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CBS.com Mock Draft (11/29): This one will drive you crazy

M.S. : 11/29/2021 9:03 am

I promise you.

By Ryan Wilson

Here are the Top 8 picks with the Giants in the 6 & 7 hole.

Put aside the Giants never getting a sniff of Aidan Hutchinson (who goes #1 to Detroit), and put aside the Jets snagging Thibodeaux and Evan Neal with the two picks right in front of us.

Just consider this: the Giants select -- WHAT? -- two more guys for the secondary! Why? Because we are all set along the O-Line and EDGE, whereas our back line needs a massive new infusion of talent?

That's not a remote-thrower. That's a flame thrower:

1 Detroit Aidan Hutchinson DE Michigan
2 Houston Matt Corral QB Ole Miss
3 Jacksonville Ikem Ekwonu OT NC State
4 Jets Kayvon Thibodeaux DE Oregon
5 Jets Evan Neal OL Alabama
6 Giants Kyle Hamilton S Notre Dame
7 Giants Derek Stingley Jr CB LSU
8 Washington Kenyon Green OL Texas A& M

Link - ( New Window )
I understand  
BigBlueJ : 11/29/2021 9:06 am : link
but those are two AWESOME secondary players. They would be better from a value perspective than anyone that would follow them.
Stingley is going to be a great player  
jvm52106 : 11/29/2021 9:09 am : link
and depending on where we are at and what was selected ahead of us, that might be a steal.
Nothing Against Either Player  
Bernie : 11/29/2021 9:09 am : link
But if the draft fell this way, it would be typical of the Giants luck the last decade
Damn  
JB_in_DC : 11/29/2021 9:16 am : link
the era of seeing Hutch come to NYG in mocks seems to have come to a close. Interesting to see Ekwonu jump Neal.
Shades of 1996, but at least the two picks have four eyes between them  
Big Blue Blogger : 11/29/2021 9:17 am : link
A team as bad as the Giants really does need to go BPA. Bradberry, Ryan and Jackson won't be here forever, and Peppers is probably gone already. Might make sense to trade down, though, if the clear BPAs are DBs.
looks like BPA  
gogiants : 11/29/2021 9:18 am : link
The Giants need elite players. Those two are. Drafting that high should walk away with elite. Instead of drafting lesser players for position.
RE: I understand  
M.S. : 11/29/2021 9:19 am : link
In comment 15471792 BigBlueJ said:
Quote:
but those are two AWESOME secondary players. They would be better from a value perspective than anyone that would follow them.

In which case, wouldn’t it be better to bail on both picks and maybe end up with 3 first rounders and an extra second? Or something like that?
3 QB's taken in the top 13  
Rick in Dallas : 11/29/2021 9:21 am : link
Once again teams overdrafting QB's. I would hate seeing Karlaftis drafted by the Cowboys.
I don't hate it  
Anakim : 11/29/2021 9:22 am : link
We'd be taking the two BPAs
RE: RE: I understand  
BigBlueJ : 11/29/2021 9:29 am : link
In comment 15471821 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 15471792 BigBlueJ said:


Quote:


but those are two AWESOME secondary players. They would be better from a value perspective than anyone that would follow them.


In which case, wouldn’t it be better to bail on both picks and maybe end up with 3 first rounders and an extra second? Or something like that?


We passed on Parson, I mean at some point we need to just draft the great player in front of you.
For those who don’t hate that draft  
BillT : 11/29/2021 9:30 am : link
Will you also not hate our OL and pass rush being just as bad next year as it is this year. Asking for a friend.
RE: I don't hate it  
M.S. : 11/29/2021 9:31 am : link
In comment 15471826 Anakim said:
Quote:
We'd be taking the two BPAs

I don't see that way at all.

BPA is part myth and is highly variable depending on team needs. And the very last thing this miserable franchise needs is to draft players away from the LOS.

