Andy Martino
@martinonyc
·
18m
Sources: Mets have offered Scherzer more than $40 million per year. Length unknown. Doesn’t mean he’ll sign there; that’s still unclear.
will see what they give up but love the fit for the Marlins
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
2m
Marlins close to acquiring catcher Jacob Stallings from Pirates, pending a medical review, sources tell @TheAthletic
.
and would have rather gotten Kimbrel in FA. I also don't know many fans who would have traded PCA for a rental when they were not really a playoff team, if they were going in knowing it was a rental. If it's a case of we signed Scherzer, so no money for Baez, that's another thing. The Mets couldn't have banked on being able to get a SP like Scherzer.
I wouldn't have been heartbroken if they lost the 14th pick for Ray, but there are ways to improve the rotation now without giving up picks.
it seems a lot of you fans prefer to draft the player then trade them for a proven veteran (even as a rental) than to sign a player that prevents you from drafting a player in the first place.
I'm the opposite, once we draft the player (if they do anything well) I don't want to trade them at all, I want to see them grow and get promoted up the majors and have a lengthy career.
My views also change when I sense the team is "in striking distance" of being a contender. When the team is on the verge of contending my focus shifts to finishing the job, something the Wilpons were never willing to do (financially).
Players values aren't set in stone the day they are drafted.
Kelenic's value consistently increased and we all wanted to keep him.
PCA had a major injury and as other guys in the system had huge years he was the least bad option to trade.
I personally never want to trade prospects or give up the finite assets each team gets to find them (draft picks and pool $). I would pretty much never do it in the offseason.
the only time I would do it is at the deadline because that's when a season depends on a move made or not made - like Cespedes. They don't all work out but recently we've seen teams literally win or not win the WS thanks to deadline moves. We don't face the Royals without Cespedes and the Royals don't beat us without Zobrist. The Braves and Nats don't get their rings without deadline pickups. The Dodgers weren't going anywhere without Scherzer last year. Houston doesn't win without Verlander.
I'm personally only giving up top 50-100 prospects for a guy that has a legitimate chance to be an MVP down the stretch and be the difference between missing/making the playoffs. Or maybe a deal like Lindor last year where you are getting a face of the franchise type at a somewhat discounted rate bc of their impending FA status.
or like Kelenic became. The only trade I can think of from the last decade or two that would have been tempting is a Chris Sale type. But pitchers break so easily even that would be tough. Moncada will almost definitely outproduce Sale in the long run but you can't really argue with any deal that wins a WS.
Seager is a fantastic player. Likely moves to 3b soonish but man can he hit.
I would think their current / intermediate plan is for Seager to play short with Semien at second since they committed $500mm to the two of them.
Sounds about right. He's still going to be an elite player at 3b so it's not as if they signed a DH.
in for a penny in for a pound I guess. Seager/Semien up the middle is on balance probably a positive defensively, and if Seager can be a solid 3b there's not a huge value loss if he does keep trending backwards at SS. He can rake. In a good lineup and in that ballpark it's probably easier to feel confident about Semien's offense too.
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Kevin Goldstein
@Kevin_Goldstein
·
3m
People coming at me saying the state tax thing really doesn't matter because you pay taxes in the state where the game is being played. Rangers play 81 home games, 9 in Houston, 9 in Seattle and 3 in Tampa. That's 102 games, nearly two-thirds with zero tax status. It matters.
salaries are going up and players are racing to get deals done now. the same person who told me scherzer wasn't a lock back to LAD told me the CBA negotiations this time around are much simpler than the negotiations in April 2020 because both sides are pretty much ok with most of the status quo. Said there are "basically just 2 things to work out" and while it won't get done until they are closer to the real deadlines nobody expects any sort of interruption to the season.
I didn't really believe that but seeing the $ fly this week makes me think maybe that's right.
sign minor leaguer Nate Fisher. 26 in May, lefty RP Link - ( New Window )
nothing really stands out. 11 walks/47 k's in 37 innings is decent. steamer projection is basically JAG. but I guess the world needs some lefty JAGs too.
about same age and same contract would you take Lindor or Seager?
assuming you had the choice right now. I think I'd go Seager even expecting the move to 3b. The offense is just too good and maybe this is false hope but I think he could hit even more in the future while i'm less certain Lindor will hit 30 homers again. Really really close though. If lindor had a normal year last year he'd probably be the hands down choice. Steamer projects them almost dead even next year.
