Sometimes when you lose, you really win.
Sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie.
Sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose.
Friends, I would say this was one of those times when we won, but we actually tied with the Eagles for being shitty. Both teams competed to out-suck the other today, the Eagles with their inopportune turnovers and the Giants with their disgusting joke of an offense.
My personal least favorite sequence was the 3 and out after the fumble in the 4th quarter: busted reverse for -12, failed WR screen that hit a lineman in the ass, 3rd and 24 draw to Saquon for -2. All of which used about 9 seconds off the clock. I'll admit I was SURE we were going to lose after that, but hey, we won, right?
I'm just not sure whether to thank the defense or if we were touched by the hand of God today.
Great thread.
But I can’t get behind the thread. No matter what, I’m a fan and will always root for them. I’ll admit a lot of the time when I feel it’s best for them to lose, due to whatever reasons, but will always root for a win
Having said that, against the Eagles? Hell nah. I’ll never in my life complain about beating those dirty fucking scumbags. It makes for a great day
1. Beating the Eagles is fun
2. This team sucks
Both things are true. I can both enjoy the win AND be concerned/exasperated by the state of the franchise at the same time. I guess it's a gift and a curse?
Sorry, but I'm not going to be gaslit into believing that a 6 point win in a game with a +4 turnover differential is something to thankful for.
We did everything in our power to hand the game to them and they refused to take it. Hooray?
I mean, the ball is a prolate spheroid with pointy ends, so yeah, it can bounce in all sorts of unexpected ways. But I'll say this - they would be the worst 7-4 team in NFL history.
Really? Come on. She was a great contestant on Jeopardy. She nailed the category "Foods that start with the letter Q".
White men can’t jump for those of you who got your brains busted
1. Beating the Eagles is fun
2. This team sucks
Both things are true. I can both enjoy the win AND be concerned/exasperated by the state of the franchise at the same time. I guess it's a gift and a curse?
The Jake - this is why I have a thriving therapy practice. :) People love black and white thinking. I mean, so do I. It's natural. It takes work to not be dualistic. Some people want that in their lives, some don't. The Giants are what their record is. Every team is. I love the Giants, but they're rough to get into in recent years. The allure when your team wins is to think everything is good, and when they lose, everything is bad. In reality, really good teams lose, and really bad teams win. If you want to take that a step further, a worse team can beat a better team in the Super Bowl. Giants were certainly a worse team than the 18-0 Patriots. But the worse team won. So does it even matter? Who knows! That victory sure felt good! When people try to oversimplify complicated things, I usually tune them out and certainly don't seek validation on a message board. When people become less dualistic, I'll have to find a different career. Until then...
Drop Mike sound...
1. Beating the Eagles is fun
2. This team sucks
Both things are true. I can both enjoy the win AND be concerned/exasperated by the state of the franchise at the same time. I guess it's a gift and a curse?
I agree with both 1 and 2. And this teams OL really is like a huge smelly #2.
1. Beating the Eagles is fun
2. This team sucks
Both things are true. I can both enjoy the win AND be concerned/exasperated by the state of the franchise at the same time. I guess it's a gift and a curse?
I suppose it's because their hearts and joy get in the way of a more realistic inventory of the current state of affairs.
Your two points are true. My concern is Mara looks upon the state of this football operation too much like a fan, and not enough like a grounded leader. In that respect, wins like today are potentially part of a larger danger.
A BBI favorite phrase to use.
Very original...
Congrats?
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Be happy with that precious victory.
Sorry, but I'm not going to be gaslit into believing that a 6 point win in a game with a +4 turnover differential is something to thankful for.
We did everything in our power to hand the game to them and they refused to take it. Hooray?
Of course the Browns intercepted Lamar 3 times and lost 16-10....and on a flukey, thrown up, semi-hail Mary pass. So there is that.
you could easily be referring to the arguments about our offensive struggles. People cannot come to grips with the idea that more than one thing can be the problem and that changing/fixing just ONE Of those things will result in small improvements.
What he said.
1. Beating the Eagles is fun
2. This team sucks
Both things are true. I can both enjoy the win AND be concerned/exasperated by the state of the franchise at the same time. I guess it's a gift and a curse?
I don't think that anyone that enjoyed beating Philly is suddenly under the impression that the Giants are now a good football team. In fact, most who have expressed how it was a nice win, regardless of it's ugly nature, have stated that the team is not good.
The reason that this reads like projection is that no where in your OP did you suggest that "Beating the Eagles is fun."
