If Judge is back it can't be with a "win in 2022 or else mandate". This team isn't likely to be a winner in 2022 unless they trade for one of the big vet quarterbacks like Rodgers or Wilson.
This roster is like a house that was built by someone with no knowledge of how to build a house. There's no foundation, the roof leaks, all the wrong materials were used... it's basically a big pile of useless shit. It needs to be knocked down and completely rebuilt. And this time it needs to be built according to a blueprint that's been put together by a team of architects and engineers.
That process is going to take time. Forget these past two years - they were thrown away by the owner and GM.
Either you believe Judge is the guy for a long term project or you do not. If you do, then his survival beyond 2022 can't be based on the team's record.
A comprehensive plan is needed.
I can agree with that, but his game management needs to improve. They knew going in there would be a learning curve with him, but he too needs to show improvement in some areas to warrant keeping around
You know who had great game management? McAdoo in 2016.
So managing the game is unimportant? I’m not sure I follow what you saying. What successful NFL coach is a poor game manager?
I agree that you can’t really bring in a new GM and tell the coach to win now with a completely mismanaged cap and roster. But you sure as hell should be telling him he needs to clean up the myriad of mistakes he made this year on his own.
- You need manage the clock much better than you did
- Your team (offense and defense) need to stop having so much trouble getting the right personnel on the field and lined up
- You have to stop using time outs randomly (often because of the point above)
- You have to understand basic rules of the game like ‘all scoring plays are reviewed and you can’t challenge them’
- You can’t throw away roster spots on guys who are average special teams players but can’t play offense or defense
That is all stuff that is squarely on Joe Judge, not Gettleman and this horrible roster.
judge in his third year goes 1-5 to start the season and demonstrates a continued inability to manage timeouts and other in-game basics, looks flat and uncompetitive against any team in the league over .500, and the giants end up with another losing record. abrams, the "capologist" with no football experience is going to be the one selecting a new HC?
we all but know this is what's going to happen. and what then when it does? abrams has shown himself to be nothing more than a clueless yes-man.
will mara reach out to garrett and just hire him as HC after a sham search? ya know, bc he was a backup QB for the giants one time, decades ago?
it would be so easy to just hire a football consulting company and outsource all these decisions to real professionals. for some reason, despite the last five years of evidence to the contrary, mara continues to think he knows better.
If Judge is back it can't be with a "win in 2022 or else mandate". This team isn't likely to be a winner in 2022 unless they trade for one of the big vet quarterbacks like Rodgers or Wilson.
This roster is like a house that was built by someone with no knowledge of how to build a house. There's no foundation, the roof leaks, all the wrong materials were used... it's basically a big pile of useless shit. It needs to be knocked down and completely rebuilt. And this time it needs to be built according to a blueprint that's been put together by a team of architects and engineers.
That process is going to take time. Forget these past two years - they were thrown away by the owner and GM.
Either you believe Judge is the guy for a long term project or you do not. If you do, then his survival beyond 2022 can't be based on the team's record.
A comprehensive plan is needed.
Thing is, I don't see any particular reason to keep him. If we're going to blow this thing up, blow it ALL the way up.
Though ... as long as Chris Mara still has power this team isn't blowing it ALL the way up.
everybody understands this is a deliberate story, right?
it's not about deep sourcing. this is the Giants organization putting this out there in an attempt to placate fans, and turn the story away from all the organization is completely incompetent and clueless stories that have begun to proliferate. the fact that Abrams is still mentioned as serious candidate - as one of several potential strong internal candidates (yuck) - shows you how they're still trying to spin. don't be surprised if stories start to dribble out about internal disagreements where Gettleman overruled other people in the building, or went against Judge's vision, etc as an attempt to justify not making more extensive changes. should be an interesting two months
The outcry among fans (and probably 75% of BBI were in the streets wielding pikes with his head on them) after it came out MacAdoo had decided to bench Eli. Mara quickly backtracked....and the oft noted irony here that it was the right decision (except for perception that Geno was wrong) and Mara's meddling was again the wrong decision.
It has to be a landslide of derision for the entitled, tone deaf, legacy football family that has completely lost its way due to the men in the suits. A horror show of optics. We'd think we were there.
My point is, if they don't fire him now then actually commit to him. Don't simply line him up as the next patsy.
If he's retained, start the clock over on him and write these last two years off as a Gettleman disaster.