RE: about same age and same contract would you take Lindor or Seager?
assuming you had the choice right now. I think I'd go Seager even expecting the move to 3b. The offense is just too good and maybe this is false hope but I think he could hit even more in the future while i'm less certain Lindor will hit 30 homers again. Really really close though. If lindor had a normal year last year he'd probably be the hands down choice. Steamer projects them almost dead even next year.
I’d take Correa over both tbh. He looks like he’s peaking now and may even have a next level he can reach
Not saying I wouldn’t choose him too, just a little trickier to evaluate. MLBTR had him 15m above Seaver but also had Seager 20m lower than he got, so I don’t think it’s crazy Correa beats his projection by a lot more than that.
Not saying I wouldn’t choose him too, just a little trickier to evaluate. MLBTR had him 15m above Seaver but also had Seager 20m lower than he got, so I don’t think it’s crazy Correa beats his projection by a lot more than that.
I guess it depends how much bigger. If we are talking 360 vs. 341 then I say "who cares"? If he's getting 450 million or something then yeah I guess it's a discussion. He just looks to be hitting his prime now, he's a special pure athlete too which helps (obviously).
likely lost or will lose Syndergaard, Stroman, Conforto, Baez, and lesser pieces and before December (meaning the roster is still being built) they are already a better team than in 2021 (assuming health of course).
is guys like Degrom come around once in a generation and you don't want to waste their prime
Mets won with both Seaver and Godden, their other two greats. You have to surround Degrom with the talent capable of winning a championship, even if it means sacrificing the future a bit.
RE: and im almost never giving up a top 10-20 prospect like Alvarez
or like Kelenic became. The only trade I can think of from the last decade or two that would have been tempting is a Chris Sale type. But pitchers break so easily even that would be tough. Moncada will almost definitely outproduce Sale in the long run but you can't really argue with any deal that wins a WS.
Alvarez is a killer. IMO he will be way better than Kelenic. In fact, I expect Alvarez to be the number one prospect in baseball at some point this upcoming season.
I think he is up there with Wright and Reyes as a prospect.
is guys like Degrom come around once in a generation and you don't want to waste their prime
Mets won with both Seaver and Godden, their other two greats. You have to surround Degrom with the talent capable of winning a championship, even if it means sacrificing the future a bit.
100% agree.
ace pitchers are impossible to find. the combo of Harvey + Syndergaard being a star right away in 2015 is why they made the Cespedes deal. JDG to a lesser extent at that point.
they have JDG so why not go for it? worst case it doesn't work and you have potentially valuable trade chips at the deadline.
RE: RE: and im almost never giving up a top 10-20 prospect like Alvarez
or like Kelenic became. The only trade I can think of from the last decade or two that would have been tempting is a Chris Sale type. But pitchers break so easily even that would be tough. Moncada will almost definitely outproduce Sale in the long run but you can't really argue with any deal that wins a WS.
Alvarez is a killer. IMO he will be way better than Kelenic. In fact, I expect Alvarez to be the number one prospect in baseball at some point this upcoming season.
I think he is up there with Wright and Reyes as a prospect.
Wright and Reyes were both good prospects but they seemed better at the time because it had been so long since we'd had any homegrown impact players. Who was the last homegrown all star (as a met) before them? Alfonzo I guess but I don't think he was ever considered a big prospect.
Good for the Mets. I'm not a fan-not a big baseball dude @ all-but I'd like to see them do well for cousins sake. And deGrom is awesome to watch; I've seen him 3 times in person...he is electric. Congrats gents!
RE: RE: and im almost never giving up a top 10-20 prospect like Alvarez
or like Kelenic became. The only trade I can think of from the last decade or two that would have been tempting is a Chris Sale type. But pitchers break so easily even that would be tough. Moncada will almost definitely outproduce Sale in the long run but you can't really argue with any deal that wins a WS.
Alvarez is a killer. IMO he will be way better than Kelenic. In fact, I expect Alvarez to be the number one prospect in baseball at some point this upcoming season.
I think he is up there with Wright and Reyes as a prospect.
I'm a big Alvarez fan, but "way better than Kelenic" is probably some hyperbole.
let's not forget Rosario was the #5 prospect in baseball for a while (I thought I remember him climbing to #3 with some in-season graduations from the ranking lists) and prospect status is just that, prospect status until you play for real.
