Now we all know the track record of La Canfora, but it is interesting:
Garrett, a former head coach in Dallas and former Giants quarterback, had very strong support from ownership, and they also valued his prior head coaching experience with Judge lacking head coaching experience when he was hired from New England, where he served as special teams coach, in early 2020. Sources said Judge, 38, was already displeased with the overall state of the offense when he fired offensive line coach Marc Colombo last November, with some in that organization bracing for Garrett to be gone after the season, if not sooner.
"It was already bad between them then," said one source with knowledge of the situation. |
| Judge and Garrett never quite clicked, sources said, with the development of Daniel Jones, the team's first-round pick in 2019, a constant source of concern. Garrett is a conservative play-caller at his core, while Kitchens is a disciple of Super Bowl winning coach Bruce Arians, who espouses the deep ball and a "no risk-it, no biscuit" offensive philosophy. The Giants have struggled to integrate receivers Kenny Golladay and Kadarius Toney into the offense, which sources said is an immediate priority for Kitchens. |
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They all seem so completely and utterly lost with no real direction set in place.
Going against the wishes of the owner also moves Judge closer to the firing squad too.
But, I'd have done it too, this offense was putrid, and it shouldn't with these players. The move had to be done, sputtering our way to a 5-win season only to fire Garret at the end would just be delaying the inevitable.
Now we move the timetable on both Judge and Jones up, and I'm all for that.
JJ and JG were not a great match
MC obviously came with a JG signoff or even push.
Judge probably wanted JG gone but Mara's and by extension DG did not.
JG's play calling, player usage could very well have been an issue and still not necessarily meant JJ wanted a highly risky offensive game plan.
Go back a few weeks and kG screaming at JG and DJ, might be the same way JJ felt too.
Going against the wishes of the owner also moves Judge closer to the firing squad too.
But, I'd have done it too, this offense was putrid, and it shouldn't with these players. The move had to be done, sputtering our way to a 5-win season only to fire Garret at the end would just be delaying the inevitable.
Now we move the timetable on both Judge and Jones up, and I'm all for that.
Judge is not the issue. Mara has been very involved in football decisions for a very long time now. I think it probably has slowly increase around 2009. That is why I don't put the mess all on DG as well. It is "collaborative". He does not shy away from saying it so why think he is not following it. Don't you think John and Chris have very deep conversations outside the building?
Isn't this more or less everyday life?
Judge wants to play a field position game every week. For some reason he has not realized our special teams (Outside of Gano) are atrocious.
It is sheer absurdity to believe Judge wanted this offense to be more aggressive all along. I think now you will see the play calling more aggressive because Judge knows this isn’t working and there is now no scapegoat for him to blame it on.
Garrett's play calling was horrific
Running of 1st and 2nd downs with a RB that cannot do more than 1-2 yds per carry
Allowing the opponents to load up the box most of the time
It was very very painful to watch; I hope Freddy has some aces in his play calling today
If I see anymore Barkley runs on most 1st and 2nd downs I will pull my hair out
Also, more of the same is a condemnation of the rest of the staff.
Giddy up!
Rah Rah Joe has been screaming to throw the ball to Golladay but that dastardly Jason Garrett had Daniel Jones tied to the train tracks. Boy, that Jason Garrett was a bad dude! Ruined this entire franchise. All by himself.
Give me a break. Joe Judge is in so far over his head. I’m still waiting for someone to tell what this guy does well beside spewing coaching cliches at the pressers. To me, this isn’t any more complicated than a lousy coach, a lousy GM and a lousy QB. The only thing the Giants can do is reset the GM with no strings attached. But if people think this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired then I think they’re going to be disappointed.
Rah Rah Joe has been screaming to throw the ball to Golladay but that dastardly Jason Garrett had Daniel Jones tied to the train tracks. Boy, that Jason Garrett was a bad dude! Ruined this entire franchise. All by himself.
Give me a break. Joe Judge is in so far over his head. I’m still waiting for someone to tell what this guy does well beside spewing coaching cliches at the pressers. To me, this isn’t any more complicated than a lousy coach, a lousy GM and a lousy QB. The only thing the Giants can do is reset the GM with no strings attached. But if people think this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired then I think they’re going to be disappointed.
Lousy coach, lousy GM, lousy QB. Kyle be the headline for sure. There made other lousy things but those three together cannot be overcome.
