I promise you.
By Ryan Wilson
Here are the Top 8 picks with the Giants in the 6 & 7 hole.
Put aside the Giants never getting a sniff of Aidan Hutchinson (who goes #1 to Detroit), and put aside the Jets snagging Thibodeaux and Evan Neal with the two picks right in front of us.
Just consider this: the Giants select -- WHAT? -- two more guys for the secondary! Why? Because we are all set along the O-Line and EDGE, whereas our back line needs a massive new infusion of talent?
That's not a remote-thrower. That's a flame thrower:
1 Detroit Aidan Hutchinson DE Michigan
2 Houston Matt Corral QB Ole Miss
3 Jacksonville Ikem Ekwonu OT NC State
4 Jets Kayvon Thibodeaux DE Oregon
5 Jets Evan Neal OL Alabama
6 Giants Kyle Hamilton S Notre Dame
7 Giants Derek Stingley Jr CB LSU
8 Washington Kenyon Green OL Texas A& M
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In which case, wouldn’t it be better to bail on both picks and maybe end up with 3 first rounders and an extra second? Or something like that?
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but those are two AWESOME secondary players. They would be better from a value perspective than anyone that would follow them.
In which case, wouldn’t it be better to bail on both picks and maybe end up with 3 first rounders and an extra second? Or something like that?
We passed on Parson, I mean at some point we need to just draft the great player in front of you.
I don't see that way at all.
BPA is part myth and is highly variable depending on team needs. And the very last thing this miserable franchise needs is to draft players away from the LOS.
Hamilton and Stingley will be on the field all day long with no O-line and no pass rush.
Have me laughing with that one! (:-)
Interestingly, Willis and Ridder are going to play in the Senior Bowl. Teams needing QB's will be scouting those 2 heavily.
It is never wrong IMHO, to draft BPA don't reach.
Look at Dallas last 2 drafts,Lamb and Parsons there for the taking.
Be true to your draft board....
Look at the former ND players in the league now. There are a lot of solid players but few first round superstars. ND produces a lot of skilled, smart players - just not supermen.
Look at the former ND players in the league now. There are a lot of solid players but few first round superstars. ND produces a lot of skilled, smart players - just not supermen.
Quentin Nelson has entered the chat
Look at the former ND players in the league now. There are a lot of solid players but few first round superstars. ND produces a lot of skilled, smart players - just not supermen.
Just off the top of my head:
Quentin Nelson
Zack Martin
Ronnie Stanley
Harrison Smith
Those are some of the best players in the NFL at their positions. Some of them future Hall of Famers. Supermen.
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10 of the 1st round.
Look at the former ND players in the league now. There are a lot of solid players but few first round superstars. ND produces a lot of skilled, smart players - just not supermen.
Quentin Nelson has entered the chat
LOL.
If the draft fell this way, it would be very unlucky for the Giants in terms of picking players specifically in those spots. Because in this scenario, Stingley and Hamilton do appear to be the clear-cut BPA, and pretty much the end of the blue-chip talent in this draft.
That said, it could also be VERY lucky for the Giants. Either/both of those guys being available should fetch very strong trade offers for those picks. And if the Giants are not sold on a QB this year (understandable) but want to keep their options open for 2023, this would present a really nice opportunity to get some additional red-chip talent this year a bit further down in the 1st round, but be really loaded up with picks in 2023 so that they can go get anyone they want next year without having to tank in order to do so.
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Will you also not hate our OL and pass rush being just as bad next year as it is this year. Asking for a friend.
If the draft fell this way, it would be very unlucky for the Giants in terms of picking players specifically in those spots. Because in this scenario, Stingley and Hamilton do appear to be the clear-cut BPA, and pretty much the end of the blue-chip talent in this draft.
That said, it could also be VERY lucky for the Giants. Either/both of those guys being available should fetch very strong trade offers for those picks. And if the Giants are not sold on a QB this year (understandable) but want to keep their options open for 2023, this would present a really nice opportunity to get some additional red-chip talent this year a bit further down in the 1st round, but be really loaded up with picks in 2023 so that they can go get anyone they want next year without having to tank in order to do so.
exactly.. at least there are blue chippers still on the board. The Giants can either add these great talents or trade down and accumulate a mini-haul.
Or who knows, the board always shifts around the time of the combine. What you see now may not be how it shakes out.
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Will you also not hate our OL and pass rush being just as bad next year as it is this year. Asking for a friend.
If the draft fell this way, it would be very unlucky for the Giants in terms of picking players specifically in those spots. Because in this scenario, Stingley and Hamilton do appear to be the clear-cut BPA, and pretty much the end of the blue-chip talent in this draft.
That said, it could also be VERY lucky for the Giants. Either/both of those guys being available should fetch very strong trade offers for those picks. And if the Giants are not sold on a QB this year (understandable) but want to keep their options open for 2023, this would present a really nice opportunity to get some additional red-chip talent this year a bit further down in the 1st round, but be really loaded up with picks in 2023 so that they can go get anyone they want next year without having to tank in order to do so.
Trading down in the Mock Draft is the way to go. For sure.
But neither of our top picks help our two greatest weaknesses.
