The team faces a comprehensive failure. From scouting to coaching selection to cap management to use of data to corporate culture. The next GM needs to be able to successfully make progress on all these fronts. Draft selection is only a part of the task, although an important one.
The only people qualified to do this sort of work are high level personnel in high functioning NFL front offices. The Giants should ONLY interview assistant GMs at these leading organizations, like the Ravens, 49ers, Colts, etc.
This post is about what the Giants should do, not what we predict they will do.
Pats have been using ours for 20 years with success.
Untrue. Proof exists in the MLB and in industries throughout the U.S.
And I've been on that hike before: 1964-1980
Still got a long way to go: 2012-20??
That’s not what I am arguing so let me try to be clearer. The new GM will ideally make progress on the Giants’ numerous flaws. To do so, he will need to know what a high performing organization looks like and shape and guide the Giants towards that goal. I am definitely not suggesting a GM will singlehandedly do everything, but they need to know what high performance looks like.
I hate posts like this. What’s the point of following them then? If you think the situation is hopeless and it doesn’t matter what they do, why waste your time?
I fully believe bringing in a strong GM with a good personnel background can fix this. It all starts with finding the right QB. For the last half decade, the QB play has been bad, and it’s hard to win when the QB can’t elevate the roster.
Removing Coughlin without removing Reese/Ross.
Patching for another run with Eli
Shummur's defense....(I actually liked his offense.)
Now, is current crop a mistake? Is Judge a mistake? They certainly have made mistakes that were directly responsible for loses...they have much to learn! But
Burning it down every 2 years assures staying in losing cycle
Pats have been using ours for 20 years with success.
The exact recipe of the Super Bowl 42 & 46 championship teams.
What the heck has happened in the last decade? The league evolves, the game changes, but all of these things have been the pillars of a successful team for 100 years.
I was also pleased to see that Chiefs front office guy, Ryan Poles, is being looked at, although Poles’ boss, Mike Borgonzi, might be a better candidate.
No matter who they choose it’s a crapshoot.
Fwiw I do happen to agree with your idea. It’s way better than hiring Acorsi again to do a ‘search’ or promoting Abrams.
“We ain’t done shit yet,” the Colts assistant general manager told them. “We won a fucking wild-card game.”
You don’t get trophies for AFC wild-card games, and Dodds didn’t come to Indianapolis to win wild-card games. But two years in, anyone could see: the rebuild was working. The Colts had flipped 4-12 into 10-6, won a playoff game and had a roster stocked with young talent. The pundits couldn’t help but praise. The Colts were coming. Soon.
But Dodds didn’t wanna hear it, and didn’t want his scouts thinking it. If there’s anything that scares the hell out of him, it’s complacency. He fears it. Fights it. To him it just felt like it needed to be said, then and there, the night before they went to work at the Senior Bowl in late January...
Link - ( New Window )
If I had a vote I'd look for someone who has been a GM before. I know that means hiring someone who was probably fired for cause but I think the Giants need an experienced NFL executive with enough thick skin to deal with the dysfunction that is the Giants front office.
I heard Chris on Giants Insider endorse Scott Pioli. I wouldn't mind that choice at all. He had great success as part of the Belichick team in Chris Mara's current role. He flamed out as GM in KC. But the Giants GM and his role in KC are not the same job description. He's 56 years old. That's 14 years younger than the current Giants GM and he seems to have the temperament (at least publicly) that could work with the Mara brothers. Of course the fact that he's Bill Parcells son in law and maybe the Giants could tap into some of that 80 year old wisdom to mentor their young HC among others wouldn't hurt either.
I know I'll be in a tiny minority but that's my choice for next GM. This comes from the person who wanted Charlie Weis over Tom Coughlin in 2004. So take it for whatever it's worth.
Whoever the choice is, in my opinion, he can't be worse than the the GM the past 4 years.
Yeah. They have a 50 year history of screwing this team up going back to the late 60s and had to be saved by Pete Rozelle. Well good luck to the next GM. The Mara's will do their best to make sure this Franchise sucks. That's the only thing we can be sure on. They've made it their missions since the last Super Bowl
Next to preparation a common staple of football is execution. Giants are not executing in the draft.
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if the Giants keep running this as a family business and keep family members in all levels of power
I hate posts like this. What’s the point of following them then? If you think the situation is hopeless and it doesn’t matter what they do, why waste your time?
I fully believe bringing in a strong GM with a good personnel background can fix this. It all starts with finding the right QB. For the last half decade, the QB play has been bad, and it’s hard to win when the QB can’t elevate the roster.
Because 1) it’s true, and 2) people are giants fans and want them to be better
But Abrams being elevated would really annoy me because it is exactly what has been wrong with this organization for the past 10 years.
What they are doing is not working.