Kelenic had a rough start, but came on at the end.
I think he's going to be great.
I think Alvarez can be too, but a lot more distance between that happening and how close Kelenic is to confidently make that claim.
I hope you're right, odds are you will be wrong.
the big potential edge Alvarez has on Kelenic is positional value
Kelenic is likely a COF and that sets the bar high for how good he needs to be. Is he Acuna or Soto? Very doubtful. True two way catchers are rarer than aces.
Rosario in hindsight was overrated based on his tools. They are still all there but he hadn't really put them together for an extended period of time. I still think he can reach a didi level but he's never going to be as good as the top guys in the group that debuted right ahead of him (all the guys we talked about earlier Lindor, Seager, Correa, Baez, etc).
really good article on the athletic reacting to scherzer
obviously the mad max persona is one thing, but the ability to reinvent and find a way to win is what this team missed last year. Guys got stuck and just couldn't find a way out.
Obviously the players they've targeted in FA were due to their talent first but it's a nice secondary that all 4 of the players they've added are players who know how to grind out success. Canha was a rule 5 pick 8 picks ahead of Sean Gilmartin. Escobar came up as a SS and reinvented him at a few different positions. Marte overcame adversity off the field nobody should have to go through. And now add in the a HOFer and WS champ who just a few months ago was willing to throw out of the BP to help his team. That is the type of mentality they've missed since the injuries to Harvey/Syndergaard basically left JDG without a true wingman. That is the mentality that had Harvey on the mound in game 5 and Syndergaard throwing at Escobar in the 1 game they won. It's the mentality a certain still FA SP thinks he has but doesn't.
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Brittany Ghiroli, The Athletic MLB
Credit to the Mets and Steve Cohen for doing what a big-market team with a deep-pocketed owner should: spend. While some may scoff at the years and value of a contract for a 37-year-old, Scherzer isn’t your average 37-year-old. A surefire future Hall of Famer, Scherzer’s meticulous attention to offseason training and his ability to work around injuries — major and minor — is nothing short of legendary on teams he’s been a part of. Scherzer, a three-time Cy Young Award winner, has twice changed his grip in-season and still gone on to dominate. He’s a guy who bristles at the notion that his best years are behind him, and who are we mere mortals to argue otherwise? Players have consistently voted Scherzer as one of the game’s most uncomfortable at-bats. The Mets got a competitive generational talent on Monday and, when you think about Scherzer and deGrom, the Mets rotation isn’t just stacked up top. It’s truly terrifying.
Though I am always a sucker for upside guys like Scott and Nicolas does have potential to remain a starter. Even if he doesn’t develop enough control or secondary offerings what he currently has plays in the bullpen.
When Scherzer consults with the medical staff about any of his injuries, the conversation typically starts with one question from the right-hander: “Will I hurt it more?” If the answer is no, it’s just a matter of tolerating the pain. And it seems no one has a pain tolerance threshold quite like Scherzer, who didn’t go on the injured list until his 10th season, when a neck issue surfaced in August 2017.
Rizzo: That was a very heated, emotional discussion.
Zimmerman: It was always a last resort. He’d try all kinds of stuff up until the morning he pitched.
Martinez: We’d finally convince him (to go on the 10-day IL). And then all of a sudden three days later, he’d come to my office (and say), “I could have been ready.”
What Scherzer has endured while continuing to pitch forms a much longer list. There was the sprained right ring finger the last five weeks of 2016, the season he won his second Cy Young. After an MRI that December revealed a stress fracture, Scherzer altered his fastball grip that spring, putting an extra finger on the baseball. He won the Cy Young Award again.
In 2018, Scherzer dealt with previously unreported thumb pain by again altering his grip.
Rizzo: The thumb, that was legendary stuff.
After every start, Scherzer’s right thumb would be swollen. Given his previous finger issues, the Nationals were skeptical about another grip change. Would he still be Scherzer?
Martinez: We went through it and I told him, if this means he’s going to have to change something else (to his mechanics), we need to do something else.
A week later, Scherzer stormed into the team’s training room and demanded the team’s training staff watch his bullpen workout. He had again figured out a way to compete. Scherzer struck out a career-high 300 hitters in 2018, when he made 33 starts and finished runner-up in Cy Young voting. At one point, Scherzer tallied up his starts over a calendar year. They totaled 33. He said he felt good in three of them.
