He is, but let’s dummy this down? Why is he having a better year? Isn’t it because he has an offensive line that allows him to utilize his limited (for a QB) but immense talent (in running).
How far can you take that argument? So pound for pound Jones is the better QB because he is graded on a curve for his oline?
So why not saying he is better than other QBs as well that are top QBs in the league; pound for pound?
1. Hurts isn't that great and has serious accuracy issues.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
Why is it great value to draft a non franchise QB in second round? If you move on from him this off season now you have a second rounder not contributing? Anyway, the point of drafting a QB is to have them be a franchise QB. And if they drafted Hurts in the first round it wouldn’t have been great value? So what do you call their first round pick Reagor. Either the guy fits your football puzzle or he doesn’t. A franchise QB is a great value anywhere from first to last! If you don’t hit a franchise QB what’s the point of the pick—to lose to the 3-7 Giants 13-7?
The point is you had a back up qb that showed he is pretty solid and they got to move on from Wentz.
You really don't see the point of getting comparable QB talent in the 2nd round that we picked at #6 ?
1. Hurts isn't that great and has serious accuracy issues.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
Why is it great value to draft a non franchise QB in second round? If you move on from him this off season now you have a second rounder not contributing? Anyway, the point of drafting a QB is to have them be a franchise QB. And if they drafted Hurts in the first round it wouldn’t have been great value? So what do you call their first round pick Reagor. Either the guy fits your football puzzle or he doesn’t. A franchise QB is a great value anywhere from first to last! If you don’t hit a franchise QB what’s the point of the pick—to lose to the 3-7 Giants 13-7?
The point is you had a back up qb that showed he is pretty solid and they got to move on from Wentz.
You really don't see the point of getting comparable QB talent in the 2nd round that we picked at #6 ?
Not really, no. Especially if the point is both aren’t good enough. People act like drafting a QB at 6 is a guarantee. The whole point of drafting a b is that it is a lottery ticket to get a franchise QB. It has a better chance of success at 6 than 53, but the end goal is the same. The point about Reagor is that draft picks by numbers are labels. He was first and Hurts was second. So if you reversed their picks would it make a difference in how you evaluate their contribution ?
1. Hurts isn't that great and has serious accuracy issues.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
Why is it great value to draft a non franchise QB in second round? If you move on from him this off season now you have a second rounder not contributing? Anyway, the point of drafting a QB is to have them be a franchise QB. And if they drafted Hurts in the first round it wouldn’t have been great value? So what do you call their first round pick Reagor. Either the guy fits your football puzzle or he doesn’t. A franchise QB is a great value anywhere from first to last! If you don’t hit a franchise QB what’s the point of the pick—to lose to the 3-7 Giants 13-7?
The point is you had a back up qb that showed he is pretty solid and they got to move on from Wentz.
You really don't see the point of getting comparable QB talent in the 2nd round that we picked at #6 ?
And Washington has a better QB than either team and they got him off the scrap heap.
1. Hurts isn't that great and has serious accuracy issues.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
They got better value, when the jury is out on both of them??
It is quite amusing that posters are finding solace in our lottery pick playing less worse than the Eagles project QB today.
Keep clinging to your failed take...Hurts is not an NFL QB and the Eagles will be moving on by season's end.
Let me dummy this down one last time - I DON'T like Hurts as a QB. I'm just able to set aside emotion, analyze measurables, and conclude that Hurts is having a better year than Jones.
But the fact is, he is not having a better year. It is only your opinion...not fact, and certainly "not debateable."
1. Hurts isn't that great and has serious accuracy issues.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
Why is it great value to draft a non franchise QB in second round? If you move on from him this off season now you have a second rounder not contributing? Anyway, the point of drafting a QB is to have them be a franchise QB. And if they drafted Hurts in the first round it wouldn’t have been great value? So what do you call their first round pick Reagor. Either the guy fits your football puzzle or he doesn’t. A franchise QB is a great value anywhere from first to last! If you don’t hit a franchise QB what’s the point of the pick—to lose to the 3-7 Giants 13-7?
There's a pretty big element that you're missing:
Drafting Hurts allowed them to get out from under the Wentz contract, which also provided them with the extra ammo to trade down in the 1st round to pick up the Dolphins' 2022 1st round pick while still being able to use one of the picks acquired in the Wentz trade to leapfrog the Giants for Devonta Smith (without having to use any of their original draft picks to do so). And the other pick they got for Wentz is very close to vesting as a 1st rounder.
He is, but let’s dummy this down? Why is he having a better year? Isn’t it because he has an offensive line that allows him to utilize his limited (for a QB) but immense talent (in running).
How far can you take that argument? So pound for pound Jones is the better QB because he is graded on a curve for his oline?
So why not saying he is better than other QBs as well that are top QBs in the league; pound for pound?
Yes, he should be graded on a curve. Because of the OL, WR, RB, TE’s on this roster, which are all shit (there is some talent, but they are often hurt ).
Jones may or may not be the answer. Same for hurts. But what we do know for now - hurts has by far better talent around him.
But the asshole posters who shit on Jones and prop up other QB’s who have better talent are well….assholes…
Hurts was drafted at #53, late in the second round. So the Eagles have less exposure than our mediocre QB. He's essentially a project the Eagles are hoping to hit on. Jones was a major investment at #6 and he's failed to live up to his billing.
Now, Hurts played poorly today. But he's been better than Jones YTD. That's without dispute.
