am I missing? Someone please make it make sense. Please. Jones is a nice kid and likable player. I really do admire his work ethic and his toughness, but it’s over. The whole point of drafting Jones was because of his high floor and the fact he was coached up in college, it has not mattered. It’s over.
The reality is that he stinks.
You can’t separate opinion from fact.
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You can't separate what you want from reality?
The reality is that he stinks.
You can’t separate opinion from fact.
I can't? Hilarious.
Needs to really excel with freddie kitchens in order to enter the next offseason without looking over his shoulder and odds of that are very low.
Colt McCoy was the QB for the best Giants win from 2017-present.
Don't you guys ever grasp the argumentation that even comparing Jones to McCoy in the first place and in 2021 isn't a good look for Jones?
Yeah. Jones is supposed to be miles better than McCoy. I was hoping this would be a given when the Giants picked him at 6 overall.
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In comment 15468627 Go Terps said:
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You can't separate what you want from reality?
The reality is that he stinks.
You can’t separate opinion from fact.
I can't? Hilarious.
Let me help you out.
Fact Jones is quarterback of the Giants
Fact: Giants have not been successful with him as quarterback
Fact: Offense has not been effective with him as quarterback
He will never be good enough to win with. ..... Opinion
Unless you know something the rest of us don’t, it appears even the Giants haven’t determined the answer to the future of Jones as their quarterback
The reality is that he stinks.
Would you sign up for this scenario: Giants run the table and win the division and Jones gets a. second contract? B. 5th year option picked up. C. 5th year option and gettlemen doesn’t get fired D. You’d rather the giants let se every game for the rest and f the year and get blown out in most times of them?
Quote:
You can't separate what you want from reality?
The reality is that he stinks.
Would you sign up for this scenario: Giants run the table and win the division and Jones gets a. second contract? B. 5th year option picked up. C. 5th year option and gettlemen doesn’t get fired D. You’d rather the giants let se every game for the rest and f the year and get blown out in most times of them?
This is barely readable but I think I get the point.
The Giants aren't going to win the division. That's real life.
You guys act like the critics are responsible for the Giants losing. We aren't. They suck, and we're observing why the suck and the likelihood that they are going to continue to suck as long as they keep doing things the way they do.
We all want them to compete for titles. They aren't going to do it with a backup level quarterback leading the way. It's just not going to happen.
I do have a problem with anyone presenting their opinion as an undisputed fact. Either way.
I listen to tons of podcasts. I watch all 22 when I can. I rewatch games. I’m still an amateur.
The “experts” have wide ranging opinions on the qb. I don’t accept any of them as fact either. There is no fact. There is a continuous collection of information until a decision is made by the organization.
Gettlemen is dead man walking. Whoever is next will have a short time to prove they deserve the job. If they think the qb is a hindrance to their job security he will be gone. It’s really that simple
I hope Jones turns things around, for himself and the team. I rooted for Jeff Hostetler in 1991 and Dave Brown in 1994, with Phil Simms still very much in mind. Similarly, I'm sure even Eli's most loyal fans are rooting for Jones. Like Hoss, the kid can do things his gunslinging predecessor couldn't, especially with his feet. Even thirty years ago, though, it was hard to win with a quarterback who couldn't throw into tight windows and score TDs. It's nearly impossible today. If Daniel Jones doesn't start doing those things soon, he'll join Mitch Trubisky (and many others) among backups hoping for a second chance that might never come.
It’s over.
I get your point about quarterbacks needing to achieve some measure of success early, but the sample of good QBs who have entered the NFL over the past 15 years might be too small for a meaningful precedent. I think Jones has to be judged on his own merits.
Other posters have pointed out that Brees and maybe Roethlisberger posted some anemic results their first three seasons, but again before the current era.
The best counter argument to my point I think is Kirk Cousins. It’s possible although not at all certain that Jones can reach Cousins level. I grant that point.