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In June 2019, Scherzer bunted a ball back into his face and suffered a broken nose and black eye. He insisted he could pitch the following day. Scherzer got his wish, striking out 10 in the Nationals’ 2-0 win. Afterward he chastised reporters for suggesting his injuries were worrisome.
Four months later, Scherzer woke up the morning of his scheduled start in Game 5 of the World Series and couldn’t move his neck. He needed help getting out of bed and getting dressed. His wife, Erica, who kept him positive, had to drive Scherzer to the field because the pain in his neck and upper trapezius was so debilitating. That night Washington pitched Joe Ross instead. Three days later, in a winner-take-all Game 7, Scherzer got the start and pitched five innings in the Nationals’ World Series win over the Astros.
How much did the injury still bother Scherzer? He won’t say.
Martinez: He’s a tough cat.
Rizzo: What separates him from almost anybody is that he knows his body as well or better than anyone I’ve ever been around. He knows how to fix his own ailments.
The Dodgers are seeing up close how self-aware Scherzer is. He left his first September start because of hamstring soreness, albeit after striking out nine, walking none and giving up three hits in six innings against the Braves. He not only made his next scheduled start, he went eight innings and struck out 13.
Scherzer has been a machine since joining a Dodgers rotation that had been decimated by injuries. He has allowed only five earned runs in his first seven starts, the second of which was shortened by inclement weather. Across 43 innings, he has struck out 63 and has a 1.05 ERA. The Dodgers are 7-0 in those starts and Scherzer, after Monday’s 13-strikeout performance, has again thrust himself into the NL Cy Young Award race.
A lot of fans and "experts" who follow other teams are saying that adding Scherzer to a 75 win team does not make you a contender.
To me, there are three reasons Mets season went south.
1. Mets tried to crash course the hitters into accepting analytics. When you see every guy in the lineup--except for Alonso and Nimmo--hitting below expectations, you have to look for a common denominator. When Conforto explained his poor first half by saying he was thinking too much about such things as where his feet were placed, he basically said without saying it that the organization messed guys up with their "new approach." That explains why so many established hitters all had bad seasons the same year.
2. Lack of pitching depth. Thor and Walker were coming off seasons plagued by injury. Carrasco was treated with chemo for a very serious cancer in 2019. Degrom already had the torn ucl. Almost the entire rotation was a question mark, yet the Mets had no backup plan other than Petersen. They lucked out that Megill came out of nowhere but that was hardly enough. They also lucked out the top guys in the bullpen were healthy all year or it could have been a real disaster.
3. Bad clubhouse: Lindor-McNeil fight, the thumbs down. These were signs that something was not right and once the season turned, the team plummeted because guys were looking to pad their own stats. Rojas made matters worse by playing his favorites. I think that is one reason Mets are saying goodbye to Baez. On the field he thrived but in the clubhouse he was not a good combo with Lindor. I think it is also one of the reasons Mets had a hard time recruiting. It had gotten around baseball that there was a bad environment. I think that is also why Thor left. He heard things from guys on the team.
I think they have addressed 1 and 3. They just need to address 2 by adding pitching depth.
I also hope they keep Dom, McNeil and JD. Use those guys as trade chips at the deadline. Nobody can predict injuries and you need to have pieces you can exchange.
cant blame the mets for not wanting to commit that kind of money after the scherzer deal. Especially when its clear they still need to add some pitching.
the Mets didnt get more then 15 starts from any starter. Thats the main reason we were a 75 win team. Sure the offense contributed but when you lose carrasco for most of the year, have Thor get a setback, lose degrom for the second half, lose backup options like Luchessi/Yamamoto/Peterson for the majority of the year its tough. We did all want more depth but they mets did have a ton of starting pitcher injuries.
Injuries will happen, but hopefully we can stay a bit healthier in the rotation next year.
the Mets didnt get more then 15 starts from any starter. Thats the main reason we were a 75 win team. Sure the offense contributed but when you lose carrasco for most of the year, have Thor get a setback, lose degrom for the second half, lose backup options like Luchessi/Yamamoto/Peterson for the majority of the year its tough. We did all want more depth but they mets did have a ton of starting pitcher injuries.
Injuries will happen, but hopefully we can stay a bit healthier in the rotation next year.
Lacking of hitting was a big issue, especially in the first half.