Rah Rah Joe has been screaming to throw the ball to Golladay but that dastardly Jason Garrett had Daniel Jones tied to the train tracks. Boy, that Jason Garrett was a bad dude! Ruined this entire franchise. All by himself.
Give me a break. Joe Judge is in so far over his head. I’m still waiting for someone to tell what this guy does well beside spewing coaching cliches at the pressers. To me, this isn’t any more complicated than a lousy coach, a lousy GM and a lousy QB. The only thing the Giants can do is reset the GM with no strings attached. But if people think this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired then I think they’re going to be disappointed.
Is there even one person on the planet that thinks “this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired”? Or are you just making shit up? I haven’t seen one person say that. It’s literally impossible to turn over an entire offensive system at this point.
It’s ok to acknowledge that more changes will have to be made while also acknowledging that Jason Garrett and his antiquated system were a big part of the problem. Certainly not the only problem and nobody is saying he was. But that won’t stop you from throwing your hissy fit if things don’t get instantly better, so what’s the point.
Bruh, try the pot with the orange handle.
No matter how brilliant the coach there comes a point where they only can get so much production.
You guys are ALL idiots. The LAST thing any organization can show is instability. Mara has somewhat tied his own hands by changing coaches and a GM within the last 5 years. He has a "Get out of jail free card" with DG because his contract is up and he will be "encouraged" to retire. But changing the coach who isn't even through year 2 yet is a BAD BAD idea. No one wants to come to work for you if you are so unstable they can kick you out the door at the drop of a hat. Think about that for a minute.
Re: Judge is conservative and he does not want to open the offense up more?
Yep, he is conservative to a certain extent. However, do you truly believe that the Giants would sign Golladay and draft Toney if Judge wanted to sit on the ball? You could throw Rudolph in there too, but he is more of a 3rd down and 4 yd to go TE or a red zone TE - and yet how many times has he been used that way? How many times have the Giants tried to get the ball to Golladay in the red zone?
Was he on a short list...sure but no way....Judge didn't have full control of his staff.
I don’t think anyone needs La Canfora to know that Judge and Garrett have had issues. It’s been speculated from very early on. Judge firing Columbo last season was likely the first glimpse into their relationship but from the outside, it just appeared to me that they never really loved each other all that much…
Rah Rah Joe has been screaming to throw the ball to Golladay but that dastardly Jason Garrett had Daniel Jones tied to the train tracks. Boy, that Jason Garrett was a bad dude! Ruined this entire franchise. All by himself.
Give me a break. Joe Judge is in so far over his head. I’m still waiting for someone to tell what this guy does well beside spewing coaching cliches at the pressers. To me, this isn’t any more complicated than a lousy coach, a lousy GM and a lousy QB. The only thing the Giants can do is reset the GM with no strings attached. But if people think this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired then I think they’re going to be disappointed.
What did you want Judge to do? Tell Mara to fuck off? Good luck trying that shit at your job buddy!
FYI, Giants Insider said this on Podcast 50B days ago.
It may not have worked out based on the hindsight results, but until the Offense starts scoring points under any other OC it will be silly to act as if Judge was improperly burdened with Garrett either. They don't score predominately because of the lack of talent on the field, underpinned by an awful set of offensive linemen that do not allow any offense to properly function.
Conspiracy theories aside that ownership is the underlying cause of every problem that exists with this team, if Judge had to have Garrett out after 2020 he could have made it happen...
This smells like Giants propaganda trying to provide cover for ownership and Judge though.
It’s the same issue the Knicks have had with James Dolan, and they’ve only recently started to find success once he realized he needed to take a step back. Fortunately for Knicks fans, Dolan has other interests and businesses to distract him, I’m not sure you’ll ever see the Maras step aside and let the actual football people do their thing.
It may not have worked out based on the hindsight results, but until the Offense starts scoring points under any other OC it will be silly to act as if Judge was improperly burdened with Garrett either. They don't score predominately because of the lack of talent on the field, underpinned by an awful set of offensive linemen that do not allow any offense to properly function.
Conspiracy theories aside that ownership is the underlying cause of every problem that exists with this team, if Judge had to have Garrett out after 2020 he could have made it happen...
you're contradicting yourself.
it is not a "conspiracy theory" that ownership is the cause of every problem that exists when it is ownership that put together the half-assed searches that netted duds like mcadoo, gettleman and shurmur? this is the same owner that "strongly suggested" garrett be hired as OC, since judge had never been a head coach anywhere prior to being hired as HC to "build a program" here, despite having never built one anywhere, ever.
question: do you think mara would have suggested garrett as OC if he hadn't been a backup quarterback for the giants two decades ago?
it's beyond clear that an inept and meddlesome ownership is one of the principal reasons why the team has been a disaster since 2013 and has gotten progressively worse every year since 2016.
the people hiring the incompetent people are the incompetent owners.
