Who the Big anti-Jones guys are promoting and I will keep a record of this and follow that person next year.
Bw
Terps
Debaser
Other big hate Jones guys…..let us know who is so great that you are coveting?
and that would prove absolutely nothing. Jones would still be an awful QB and not worth a half a decade of patience.
No, it would prove something….it would prove all you loud mouths don’t know anything except to bitch moan and complain.
For instance, are these Jones Haters prepared to hate on Trevor Lawrence? Why not? Look at his numbers….
The reason they won’t hate on him is because they are willing to give him more time for Jax to surround him with better talent. But these Jones haters made up their mind very early in Jones career. Some after one season, some after the second season. They don’t care about his surrounding talent….and none of them want him to succeed because it would make them look stupid.
So yeah….I’m taking notes on the Jones haters to see who they want to be our QB next year so I can keep reminding them how their guy is doing. But I suppose few if any of those guys will want to go on record….they are more critics than fans. You only hear from them when something is going poorly.
So Producer, who do you want to qb our boys next year?
2. I would like the Giants to use one of their two first round picks on Matt Corral of Ole Miss.
3. Alternatively I like Malik Cunningham out of Louisville. He may be available on day 2. See linked article below.
4. I think Russell Wilson has several years of good football left in him and I would be happy to trade for him - I just don't know how the Giants swing it with their cap situation.
5. I don't expect anything past 5 years for any draft pick. Link - ( New Window )
I do not watch College Football so I have no idea about anyone in CFB
but I am terrified of forcing a 1st round QB pick, especially if it requires trading both the present 2022 #1s. I think the OL needs to be fixed at all costs. A 1st round OL, 2nd round G and an average to above vet FA OL should be a marked improvement on the OL. I would like to see them use the other 1st round pick on a DL/LB. Bringing in a rookie with this line is going to be a disaster all over again and a stopgap vet like, Trubisky, Mariotta, Minshew isn't going to play any better than Jones. A team strong along both lines with an average QB has a far better chance to win than does one with this OL and any QB short of maybe Rodgers
I would do it like the Raiders did with Derek Carr and basically let whomever is available of Ridder or Willis in Round 2 fall to them, but if they have a conviction on a guy I am not against a trade up to late Round 1 to get 5th year option. I agree with Sy and others that guys like Willis you do not want playing at all in 2022 unless it is on gimmick plays.
The only QB in 2022 Draft who looks ready to play Week 1 of the season is Pickett IMHO, but I just don't see more than Tannehill/Cousins upside. Corral could play at some point in 2022, but not Week 1, and where he is being mocked now is way too high for what he is worth IMHO. Corral is a Top 15-20 pick at best, not a Top 5 guy.
Not sure who is available on FA market.
I said above that Ridder is growing on me. His size, athleticism, and arm are all plus territory. And he's grown every year as the starter.
There is fat to trim form his game, but I think there is a high ceiling for dvelopment.
I'd resign Jones to a moderate contract... he still has a lot to prove but keeping someone who has been in the offense is easier than bringing in a vet who has to start from scratch.
I haven't watched enough film to make a judgement on the QBs coming out this year but I'd much rather build both sides of the line long before taking a QB.
I'd only take OL/DL for most of this years draft picks. Maybe throw in a RB or WR at the end if they're compelling enough. Rachaad White caught my eye the other day.
As painful as it would be to go into another year with Jones/Glennon we are too far away from a playoff push for it to really matter next year.
If we can build up the lines this offseason maybe make a push for a QB in 2023 depending how Jones does.
Prefer for the time being a Cap Friendly Free Agent as we rebuild this roster (Like a Minshew) and look at the draft in 2023 or 2024.
The Giants should have been all in on that Minshew trade, but they probably didn't want to hurt the QB's feelings. I wouldn't be surprised if he's starting for Philly at some point.
are all question marks. Pickett is probably the safest. Coral and Willis are not going to come in and play lights out in year 1. They are very high ceiling guys though and for a team looking to take a guy a year or too before they need him would be a good pick.
In my opinion even if you draft a top QB Jones is most likely the starter next year.
And niether of these guys is Deshaun watson or Lamar Jackson. They were both big time college QBs that finished in the top 3 of the heisman race twice with Lamar winning one. And Watson was a champion coming out.
I'm on record as saying they should and will stick with Jones for next year. It never makes sense to me to go the veteran QB route. I don't see any franchise type QB prospects for this draft, but I'll admit I haven't watched a ton of college football this year. Would like to continue to build/rebuild the team with Jones for the time being.
I have watched a lot of college this year and I’m sticking with DJ too.