Mets were leading the league in staff ERA (along with Dodgers) and were only a few games above .500.
they actually had enough pitching depth once they acquired Hill/Williams to the point that they only needed Williams to start a few games in the 2nd half. The rotation mostly went in turn - Stroman, Carrasco, Walker, Megill, Hill. All 5 of those guys will probably be starters again next year at some point. None of them are Eickoffs.
And they had that depth despite losing Yamamoto, Peterson, and Luchesi for the season.
the issue with the pitching was mismanagement of injuries to the TOR guys.
they let Syndergaard push his rehab too hard and he had a setback
same with Carrasco and his hamstring, then rushing him to big leagues with no rehab
and kind of same of with JDG and all his ailments when he got pulled early in June/July
and they probably needed a better plan to manage Walker's injuries
Altogether it was bad injury luck (probably in part impacted by the short covid year) + bad decision making.
but I don't think depth was the issue. They ended the year with 6 healthy starters plus 5 on DL (Thor/JDG perhaps ready to come off it mattered). 11 is pretty deep.
the Mets didnt get more then 15 starts from any starter. Thats the main reason we were a 75 win team. Sure the offense contributed but when you lose carrasco for most of the year, have Thor get a setback, lose degrom for the second half, lose backup options like Luchessi/Yamamoto/Peterson for the majority of the year its tough. We did all want more depth but they mets did have a ton of starting pitcher injuries.
Injuries will happen, but hopefully we can stay a bit healthier in the rotation next year.
Lacking of hitting was a big issue, especially in the first half.
Mets were leading the league in staff ERA (along with Dodgers) and were only a few games above .500.
100% agree. And the big hits they were getting in the first half were often from Peraza, Pillar, Villar, etc.
Corey Seager is apparently getting 10/325 from Texas. That makes the Scherzer deal look like change.
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
2m
Marlins close to acquiring catcher Jacob Stallings from Pirates, pending a medical review, sources tell @TheAthletic
.
I wouldn't have been heartbroken if they lost the 14th pick for Ray, but there are ways to improve the rotation now without giving up picks.
I'm the opposite, once we draft the player (if they do anything well) I don't want to trade them at all, I want to see them grow and get promoted up the majors and have a lengthy career.
My views also change when I sense the team is "in striking distance" of being a contender. When the team is on the verge of contending my focus shifts to finishing the job, something the Wilpons were never willing to do (financially).
Players values aren't set in stone the day they are drafted.
Kelenic's value consistently increased and we all wanted to keep him.
PCA had a major injury and as other guys in the system had huge years he was the least bad option to trade.
I personally never want to trade prospects or give up the finite assets each team gets to find them (draft picks and pool $). I would pretty much never do it in the offseason.
the only time I would do it is at the deadline because that's when a season depends on a move made or not made - like Cespedes. They don't all work out but recently we've seen teams literally win or not win the WS thanks to deadline moves. We don't face the Royals without Cespedes and the Royals don't beat us without Zobrist. The Braves and Nats don't get their rings without deadline pickups. The Dodgers weren't going anywhere without Scherzer last year. Houston doesn't win without Verlander.
I'm personally only giving up top 50-100 prospects for a guy that has a legitimate chance to be an MVP down the stretch and be the difference between missing/making the playoffs. Or maybe a deal like Lindor last year where you are getting a face of the franchise type at a somewhat discounted rate bc of their impending FA status.
I would think their current / intermediate plan is for Seager to play short with Semien at second since they committed $500mm to the two of them.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
Pirates get in addition to Zach Thompson pitching prospects Kyle Nicolas and Connor Scott for Stallings
Quote:
Seager is a fantastic player. Likely moves to 3b soonish but man can he hit.
I would think their current / intermediate plan is for Seager to play short with Semien at second since they committed $500mm to the two of them.
Sounds about right. He's still going to be an elite player at 3b so it's not as if they signed a DH.
Quote:
In comment 15473063 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Seager is a fantastic player. Likely moves to 3b soonish but man can he hit.
I would think their current / intermediate plan is for Seager to play short with Semien at second since they committed $500mm to the two of them.
Sounds about right. He's still going to be an elite player at 3b so it's not as if they signed a DH.
in for a penny in for a pound I guess. Seager/Semien up the middle is on balance probably a positive defensively, and if Seager can be a solid 3b there's not a huge value loss if he does keep trending backwards at SS. He can rake. In a good lineup and in that ballpark it's probably easier to feel confident about Semien's offense too.