Judge (or if he's fired, the new head coach) and the new GM should be tied at the hip - let them build their project together on the same time line. Sink or swim, they'll do it together.
terps is right in his last post. you either have to commit to judge now for multiple years in the future or fire him
why does the coach and GM being on the same timeline matter?
you have a ton of draft capital this year. drafting into a scheme matters. are you a power run team or a zone blocking team? west coast or vertical passing game? zone or press man defense? 3-4 or 4-3? you do not want to draft into judge's scheme with all these picks only to bring in a new coach who may run entirely different schemes.
if judge is on a 1 year trial run with a new GM, do you let judge pick a QB this year? what if the next coach doesn't like the QB (this could eliminate a lot of coaches from even interviewing)? or what if judge doesn't like the QB the GM picks? it's a recipe for a disaster
you cannot have the coach and GM on different timelines. you just can't. they need to be tied at the hip
think that was pretty much a given. What we don't want is for the Giants to promote from within. We need an outside approach, but not a former GM. I'd find someone on a team that has drafted well and is ready for their first GM job.
My point is, if they don't fire him now then actually commit to him. Don't simply line him up as the next patsy.
If he's retained, start the clock over on him and write these last two years off as a Gettleman disaster.
Judge (or if he's fired, the new head coach) and the new GM should be tied at the hip - let them build their project together on the same time line. Sink or swim, they'll do it together.
Abrams, Petit, Sternfeld should be shown the door quickly as well.
They’ve been a major part of the dysfunction and consistency in failure at multiple levels. Lack of self scouting and evaluation, lack of any fit at multiple positions that are critical to winning in today’s NFL.
I’d love to know how many besides Gettleman thought the Jones QB pick was a good move.
RE: everybody understands this is a deliberate story, right?
it's not about deep sourcing. this is the Giants organization putting this out there in an attempt to placate fans, and turn the story away from all the organization is completely incompetent and clueless stories that have begun to proliferate. the fact that Abrams is still mentioned as serious candidate - as one of several potential strong internal candidates (yuck) - shows you how they're still trying to spin. don't be surprised if stories start to dribble out about internal disagreements where Gettleman overruled other people in the building, or went against Judge's vision, etc as an attempt to justify not making more extensive changes. should be an interesting two months
^this nails it.
Abrams quick shiny trial ballon left no doubt for me.
Needs to look beyond Abrams and Patriots front office candidates . No half baked, half assed search otherwise we will likely be in the same spot 4 years from now.
Too many chefs who are each and collectively not good at their jobs. Judge is probably included in the steaming pile. He might be the one guy who gets a reprieve just so they can avoid cleaning house.
I will say too the article potentially props up Abrams, while also acknowledging they've got a ton of work to do to clean up and imo they need to start over.
My comments are in response to the RV article as well
My point is, if they don't fire him now then actually commit to him. Don't simply line him up as the next patsy.
If he's retained, start the clock over on him and write these last two years off as a Gettleman disaster.
Judge (or if he's fired, the new head coach) and the new GM should be tied at the hip - let them build their project together on the same time line. Sink or swim, they'll do it together.
Get all the oars rowing in unison for once.
Very good point, I agree with everything you said.
This roster is like a house that was built by someone with no knowledge of how to build a house. There's no foundation, the roof leaks, all the wrong materials were used... it's basically a big pile of useless shit. It needs to be knocked down and completely rebuilt. And this time it needs to be built according to a blueprint that's been put together by a team of architects and engineers.
That process is going to take time. Forget these past two years - they were thrown away by the owner and GM.
Either you believe Judge is the guy for a long term project or you do not. If you do, then his survival beyond 2022 can't be based on the team's record.
A comprehensive plan is needed.
I can agree with that, but his game management needs to improve. They knew going in there would be a learning curve with him, but he too needs to show improvement in some areas to warrant keeping around
So managing the game is unimportant? I’m not sure I follow what you saying. What successful NFL coach is a poor game manager?
I agree that you can’t really bring in a new GM and tell the coach to win now with a completely mismanaged cap and roster. But you sure as hell should be telling him he needs to clean up the myriad of mistakes he made this year on his own.
