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Barkley

Bizfoodie : 11/28/2021 4:52 pm
Love the guy but using and getting him touches I think is holding the offense back. Oline isn’t good we know that but Barkley doesn’t consistently get the yards that are there and is below average picking up a blitz. I would start booker and use penny more . Also I would look at getting a rb In free agency or draft a back late. I don’t think the oline is as bad run blocking as ppl make it out to be. A solid one cut take what’s there running back who could pickup a blitz and run hard would go a long way. Those 1 yard or 0 yard gains we have trying to handoff to Barkley are killing the offense imo.
Agreed  
BigBlueJ : 11/28/2021 4:53 pm : link
Between him and the other overrated first round talent. This is why we score only 13 points.
A. He gets the big bucks.  
Joe Beckwith : 11/28/2021 4:55 pm : link
B. He is playing himself right into NOT getting a second contract here.
Not all of it is his fault  
BestFeature : 11/28/2021 4:55 pm : link
But is he the worst pick in Giants history?
What did he have,  
j_rud : 11/28/2021 4:55 pm : link
3 yards on 10 carries outside of the one he broke? It's time to move on.
Don't mean to squat a deuce on the win  
GruningsOnTheHill : 11/28/2021 4:56 pm : link
but take away SB's 31-yd run and he is at 1 yard per carry.

Weird game; just glad they won.
RE: Not all of it is his fault  
Beef Wellington : 11/28/2021 4:56 pm : link
In comment 15470718 BestFeature said:
Quote:
But is he the worst pick in Giants history?


Rocky Thompson was worse if you can imagine.
Barkley  
uther99 : 11/28/2021 4:57 pm : link
was a bad pick. I'm not sure what he does well.
Barkley was a mistake  
AnnapolisMike : 11/28/2021 4:57 pm : link
That does not mean he can’t be part of the future. No one at this point is breaking open a piggybank for him. He could be a productive part of any team if he can stay healthy.
RE: Barkley  
j_rud : 11/28/2021 5:00 pm : link
In comment 15470725 uther99 said:
Quote:
was a bad pick. I'm not sure what he does well.


I think he was a bad pick for this team and he was drafted into a bad situation. Pitiful blocking, inept coordinators, poor QB play. Add in a few injuries and he has become a reclamation project for another team. The sooner the better.
RE: Not all of it is his fault  
Bizfoodie : 11/28/2021 5:00 pm : link
In comment 15470718 BestFeature said:
Quote:
But is he the worst pick in Giants history?



Like the player but not necessarily where we took him. Me personally I wouldn’t even take Barry Sanders at 2 with our oline. A good oline would make an OK back look good. I have no doubts Bradshaw would do better behind this line Barkley dances too much.
He needs to be traded  
cosmicj : 11/28/2021 5:01 pm : link
Both for his own sake and the Giants’. I think we may be able to get a 2nd for him.
Barkley, touched by the hand of God  
Gman11 : 11/28/2021 5:02 pm : link
and he falls for no gain.
He definitely  
crick n NC : 11/28/2021 5:02 pm : link
does not look like the same as 2018 when he was one of the most explosive players in the game. He also is taking too much heat, as the run game is not good no matter who is in there right now. The blocking is atrocious.
Did you watch Rocky- I did  
Batenhorst7 : 11/28/2021 5:02 pm : link
He was not this bad

He was an excellent kick returner

Rocky was not a football player....he was a world class sprinter

ran the hundred meters in 10.1 seconds
Do you think the Generational talent could approach 10 seconds?

played in 29 NY Giants games

scored 3 TDs and averaged 3.2 YPC, which is about 2.2 more yds per carry than the Generational talent usually gets

i think this is a test for Judge  
markky : 11/28/2021 5:03 pm : link
if Judge doesn't start Booker then Judge is not a HC. a real HC puts the best (meaning most productive) players on the field regardless of draft position, contract or seniority.
RE: Barkley  
Bizfoodie : 11/28/2021 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15470725 uther99 said:
Quote:
was a bad pick. I'm not sure what he does well.


Before injury a home run hitter but doesn’t consistently get the yards on the field. You can’t win like that IMO. Zeke Elliot while a cowboy (hate them lol) runs hard and doesn’t dance...maybe not as dynamic as Barkley before injury but he consistently falls forward and gets the yardage that’s there and can pick up a blitz. I was happy when we drafted Barkley but feared he would be a waste here.
He  
AcidTest : 11/28/2021 5:07 pm : link
probably still isn't 100% from his ACL tear last season. And like Jones, some of his poor performance is because the OL can't block. But Booker has had more success with the same OL, and should play more, especially since we are still technically in the playoff hunt.