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Kevin Goldstein
@Kevin_Goldstein
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3m
People coming at me saying the state tax thing really doesn't matter because you pay taxes in the state where the game is being played. Rangers play 81 home games, 9 in Houston, 9 in Seattle and 3 in Tampa. That's 102 games, nearly two-thirds with zero tax status. It matters.
Link - ( New Window )
I didn't really believe that but seeing the $ fly this week makes me think maybe that's right.
nothing really stands out. 11 walks/47 k's in 37 innings is decent. steamer projection is basically JAG. but I guess the world needs some lefty JAGs too.
I’d take Correa over both tbh. He looks like he’s peaking now and may even have a next level he can reach
I guess it depends how much bigger. If we are talking 360 vs. 341 then I say "who cares"? If he's getting 450 million or something then yeah I guess it's a discussion. He just looks to be hitting his prime now, he's a special pure athlete too which helps (obviously).
Mets won with both Seaver and Godden, their other two greats. You have to surround Degrom with the talent capable of winning a championship, even if it means sacrificing the future a bit.
Alvarez is a killer. IMO he will be way better than Kelenic. In fact, I expect Alvarez to be the number one prospect in baseball at some point this upcoming season.
I think he is up there with Wright and Reyes as a prospect.
Mets won with both Seaver and Godden, their other two greats. You have to surround Degrom with the talent capable of winning a championship, even if it means sacrificing the future a bit.
100% agree.
ace pitchers are impossible to find. the combo of Harvey + Syndergaard being a star right away in 2015 is why they made the Cespedes deal. JDG to a lesser extent at that point.
they have JDG so why not go for it? worst case it doesn't work and you have potentially valuable trade chips at the deadline.
Quote:
or like Kelenic became. The only trade I can think of from the last decade or two that would have been tempting is a Chris Sale type. But pitchers break so easily even that would be tough. Moncada will almost definitely outproduce Sale in the long run but you can't really argue with any deal that wins a WS.
Alvarez is a killer. IMO he will be way better than Kelenic. In fact, I expect Alvarez to be the number one prospect in baseball at some point this upcoming season.
I think he is up there with Wright and Reyes as a prospect.
Wright and Reyes were both good prospects but they seemed better at the time because it had been so long since we'd had any homegrown impact players. Who was the last homegrown all star (as a met) before them? Alfonzo I guess but I don't think he was ever considered a big prospect.
3. Free Agent
4. Walker
5. Fill in the blank here.
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or like Kelenic became. The only trade I can think of from the last decade or two that would have been tempting is a Chris Sale type. But pitchers break so easily even that would be tough. Moncada will almost definitely outproduce Sale in the long run but you can't really argue with any deal that wins a WS.
Alvarez is a killer. IMO he will be way better than Kelenic. In fact, I expect Alvarez to be the number one prospect in baseball at some point this upcoming season.
I think he is up there with Wright and Reyes as a prospect.
I'm a big Alvarez fan, but "way better than Kelenic" is probably some hyperbole.
let's not forget Rosario was the #5 prospect in baseball for a while (I thought I remember him climbing to #3 with some in-season graduations from the ranking lists) and prospect status is just that, prospect status until you play for real.
Kelenic had a rough start, but came on at the end.
I think he's going to be great.
I think Alvarez can be too, but a lot more distance between that happening and how close Kelenic is to confidently make that claim.
I hope you're right, odds are you will be wrong.
Rosario in hindsight was overrated based on his tools. They are still all there but he hadn't really put them together for an extended period of time. I still think he can reach a didi level but he's never going to be as good as the top guys in the group that debuted right ahead of him (all the guys we talked about earlier Lindor, Seager, Correa, Baez, etc).
Obviously the players they've targeted in FA were due to their talent first but it's a nice secondary that all 4 of the players they've added are players who know how to grind out success. Canha was a rule 5 pick 8 picks ahead of Sean Gilmartin. Escobar came up as a SS and reinvented him at a few different positions. Marte overcame adversity off the field nobody should have to go through. And now add in the a HOFer and WS champ who just a few months ago was willing to throw out of the BP to help his team. That is the type of mentality they've missed since the injuries to Harvey/Syndergaard basically left JDG without a true wingman. That is the mentality that had Harvey on the mound in game 5 and Syndergaard throwing at Escobar in the 1 game they won. It's the mentality a certain still FA SP thinks he has but doesn't.