Hamilton and Stingley will be on the field all day long with no O-line and no pass rush.
RE: For those who don’t hate that draft  
M.S. : 11/29/2021 9:33 am : link
In comment 15471839 BillT said:
Quote:
Will you also not hate our OL and pass rush being just as bad next year as it is this year. Asking for a friend.

Have me laughing with that one! (:-)
A lot is going to change between now and the actual draft  
Rick in Dallas : 11/29/2021 9:35 am : link
Prospects staying in school and prospects coming out early.
Interestingly, Willis and Ridder are going to play in the Senior Bowl. Teams needing QB's will be scouting those 2 heavily.
It is never wrong IMHO, to draft BPA don't reach.
Look at Dallas last 2 drafts,Lamb and Parsons there for the taking.
Be true to your draft board....
Notre Dame players are always overrated. Never pick one in the top  
Ivan15 : 11/29/2021 9:35 am : link
10 of the 1st round.

Look at the former ND players in the league now. There are a lot of solid players but few first round superstars. ND produces a lot of skilled, smart players - just not supermen.
RE: Notre Dame players are always overrated. Never pick one in the top  
jestersdead : 11/29/2021 9:41 am : link
In comment 15471854 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
10 of the 1st round.

Look at the former ND players in the league now. There are a lot of solid players but few first round superstars. ND produces a lot of skilled, smart players - just not supermen.


Quentin Nelson has entered the chat
RE: Notre Dame players are always overrated. Never pick one in the top  
BigBlueShock : 11/29/2021 9:44 am : link
In comment 15471854 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
10 of the 1st round.

Look at the former ND players in the league now. There are a lot of solid players but few first round superstars. ND produces a lot of skilled, smart players - just not supermen.

Just off the top of my head:
Quentin Nelson
Zack Martin
Ronnie Stanley
Harrison Smith

Those are some of the best players in the NFL at their positions. Some of them future Hall of Famers. Supermen.
RE: RE: Notre Dame players are always overrated. Never pick one in the top  
Harvest Blend : 11/29/2021 9:45 am : link
In comment 15471862 jestersdead said:
Quote:
In comment 15471854 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


10 of the 1st round.

Look at the former ND players in the league now. There are a lot of solid players but few first round superstars. ND produces a lot of skilled, smart players - just not supermen.



Quentin Nelson has entered the chat


LOL.
RE: For those who don’t hate that draft  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/29/2021 9:59 am : link
In comment 15471839 BillT said:
Quote:
Will you also not hate our OL and pass rush being just as bad next year as it is this year. Asking for a friend.

If the draft fell this way, it would be very unlucky for the Giants in terms of picking players specifically in those spots. Because in this scenario, Stingley and Hamilton do appear to be the clear-cut BPA, and pretty much the end of the blue-chip talent in this draft.

That said, it could also be VERY lucky for the Giants. Either/both of those guys being available should fetch very strong trade offers for those picks. And if the Giants are not sold on a QB this year (understandable) but want to keep their options open for 2023, this would present a really nice opportunity to get some additional red-chip talent this year a bit further down in the 1st round, but be really loaded up with picks in 2023 so that they can go get anyone they want next year without having to tank in order to do so.
RE: RE: For those who don’t hate that draft  
Producer : 11/29/2021 10:07 am : link
In comment 15471905 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15471839 BillT said:


Quote:


Will you also not hate our OL and pass rush being just as bad next year as it is this year. Asking for a friend.


If the draft fell this way, it would be very unlucky for the Giants in terms of picking players specifically in those spots. Because in this scenario, Stingley and Hamilton do appear to be the clear-cut BPA, and pretty much the end of the blue-chip talent in this draft.

That said, it could also be VERY lucky for the Giants. Either/both of those guys being available should fetch very strong trade offers for those picks. And if the Giants are not sold on a QB this year (understandable) but want to keep their options open for 2023, this would present a really nice opportunity to get some additional red-chip talent this year a bit further down in the 1st round, but be really loaded up with picks in 2023 so that they can go get anyone they want next year without having to tank in order to do so.


exactly.. at least there are blue chippers still on the board. The Giants can either add these great talents or trade down and accumulate a mini-haul.