I'd come around ... but man, that would feel shitty to me the rest of the night as OL and DE get drafted and raved about AFTER we've picked.
Good thing mocks largely are a mockery.
Interestingly, Willis and Ridder are going to play in the Senior Bowl. Teams needing QB's will be scouting those 2 heavily.
It is never wrong IMHO, to draft BPA don't reach.
Look at Dallas last 2 drafts,Lamb and Parsons there for the taking.
Be true to your draft board....
Not to mention the Giants will have a new GM in place before the draft and we hacve no idea which way the new GM will be thinking
Don't get worked up over meaningless things.
Don't get worked up over meaningless things.
You make an important point, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows these Mock Drafts will spin around for the next 5 months. This is all harmless hypothetical stuff just so we can generate a general discussion about the Giants Draft.
I don't care how good Hamilton plays in the NFL, there is no justification for picking a Safety in the top half of the draft. Giants should pick ER or RT as that would be better value at 6/7 than a Safety who would be fighting for play time with Logan, Love, and McKinney.
I really hope they are able to trade down with one of the two number picks. Draft your OL in round 2 and later.
Get the QB next year. Have a young very good defense in place. Add to the OL every year.
You could make a case that Kenyon Green is almost as good a prospect. Almost.
The pass rushers available at that part of the draft are NOT the BPAs.
Trading down is the play here — if you can find a partner.
If you want to go defense, take a player like Devin Lloyd. That guy is a stud at LB. A true three down, sideline to sideline force.
I like Booth and Stingley alot- think they can be #1 corners and all pro caliber players. The Giants also come from the NE mindset on defense, which values corners who can play man to man coverage.
With Bradberry's regression, there is a lot of uncertainty at the CB spot in 2022 and beyond.
A couple of thoughts though. First people don't want to get hung up on positions, especially when we are talking about top 10 picks. In fact, it starts to grow on me when I see they are the #1 and #3 guys on their board. (And yeah it didn't work out so well with Saquon, but at the same time we sort of okay with LT and Carl Banks. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. That's the draft.)
In a similar vein I see a number of references to 'next year.' Giants aren't going to win the Super Bowl this year and they aren't going to win it next year, so to me what you want to be doing is bringing in guys who are going to hopefully help you win a championship down the road and not just plug a leak for the immediate future.
Hamilton (aka Williams??) is a really interesting guy who really defies a 'position' pigeon-hole. He's almost 225, but runs - and covers - like a CB; you can bring him up into the box in your 4-2 for example and play him at LB. I have been working on some general draft thoughts which I hope to post fairly soon and one of them is that if you get a shot at a really good player who doesn't quite fit your scheme, draft him and adjust the scheme to fit his skills! Kind of a novel concept.
The other general comment I have is re the OL. Obviously, the Giants have to try again this off-season. However, I am growing increasingly skeptical about the efficiency of using the draft to do especially when you have a) a real pressing need and b) multiple positions to fill. Fact is that even a top 10 pick has only about a 50% probability of ever being a good player and personally I just don't like those odds for a position you just have to address. And when you need 3-4 guys, to give yourself a chance, you'd almost have to use all your picks this year to beat the actual odds.
I kind of looked around the league at some teams that have done major rebuilds on their - eg KC - and for the most part they seem to do it with veterans, mid-priced free agents and trades. Every player a team acquires - vet or pick - has a bust quotient, but I would expect the probability that you get a competent vet that way is way higher than a rookie.
In that sense I wonder if the Giants might consider dangling their 2nd or 3rd round picks out there especially looking for a RT upgrade. In the meantime, as Rick suggests there is still a ton of sorting out to do.
Except those are blue chip players...
Much appreciate your thoughts/insights! Always an interesting read!
Amen.
Arnie: Agree 100% that in all likelihood the Giants head into the draft, or at least the process, with a DE and a RT as their #1 targets. What do you do though if you get on the clock with a top 10 pick and there are no DEs or OTs worth that high a pick. And yeah its nice to say trade down but teams don't usually give up much for non-QBs. Interesting dilemma.
And I'm not going to waste my time or yours arguing BPA or position when in fact we have no idea where the Giants are actually going to pick or who ultimately will be there when they do pick. Just a couple of comments re your examples though. Referring to Saquon and Odell in that regard is disingenuous. Fact is both guys were terrific players before they got hurt. Saquon was ROY and we tend to forget just how good Odell was in 2014-2016 before he got hurt: 96 catches per year, almost 1,400 yards and 12 TDs per as he almost single-handedly turned what was a 30th ranked offense into a top 10 unit. But then he got hurt! Its the NFL: shit happens.
The other thing I would note is that by your logic we take RB Freeman McNeill over LT in 1981 and WR Kenny Jackson over Banks in 1984 and in all likelihood just gave away our first two Super Bowls!
Esp when a tackle is avail right after we picked per this draft.
Well, at least all plays will be in front of our secondary, and just behind our DL because our LBs are marginal, on a good day, so dink and dunk guarantees teams March down the field, control TOP, and Garrett’s curl routes will kill us for 17 games.
Oh how I love that mock.