Credit to the Mets and Steve Cohen for doing what a big-market team with a deep-pocketed owner should: spend. While some may scoff at the years and value of a contract for a 37-year-old, Scherzer isn’t your average 37-year-old. A surefire future Hall of Famer, Scherzer’s meticulous attention to offseason training and his ability to work around injuries — major and minor — is nothing short of legendary on teams he’s been a part of. Scherzer, a three-time Cy Young Award winner, has twice changed his grip in-season and still gone on to dominate. He’s a guy who bristles at the notion that his best years are behind him, and who are we mere mortals to argue otherwise? Players have consistently voted Scherzer as one of the game’s most uncomfortable at-bats. The Mets got a competitive generational talent on Monday and, when you think about Scherzer and deGrom, the Mets rotation isn’t just stacked up top. It’s truly terrifying.
Max Scherzer, Mets agree to 3-year, $130 million deal: Roundtable reaction from The Athletic’s MLB writers - ( New Window )
Rizzo: That was a very heated, emotional discussion.
Zimmerman: It was always a last resort. He’d try all kinds of stuff up until the morning he pitched.
Martinez: We’d finally convince him (to go on the 10-day IL). And then all of a sudden three days later, he’d come to my office (and say), “I could have been ready.”
What Scherzer has endured while continuing to pitch forms a much longer list. There was the sprained right ring finger the last five weeks of 2016, the season he won his second Cy Young. After an MRI that December revealed a stress fracture, Scherzer altered his fastball grip that spring, putting an extra finger on the baseball. He won the Cy Young Award again.
In 2018, Scherzer dealt with previously unreported thumb pain by again altering his grip.
Rizzo: The thumb, that was legendary stuff.
After every start, Scherzer’s right thumb would be swollen. Given his previous finger issues, the Nationals were skeptical about another grip change. Would he still be Scherzer?
Martinez: We went through it and I told him, if this means he’s going to have to change something else (to his mechanics), we need to do something else.
A week later, Scherzer stormed into the team’s training room and demanded the team’s training staff watch his bullpen workout. He had again figured out a way to compete. Scherzer struck out a career-high 300 hitters in 2018, when he made 33 starts and finished runner-up in Cy Young voting. At one point, Scherzer tallied up his starts over a calendar year. They totaled 33. He said he felt good in three of them.
Four months later, Scherzer woke up the morning of his scheduled start in Game 5 of the World Series and couldn’t move his neck. He needed help getting out of bed and getting dressed. His wife, Erica, who kept him positive, had to drive Scherzer to the field because the pain in his neck and upper trapezius was so debilitating. That night Washington pitched Joe Ross instead. Three days later, in a winner-take-all Game 7, Scherzer got the start and pitched five innings in the Nationals’ World Series win over the Astros.
How much did the injury still bother Scherzer? He won’t say.
Martinez: He’s a tough cat.
Rizzo: What separates him from almost anybody is that he knows his body as well or better than anyone I’ve ever been around. He knows how to fix his own ailments.
The Dodgers are seeing up close how self-aware Scherzer is. He left his first September start because of hamstring soreness, albeit after striking out nine, walking none and giving up three hits in six innings against the Braves. He not only made his next scheduled start, he went eight innings and struck out 13.
Scherzer has been a machine since joining a Dodgers rotation that had been decimated by injuries. He has allowed only five earned runs in his first seven starts, the second of which was shortened by inclement weather. Across 43 innings, he has struck out 63 and has a 1.05 ERA. The Dodgers are 7-0 in those starts and Scherzer, after Monday’s 13-strikeout performance, has again thrust himself into the NL Cy Young Award race.
True grit: Max Scherzer operates strictly on his terms; try to keep up - ( New Window )
1.) deGrom
2.) Sherzer
3.) Rodon
4.) Cookie
5.) Walker
1.) Nimmo LF
2.) Marte CF
3.) Alonso 1B
4.) Shwarber DH
5.) Lindor SS
6.) Cano/McNeil 2B
7.) Escobar 3B
8.) Canha/McNeil RF
9.) McCann C
Being compared to Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling - ARI 2001.
I think it's a solid comparison, in the 2001 season Johnson turned 38 and Schilling 34.