I feel like you bring up draft position but have you not followed the NFL draft much? QBs are a highly volatile position regardless of where they're taken. Taking a QB #6 and him busting (not saying Jones has but for the sake of argument let's say he has), is not some unheard of thing. Being #6 overall means very little honestly. It's REALLY hard to find a great or even good QB. I'm way more annoyed about the Barkley pick.
Yes, he should be graded on a curve. Because of the OL, WR, RB, TE’s on this roster, which are all shit (there is some talent, but they are often hurt ).
Jones may or may not be the answer. Same for hurts. But what we do know for now - hurts has by far better talent around him.
But the asshole posters who shit on Jones and prop up other QB’s who have better talent are well….assholes…
You have an emotional connection to Jones so that makes his piss poor play excusable and gets graded on a curve? Why not say he is better than Brady then? He is playing on a better team?
Fact is Hurts is more promising (he has not even had a full season of starts under his belt) ; is a better runner -- and not just because of his oline--but because he is a more physical player ; and just as limited a passer as Jones.
Jones in his 3rd year still can't throw a back shoulder to Golladay. Glennon can do that. He can also look one way and throw another. Jones is ending year 3 and cannot do any of these things including locking into one reads. And he has Golladaya too and Toney so lets not pretend he is playing for the Lions. You cannot even say he is a bust. he never should have been drafted that high. the fact Hurts is a late 2nd pick and is bridge between getting out of Wentz contract and is playing better is pretty much game set match.
Yes, he should be graded on a curve. Because of the OL, WR, RB, TE’s on this roster, which are all shit (there is some talent, but they are often hurt ).
Jones may or may not be the answer. Same for hurts. But what we do know for now - hurts has by far better talent around him.
But the asshole posters who shit on Jones and prop up other QB’s who have better talent are well….assholes…
You have an emotional connection to Jones so that makes his piss poor play excusable and gets graded on a curve? Why not say he is better than Brady then? He is playing on a better team?
Fact is Hurts is more promising (he has not even had a full season of starts under his belt) ; is a better runner -- and not just because of his oline--but because he is a more physical player ; and just as limited a passer as Jones.
Jones in his 3rd year still can't throw a back shoulder to Golladay. Glennon can do that. He can also look one way and throw another. Jones is ending year 3 and cannot do any of these things including locking into one reads. And he has Golladaya too and Toney so lets not pretend he is playing for the Lions. You cannot even say he is a bust. he never should have been drafted that high. the fact Hurts is a late 2nd pick and is bridge between getting out of Wentz contract and is playing better is pretty much game set match.
I have no emotional connection to Jones - in fact, he’s probably not the solution - but i can recognize the guy got dealt a shitty hand and therefore i haven’t completely judged him. Until he gets a fair shake.
This would be a childish and foolish way to run a franchise. The Giants don't exist for Jones or any other player to exhaust every possible opportunity to prove they belong. The burden of proof (at least in a smart organization) lies with the player.
Every NFL roster is full of players who've received fewer opportunities than Jones, and for whom any number of excuses could be made as to why that has happened.
It's on Jones to kick the door down and make the Giants have to start him. It's not on them to make up reasons to start him.
Jones has started 37 games over which he has posted brutal stats and won 32% of his starts. 37 games is a big sample size.
The only case for him being something other than a poor starting quarterback is rooted in excuses and conjecture. This is the fucking NFL, not a kids rec league. No NFL team has time or means to build a perfect roster to carry a passenger quarterback - that's not a viable strategy.
"Fair shake". You've got to be kidding me. You think Bill Belichick is concerned with fair shakes? You think we're going to compete against the league's elite based on a team built on fair shakes? What kind of bullshit is that?
I’m fine with Jones entering 2022 as the presumptive starter.
His salary is guaranteed, the draft pick is a sunk cost, and there’s no obvious upgrade available at a price the Giants can afford. As long as they decline his Year Five option, I think allowing Year Four to play out may be the best decision the team can make in their current circumstances.
The 2022 Giants will not be a well-constructed team. Their salary structure will be top-heavy, and depth will likely remain a problem. With health, a good draft and a few breaks, though, they could vie for a playoff berth. Any team can. Daniel Jones probably won’t prevent them from clearing that low bar. (We’re talking about a conference that sent Foles, Goff and Jimmy G. to the Super Bowl in consecutive years, over HoF QBs like Rodgers, and Brees, and big names like Wilson, Ryan, Manning, Stafford, Newton, and Prescott.)
More likely, the 2022 Giants will suffer their share - or more - of injuries, drop out of serious contention again by late October, and hold a fire sale of marketable assets at the deadline to clear cap space and accumulate draft picks. That’s the outlook with or without DJ at QB. So I don’t see much reason to move on from him. 2023 is a completely different story.
This would be a childish and foolish way to run a franchise. The Giants don't exist for Jones or any other player to exhaust every possible opportunity to prove they belong. The burden of proof (at least in a smart organization) lies with the player.
Every NFL roster is full of players who've received fewer opportunities than Jones, and for whom any number of excuses could be made as to why that has happened.
It's on Jones to kick the door down and make the Giants have to start him. It's not on them to make up reasons to start him.
Jones has started 37 games over which he has posted brutal stats and won 32% of his starts. 37 games is a big sample size.
The only case for him being something other than a poor starting quarterback is rooted in excuses and conjecture. This is the fucking NFL, not a kids rec league. No NFL team has time or means to build a perfect roster to carry a passenger quarterback - that's not a viable strategy.
"Fair shake". You've got to be kidding me. You think Bill Belichick is concerned with fair shakes? You think we're going to compete against the league's elite based on a team built on fair shakes? What kind of bullshit is that?