This smells like Giants propaganda trying to provide cover for ownership and Judge though.
How does this provide cover for anyone?
Both Judge and Mara look bad here for different reasons.
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Mara said off the bat he wanted a first year HC like Judge to hire some experienced assistant coaches. Of course there was some level of ownership push/recommendation for Judge to take on Garrett.
It may not have worked out based on the hindsight results, but until the Offense starts scoring points under any other OC it will be silly to act as if Judge was improperly burdened with Garrett either. They don't score predominately because of the lack of talent on the field, underpinned by an awful set of offensive linemen that do not allow any offense to properly function.
Conspiracy theories aside that ownership is the underlying cause of every problem that exists with this team, if Judge had to have Garrett out after 2020 he could have made it happen...
you're contradicting yourself.
it is not a "conspiracy theory" that ownership is the cause of every problem that exists when it is ownership that put together the half-assed searches that netted duds like mcadoo, gettleman and shurmur? this is the same owner that "strongly suggested" garrett be hired as OC, since judge had never been a head coach anywhere prior to being hired as HC to "build a program" here, despite having never built one anywhere, ever.
question: do you think mara would have suggested garrett as OC if he hadn't been a backup quarterback for the giants two decades ago?
it's beyond clear that an inept and meddlesome ownership is one of the principal reasons why the team has been a disaster since 2013 and has gotten progressively worse every year since 2016.
the people hiring the incompetent people are the incompetent owners.
No contradiction...ownership could and should be better but you are better off pointing to weak areas/people that they are not addressing or doing so quickly enough.
McAdoo and Shurmur (and Garrett) didn't work but they also didn't last very long. Criticize the hire but not that they didn't recognize it and move on.
Getts keeping his job this long is absolutely fair game and where you should pin your ears back as to ownership missing it plain and clear. His incompetence was clear years ago and the true cause of the mess they are in...not family meddling.
You guys are ALL idiots. The LAST thing any organization can show is instability. Mara has somewhat tied his own hands by changing coaches and a GM within the last 5 years. He has a "Get out of jail free card" with DG because his contract is up and he will be "encouraged" to retire. But changing the coach who isn't even through year 2 yet is a BAD BAD idea. No one wants to come to work for you if you are so unstable they can kick you out the door at the drop of a hat. Think about that for a minute.
In this world, some people seem to have a knack for judging shit from shinola. You are probably not in that group, Dave.
The troubling aspect is this may mean Mara is more resolved to keep judge now
Garrett is a Mara friend. There was no firing him with all the built in excuses for last season. "First year in the offense, covid, rookie LT".
Anyone who thinks Judge could have fired a friend of the owner whenever he wanted to is totally naive.
Isn't this more or less everyday life?
Good point, actually. Never thought about it this way.
If I'm Head Coach the Offensive Coordinator is running my offensive scheme based on talent.
Period.
If not then I'm collecting a big paycheck and my head coaching career is ruined. I made a business decision.
I'll see you on the beach when it's all over.
Anyone who thinks that Jason Garrett would have been Joe Judge's OC without the Mara's doesn't have a clue what team they root for.
Jason Garrett was an awful OC and should not have been brought back this year. The Giants were the worst offense in the NFL last year or 2nd worse depending on how you want to evaluate their stats. He hadn't been an OC for almost a decade before he was hired and he was awful running a very talented offense as HC in Dallas.
Whether or not Joe Judge is any better than as a Head Coach than Garrett was an OC is a different conversation.
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Such a victim here in the big city. He wanted to hire Freddie Kitchens as O-co but mean Mr Mara forced the evil Jason Garrett on him! And then he he wanted fire Jason Garrett at the beginning of the season but, drat! Foiled again but that meddling owner and those!
Rah Rah Joe has been screaming to throw the ball to Golladay but that dastardly Jason Garrett had Daniel Jones tied to the train tracks. Boy, that Jason Garrett was a bad dude! Ruined this entire franchise. All by himself.