FWIW: The Last Two Times Giants Traded Big for Vet QBs
Fran Tarkenton (67-71) Cost, two #1s, two #2s. Results: 1967, 7-7; 1968, 7-7, 1969, 6-8, 1970-9-5. 1971, 4-10. Tarkenton checked out on the Giants in his last year, was a pain-in-the-ass diva and forced a trade back to the Vikings.
Craig Morton (1974-76), Cost, a #1 and a #2. (note Cowboys used the #1 to draft Randy White). Results, 1974, 2-12, 1975, 5-9, 1976, 3-11(Morton benched mid-year), total, 29TDs, 49 INTs.
Given the state of the Giants O-line, and the likely cost in draft capital, how much better to do you think Russell Wilson would do?
The Tarkenton and Morton trades set the Giants back a decade. "Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it."
then they say the picks have to be used on the lines.
Isn't that forcing picks?
So Terps, who do you want to qb the Giants next year? I haven’t seen your answer yet. Is this question above your pay grade? I know this question is asking you for your input, not your criticism, which is not what you usually do.
then they say the picks have to be used on the lines.
Isn't that forcing picks?
No, forcing a pick is taking a QB high just to do so, when said QB may not be the value of the pick- ie, overdrafted. Where we are picking the Oline choices are 1st rd oline picks, it is just a matter of OL vs another position.
I agree on Corral being the only QB I would want in Rd 1 BUT, nowhere near the top of the draft though.. Their are Edge and OL guys all better picks (based on their talent and projection) that would be far better for us.
I want the Giants to move on from Jones after 2022
They can't cut him without it costing them 8M cap dollars. Hopefully they pass on his option and 2022 is his last chance with the Giants. If he all of sudden turns into a very good QB they can franchise him or extend him. If he doesn't he can leave as a free agent.
I want a 2022 QB competition in training camp with a journeymen free agent like Tyrod Taylor or a last starting chance guy like Trubisky or Rosen. I do not want the Giants using a 1st round or 2nd round draft pick on a QB. I want those picks to be OL or DL/Edge. I don't like any of the QBs in the draft but my choice would be Pickett from Pitt but not in the first two rounds, only if he drops to round 3.
No QB is going to change the trajectory of this club with the offensive line in the state in which it currently exists.
Reading BBI posts about it is a master class in determining who has been brought up in the "me first", "I deserve X", and "instant gratification" generations.
You are the fan John Mara dreams about. Low expectations and always willing to buy any excuse for failure. Having a top-10 pick look competent in year 3 of his career is not "instant gratification."
But thanks anyway for the misguided condescension.
There are any number of guys that will make less than $8M that can throw 15-20 TDs a season and lead the offense to 17-20 PPG.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
2022, a veteran stop gap. From the games I've watched, I don't see any QB worth a top 15 pick. I might trade back into the bottom of the first round for one of them to get the fifth year option, but would prefer to build the rest of the team and try and get a QB in 2023.
RE: RE: People say they're afraid to force a pick,
then they say the picks have to be used on the lines.
Isn't that forcing picks?
So Terps, who do you want to qb the Giants next year? I haven’t seen your answer yet. Is this question above your pay grade? I know this question is asking you for your input, not your criticism, which is not what you usually do.
Is this serious? Didn't I just post this info above?
I'm on record as saying they should and will stick with Jones for next year. It never makes sense to me to go the veteran QB route. I don't see any franchise type QB prospects for this draft, but I'll admit I haven't watched a ton of college football this year. Would like to continue to build/rebuild the team with Jones for the time being.
Not that the situation is exact, but bringing in Collins did result in a SB appearance. It always felt that he was a placeholder, though. I just don't see a vet out there worth the price it's going to take. When Russel had a great OL, he was great. Lately, he's looked like shit, and now he has a shit OL. I don't know...I just feel that you have to build from the lines out. Bill Parcells did it, TC did it, hell even Fassel did it to an extent. You have to win in the trenches, on both sides of the ball. I just don't see a QB change amounting to anything at all and there are no resources I'd part with to get a placeholder veteran and I don't like the prospects in college right now. Compromise if I must, start Jones next year and don't pick up his option. Worse comes to worst, we are paying him top 5 QB money on the tag in 2023. Would that be so bad?
for competition, but don’t see them moving on from Jones next year. If the draft is what we hear in terms of QBs, then we should not push it and wait till following year. Improve the Oline first and foremost and then see where it takes the offense next year.
There are any number of guys that will make less than $8M that can throw 15-20 TDs a season and lead the offense to 17-20 PPG.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
Why sign a vet then? Just keep Jones for another year....same outcome for a fraction of cost
Because I do not dispute quarterback is really important, I just think they have bigger holes else where. I think Jones is average, so i'd keep him another year while I build the rest of the roster.