I have defended Jones constantly, but I am starting to come around to your viewpoint if I am being honest. I think Jones has shown flashes of what he can be, but the inconsistency is too high. This thread was really supposed to be a joke (context people have been starting threads with your name left and right) because you always harp on Hurts’s value, but Reagor the first round draft capital of Hurt’s year is a bust.
Hurts still has time obviously to improve his throwing. I don’t think he will do it, but the man seems to be like Jones in that he is a hard working, tough player.
The Eagles analytics department must have said Reagor
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
I agree with this to a point. I was at the game yesterday and with Hanukkah last night I have not watched the replay yet, but there was a throw to Golladay right after the Eagles scored their TD where Golladay was wide open about ten yards away. I don't know if Golladay was being lazy or not, but it appeared to me that he missed him so bad that Golladay did not even put his hands out. Now, I have not seen that replay, but that has to be a connection, it would have went to midfield at least if he hits it. A top 10 QB hits that 9.999 out of 10 ten times. No pressure, wide open guy in a soft part of the zone, ready split it on the YAC. Has to make that connection.
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
BUllshit! First Russ played behind a bad oline and played quite well earlier in his career. So did Andrew Luck.
Aaron Rodgers was not just misisng 3 WR but oline players as well.
We're going to face the reality that...
Jones is nothing special
Jones is Gettle's guy and gettle has to go so Jones has to go.
This isn't Little league where everyone is guaranteed playing time which you paid for.
Did Glennon get a fair shake? He is like what 6 years older than Jones and has played fewer games on teams like Jaguars half way through a 1 win season when they were already fixated on lawrence?
I have seen Glennon throw back shoulder. I have seen him throw one way after looking elsewhere.
Those throws to Golladay in the end zone were a joke. i have seen Herbert throw backshoulders in that situation in his first ever NFL game. I have seen Eli audible and throw TDs in hisfirst ever NFL game We are in week 3 with Jones and he can't throw people open and still runs Barkley in to a wall of defenders after they snill out the play like WFT game.
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
I think that's overstated. First, they're not the worst OL in the NFL. 17 NFL teams have given up more sacks. Jones gets pressured a lot though. That's accurate. They're not a good run blocking unit either. That's accurate.
The Bears, Ravens, and Browns have each given up 35+ sacks. The giants, 22.
Second, it's not the worst injury situation in the NFL. This is just one example.
Titans have had 82 different players on their active roster this season.
The full-season record is 84.
Only 5 other teams in history have used 80+ players in a season. The combined record for those teams: 18-61-1
Titans are 8-2 despite all the injuries and new faces coming in.
Debaser: You must have watched a different Eli Manning.
The Giants' Eli Manning threw one TD pass in his first four starts. It was a quick 6-yarder to Jeremy Shockey, in the middle of the field. I wouldn't call it a back-shoulder throw, though Eli did throw it slightly behind Shockey, who held on despite a big hit in the back.
Although Eli threw some nice back-shoulder fades to Toomer and Burress, he didn't master that trick until later, with Hakeem Nicks.
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
I think that's overstated. First, they're not the worst OL in the NFL. 17 NFL teams have given up more sacks. Jones gets pressured a lot though. That's accurate. They're not a good run blocking unit either. That's accurate.
The Bears, Ravens, and Browns have each given up 35+ sacks. The giants, 22.
Second, it's not the worst injury situation in the NFL. This is just one example.
Titans have had 82 different players on their active roster this season.
The full-season record is 84.
Only 5 other teams in history have used 80+ players in a season. The combined record for those teams: 18-61-1
Titans are 8-2 despite all the injuries and new faces coming in.
This is kind of where I am at, there are contributing factors to the poor production, but you would expect more out of Jones if he was the guy. I held out hope until a few weeks ago, but the reality is that he doesn't elevate anyone and the glimpses of greatness are not often enough or consistent enough to believe he is franchise QB
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
TTH already touched on this, but just to go a step further:
There are a number of metrics that can be used to track OL play, particularly as it relates to the passing game. Here are a few that I'm looking at:
1) Sacks per game (since we're still in the middle of bye weeks, not every team has played the same amount of games, so per game average is more fair)
2) Sack percentage (this does not need to be altered since it is already adjusted for pass attempts)
AVERAGE POCKET TIME (in seconds)
1. Washington (2.5)
2. Eagles (2.4)
3. Seahawks (2.4)
.
.
.
13. Giants (2.2)
.
.
.
30. Texans (2.0)
31. Packers (2.0)
32. Steelers (1.9)
--------------------
If the Giants have the worst OL in football, and if DJ is being so hampered by their poor play, shouldn't the Giants be the worst in the league in at least one of these categories?
The number say that they're middle of the pack across the board when it comes to pass protection.
RE: Debaser: You must have watched a different Eli Manning.
The Giants' Eli Manning threw one TD pass in his first four starts. It was a quick 6-yarder to Jeremy Shockey, in the middle of the field. I wouldn't call it a back-shoulder throw, though Eli did throw it slightly behind Shockey, who held on despite a big hit in the back.
Although Eli threw some nice back-shoulder fades to Toomer and Burress, he didn't master that trick until later, with Hakeem Nicks.
I said Glennon throwing back shoulder throws. My early memories of Eli were throwing like 40 a yard bomb. Which pretty much continued throughout his career till they saddled him with a west coast offense coordinator and big suit coach.
Are we really comparing the 2? Jones at this point is a joke to me.
