Now we all know the track record of La Canfora, but it is interesting:
Garrett, a former head coach in Dallas and former Giants quarterback, had very strong support from ownership, and they also valued his prior head coaching experience with Judge lacking head coaching experience when he was hired from New England, where he served as special teams coach, in early 2020. Sources said Judge, 38, was already displeased with the overall state of the offense when he fired offensive line coach Marc Colombo last November, with some in that organization bracing for Garrett to be gone after the season, if not sooner.
"It was already bad between them then," said one source with knowledge of the situation. |
| Judge and Garrett never quite clicked, sources said, with the development of Daniel Jones, the team's first-round pick in 2019, a constant source of concern. Garrett is a conservative play-caller at his core, while Kitchens is a disciple of Super Bowl winning coach Bruce Arians, who espouses the deep ball and a "no risk-it, no biscuit" offensive philosophy. The Giants have struggled to integrate receivers Kenny Golladay and Kadarius Toney into the offense, which sources said is an immediate priority for Kitchens. |
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Don't make the wrong decision for your team and especially the QB by keeping him. Head coaches are the opposite of powerless.
Don't make the wrong decision for your team and especially the QB by keeping him. Head coaches are the opposite of powerless.
So you want a first year head coach to overrule the owner? Haha. Yeah ok.
Sure makes the game today more interesting.
Don't make the wrong decision for your team and especially the QB by keeping him. Head coaches are the opposite of powerless.
Judge was 38 taking the job, he’s not going to overrule the owner. He probably felt this was his first legitimate chance to force the issue.
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it is his job and his job on the line. It doesn't matter if it makes people in the organization uncomfortable, fire him. Put out a press release he's fired. Take away the play calling publicly so he quits. Do what you have to do.
Don't make the wrong decision for your team and especially the QB by keeping him. Head coaches are the opposite of powerless.
So you want a first year head coach to overrule the owner? Haha. Yeah ok.
You think Mara would stand in the way of him deciding who calls the plays?
If Judge truly wanted him out he would have been out. At this point everyone involved Garrett included would probably prefer it happened last January - and it's on Judge first and foremost that it took this long.
In any event, we will soon know if the problem is the roster, the play calling, or Jones. Probably a little bit of all 3, but we know Jones and likely Judge are here for one more year anyway.
Unlike most posters, I don't know if I'd want a new GM to handle the hiring of a new coach right away. Let's give him a grace period, if his first year goes badly then he can blame it on Judge and Jones and clean house.
Yeah, because that'll be DG's decision to 'move on'. Fire his ass now.
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In comment 15469085 Eric on Li said:
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it is his job and his job on the line. It doesn't matter if it makes people in the organization uncomfortable, fire him. Put out a press release he's fired. Take away the play calling publicly so he quits. Do what you have to do.
Don't make the wrong decision for your team and especially the QB by keeping him. Head coaches are the opposite of powerless.
So you want a first year head coach to overrule the owner? Haha. Yeah ok.
You think Mara would stand in the way of him deciding who calls the plays?
If Judge truly wanted him out he would have been out. At this point everyone involved Garrett included would probably prefer it happened last January - and it's on Judge first and foremost that it took this long.
You have your head in the sand. If Mara says Garrett stays, Garrett stays. And Judge being a first year HC coach certainly wasn’t going to go to battle with the freakin owner in his first year. Everyone on the planet knows Mara has a soft spot for Garrett and there is no way in hell he would allow him to be fired in his first season on the job. Mara is very sensitive to optics and firing Garrett that soon would look awful. Joe Judge had no say in the matter that early on, I guarantee it.
if Judge was so dead set against Garrett and Mara refused to let him fire him, why did it take 12 weeks to even try a different playcaller? That could have been done months ago at a bare minimum even without firing him.
All that said, this also smells like propaganda from the team to help their scapegoat strategy go forward. A head had to roll. It also boggles the mind that Garrett or any coach would not want to get the most dynamic playmakers involved. Golladay has been hurt as always and may also just not be up to the job, and Toney has been hurt all the time too. Garrett doesn't seem that dumb. I think that is too simple.
Scapegoat to buy more time for Jones and Judge to try to avoid flaming out.
What a mess of an organization.