As JonC accurately states, the Giants need more elite talent. Not in favor of trading the first round picks, maybe the Bears pick in a trade down.
If you love Corral, take him.
They should have brought in Minshew or a Trubisky this year for competition. Also have 2 quarterbacks with similar tools so the offense doesn't need to change its identity. I'd look to bring a veteran and another younger, cheap quarterback. Probably a mid round pick. Open competition.
then they say the picks have to be used on the lines.
Isn't that forcing picks?
There is a far more likely chance that there are Linemen available where the Giants will be picking than a QB and history has taught us that teams will greatly overdraft QBs. IF there a re no lineman that make sense where the Giants pick than they can pick a an LB or CB, what is the chance that all 4 of those positions don't have any value guys around the 10th pick in the draft?
The REAL problem here is a lack of overall talent on the GIANTS roster. Changing the QB won't solve that, only good drafting will.
Jones has already shown enough to say that he could be a winning QB, so throwing him away now makes absolutely zero sense.
Fix the G..D... OL to give him a real running game and some time to throw. And get a real pass rush and some ILBs who can stop the run to get opponents off the field.
No QB coming out looks like anything more than the latest flash in the pan who won't work out. NFL history is littered with the next great collegiate QB who didn't make it, often because they ended up on teams that lacked talent, the very definition of the GIANTS for the past decade.
Acquiring a vet QB hasn't worked for this team since they got Charlie Conerly back in the middle of the last century. (Note that none of Y.A. Tittle, Fran Tarkington, or Kerry Collins won a championship for the G-men, and they are by far the most successful vet QB acquisitions the GIANTS made since acquiring Chuckin' Charlie who led them to the NFL Championship in 1956.)
Terps do you believe the Giants OL is having any effect on Jones's
The ideal is the Giants find someone in the draft they love (and they're right about). If they don't, I'd love a repeat of the Bears trade down.
I'd urge patience at the QB position. Wait for someone you really like, maybe try and take on a reclamation project in the interim and hope you get lucky.
Getting the QB position right is very, very hard. The real mistake is wasting additional years hoping a bad player turns good.
This is where I am. If you see a guy you like in the draft you get him. You don't force a pick.
If you don't draft a guy, bring in a vet and make Jones compete for the job. There is no reason you have to get rid of him, but he has to earn a roster spot.
There are enough holes to fill on this team that you need to get playmakers in the draft, whatever position they play.
It seems after endless "we need to get rid of Jones" threads since the summer, the prevailing opinion is to keep him one more year?
I think since you started this thread that a lot more people are willing to respond then if it was one of the anti Jones crew. I also believe that there is a VERY vocal anti Jones minority on this site that dominates the site and the conversation.
RE: RE: There is nothing to be gained from moving on...
No QB is going to change the trajectory of this club with the offensive line in the state in which it currently exists.
Reading BBI posts about it is a master class in determining who has been brought up in the "me first", "I deserve X", and "instant gratification" generations.
.
Seriously which generation would that be all of them? Has human nature changed all that much?
Not to mention one thing really has nothing to do with the other. This team needs a QB and then an oline. It has Thomas so that is definitively a start. If you really believe no QB would do with this line then start Glennon. After watching Jones last game i know Glennon can make throws Jones cannot.
It seems after endless "we need to get rid of Jones" threads since the summer, the prevailing opinion is to keep him one more year?
I think since you started this thread that a lot more people are willing to respond then if it was one of the anti Jones crew. I also believe that there is a VERY vocal anti Jones minority on this site that dominates the site and the conversation.
Plus it seems like that this year isn't a great draft for QBs so why force one.
There are any number of guys that will make less than $8M that can throw 15-20 TDs a season and lead the offense to 17-20 PPG.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
Why sign a vet then? Just keep Jones for another year....same outcome for a fraction of cost
Huh?
Mitch Trubisky signed in Buffalo for 1 year, $2.5M.
Using that contract as an example:
1. Sign Trubisky
2. Trade Jones
Results:
1. Get a draft pick for Jones
2. Save ~$5.8M in cap space
3. Maintain similar (I'd say slightly improved) performance at quarterback
There are any number of guys that will make less than $8M that can throw 15-20 TDs a season and lead the offense to 17-20 PPG.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
Why sign a vet then? Just keep Jones for another year....same outcome for a fraction of cost
IMO a vet will help the offense develop better overall, and it takes a huge monkey off of JJs back. Jones being bad for a 4th year absolutely sinks Judge.
Say we draft someone, decline 5th year. Let Jones audition for his next team until we want to start the new guy. If it’s pre-trade deadline try to move him, if not let him walk and hope for a comp pick.