Give me a break. Joe Judge is in so far over his head. I’m still waiting for someone to tell what this guy does well beside spewing coaching cliches at the pressers. To me, this isn’t any more complicated than a lousy coach, a lousy GM and a lousy QB. The only thing the Giants can do is reset the GM with no strings attached. But if people think this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired then I think they’re going to be disappointed.
Is there even one person on the planet that thinks “this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired”? Or are you just making shit up? I haven’t seen one person say that. It’s literally impossible to turn over an entire offensive system at this point.
It’s ok to acknowledge that more changes will have to be made while also acknowledging that Jason Garrett and his antiquated system were a big part of the problem. Certainly not the only problem and nobody is saying he was. But that won’t stop you from throwing your hissy fit if things don’t get instantly better, so what’s the point.
t is not really a "big part". Garrett is basically a pimple on the ass of the trifecta of arena leaguers of Jones ; Joe "time out" Judge" and resume Dave.
Yet like 90 % of the posters want to blame Garrett. Yea he is an easy target: a former cowboy, he is not particulary good. But yea let's pretend that Jones even knows how to throw a back shoulder throw. He is an extreme hindrance of a QB. Judge is basically not HC material and Gettle is the pits but Garrett Garrett Garrett.
Yet like 90 % of the posters want to blame Garrett. Yea he is an easy target: a former cowboy, he is not particulary good. But yea let's pretend that Jones even knows how to throw a back shoulder throw. He is an extreme hindrance of a QB. Judge is basically not HC material and Gettle is the pits but Garrett Garrett Garrett.
Garrett was awful and whether you like it or not, he was a big part of the problem. No doubt DG is a big cause if not the biggest, but that doesn't mean Garrett gets a pass. Hi offense and it sucks.
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Yet like 90 % of the posters want to blame Garrett. Yea he is an easy target: a former cowboy, he is not particulary good. But yea let's pretend that Jones even knows how to throw a back shoulder throw. He is an extreme hindrance of a QB. Judge is basically not HC material and Gettle is the pits but Garrett Garrett Garrett.
Garrett was awful and whether you like it or not, he was a big part of the problem. No doubt DG is a big cause if not the biggest, but that doesn't mean Garrett gets a pass. Hi offense and it sucks.
Jones is about 10x the problem Garrett was. If Garrett was even that bad. NOT SAYING HE IS GOOD. But it is kind of weird to have 3 easily identifying bigger problems with this team but gettle did not get fired ang Garrett did. This taeam looked like shit today. McVay could not do shit w these guys and neither could Garrett who is not as good as him
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In comment 15470905 Debaser said:
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Yet like 90 % of the posters want to blame Garrett. Yea he is an easy target: a former cowboy, he is not particulary good. But yea let's pretend that Jones even knows how to throw a back shoulder throw. He is an extreme hindrance of a QB. Judge is basically not HC material and Gettle is the pits but Garrett Garrett Garrett.
Garrett was awful and whether you like it or not, he was a big part of the problem. No doubt DG is a big cause if not the biggest, but that doesn't mean Garrett gets a pass. Hi offense and it sucks.
Jones is about 10x the problem Garrett was. If Garrett was even that bad. NOT SAYING HE IS GOOD. But it is kind of weird to have 3 easily identifying bigger problems with this team but gettle did not get fired ang Garrett did. This taeam looked like shit today. McVay could not do shit w these guys and neither could Garrett who is not as good as him
Still thinking that Garrett wasn't a problem, is a problem.
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In comment 15470919 section125 said:
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In comment 15470905 Debaser said:
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Yet like 90 % of the posters want to blame Garrett. Yea he is an easy target: a former cowboy, he is not particulary good. But yea let's pretend that Jones even knows how to throw a back shoulder throw. He is an extreme hindrance of a QB. Judge is basically not HC material and Gettle is the pits but Garrett Garrett Garrett.
Garrett was awful and whether you like it or not, he was a big part of the problem. No doubt DG is a big cause if not the biggest, but that doesn't mean Garrett gets a pass. Hi offense and it sucks.
Jones is about 10x the problem Garrett was. If Garrett was even that bad. NOT SAYING HE IS GOOD. But it is kind of weird to have 3 easily identifying bigger problems with this team but gettle did not get fired ang Garrett did. This taeam looked like shit today. McVay could not do shit w these guys and neither could Garrett who is not as good as him
Still thinking that Garrett wasn't a problem, is a problem.
Still thinking that Jones isn't a biggest problem on this team is a problem.