In any event, we will soon know if the problem is the roster, the play calling, or Jones. Probably a little bit of all 3, but we know Jones and likely Judge are here for one more year anyway.
Unlike most posters, I don't know if I'd want a new GM to handle the hiring of a new coach right away. Let's give him a grace period, if his first year goes badly then he can blame it on Judge and Jones and clean house.
Good point, Judge has coached very conservatiely in game. Now we are supposed to believe it was Garret holding the HC back from the wide open high risk "no risk it - no biscuit" attack? They needed a head to roll.
if Judge was so dead set against Garrett and Mara refused to let him fire him, why did it take 12 weeks to even try a different playcaller? That could have been done months ago at a bare minimum even without firing him.
Forget it. It’s obvious that you just started watching this team and have no idea how Mara operates. Keep telling yourself that Judge has more influence than the owner if it’ll make you feel better,
You act like Judge has as much say as Andy Reid or Mike Tomlin. You may WANT Judge to be the one and only decision maker. But that’s a fantasy. Nothing more at this point. Mara wasn’t letting a first year HC tell him to fire his friend who was also in his first season on the job. No matter how much you seem to want to believe it’s the case.
ah yes the business ramifications of firing Jason Garrett and his salary that's likely lower than the league minimum for a veteran player. Would have definitely cost them at the gate.
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if you think any head coach is a powerless bystander you are mistaken. They can and have to run the team on the field exactly the way they want. If they don't it's only a matter of time before they get fired either way.
if Judge was so dead set against Garrett and Mara refused to let him fire him, why did it take 12 weeks to even try a different playcaller? That could have been done months ago at a bare minimum even without firing him.
Forget it. It’s obvious that you just started watching this team and have no idea how Mara operates. Keep telling yourself that Judge has more influence than the owner if it’ll make you feel better,
You act like Judge has as much say as Andy Reid or Mike Tomlin. You may WANT Judge to be the one and only decision maker. But that’s a fantasy. Nothing more at this point. Mara wasn’t letting a first year HC tell him to fire his friend who was also in his first season on the job. No matter how much you seem to want to believe it’s the case.
its a bad reflection on Judge. Period. I'm not speculating on how much Mara is or isn't involved. It can be as much as you imagine or less. Doesn't matter relative to my opinion.
My opinion is that it's a terrible reflection on Judge that he allowed someone he didn't believe in 12 games of putrid offense calling the plays. You want to believe I suppose that 1 monday night in Tampa was the straw that broke Mara's back that's fine. I think there were things he could have done earlier if he really believed Garrett was sabotaging the team's success.
are you saying there are going to be negative economic ramifications in the form of tickets/merch due to firing garrett?
Easily. No 10 year head coach is going to take an OC position for a few hundred thousand. If you don’t think that millions of dollars matter to ownership than I think you’re wrong. It’s not monopoly money we’re talking about.
It may be true, but we wouldn't trust this guy if he said Michael Strahan was a HoF'er...
The problem is the Giants seem to get into these situations pretty regularly.
I long for the day the Giants have an ace SVP/GM and a head coach who is unequivocally in charge of game day.
They all seem so completely and utterly lost with no real direction set in place.
Going against the wishes of the owner also moves Judge closer to the firing squad too.
But, I'd have done it too, this offense was putrid, and it shouldn't with these players. The move had to be done, sputtering our way to a 5-win season only to fire Garret at the end would just be delaying the inevitable.
Now we move the timetable on both Judge and Jones up, and I'm all for that.
JJ and JG were not a great match
MC obviously came with a JG signoff or even push.
Judge probably wanted JG gone but Mara's and by extension DG did not.
JG's play calling, player usage could very well have been an issue and still not necessarily meant JJ wanted a highly risky offensive game plan.
Go back a few weeks and kG screaming at JG and DJ, might be the same way JJ felt too.
Going against the wishes of the owner also moves Judge closer to the firing squad too.
But, I'd have done it too, this offense was putrid, and it shouldn't with these players. The move had to be done, sputtering our way to a 5-win season only to fire Garret at the end would just be delaying the inevitable.
Now we move the timetable on both Judge and Jones up, and I'm all for that.