Maybe it's not those who enjoyed the win that need to consider holding two opposing thoughts in their heads at the same time.
I'm flattered that you remember that :)
Believe me, we know. And after next week regardless of outcome we'll know then too.
It's not rocket science.
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why some fans are not able to hold two opposing thoughts in their heads at the same time, but it goes like this:
1. Beating the Eagles is fun
2. This team sucks
Both things are true. I can both enjoy the win AND be concerned/exasperated by the state of the franchise at the same time. I guess it's a gift and a curse?
This one reads like projection.
I don't think that anyone that enjoyed beating Philly is suddenly under the impression that the Giants are now a good football team. In fact, most who have expressed how it was a nice win, regardless of it's ugly nature, have stated that the team is not good.
The reason that this reads like projection is that no where in your OP did you suggest that "Beating the Eagles is fun."
Maybe it's not those who enjoyed the win that need to consider holding two opposing thoughts in their heads at the same time.
Based on reading the site today, it seem like many of those that you think "enjoyed the win" really just enjoyed rubbing it in the faces of the fans that have been stating from the beginning that the team is not good.
Thanks for the clarification.
Wins that hold off the tide of season OVER are never bad.
Here's the deal -- until the Giants are mathematically toast wins do in fact matter, especially when it's barely even December. And until the games stop truly counting in the playoff race, the offense has a chance to figure things out in games that matter. Meaning if by some miracle the O can go from bad to kinda bad, maybe even close to average, and win next week, yesterday's win means even more. If the Giants had lost yesterday nothing even really matters anymore. A win next week wouldn't matter, you practically can't even judge things anymore, but we still can. The games still matter. Fucking shut up already. No one is sitting here saying things are great, no one is saying a few wins to 7-10 help in the long run, but we AREN'T at 7-10 yet. Wait it out. Don't tell me ugly wins cannot turn into pretty wins. Would I bet on it? No, but I know we still have 6 games left and a shot at a winning record. Until that possibility goes away...also, the team is getting healthier. Again, i ain't betting on shit, but no one here knows the future no matter how much they love to hear themselves proclaim otherwise.
Can we steal one more and get to 5-7? Don't think it's asking too much. What's wrong with that.
There was a time when beating Philly on the backs of a good D wasn't dissected like this. Just take it and run. We know about all the issues. Worry about the issues when the season ends badly.
That said, it still seems nuts to say that about this team, because they are still not a very good team. I also walked away from yesterday wondering if our D played that well, or if Hurts and Philly just played their worst game of the season. For now, I'm jut happy to get a win. But, eventually they have to win back to back weeks to be taken seriously.
They aren't good enough on O. But guys have been in and out of the lineup literally all season long. Multiple guys. Guys are coming back. See what happens.
- The Giants are a bad team
- When the Giants play other bad teams, it's usually a tossup game
- They'll probably go ~.500 against bad teams
- When the opponent makes many mistakes, the Giants usually win
- When the opponent doesn't make many mistakes, the Giants usually lose
- When the Giants play a good team they almost always lose
It's the same pattern as last year. It's a similar pattern to many other bad teams. And it won't change until we get much better players.
1. This team sneaking into the playoffs and making a run would be amazing and exhilarating and I would love every second of it
2. If that happens, it will set this franchise back in the long run because it will give Mara and DG excuse not to tear down this house of cards
2007 and 2011 spoiled Giants fans into thinking that "any given Sunday" is a business model. I wouldn't trade those two wins for anything and I celebrated as much as you did, but I also wouldn't build my franchise on the blueprints of those two teams. In fact, I'd be aiming to build around the 2008 blueprint, minus the accidental gunshot wound.
Galladay is only now hitting his stride after missing a bunch of games.
Barkley is only now hitting his stride after missing a bunch of games.
Thomas is only now (?) hitting his stride after missing a bunch of games.
Shepard still out. Toney out.
The offense has been behind all year long. Only now is it at least approaching 60-75% full systems go and by next week at least the guys playing have been playing for a few games now.
That might make a difference. IT most definitely does make a difference with most teams.
For me, at this point, it's not even to be taken seriously. That isn't going to happen so quickly. But, it is to just be relevant again; not a laughingstock. To try to start building a more winning culture. As you say, to extend the season was huge. Of course, the start to their season also leaves very little wiggle room for games to remain relevant. But, the rest of the NFC is helping us out. Not as much as our division helped last year, but enough that at 4-7 we are only 1 game out of the WC.