In the 2022 season, Scherzer will be 38 and deGrom 34.
Johnson and Schilling finished 1/2 in NL Cy Young voting, Johnson took WS MVP as well.
Would love to see this comparison hold up.
@timbhealey
· 7m
It is “doubtful,” a source says, that the Mets pull off any additional deals this week.
Still, their pre-lockout haul has become an impressive one: Max Scherzer, Starling Marte, Mark Canha and Eduardo Escobar (and Nick Plummer).
https://sny.tv/articles/steve-cohen-mets-max-scherzer-next-baseball-night-in-ny - ( New Window )
fingers crossed that also means no mcneil trade.
extend Nimmo and sign some pitchers. the every day group is solid. maybe add a few more buy low depth guys like Plummer/Lee (ideally with options).
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Ramsay is hearing they are out on Baez
fingers crossed that also means no mcneil trade.
extend Nimmo and sign some pitchers. the every day group is solid. maybe add a few more buy low depth guys like Plummer/Lee (ideally with options).
Agree for the most part. Id stil sign Shwarber and make it work though. Alonso needs some protection. Im relieved Baez is walking honestly.
To me, there are three reasons Mets season went south.
1. Mets tried to crash course the hitters into accepting analytics. When you see every guy in the lineup--except for Alonso and Nimmo--hitting below expectations, you have to look for a common denominator. When Conforto explained his poor first half by saying he was thinking too much about such things as where his feet were placed, he basically said without saying it that the organization messed guys up with their "new approach." That explains why so many established hitters all had bad seasons the same year.
2. Lack of pitching depth. Thor and Walker were coming off seasons plagued by injury. Carrasco was treated with chemo for a very serious cancer in 2019. Degrom already had the torn ucl. Almost the entire rotation was a question mark, yet the Mets had no backup plan other than Petersen. They lucked out that Megill came out of nowhere but that was hardly enough. They also lucked out the top guys in the bullpen were healthy all year or it could have been a real disaster.
3. Bad clubhouse: Lindor-McNeil fight, the thumbs down. These were signs that something was not right and once the season turned, the team plummeted because guys were looking to pad their own stats. Rojas made matters worse by playing his favorites. I think that is one reason Mets are saying goodbye to Baez. On the field he thrived but in the clubhouse he was not a good combo with Lindor. I think it is also one of the reasons Mets had a hard time recruiting. It had gotten around baseball that there was a bad environment. I think that is also why Thor left. He heard things from guys on the team.
I think they have addressed 1 and 3. They just need to address 2 by adding pitching depth.
I also hope they keep Dom, McNeil and JD. Use those guys as trade chips at the deadline. Nobody can predict injuries and you need to have pieces you can exchange.
Injuries will happen, but hopefully we can stay a bit healthier in the rotation next year.
Injuries will happen, but hopefully we can stay a bit healthier in the rotation next year.
Lacking of hitting was a big issue, especially in the first half.
Mets were leading the league in staff ERA (along with Dodgers) and were only a few games above .500.
And they had that depth despite losing Yamamoto, Peterson, and Luchesi for the season.
the issue with the pitching was mismanagement of injuries to the TOR guys.
they let Syndergaard push his rehab too hard and he had a setback
same with Carrasco and his hamstring, then rushing him to big leagues with no rehab
and kind of same of with JDG and all his ailments when he got pulled early in June/July
and they probably needed a better plan to manage Walker's injuries
Altogether it was bad injury luck (probably in part impacted by the short covid year) + bad decision making.
but I don't think depth was the issue. They ended the year with 6 healthy starters plus 5 on DL (Thor/JDG perhaps ready to come off it mattered). 11 is pretty deep.
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the Mets didnt get more then 15 starts from any starter. Thats the main reason we were a 75 win team. Sure the offense contributed but when you lose carrasco for most of the year, have Thor get a setback, lose degrom for the second half, lose backup options like Luchessi/Yamamoto/Peterson for the majority of the year its tough. We did all want more depth but they mets did have a ton of starting pitcher injuries.
Injuries will happen, but hopefully we can stay a bit healthier in the rotation next year.
Lacking of hitting was a big issue, especially in the first half.
Mets were leading the league in staff ERA (along with Dodgers) and were only a few games above .500.
100% agree. And the big hits they were getting in the first half were often from Peraza, Pillar, Villar, etc.
Dom, Conforto, McNeil had real bad years.