Judge is not the issue. Mara has been very involved in football decisions for a very long time now. I think it probably has slowly increase around 2009. That is why I don't put the mess all on DG as well. It is "collaborative". He does not shy away from saying it so why think he is not following it. Don't you think John and Chris have very deep conversations outside the building?
Isn't this more or less everyday life?
Judge wants to play a field position game every week. For some reason he has not realized our special teams (Outside of Gano) are atrocious.
It is sheer absurdity to believe Judge wanted this offense to be more aggressive all along. I think now you will see the play calling more aggressive because Judge knows this isn’t working and there is now no scapegoat for him to blame it on.
Garrett's play calling was horrific
Running of 1st and 2nd downs with a RB that cannot do more than 1-2 yds per carry
Allowing the opponents to load up the box most of the time
It was very very painful to watch; I hope Freddy has some aces in his play calling today
If I see anymore Barkley runs on most 1st and 2nd downs I will pull my hair out
Also, more of the same is a condemnation of the rest of the staff.
Giddy up!
Rah Rah Joe has been screaming to throw the ball to Golladay but that dastardly Jason Garrett had Daniel Jones tied to the train tracks. Boy, that Jason Garrett was a bad dude! Ruined this entire franchise. All by himself.
Give me a break. Joe Judge is in so far over his head. I’m still waiting for someone to tell what this guy does well beside spewing coaching cliches at the pressers. To me, this isn’t any more complicated than a lousy coach, a lousy GM and a lousy QB. The only thing the Giants can do is reset the GM with no strings attached. But if people think this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired then I think they’re going to be disappointed.
Rah Rah Joe has been screaming to throw the ball to Golladay but that dastardly Jason Garrett had Daniel Jones tied to the train tracks. Boy, that Jason Garrett was a bad dude! Ruined this entire franchise. All by himself.
Give me a break. Joe Judge is in so far over his head. I’m still waiting for someone to tell what this guy does well beside spewing coaching cliches at the pressers. To me, this isn’t any more complicated than a lousy coach, a lousy GM and a lousy QB. The only thing the Giants can do is reset the GM with no strings attached. But if people think this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired then I think they’re going to be disappointed.
Lousy coach, lousy GM, lousy QB. Kyle be the headline for sure. There made other lousy things but those three together cannot be overcome.
Rah Rah Joe has been screaming to throw the ball to Golladay but that dastardly Jason Garrett had Daniel Jones tied to the train tracks. Boy, that Jason Garrett was a bad dude! Ruined this entire franchise. All by himself.
Give me a break. Joe Judge is in so far over his head. I’m still waiting for someone to tell what this guy does well beside spewing coaching cliches at the pressers. To me, this isn’t any more complicated than a lousy coach, a lousy GM and a lousy QB. The only thing the Giants can do is reset the GM with no strings attached. But if people think this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired then I think they’re going to be disappointed.
Is there even one person on the planet that thinks “this ten year shit show is turning into Solid Gold just because Jason Garrett was fired”? Or are you just making shit up? I haven’t seen one person say that. It’s literally impossible to turn over an entire offensive system at this point.
It’s ok to acknowledge that more changes will have to be made while also acknowledging that Jason Garrett and his antiquated system were a big part of the problem. Certainly not the only problem and nobody is saying he was. But that won’t stop you from throwing your hissy fit if things don’t get instantly better, so what’s the point.
Bruh, try the pot with the orange handle.
No matter how brilliant the coach there comes a point where they only can get so much production.
You guys are ALL idiots. The LAST thing any organization can show is instability. Mara has somewhat tied his own hands by changing coaches and a GM within the last 5 years. He has a "Get out of jail free card" with DG because his contract is up and he will be "encouraged" to retire. But changing the coach who isn't even through year 2 yet is a BAD BAD idea. No one wants to come to work for you if you are so unstable they can kick you out the door at the drop of a hat. Think about that for a minute.
Re: Judge is conservative and he does not want to open the offense up more?
Yep, he is conservative to a certain extent. However, do you truly believe that the Giants would sign Golladay and draft Toney if Judge wanted to sit on the ball? You could throw Rudolph in there too, but he is more of a 3rd down and 4 yd to go TE or a red zone TE - and yet how many times has he been used that way? How many times have the Giants tried to get the ball to Golladay in the red zone?
Was he on a short list...sure but no way....Judge didn't have full control of his staff.