Are we forgetting that we just jettisoned the double agent spy sent by Jerry's World. We were supposed to see this Golladay TD connection. Bark "getting in open space". Instead what we saw in a totally inept and not good QB.
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
TTH already touched on this, but just to go a step further:
There are a number of metrics that can be used to track OL play, particularly as it relates to the passing game. Here are a few that I'm looking at:
1) Sacks per game (since we're still in the middle of bye weeks, not every team has played the same amount of games, so per game average is more fair)
2) Sack percentage (this does not need to be altered since it is already adjusted for pass attempts)
AVERAGE POCKET TIME (in seconds)
1. Washington (2.5)
2. Eagles (2.4)
3. Seahawks (2.4)
.
.
.
13. Giants (2.2)
.
.
.
30. Texans (2.0)
31. Packers (2.0)
32. Steelers (1.9)
--------------------
If the Giants have the worst OL in football, and if DJ is being so hampered by their poor play, shouldn't the Giants be the worst in the league in at least one of these categories?
The number say that they're middle of the pack across the board when it comes to pass protection.
A lot of this, you would concede right, is the Giants have been aggressive in gameplanning around this. How many 5-7 foot drops do you see Jones doing, or even stepping into the pocket. The Giants gameplan to get the ball out of his hands almost immediately.
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
TTH already touched on this, but just to go a step further:
There are a number of metrics that can be used to track OL play, particularly as it relates to the passing game. Here are a few that I'm looking at:
1) Sacks per game (since we're still in the middle of bye weeks, not every team has played the same amount of games, so per game average is more fair)
2) Sack percentage (this does not need to be altered since it is already adjusted for pass attempts)
AVERAGE POCKET TIME (in seconds)
1. Washington (2.5)
2. Eagles (2.4)
3. Seahawks (2.4)
.
.
.
13. Giants (2.2)
.
.
.
30. Texans (2.0)
31. Packers (2.0)
32. Steelers (1.9)
--------------------
If the Giants have the worst OL in football, and if DJ is being so hampered by their poor play, shouldn't the Giants be the worst in the league in at least one of these categories?
The number say that they're middle of the pack across the board when it comes to pass protection.
A lot of this, you would concede right, is the Giants have been aggressive in gameplanning around this. How many 5-7 foot drops do you see Jones doing, or even stepping into the pocket. The Giants gameplan to get the ball out of his hands almost immediately.
Jones did a lot of climbing the pocket yesterday. He had time. In yesterday's game, receivers just didn't make catches. At least they were in position to score TDs though.
Gameplanning around a weakness may be right, but every team does so. The Ravens lost their franchise LT early this year. They are gameplanning around it weekly.
Giants OL, though below average and needs to be a lot better in run play, is functional enough.
This same OL helped Booker rush for 99 on 21 carries against the Raiders.
He is, but let’s dummy this down? Why is he having a better year? Isn’t it because he has an offensive line that allows him to utilize his limited (for a QB) but immense talent (in running).
How far can you take that argument? So pound for pound Jones is the better QB because he is graded on a curve for his oline?
So why not saying he is better than other QBs as well that are top QBs in the league; pound for pound?
Quote:
1. Hurts isn't that great and has serious accuracy issues.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
Why is it great value to draft a non franchise QB in second round? If you move on from him this off season now you have a second rounder not contributing? Anyway, the point of drafting a QB is to have them be a franchise QB. And if they drafted Hurts in the first round it wouldn’t have been great value? So what do you call their first round pick Reagor. Either the guy fits your football puzzle or he doesn’t. A franchise QB is a great value anywhere from first to last! If you don’t hit a franchise QB what’s the point of the pick—to lose to the 3-7 Giants 13-7?
The point is you had a back up qb that showed he is pretty solid and they got to move on from Wentz.
You really don't see the point of getting comparable QB talent in the 2nd round that we picked at #6 ?
Quote:
In comment 15471377 The Jake said:
Quote:
1. Hurts isn't that great and has serious accuracy issues.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
Why is it great value to draft a non franchise QB in second round? If you move on from him this off season now you have a second rounder not contributing? Anyway, the point of drafting a QB is to have them be a franchise QB. And if they drafted Hurts in the first round it wouldn’t have been great value? So what do you call their first round pick Reagor. Either the guy fits your football puzzle or he doesn’t. A franchise QB is a great value anywhere from first to last! If you don’t hit a franchise QB what’s the point of the pick—to lose to the 3-7 Giants 13-7?
The point is you had a back up qb that showed he is pretty solid and they got to move on from Wentz.
You really don't see the point of getting comparable QB talent in the 2nd round that we picked at #6 ?
Not really, no. Especially if the point is both aren’t good enough. People act like drafting a QB at 6 is a guarantee. The whole point of drafting a b is that it is a lottery ticket to get a franchise QB. It has a better chance of success at 6 than 53, but the end goal is the same. The point about Reagor is that draft picks by numbers are labels. He was first and Hurts was second. So if you reversed their picks would it make a difference in how you evaluate their contribution ?
Quote:
In comment 15471377 The Jake said:
Quote:
1. Hurts isn't that great and has serious accuracy issues.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
Why is it great value to draft a non franchise QB in second round? If you move on from him this off season now you have a second rounder not contributing? Anyway, the point of drafting a QB is to have them be a franchise QB. And if they drafted Hurts in the first round it wouldn’t have been great value? So what do you call their first round pick Reagor. Either the guy fits your football puzzle or he doesn’t. A franchise QB is a great value anywhere from first to last! If you don’t hit a franchise QB what’s the point of the pick—to lose to the 3-7 Giants 13-7?