Best case of keeping Judge...an outside the org hire who makes all personnel decisions and uses 2022 to evaluate the coaching staff, Jones, etc.
There is a lot of talk about whether the GM works for the coach or the coach for the GM, and that model does vary around the league. But I think it is safe to assume that John Mara still believes in the latter. He values tradition over innovation. A GM hired from a successful organization who is given sufficient leeway to change how things are done would certainly be a step in the right direction.
Quote:
if the Giants keep running this as a family business and keep family members in all levels of power
I hate posts like this. What’s the point of following them then? If you think the situation is hopeless and it doesn’t matter what they do, why waste your time?
I fully believe bringing in a strong GM with a good personnel background can fix this. It all starts with finding the right QB. For the last half decade, the QB play has been bad, and it’s hard to win when the QB can’t elevate the roster.
Because with enough pressure anything can happen.
You combine fan discussion with media coverage and the shit show of results on the field and something has to give.
You think the Tischs or the silent mara brothers and sisters are happy with whats going on? And it HAS to be hitting their pocketbook somewhat. I mean all these fired coaches they are paying gotta cut into some dividend checks.
The Patriots are the most successful organization but all their guys have flubbed elsewhere.
I think the Giants organizations problems start at the top. Hiring a few guys is not going to fix that.
didn't dodds turn down a GM interview for the browns job, and pull out of another GM search he was going to be interviewed for?
i agree it doesn't hurt to look into it, but i seriously doubt a guy like dodds would want to come into an organizational structure like the giants have. seems dysfunctional, and the exact type of situation that experienced successful executives would want to stay far away from.
But Abrams being elevated would really annoy me because it is exactly what has been wrong with this organization for the past 10 years.
What they are doing is not working.
Best case of keeping Judge...an outside the org hire who makes all personnel decisions and uses 2022 to evaluate the coaching staff, Jones, etc.
They had a pocket of about 5 years where they were competent, and rode Eli's magic carpet to 2 chips
And there were quite a few stumbles during that stretch too
this strikes me as an overly generous interpretation and is not exactly true from my vantage.
the giants drafts seemed to start spiraling as soon as ross came aboard. coughlin was reluctant to play reese draft pick specials like jernell jernigan and ramses barden. there was definitely tension there.
the team that won the second superbowl in 2011-12 was running on fumes. thankfully drafting JPP and a few wise FA signings (canty/boley) was enough to put them over the top that year. but i am not really sure that reese ever liked eli even though he should get most of the credit for that second SB run.
Not too different from the nine year stretch the Giants had from 1983-1991 where the only losing season they had was the strike year.
The Giants success and the Mara’s involvement is directly proportionate to the qualification of the front office and coaching staff.m
I don’t think the Maras are sitting their itching to get involved. When they fuck up the hires, then they get their noses in it.
Its great that we got 4 trophies out of it, but I don't think you can hang your hat on that ownership model.
here is a quote from Judge's into presser, mara said something similar but I cant find it now
"It's a family business for our ownership and it's a family business for myself. My children have all been born in this business. Knowing that your passion is football, that your desire to win is what you truly love and that benefits your family and you're representing something bigger than yourself."
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The Giants operated perfectly well with Reese, Gettleman, and Coughlin in charge. With qualified professionals in the right seats the Giants will be fine.
this strikes me as an overly generous interpretation and is not exactly true from my vantage.
the giants drafts seemed to start spiraling as soon as ross came aboard.
Ross joined the Giants in 2007 and was described as running the drafts from 2008 forward.
The Giants drafted an number of significant contributors to the 2011 championship teams in 08. 09, and 10.
I’m not defending the long term quality of work any of those guys did beyond the 2012 season. They did a good job for a period of time, and they didn’t.
The issue isn’t what Ross, Reese, Coughlin, and Gettleman did. It’s what the next cast of characters didn’t do.
Coaches and other FO staff come and go but they remain and get promoted
2022 would let a new GM see what he has in both coaches and players and then go from there.
It is like saying we should hire a coach bellichek assitant. oh wait we did that too. "assistants" to great football executives doesn't mean jack shit. They ware "assistants " for a reason.
So I’d say that if the criteria I laid out had been used in the last search, the Giants would have made a much better GM hire with very different and better results.
There is a lot of talk about whether the GM works for the coach or the coach for the GM, and that model does vary around the league. But I think it is safe to assume that John Mara still believes in the latter. He values tradition over innovation. A GM hired from a successful organization who is given sufficient leeway to change how things are done would certainly be a step in the right direction.
John Mara doesn't believe in that model and the Giants haven't had that model since maybe 1997.
The HC and GM both report to the owner(s) in this organization.
Coaches and other FO staff come and go but they remain and get promoted
Part of me thinks it might actually be best for the long run (next 20-30 years) if they just got it overwith and handed it to Tim McDonnell and watched him fail until the media crushed him.