Or who knows, the board always shifts around the time of the combine. What you see now may not be how it shakes out.

RE: RE: For those who don’t hate that draft  
M.S. : 11/29/2021 10:07 am : link
In comment 15471905 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15471839 BillT said:


Quote:


Will you also not hate our OL and pass rush being just as bad next year as it is this year. Asking for a friend.


If the draft fell this way, it would be very unlucky for the Giants in terms of picking players specifically in those spots. Because in this scenario, Stingley and Hamilton do appear to be the clear-cut BPA, and pretty much the end of the blue-chip talent in this draft.

That said, it could also be VERY lucky for the Giants. Either/both of those guys being available should fetch very strong trade offers for those picks. And if the Giants are not sold on a QB this year (understandable) but want to keep their options open for 2023, this would present a really nice opportunity to get some additional red-chip talent this year a bit further down in the 1st round, but be really loaded up with picks in 2023 so that they can go get anyone they want next year without having to tank in order to do so.

Trading down in the Mock Draft is the way to go. For sure.
I would hate it.  
Beezer : 11/29/2021 10:13 am : link
Fine. The consolation is that we have a great stable of DBs. Which we already have. But OK.

But neither of our top picks help our two greatest weaknesses.

I'd come around ... but man, that would feel shitty to me the rest of the night as OL and DE get drafted and raved about AFTER we've picked.

Good thing mocks largely are a mockery.
And if we trade both #1's and next years for Russell Wilson  
gtt350 : 11/29/2021 10:27 am : link
it could be the end of BBI
Hey Beez good to see you  
gtt350 : 11/29/2021 10:28 am : link
.
RE: A lot is going to change between now and the actual draft  
LTIsTheGreatest : 11/29/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15471853 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Prospects staying in school and prospects coming out early.
Interestingly, Willis and Ridder are going to play in the Senior Bowl. Teams needing QB's will be scouting those 2 heavily.
It is never wrong IMHO, to draft BPA don't reach.
Look at Dallas last 2 drafts,Lamb and Parsons there for the taking.
Be true to your draft board....


Not to mention the Giants will have a new GM in place before the draft and we hacve no idea which way the new GM will be thinking
I might commit  
djm : 11/29/2021 10:44 am : link
a felony if the Giants did that. And I am the first one to scoff when someone gets mad when the Giants don't draft a position they want. That would infuriate me, and I also want DEFENSE in the draft so yeah, i'm a hypocrite I guess.
This is the danger  
JonC : 11/29/2021 10:48 am : link
of winning 6 games as a bad football team and missing out on the blue chip talent NYG desperately needs.
Half the players listed won't be ranked in the top 10  
ZogZerg : 11/29/2021 10:52 am : link
By the time the draft is here.

Don't get worked up over meaningless things.
RE: Half the players listed won't be ranked in the top 10  
M.S. : 11/29/2021 11:08 am : link
In comment 15472012 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
By the time the draft is here.

Don't get worked up over meaningless things.

You make an important point, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows these Mock Drafts will spin around for the next 5 months. This is all harmless hypothetical stuff just so we can generate a general discussion about the Giants Draft.
Getting Wilson would be akin to giants getting Larry Csonka back in  
MartyNJ1969 : 11/29/2021 12:02 pm : link
1978. Csonka has nothing left.
No issue with picking CB at #6 or #7  
kdog77 : 11/29/2021 12:14 pm : link
It is a premium position in the NFL and you can never have enough good DBs in a passing league. Despite investing multiple premium picks on CB over the past few years, the Giants still need to sign FAs and rely on PS players to fill out their secondary over the year. The Giants and Pats invest in the secondary b/c elite NFL offenses have 3 or 4 pass catchers that can outrun the average NFL LB.