I'd use Barkley more as a receiver at this point, either on screens or in the slot. He can do more damage if he's already in space when he catches the ball.
Looks like he is running in quicksand compared to  
Jimmy Googs : 11/28/2021 5:07 pm : link
other good NFL backs...
They put him in space quite a bit today  
cosmicj : 11/28/2021 5:08 pm : link
He caught 4 passes for a grand total of 13 yards.

He simply isn’t an above avg player.
RE: RE: Barkley  
uther99 : 11/28/2021 5:10 pm : link
In comment 15470754 Bizfoodie said:
Quote:
In comment 15470725 uther99 said:


Quote:


was a bad pick. I'm not sure what he does well.



Before injury a home run hitter but doesn’t consistently get the yards on the field. You can’t win like that IMO. Zeke Elliot while a cowboy (hate them lol) runs hard and doesn’t dance...maybe not as dynamic as Barkley before injury but he consistently falls forward and gets the yardage that’s there and can pick up a blitz. I was happy when we drafted Barkley but feared he would be a waste here.


Someone posted here metrics about how 3 to 4 yard gains was better than the occasional long run. The occasional long run is no way to sustain drives
I agree with op  
Blueblue : 11/28/2021 5:10 pm : link
I was one of the guys on board with picking Sb. Booker is the better starter and we need to move on from Barkley.
.  
Danny Kanell : 11/28/2021 5:11 pm : link
He should be a passing down option only at this point.
In retrospect,  
BigBlueinDE : 11/28/2021 5:14 pm : link
he shouldn't have been drafted at 2 and it was also a mistake to pick up his 5th year option. That said, he's probably not coming back after next year and he may latch on somewhere else or he may not. Regardless, I doubt he'll be in the NFL much longer after next year.
It sure looks like Barkley's career is over  
Hammer : 11/28/2021 5:14 pm : link
He has no push, he runs soft, he has no moves, is not explosive and has no vision.

Someone here said that we could get a 2nd round pick for him.

I don't think that you can get a seventh round pick.

Who would want to him? He's terrible.
I don't love Barkley.  
TC : 11/28/2021 5:14 pm : link
Too soft, too many holes in his game and looks as if he's been playing even more scared since his injuries of the last couple of seasons. When I see guys like Jonathan Taylor or Fournette, wow! There're dozens of RB's who can replace Barkley, equal or exceed his production, and likely manage to stay of the field to boot.
RE: RE: RE: Barkley  
Bizfoodie : 11/28/2021 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15470774 uther99 said:
Quote:
In comment 15470754 Bizfoodie said:


Quote:


In comment 15470725 uther99 said:


Quote:


was a bad pick. I'm not sure what he does well.



Before injury a home run hitter but doesn’t consistently get the yards on the field. You can’t win like that IMO. Zeke Elliot while a cowboy (hate them lol) runs hard and doesn’t dance...maybe not as dynamic as Barkley before injury but he consistently falls forward and gets the yardage that’s there and can pick up a blitz. I was happy when we drafted Barkley but feared he would be a waste here.



Someone posted here metrics about how 3 to 4 yard gains was better than the occasional long run. The occasional long run is no way to sustain drives



I agree give me a consistent 2-5 yards a carry vs 0-1 yards with an occasional 20 yard run. He’s not even getting the long runs which was his strength previously but if he can’t get that why is he being used? If I could trade him for a 4th I would...I think he can be successful in the nfl but just not with the giants currently.
Outside of his 32 yard run he had 12 carries for 8 yards  
Giantfan21 : 11/28/2021 5:15 pm : link
12 carries for 8 yards . You cannot win games with a RB who kills drives with this type of production .

Giants would be better off giving an undrafted Rb a shot and getting better production most likely .

Barkley has been a bust and the best thing they can do is trade him to another team in the offseason who thinks they can rehabilitate him
RE: Not all of it is his fault  
BigBlueinDE : 11/28/2021 5:16 pm : link
In comment 15470718 BestFeature said:
Quote:
But is he the worst pick in Giants history?


Right up there, yes. Barkley, Derek Brown, Dave Brown and Thomas Lewis come to mind as the four worst picks I can think off of the top of my head.
_________  
I am Ninja : 11/28/2021 5:17 pm : link
he is in slow mo and runs soft. its not his fault, but its not ours either. we wont notice that hes gone.
RE: I don't love Barkley.  
BigBlueinDE : 11/28/2021 5:17 pm : link
In comment 15470791 TC said:
Quote:
Too soft, too many holes in his game and looks as if he's been playing even more scared since his injuries of the last couple of seasons. When I see guys like Jonathan Taylor or Fournette, wow! There're dozens of RB's who can replace Barkley, equal or exceed his production, and likely manage to stay of the field to boot.