The point is you had a back up qb that showed he is pretty solid and they got to move on from Wentz.
You really don't see the point of getting comparable QB talent in the 2nd round that we picked at #6 ?
And Washington has a better QB than either team and they got him off the scrap heap.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
They got better value, when the jury is out on both of them??
Quote:
It is quite amusing that posters are finding solace in our lottery pick playing less worse than the Eagles project QB today.
Keep clinging to your failed take...Hurts is not an NFL QB and the Eagles will be moving on by season's end.
That would make them smarter than our braintrust who will keep their own mediocre QB for another year on scholarship.
Quote:
In comment 15471302 bw in dc said:
Quote:
It is quite amusing that posters are finding solace in our lottery pick playing less worse than the Eagles project QB today.
Keep clinging to your failed take...Hurts is not an NFL QB and the Eagles will be moving on by season's end.
Let me dummy this down one last time - I DON'T like Hurts as a QB. I'm just able to set aside emotion, analyze measurables, and conclude that Hurts is having a better year than Jones.
But the fact is, he is not having a better year. It is only your opinion...not fact, and certainly "not debateable."
Quote:
1. Hurts isn't that great and has serious accuracy issues.
2. Terms was 100% correct that the Eagles got better value for him than we did for Jones.
Both things are true. Rather than waiting for QB to be a desperate need requiring a high 1st round pick telegraphed to other teams, the Eagles were proactive, surprised everyone, and took a QB when they already had one.
He might not turn out to be a true franchise QB (or he still might), but that is a significantly better expenditure of draft capital.
Why is it great value to draft a non franchise QB in second round? If you move on from him this off season now you have a second rounder not contributing? Anyway, the point of drafting a QB is to have them be a franchise QB. And if they drafted Hurts in the first round it wouldn’t have been great value? So what do you call their first round pick Reagor. Either the guy fits your football puzzle or he doesn’t. A franchise QB is a great value anywhere from first to last! If you don’t hit a franchise QB what’s the point of the pick—to lose to the 3-7 Giants 13-7?
There's a pretty big element that you're missing:
Drafting Hurts allowed them to get out from under the Wentz contract, which also provided them with the extra ammo to trade down in the 1st round to pick up the Dolphins' 2022 1st round pick while still being able to use one of the picks acquired in the Wentz trade to leapfrog the Giants for Devonta Smith (without having to use any of their original draft picks to do so). And the other pick they got for Wentz is very close to vesting as a 1st rounder.
All of that was put in motion by drafting Hurts.
Quote:
He is, but let’s dummy this down? Why is he having a better year? Isn’t it because he has an offensive line that allows him to utilize his limited (for a QB) but immense talent (in running).
How far can you take that argument? So pound for pound Jones is the better QB because he is graded on a curve for his oline?
So why not saying he is better than other QBs as well that are top QBs in the league; pound for pound?
Yes, he should be graded on a curve. Because of the OL, WR, RB, TE’s on this roster, which are all shit (there is some talent, but they are often hurt ).
Jones may or may not be the answer. Same for hurts. But what we do know for now - hurts has by far better talent around him.
But the asshole posters who shit on Jones and prop up other QB’s who have better talent are well….assholes…
Or is it just the Easy to Root for guys who deserve this kind of spirited defense?
Now, Hurts played poorly today. But he's been better than Jones YTD. That's without dispute.
I feel like you bring up draft position but have you not followed the NFL draft much? QBs are a highly volatile position regardless of where they're taken. Taking a QB #6 and him busting (not saying Jones has but for the sake of argument let's say he has), is not some unheard of thing. Being #6 overall means very little honestly. It's REALLY hard to find a great or even good QB. I'm way more annoyed about the Barkley pick.
Yes, he should be graded on a curve. Because of the OL, WR, RB, TE’s on this roster, which are all shit (there is some talent, but they are often hurt ).
Jones may or may not be the answer. Same for hurts. But what we do know for now - hurts has by far better talent around him.
But the asshole posters who shit on Jones and prop up other QB’s who have better talent are well….assholes…
You have an emotional connection to Jones so that makes his piss poor play excusable and gets graded on a curve? Why not say he is better than Brady then? He is playing on a better team?
Fact is Hurts is more promising (he has not even had a full season of starts under his belt) ; is a better runner -- and not just because of his oline--but because he is a more physical player ; and just as limited a passer as Jones.
Jones in his 3rd year still can't throw a back shoulder to Golladay. Glennon can do that. He can also look one way and throw another. Jones is ending year 3 and cannot do any of these things including locking into one reads. And he has Golladaya too and Toney so lets not pretend he is playing for the Lions. You cannot even say he is a bust. he never should have been drafted that high. the fact Hurts is a late 2nd pick and is bridge between getting out of Wentz contract and is playing better is pretty much game set match.
Quote:
Yes, he should be graded on a curve. Because of the OL, WR, RB, TE’s on this roster, which are all shit (there is some talent, but they are often hurt ).
Jones may or may not be the answer. Same for hurts. But what we do know for now - hurts has by far better talent around him.
But the asshole posters who shit on Jones and prop up other QB’s who have better talent are well….assholes…
You have an emotional connection to Jones so that makes his piss poor play excusable and gets graded on a curve? Why not say he is better than Brady then? He is playing on a better team?
Fact is Hurts is more promising (he has not even had a full season of starts under his belt) ; is a better runner -- and not just because of his oline--but because he is a more physical player ; and just as limited a passer as Jones.