I don't care how good Hamilton plays in the NFL, there is no justification for picking a Safety in the top half of the draft. Giants should pick ER or RT as that would be better value at 6/7 than a Safety who would be fighting for play time with Logan, Love, and McKinney.
I'd like a defensive draft  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/29/2021 12:37 pm : link
BPA. They need a elite corner. I would not mind the safety but I think a DT and two LB's are also needed.

I really hope they are able to trade down with one of the two number picks. Draft your OL in round 2 and later.

Get the QB next year. Have a young very good defense in place. Add to the OL every year.
A few thoughts:  
81_Great_Dane : 11/29/2021 12:49 pm : link
Those are the BPAs. If you're in full rebuild mode, that's what you do.

You could make a case that Kenyon Green is almost as good a prospect. Almost.

The pass rushers available at that part of the draft are NOT the BPAs.

Trading down is the play here — if you can find a partner.
That draft would make me ill...  
bw in dc : 11/29/2021 12:54 pm : link
Spending a lottery pick on a S is just daft - unless someone can convince me Williams is the second coming of Reed.

If you want to go defense, take a player like Devin Lloyd. That guy is a stud at LB. A true three down, sideline to sideline force.
Like the Iowa Center and Karlafatis  
ghost718 : 11/29/2021 12:56 pm : link
Stingley is a little overrated,and I'd let someone else take that Notre Dame safety with a high pick.
I'm not completely opposed to a Corner  
Breeze_94 : 11/29/2021 2:15 pm : link
with one of the first rounders.

I like Booth and Stingley alot- think they can be #1 corners and all pro caliber players. The Giants also come from the NE mindset on defense, which values corners who can play man to man coverage.

With Bradberry's regression, there is a lot of uncertainty at the CB spot in 2022 and beyond.
Draft thoughts  
Colin@gbn : 11/29/2021 3:35 pm : link
Interesting mock M.S. In several of the mocks I have been playing with recently Hamilton and/or Stingley were available when the Giants were picking especially when you get a QB or two in there. And yes unfortunately I have come to grieve that it is very likely Michigan's Hutchinson will also be gone before the Giants pick.

A couple of thoughts though. First people don't want to get hung up on positions, especially when we are talking about top 10 picks. In fact, it starts to grow on me when I see they are the #1 and #3 guys on their board. (And yeah it didn't work out so well with Saquon, but at the same time we sort of okay with LT and Carl Banks. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. That's the draft.)

In a similar vein I see a number of references to 'next year.' Giants aren't going to win the Super Bowl this year and they aren't going to win it next year, so to me what you want to be doing is bringing in guys who are going to hopefully help you win a championship down the road and not just plug a leak for the immediate future.

Hamilton (aka Williams??) is a really interesting guy who really defies a 'position' pigeon-hole. He's almost 225, but runs - and covers - like a CB; you can bring him up into the box in your 4-2 for example and play him at LB. I have been working on some general draft thoughts which I hope to post fairly soon and one of them is that if you get a shot at a really good player who doesn't quite fit your scheme, draft him and adjust the scheme to fit his skills! Kind of a novel concept.

The other general comment I have is re the OL. Obviously, the Giants have to try again this off-season. However, I am growing increasingly skeptical about the efficiency of using the draft to do especially when you have a) a real pressing need and b) multiple positions to fill. Fact is that even a top 10 pick has only about a 50% probability of ever being a good player and personally I just don't like those odds for a position you just have to address. And when you need 3-4 guys, to give yourself a chance, you'd almost have to use all your picks this year to beat the actual odds.

I kind of looked around the league at some teams that have done major rebuilds on their - eg KC - and for the most part they seem to do it with veterans, mid-priced free agents and trades. Every player a team acquires - vet or pick - has a bust quotient, but I would expect the probability that you get a competent vet that way is way higher than a rookie.

In that sense I wonder if the Giants might consider dangling their 2nd or 3rd round picks out there especially looking for a RT upgrade. In the meantime, as Rick suggests there is still a ton of sorting out to do.
RE: This is the danger  
section125 : 11/29/2021 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15472001 JonC said:
Quote:
of winning 6 games as a bad football team and missing out on the blue chip talent NYG desperately needs.