My thoughts as well. I'd rather have Booker get more minutes.
If his name wasn’t Saquon Barkley and you watched him run  
Jimmy Googs : 11/28/2021 5:18 pm : link
like this each week most of this board would say he needs to be cut.



Giants pre season at Schaefer stadium  
thrunthrublue : 11/28/2021 5:19 pm : link
I was there, saw rocky Thompson’s first carry, close to 100 yard opening kickoff return……he was so fast he looked blurry!
RE: RE: Not all of it is his fault  
Ivan15 : 11/28/2021 5:20 pm : link
In comment 15470723 Beef Wellington said:
Quote:
In comment 15470718 BestFeature said:


Quote:


But is he the worst pick in Giants history?



Rocky Thompson was worse if you can imagine.


Disagree. Based on his performance after his first season, Barkley is worse than Rocky Thompson. Barkley should return kicks like Thompson. Maybe he could upgrade is status.
RE: He  
Bizfoodie : 11/28/2021 5:20 pm : link
In comment 15470762 AcidTest said:
Quote:
probably still isn't 100% from his ACL tear last season. And like Jones, some of his poor performance is because the OL can't block. But Booker has had more success with the same OL, and should play more, especially since we are still technically in the playoff hunt.

I'd use Barkley more as a receiver at this point, either on screens or in the slot. He can do more damage if he's already in space when he catches the ball.


Maybe a 3rd down back until he gains his legs or we trade him elsewhere. Can’t waste time hoping he returns to a form that wasn’t great to begin with...which is a home run hitting exciting back who can’t consistently take the yards In front of him. I’m tired of seeing 3 -4 yards ahead of him and he jump cuts or hesitates then gains 1 yard or just gets back to the line of scrimmage.
RE: RE: Not all of it is his fault  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 11/28/2021 5:28 pm : link
In comment 15470797 BigBlueinDE said:
Quote:
In comment 15470718 BestFeature said:


Quote:


But is he the worst pick in Giants history?



Right up there, yes. Barkley, Derek Brown, Dave Brown and Thomas Lewis come to mind as the four worst picks I can think off of the top of my head.


How about Joe Don Looney?
Can anyone recall the last time Barkley broke a tackle  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 11/28/2021 5:29 pm : link
I know I can't!
It's not his ACL ...  
Manny in CA : 11/28/2021 5:35 pm : link

It's his ankle, which is a killer because he's a cut-back runner. When he got hurt, I thought he was done for the year, the way he ankle ballooned. It looked like he had a softball was stuffed under the skin.

Without that ankle, he'd be the best player on the field.
All World Runnung Back Kyle Rote was a bonus pick  
DSPCSP : 11/28/2021 5:37 pm : link
way back when the league had that. He was expected to be All World just as Barkley was(by Gettleman, anyway) Then he had a really serious knee injury. Kyle was no longer a running back. The Giants made a great decision. They made him a flanker and his career was reborn. Maybe this can be done with Barkley.
He just better not get a second from  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/28/2021 5:37 pm : link
Us.
RE: Did you watch Rocky- I did  
US1 Giants : 11/28/2021 5:47 pm : link
In comment 15470747 Batenhorst7 said:
Quote:
He was not this bad

He was an excellent kick returner

Rocky was not a football player....he was a world class sprinter

ran the hundred meters in 10.1 seconds
Do you think the Generational talent could approach 10 seconds?

played in 29 NY Giants games

scored 3 TDs and averaged 3.2 YPC, which is about 2.2 more yds per carry than the Generational talent usually gets


Rocky Thompson was picked 18th. Barkley was draft 2nd.
Yes, the line sucks  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/28/2021 5:56 pm : link
...but I can guarantee you that when a running back stops moving in the backfield he will not gain any yards.
RE: RE: RE: Not all of it is his fault  
Dennis : 11/28/2021 6:31 pm : link
In comment 15470833 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
In comment 15470797 BigBlueinDE said:


Quote:


In comment 15470718 BestFeature said:


Quote:


But is he the worst pick in Giants history?



Right up there, yes. Barkley, Derek Brown, Dave Brown and Thomas Lewis come to mind as the four worst picks I can think off of the top of my head.



How about Joe Don Looney?