Jones in his 3rd year still can't throw a back shoulder to Golladay. Glennon can do that. He can also look one way and throw another. Jones is ending year 3 and cannot do any of these things including locking into one reads. And he has Golladaya too and Toney so lets not pretend he is playing for the Lions. You cannot even say he is a bust. he never should have been drafted that high. the fact Hurts is a late 2nd pick and is bridge between getting out of Wentz contract and is playing better is pretty much game set match.
I have no emotional connection to Jones - in fact, he’s probably not the solution - but i can recognize the guy got dealt a shitty hand and therefore i haven’t completely judged him. Until he gets a fair shake.
But assholes will be assholes, I guess.
Every NFL roster is full of players who've received fewer opportunities than Jones, and for whom any number of excuses could be made as to why that has happened.
It's on Jones to kick the door down and make the Giants have to start him. It's not on them to make up reasons to start him.
Jones has started 37 games over which he has posted brutal stats and won 32% of his starts. 37 games is a big sample size.
The only case for him being something other than a poor starting quarterback is rooted in excuses and conjecture. This is the fucking NFL, not a kids rec league. No NFL team has time or means to build a perfect roster to carry a passenger quarterback - that's not a viable strategy.
"Fair shake". You've got to be kidding me. You think Bill Belichick is concerned with fair shakes? You think we're going to compete against the league's elite based on a team built on fair shakes? What kind of bullshit is that?
The 2022 Giants will not be a well-constructed team. Their salary structure will be top-heavy, and depth will likely remain a problem. With health, a good draft and a few breaks, though, they could vie for a playoff berth. Any team can. Daniel Jones probably won’t prevent them from clearing that low bar. (We’re talking about a conference that sent Foles, Goff and Jimmy G. to the Super Bowl in consecutive years, over HoF QBs like Rodgers, and Brees, and big names like Wilson, Ryan, Manning, Stafford, Newton, and Prescott.)
More likely, the 2022 Giants will suffer their share - or more - of injuries, drop out of serious contention again by late October, and hold a fire sale of marketable assets at the deadline to clear cap space and accumulate draft picks. That’s the outlook with or without DJ at QB. So I don’t see much reason to move on from him. 2023 is a completely different story.
Every NFL roster is full of players who've received fewer opportunities than Jones, and for whom any number of excuses could be made as to why that has happened.
It's on Jones to kick the door down and make the Giants have to start him. It's not on them to make up reasons to start him.
Jones has started 37 games over which he has posted brutal stats and won 32% of his starts. 37 games is a big sample size.
The only case for him being something other than a poor starting quarterback is rooted in excuses and conjecture. This is the fucking NFL, not a kids rec league. No NFL team has time or means to build a perfect roster to carry a passenger quarterback - that's not a viable strategy.
"Fair shake". You've got to be kidding me. You think Bill Belichick is concerned with fair shakes? You think we're going to compete against the league's elite based on a team built on fair shakes? What kind of bullshit is that?
I have defended Jones constantly, but I am starting to come around to your viewpoint if I am being honest. I think Jones has shown flashes of what he can be, but the inconsistency is too high. This thread was really supposed to be a joke (context people have been starting threads with your name left and right) because you always harp on Hurts’s value, but Reagor the first round draft capital of Hurt’s year is a bust.
Hurts still has time obviously to improve his throwing. I don’t think he will do it, but the man seems to be like Jones in that he is a hard working, tough player.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
I agree with this to a point. I was at the game yesterday and with Hanukkah last night I have not watched the replay yet, but there was a throw to Golladay right after the Eagles scored their TD where Golladay was wide open about ten yards away. I don't know if Golladay was being lazy or not, but it appeared to me that he missed him so bad that Golladay did not even put his hands out. Now, I have not seen that replay, but that has to be a connection, it would have went to midfield at least if he hits it. A top 10 QB hits that 9.999 out of 10 ten times. No pressure, wide open guy in a soft part of the zone, ready split it on the YAC. Has to make that connection.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
BUllshit! First Russ played behind a bad oline and played quite well earlier in his career. So did Andrew Luck.
Aaron Rodgers was not just misisng 3 WR but oline players as well.
We're going to face the reality that...
Jones is nothing special
Jones is Gettle's guy and gettle has to go so Jones has to go.
This isn't Little league where everyone is guaranteed playing time which you paid for.
Did Glennon get a fair shake? He is like what 6 years older than Jones and has played fewer games on teams like Jaguars half way through a 1 win season when they were already fixated on lawrence?
I have seen Glennon throw back shoulder. I have seen him throw one way after looking elsewhere.
Those throws to Golladay in the end zone were a joke. i have seen Herbert throw backshoulders in that situation in his first ever NFL game. I have seen Eli audible and throw TDs in hisfirst ever NFL game We are in week 3 with Jones and he can't throw people open and still runs Barkley in to a wall of defenders after they snill out the play like WFT game.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
I think that's overstated. First, they're not the worst OL in the NFL. 17 NFL teams have given up more sacks. Jones gets pressured a lot though. That's accurate. They're not a good run blocking unit either. That's accurate.
The Bears, Ravens, and Browns have each given up 35+ sacks. The giants, 22.
Second, it's not the worst injury situation in the NFL. This is just one example.
Titans have had 82 different players on their active roster this season.
The full-season record is 84.
Only 5 other teams in history have used 80+ players in a season. The combined record for those teams: 18-61-1
Titans are 8-2 despite all the injuries and new faces coming in.
Although Eli threw some nice back-shoulder fades to Toomer and Burress, he didn't master that trick until later, with Hakeem Nicks.