Except those are blue chip players...
Colin@gbn  
M.S. : 11/29/2021 6:24 pm : link

Much appreciate your thoughts/insights! Always an interesting read!
I'll bet that's not going to be the draft order  
arniefez : 11/29/2021 7:26 pm : link
5 months from now. I'd hate it. The Giants need the best OL & DL/Edge they can draft with those high picks. Let's learn from taking Barkley over Nelson because it was too soon in the draft for a guard or Beckham over Aaron Donald and Zack Martin. OL or DL/Edge BPA with the 3 first picks or trade back. No trade ups too many holes to give away picks.
RE: I'll bet that's not going to be the draft order  
M.S. : 11/29/2021 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15473253 arniefez said:
Quote:
5 months from now. I'd hate it. The Giants need the best OL & DL/Edge they can draft with those high picks. Let's learn from taking Barkley over Nelson because it was too soon in the draft for a guard or Beckham over Aaron Donald and Zack Martin. OL or DL/Edge BPA with the 3 first picks or trade back. No trade ups too many holes to give away picks.

Amen.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/29/2021 7:43 pm : link
People pissing on the Hamilton pick haven't watched a lot of ND. In all likelihood, even in that mock, I think he's gone before 6.
RE: I'll bet that's not going to be the draft order  
Colin@gbn : 11/29/2021 8:12 pm : link
In comment 15473253 arniefez said:
Quote:
5 months from now. I'd hate it. The Giants need the best OL & DL/Edge they can draft with those high picks. Let's learn from taking Barkley over Nelson because it was too soon in the draft for a guard or Beckham over Aaron Donald and Zack Martin. OL or DL/Edge BPA with the 3 first picks or trade back. No trade ups too many holes to give away picks.


Arnie: Agree 100% that in all likelihood the Giants head into the draft, or at least the process, with a DE and a RT as their #1 targets. What do you do though if you get on the clock with a top 10 pick and there are no DEs or OTs worth that high a pick. And yeah its nice to say trade down but teams don't usually give up much for non-QBs. Interesting dilemma.

And I'm not going to waste my time or yours arguing BPA or position when in fact we have no idea where the Giants are actually going to pick or who ultimately will be there when they do pick. Just a couple of comments re your examples though. Referring to Saquon and Odell in that regard is disingenuous. Fact is both guys were terrific players before they got hurt. Saquon was ROY and we tend to forget just how good Odell was in 2014-2016 before he got hurt: 96 catches per year, almost 1,400 yards and 12 TDs per as he almost single-handedly turned what was a 30th ranked offense into a top 10 unit. But then he got hurt! Its the NFL: shit happens.

The other thing I would note is that by your logic we take RB Freeman McNeill over LT in 1981 and WR Kenny Jackson over Banks in 1984 and in all likelihood just gave away our first two Super Bowls!
LOL...  
BillKo : 11/29/2021 8:39 pm : link
...well I doubt our new GM would simply take two secondary positions.

Esp when a tackle is avail right after we picked per this draft.

Lock down secondary.  
Joe Beckwith : 11/30/2021 12:14 am : link
Then ER and OL with the 38 or 39, 70 or 71 and whatever the Miami pick is (75?) in the 3rd round. Just coach em up.

Well, at least all plays will be in front of our secondary, and just behind our DL because our LBs are marginal, on a good day, so dink and dunk guarantees teams March down the field, control TOP, and Garrett’s curl routes will kill us for 17 games.
Oh how I love that mock.
Listen if the top edges are gone and the top  
Carl in CT : 11/30/2021 12:28 am : link
2 OL are gone, there will be huge interest in the corner and safety. Move down again and stock pile picks and build your team that way. You don’t think the eagles are happy with three picks in top 14 currently or the jets at #4 & #5? They have draft power to do anything the want and will do us no favors.
But if this is Ed Reed  
Carl in CT : 11/30/2021 12:31 am : link
And Dion Sanders then who would complain
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