+1. Joe Don Looney was worse. Rocky Thompson was worse, he didn't have a season where he gained 1000+ yds. Others were worse.
S.B. was not a good pick, and at this point is not a very productive football player, (and may never be a productive footbal player), but he's not the worst pick.
RE: Barkley, touched by the hand of God  
The Jake : 11/28/2021 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15470742 Gman11 said:
Quote:
and he falls for no gain.


Shit, maybe that explains the low YPC - God is knocking him down when he touches the ball.
RE: It's not his ACL ...  
The Jake : 11/28/2021 7:23 pm : link
In comment 15470853 Manny in CA said:
Quote:
Without that ankle, he'd be the best player on the field.


This can’t be a real take, can it? You must be a Penn State fan.
He might be better  
chitt17 : 11/28/2021 7:31 pm : link
Than "no gain Dayne" was.

They are very similar behind the line.
RE: RE: RE: Barkley  
.McL. : 11/28/2021 8:19 pm : link
In comment 15470774 uther99 said:
Quote:
In comment 15470754 Bizfoodie said:


Quote:


In comment 15470725 uther99 said:


Quote:


was a bad pick. I'm not sure what he does well.



Before injury a home run hitter but doesn’t consistently get the yards on the field. You can’t win like that IMO. Zeke Elliot while a cowboy (hate them lol) runs hard and doesn’t dance...maybe not as dynamic as Barkley before injury but he consistently falls forward and gets the yardage that’s there and can pick up a blitz. I was happy when we drafted Barkley but feared he would be a waste here.



Someone posted here metrics about how 3 to 4 yard gains was better than the occasional long run. The occasional long run is no way to sustain drives

Yeah, that was me...
Bottom line is that it is more important to have "successful" running plays than long one. Successful running plays are defined as either getting a 1st down or a TD, 1st down getting at least 40% of the yards required for a 1st down, 2nd down getting at least 50% of the yards required for a first down.
Teams and players who can do that consistently have a significantly higher probability of winning. There is no correlation to winning based on total yards or yards per carry. Consistent success is the key to running and winning. And that is the antithesis of Barkley's game.
That is why I say that Barkley's rookie season is a myth. He gained something like 80% of his yards on less than 10% of his plays. The vast majority of his touches were unsuccessful, even in the passing game. Gaudy numbers? Yes! Winning football, absolutely not.
The Year Five option is a sunk cost, just like the 2018 draft pick.  
Big Blue Blogger : 11/28/2021 8:26 pm : link
The Giants are on the hook for $7MM in 2022. Their best bet at this point is to hope Saquon plays better.
RE: The Year Five option is a sunk cost, just like the 2018 draft pick.  
christian : 11/28/2021 8:45 pm : link
In comment 15471230 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
The Giants are on the hook for $7MM in 2022. Their best bet at this point is to hope Saquon plays better.


Exactly. What’s done is done.

It’s in the Giants best interest for Barkley to get back to top form. Build up his value for the Giants or a trade partner.
RE: RE: The Year Five option is a sunk cost, just like the 2018 draft pick.  
.McL. : 11/28/2021 9:27 pm : link
In comment 15471263 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15471230 Big Blue Blogger said:


Quote:


The Giants are on the hook for $7MM in 2022. Their best bet at this point is to hope Saquon plays better.



Exactly. What’s done is done.

It’s in the Giants best interest for Barkley to get back to top form. Build up his value for the Giants or a trade partner.

The problem is that it won't be until next year if at all that he returns to physical form. At that point he is in his final year. If you trade him at the deadline, the buyer only gets half a year before he hits FA... His value is very low. Unless there is an idiot GM willing to do a LW type of deal...
RE: RE: RE: The Year Five option is a sunk cost, just like the 2018 draft pick.  
Producer : 11/28/2021 9:29 pm : link
In comment 15471334 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 15471263 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 15471230 Big Blue Blogger said:


Quote:


The Giants are on the hook for $7MM in 2022. Their best bet at this point is to hope Saquon plays better.



Exactly. What’s done is done.

It’s in the Giants best interest for Barkley to get back to top form. Build up his value for the Giants or a trade partner.


The problem is that it won't be until next year if at all that he returns to physical form. At that point he is in his final year. If you trade him at the deadline, the buyer only gets half a year before he hits FA... His value is very low. Unless there is an idiot GM willing to do a LW type of deal...


Well the obvious thing to do is to prove he is good and sound between now and the end of the season and deal him in the off season. He looked good on that long run today. I think he will get better and better and a few teams will be interested.
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