Quote:
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
I think that's overstated. First, they're not the worst OL in the NFL. 17 NFL teams have given up more sacks. Jones gets pressured a lot though. That's accurate. They're not a good run blocking unit either. That's accurate.
The Bears, Ravens, and Browns have each given up 35+ sacks. The giants, 22.
Second, it's not the worst injury situation in the NFL. This is just one example.
Titans have had 82 different players on their active roster this season.
The full-season record is 84.
Only 5 other teams in history have used 80+ players in a season. The combined record for those teams: 18-61-1
Titans are 8-2 despite all the injuries and new faces coming in.
This is kind of where I am at, there are contributing factors to the poor production, but you would expect more out of Jones if he was the guy. I held out hope until a few weeks ago, but the reality is that he doesn't elevate anyone and the glimpses of greatness are not often enough or consistent enough to believe he is franchise QB
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
TTH already touched on this, but just to go a step further:
There are a number of metrics that can be used to track OL play, particularly as it relates to the passing game. Here are a few that I'm looking at:
1) Sacks per game (since we're still in the middle of bye weeks, not every team has played the same amount of games, so per game average is more fair)
2) Sack percentage (this does not need to be altered since it is already adjusted for pass attempts)
3) Pressures per game
4) Pressure percentage
5) Hurries per game
6) Hits per game
7) Average pocket time
----------------------
SACKS PER GAME
1. Vikings (1.36)
2. Buccaneers (1.36)
3. Rams (1.55)
.
.
.
16. Giants (2.09)
.
.
.
30. Ravens (3.27)
31. Seahawks (3.30)
32. Bears (3.36)
SACK PERCENTAGE
1. Buccaneers (3.1%)
2. Vikings (3.5%)
3. Bills (3.9%)
.
.
.
14. Giants (5.6%)
.
.
.
30. Browns (8.6%)
31. Seahawks (10.3%)
32. Bears (10.7%)
PRESSURES PER GAME
1. Rams (4.8)
2. Buccaneers (5.1)
3. Patriots (6.3)
.
.
.
19. Giants (8.8)
.
.
.
30. Vikings (10.3)
31. Jets (10.4)
32. Broncos (10.5)
PRESSURE PERCENTAGE
1. Buccaneers (11.5%)
2. Rams (12.3%)
3. Steelers (16.4%)
.
.
.
16. Giants (22.1%)
.
.
.
30. Panthers (26.2%)
31. Seahawks (27.2%)
32. Broncos (28.4%)
HURRIES PER GAME
1. Patriots (1.25)
2. Rams (1.27)
3. Titans (1.33)
.
.
.
16. Giants (3.45)
.
.
.
30. Broncos (4.54)
31. Bills (4.73)
32. Vikings (4.91)
HITS PER GAME
1. Browns (1.42)
2. Cardinals (1.45)
3. Buccaneers (1.73)
.
.
.
21. Giants (3.27)
.
.
.
30. Vikings (4.00)
31. Colts (4.58)
32. Falcons (5.09)
AVERAGE POCKET TIME (in seconds)
1. Washington (2.5)
2. Eagles (2.4)
3. Seahawks (2.4)
.
.
.
13. Giants (2.2)
.
.
.
30. Texans (2.0)
31. Packers (2.0)
32. Steelers (1.9)
--------------------
If the Giants have the worst OL in football, and if DJ is being so hampered by their poor play, shouldn't the Giants be the worst in the league in at least one of these categories?
The number say that they're middle of the pack across the board when it comes to pass protection.
Although Eli threw some nice back-shoulder fades to Toomer and Burress, he didn't master that trick until later, with Hakeem Nicks.
I said Glennon throwing back shoulder throws. My early memories of Eli were throwing like 40 a yard bomb. Which pretty much continued throughout his career till they saddled him with a west coast offense coordinator and big suit coach.
Are we really comparing the 2? Jones at this point is a joke to me.
Are we forgetting that we just jettisoned the double agent spy sent by Jerry's World. We were supposed to see this Golladay TD connection. Bark "getting in open space". Instead what we saw in a totally inept and not good QB.
Quote:
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
TTH already touched on this, but just to go a step further:
There are a number of metrics that can be used to track OL play, particularly as it relates to the passing game. Here are a few that I'm looking at:
1) Sacks per game (since we're still in the middle of bye weeks, not every team has played the same amount of games, so per game average is more fair)
2) Sack percentage (this does not need to be altered since it is already adjusted for pass attempts)
3) Pressures per game
4) Pressure percentage
5) Hurries per game
6) Hits per game
7) Average pocket time
----------------------
SACKS PER GAME
1. Vikings (1.36)
2. Buccaneers (1.36)
3. Rams (1.55)
.
.
.
16. Giants (2.09)
.
.
.
30. Ravens (3.27)
31. Seahawks (3.30)
32. Bears (3.36)
SACK PERCENTAGE
1. Buccaneers (3.1%)
2. Vikings (3.5%)
3. Bills (3.9%)
.
.
.
14. Giants (5.6%)
.
.
.
30. Browns (8.6%)
31. Seahawks (10.3%)
32. Bears (10.7%)
PRESSURES PER GAME
1. Rams (4.8)
2. Buccaneers (5.1)
3. Patriots (6.3)
.
.
.
19. Giants (8.8)
.
.
.
30. Vikings (10.3)
31. Jets (10.4)
32. Broncos (10.5)
PRESSURE PERCENTAGE
1. Buccaneers (11.5%)
2. Rams (12.3%)
3. Steelers (16.4%)
.