1. This team sneaking into the playoffs and making a run would be amazing and exhilarating and I would love every second of it
2. If that happens, it will set this franchise back in the long run because it will give Mara and DG excuse not to tear down this house of cards
2007 and 2011 spoiled Giants fans into thinking that "any given Sunday" is a business model. I wouldn't trade those two wins for anything and I celebrated as much as you did, but I also wouldn't build my franchise on the blueprints of those two teams. In fact, I'd be aiming to build around the 2008 blueprint, minus the accidental gunshot wound.
Thanks but you lost me at playoff games setting this franchise back.
Cmon dude. I'd KILL for a playoff LOSS right now. I'd kill to be able to say this team got to 9-8 and a playoff game. THat's progress.
We have been drafting high for a decade now. Enough already. Time to win.
And no, I don't think we get to 9-8. But I can still watch the games and hope for another win next week. ONe step at a time.
It's not black and white at all. Matter of fact I preach it constantly. Nothing is black and white. You don't have to jump for joy today no one should, but to me miserable about it seems weird to me. To each their own. Life sucks enough without having to rip apart a win against Philly. We didn't turn the ball over and forced them into 4 while winning. Against Philly. Move on try for another win next week.
Exactly.
You make the playoffs on wins like this. We could have been 5-6 and right in the middle of he chase. One more win and we might be in the middle of that chase.
ONe game a time. LEarn to crawl first. Maybe they learn to walk next. That's not how an idiotic or delusional fan thinks, got news for some of you here.
Just like I have said I took no solace in a loss being close or what some have considered competitive, I also will not disparage them for an "ugly" win. If a loss is a loss, a win is a win and we needed a win.
Because if you think the answer is the fumble, remember, we gave the ball right back to them 20 seconds later and Hurts wasn't able to drive them down the field for the win. Their final drive ended in a series of incompletions. There's no "big play" in there that sealed the win for us.
That is sort of the premise of this thread. We only won because the Eagles weren't good enough to take the game from us. Not because we took it from them.
Doesn’t this work in the reveres too? We lose close games it’s because we fucked up, but when other teams hand us a game we deserved it.
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It's because we're a losing team, and we deserve it but when we make the big plays to win a game we're....lucky and it's not a real win? Alrighty then. The only thing more miserable than rooting for the Giants lately is reading a bunch of the posts in here.
Stu - I don't think I fall into the category of saying all wins or good plays are lucky. However, I do fall into the category of not finding moral victories or optimism in the close losses. This is because I can no longer look at 1 game in a bubble given the overwhelming recent history of losing. My take is that they lose so many of those games because they (players and coaches) don't know how to win them, can't win them, and/or don't believe they can win them (or expect not to). That's why I am HOPING that yesterday is a big step away. It was an ugly win. But, it was still a win where the opposition was within a score and could have won it on their last possession. This team needed to win a game like that. It is one they have lost so many times over the last several years.
Just like I have said I took no solace in a loss being close or what some have considered competitive, I also will not disparage them for an "ugly" win. If a loss is a loss, a win is a win and we needed a win.
Definitely Matt. My post wasn't aimed at you. I agree a win is a win and a loss is a loss. Bad teams lose close games because they make key mistakes and know how to lose. I harbor no illusions that we are good. We need huge changes obviously. We have more needs than any cap room or draft picks can fix right now. I mean geez even our punter sucks.
Because if you think the answer is the fumble, remember, we gave the ball right back to them 20 seconds later and Hurts wasn't able to drive them down the field for the win. Their final drive ended in a series of incompletions. There's no "big play" in there that sealed the win for us.
That is sort of the premise of this thread. We only won because the Eagles weren't good enough to take the game from us. Not because we took it from them.
Ummm 2 takeaways in the red zone? That fumble wasn't luck, we punched it out. The play calling afterwards was horrific and the fact that our Online is the worst in the NFL kills us but at least we killed their 3 time outs so it put a lousy throwing QB in desperation mode. Listen like I said we are a bad football team. We need big changes but the Eagles have piled up the points the past month and we held them to 7. The big plays on D were made by kids, so maybe there is some hope to take out of it and give the misery a rest for a day or two.
But fuck the Eagles and fuck the Cowboys. I'll take a W against those two teams any time, regardless of the circumstances.
Being happy about that kind of win doesn’t last very long before you start to analyze the game a bit.
They’ve been on the field for 1-2 weeks straight and came out of this game healthy. Better than being fresh off the IR and on the field for the first time in months, you do acknowledge that right?
Or am I not allowed to offer up any shred of hope. Sorry if that annoys some of you.