- You need manage the clock much better than you did
- Your team (offense and defense) need to stop having so much trouble getting the right personnel on the field and lined up
- You have to stop using time outs randomly (often because of the point above)
- You have to understand basic rules of the game like ‘all scoring plays are reviewed and you can’t challenge them’
- You can’t throw away roster spots on guys who are average special teams players but can’t play offense or defense
That is all stuff that is squarely on Joe Judge, not Gettleman and this horrible roster.
The game management stuff is one of a number of factors that has to right to win in a league designed for tight margins.
It might 3rd or 4th on the list, but it’s got to be good if you intend on making and winning in the playoffs.
we all but know this is what's going to happen. and what then when it does? abrams has shown himself to be nothing more than a clueless yes-man.
will mara reach out to garrett and just hire him as HC after a sham search? ya know, bc he was a backup QB for the giants one time, decades ago?
it would be so easy to just hire a football consulting company and outsource all these decisions to real professionals. for some reason, despite the last five years of evidence to the contrary, mara continues to think he knows better.
This roster is like a house that was built by someone with no knowledge of how to build a house. There's no foundation, the roof leaks, all the wrong materials were used... it's basically a big pile of useless shit. It needs to be knocked down and completely rebuilt. And this time it needs to be built according to a blueprint that's been put together by a team of architects and engineers.
That process is going to take time. Forget these past two years - they were thrown away by the owner and GM.
Either you believe Judge is the guy for a long term project or you do not. If you do, then his survival beyond 2022 can't be based on the team's record.
A comprehensive plan is needed.
Thing is, I don't see any particular reason to keep him. If we're going to blow this thing up, blow it ALL the way up.
Though ... as long as Chris Mara still has power this team isn't blowing it ALL the way up.
It has to be a landslide of derision for the entitled, tone deaf, legacy football family that has completely lost its way due to the men in the suits. A horror show of optics. We'd think we were there.
Hiring an outside GM that is worth anything...will want his own coaching
Staff...
So right or wrong, it will be Abrams
If he's retained, start the clock over on him and write these last two years off as a Gettleman disaster.
Judge (or if he's fired, the new head coach) and the new GM should be tied at the hip - let them build their project together on the same time line. Sink or swim, they'll do it together.
Get all the oars rowing in unison for once.
why does the coach and GM being on the same timeline matter?
you have a ton of draft capital this year. drafting into a scheme matters. are you a power run team or a zone blocking team? west coast or vertical passing game? zone or press man defense? 3-4 or 4-3? you do not want to draft into judge's scheme with all these picks only to bring in a new coach who may run entirely different schemes.
if judge is on a 1 year trial run with a new GM, do you let judge pick a QB this year? what if the next coach doesn't like the QB (this could eliminate a lot of coaches from even interviewing)? or what if judge doesn't like the QB the GM picks? it's a recipe for a disaster
you cannot have the coach and GM on different timelines. you just can't. they need to be tied at the hip
If he's retained, start the clock over on him and write these last two years off as a Gettleman disaster.
Judge (or if he's fired, the new head coach) and the new GM should be tied at the hip - let them build their project together on the same time line. Sink or swim, they'll do it together.
Get all the oars rowing in unison for once.
UGH, you are starting to win me over..
Link - ( New Window )
They’ve been a major part of the dysfunction and consistency in failure at multiple levels. Lack of self scouting and evaluation, lack of any fit at multiple positions that are critical to winning in today’s NFL.
I’d love to know how many besides Gettleman thought the Jones QB pick was a good move.
^this nails it.
Abrams quick shiny trial ballon left no doubt for me.
I will say too the article potentially props up Abrams, while also acknowledging they've got a ton of work to do to clean up and imo they need to start over.
and he won 11 games aided by it.
not a great argument
Everything with Mara comes down to optics. He’s obsessed with it.
I don’t want them to sell, they are good people and good for the league.
They just need to step back and get rid of the culture of nepotism and no accountability
If he's retained, start the clock over on him and write these last two years off as a Gettleman disaster.
Judge (or if he's fired, the new head coach) and the new GM should be tied at the hip - let them build their project together on the same time line. Sink or swim, they'll do it together.
Get all the oars rowing in unison for once.
Very good point, I agree with everything you said.
You are just not going to overcome that OLine. And, there are reports that he was not happy with the OC.
Can't be a bedwetter, making rash decisions.
Who is that can't miss HC prospect who will come in and right the ship? Last off season many were clamoring for Rhule.