.
.
16. Giants (22.1%)
.
.
.
30. Panthers (26.2%)
31. Seahawks (27.2%)
32. Broncos (28.4%)
HURRIES PER GAME
1. Patriots (1.25)
2. Rams (1.27)
3. Titans (1.33)
.
.
.
16. Giants (3.45)
.
.
.
30. Broncos (4.54)
31. Bills (4.73)
32. Vikings (4.91)
HITS PER GAME
1. Browns (1.42)
2. Cardinals (1.45)
3. Buccaneers (1.73)
.
.
.
21. Giants (3.27)
.
.
.
30. Vikings (4.00)
31. Colts (4.58)
32. Falcons (5.09)
AVERAGE POCKET TIME (in seconds)
1. Washington (2.5)
2. Eagles (2.4)
3. Seahawks (2.4)
.
.
.
13. Giants (2.2)
.
.
.
30. Texans (2.0)
31. Packers (2.0)
32. Steelers (1.9)
--------------------
If the Giants have the worst OL in football, and if DJ is being so hampered by their poor play, shouldn't the Giants be the worst in the league in at least one of these categories?
The number say that they're middle of the pack across the board when it comes to pass protection.
A lot of this, you would concede right, is the Giants have been aggressive in gameplanning around this. How many 5-7 foot drops do you see Jones doing, or even stepping into the pocket. The Giants gameplan to get the ball out of his hands almost immediately.
Quote:
In comment 15471693 stretch234 said:
Quote:
Having the worst OL in the sport is not an excuse it is a reality. So is the fact that his top 5 WR have missed 3+ games, and his top RB has missed huge time.
There is not another NFL QB who has dealt with anything close to this.
They have to be absolutely perfect just to score a TD
Mahomes looked like crap for weeks when his OL was struggling, and he had healthy Kelce and Hill. In the 7 game stretch, sans the Raiders, they scored 20, 31, 3, 20, 13, 19
Russ looks like shit behind his bad OL with healthy WR
Dallas continues to prove they can’t function without T. Smith at LT
Rodgers played a game without his top 3 WR - what happened, his RB ran for 140 and had twice as many catches as the WR. Has the Giants OL been capable of having a RB run for 140
There is no QB in the NFL who is going to function with an OL that can’t run block and can’t pass block
Get a competent OL and give him the 4th year and then make the determination.
They are likely to have 5 of the top 80 picks. Fix the OL, get and edge rusher, get a TE and go from there
TTH already touched on this, but just to go a step further:
There are a number of metrics that can be used to track OL play, particularly as it relates to the passing game. Here are a few that I'm looking at:
1) Sacks per game (since we're still in the middle of bye weeks, not every team has played the same amount of games, so per game average is more fair)
2) Sack percentage (this does not need to be altered since it is already adjusted for pass attempts)
3) Pressures per game
4) Pressure percentage
5) Hurries per game
6) Hits per game
7) Average pocket time
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SACKS PER GAME
1. Vikings (1.36)
2. Buccaneers (1.36)
3. Rams (1.55)
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16. Giants (2.09)
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30. Ravens (3.27)
31. Seahawks (3.30)
32. Bears (3.36)
SACK PERCENTAGE
1. Buccaneers (3.1%)
2. Vikings (3.5%)
3. Bills (3.9%)
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14. Giants (5.6%)
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30. Browns (8.6%)
31. Seahawks (10.3%)
32. Bears (10.7%)
PRESSURES PER GAME
1. Rams (4.8)
2. Buccaneers (5.1)
3. Patriots (6.3)
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19. Giants (8.8)
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30. Vikings (10.3)
31. Jets (10.4)
32. Broncos (10.5)
PRESSURE PERCENTAGE
1. Buccaneers (11.5%)
2. Rams (12.3%)
3. Steelers (16.4%)
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16. Giants (22.1%)
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30. Panthers (26.2%)
31. Seahawks (27.2%)
32. Broncos (28.4%)
HURRIES PER GAME
1. Patriots (1.25)
2. Rams (1.27)
3. Titans (1.33)
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16. Giants (3.45)
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30. Broncos (4.54)
31. Bills (4.73)
32. Vikings (4.91)
HITS PER GAME
1. Browns (1.42)
2. Cardinals (1.45)
3. Buccaneers (1.73)
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21. Giants (3.27)
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30. Vikings (4.00)
31. Colts (4.58)
32. Falcons (5.09)
AVERAGE POCKET TIME (in seconds)
1. Washington (2.5)
2. Eagles (2.4)
3. Seahawks (2.4)
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13. Giants (2.2)
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30. Texans (2.0)
31. Packers (2.0)
32. Steelers (1.9)
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If the Giants have the worst OL in football, and if DJ is being so hampered by their poor play, shouldn't the Giants be the worst in the league in at least one of these categories?
The number say that they're middle of the pack across the board when it comes to pass protection.
A lot of this, you would concede right, is the Giants have been aggressive in gameplanning around this. How many 5-7 foot drops do you see Jones doing, or even stepping into the pocket. The Giants gameplan to get the ball out of his hands almost immediately.
Jones did a lot of climbing the pocket yesterday. He had time. In yesterday's game, receivers just didn't make catches. At least they were in position to score TDs though.
Gameplanning around a weakness may be right, but every team does so. The Ravens lost their franchise LT early this year. They are gameplanning around it weekly.
Giants OL, though below average and needs to be a lot better in run play, is functional enough.
This same OL helped Booker rush for 99 on 21 carries against the Raiders.
It's simply not "the worst in the league".