RE: Terps do you believe the Giants OL is having any effect on Jones's
Not much, if at all. I think this is what Jones is. There are nearly 6 years of high level football backing that up. There isn't a good quarterback in there just waiting to be freed.
There are any number of guys that will make less than $8M that can throw 15-20 TDs a season and lead the offense to 17-20 PPG.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
Why sign a vet then? Just keep Jones for another year....same outcome for a fraction of cost
Huh?
Mitch Trubisky signed in Buffalo for 1 year, $2.5M.
Using that contract as an example:
1. Sign Trubisky
2. Trade Jones
Results:
1. Get a draft pick for Jones
2. Save ~$5.8M in cap space
3. Maintain similar (I'd say slightly improved) performance at quarterback
There's 3 in dead money in moving on from Jones as well. Any agent worth their salt will negotiate playing time incentives for starting or competing role too. Net costs are negligible, talent difference is negligible and you're doing a lot of maneuvering just to achieve that.
The argument to move on from him as a means of turning the page holds more water imo. Even then, it doesn't make sense when they're likely to runback the coach and most of the front office outside of Gettleman.
Seems like a guy who needs everything around him to be perfect to be successful. Good OL. Running game. Wide receivers. A TE who can hang on to the ball... and that has happened oh so rarely with the Giants.
Rather than a guy who can carry a team on his back with his play escaping pressure, throwing guys open, etc... no matter what's going on.
Based on what we know today I would prefer they Keep jones and add a vet. Based on gameplay we have a good idea that no stud is in this class. Their isn't really a free agent QB for 2022 that's great either but we should be able to bring someone in that compete. Our current backup is terrible.
No QB is going to change the trajectory of this club with the offensive line in the state in which it currently exists.
Reading BBI posts about it is a master class in determining who has been brought up in the "me first", "I deserve X", and "instant gratification" generations.
Let's not go ad hominem. It won't go well for you.
Seems like a guy who needs everything around him to be perfect to be successful. Good OL. Running game. Wide receivers. A TE who can hang on to the ball... and that has happened oh so rarely with the Giants.
Rather than a guy who can carry a team on his back with his play escaping pressure, throwing guys open, etc... no matter what's going on.
Just my opinion
and even that's not clear. That's just the best case scenario.
Quote:
Who the Big anti-Jones guys are promoting and I will keep a record of this and follow that person next year.
Bw
Terps
Debaser
Other big hate Jones guys…..let us know who is so great that you are coveting?
and that would prove absolutely nothing. Jones would still be an awful QB and not worth a half a decade of patience.
No, it would prove something….it would prove all you loud mouths don’t know anything except to bitch moan and complain.
For instance, are these Jones Haters prepared to hate on Trevor Lawrence? Why not? Look at his numbers….
The reason they won’t hate on him is because they are willing to give him more time for Jax to surround him with better talent. But these Jones haters made up their mind very early in Jones career. Some after one season, some after the second season. They don’t care about his surrounding talent….and none of them want him to succeed because it would make them look stupid.
So yeah….I’m taking notes on the Jones haters to see who they want to be our QB next year so I can keep reminding them how their guy is doing. But I suppose few if any of those guys will want to go on record….they are more critics than fans. You only hear from them when something is going poorly.
So Producer, who do you want to qb our boys next year?
2. I would like the Giants to use one of their two first round picks on Matt Corral of Ole Miss.
3. Alternatively I like Malik Cunningham out of Louisville. He may be available on day 2. See linked article below.
4. I think Russell Wilson has several years of good football left in him and I would be happy to trade for him - I just don't know how the Giants swing it with their cap situation.
5. I don't expect anything past 5 years for any draft pick.
Link - ( New Window )
The only QB in 2022 Draft who looks ready to play Week 1 of the season is Pickett IMHO, but I just don't see more than Tannehill/Cousins upside. Corral could play at some point in 2022, but not Week 1, and where he is being mocked now is way too high for what he is worth IMHO. Corral is a Top 15-20 pick at best, not a Top 5 guy.
Not sure who is available on FA market.
I said above that Ridder is growing on me. His size, athleticism, and arm are all plus territory. And he's grown every year as the starter.
There is fat to trim form his game, but I think there is a high ceiling for dvelopment.
I haven't watched enough film to make a judgement on the QBs coming out this year but I'd much rather build both sides of the line long before taking a QB.
I'd only take OL/DL for most of this years draft picks. Maybe throw in a RB or WR at the end if they're compelling enough. Rachaad White caught my eye the other day.
As painful as it would be to go into another year with Jones/Glennon we are too far away from a playoff push for it to really matter next year.
If we can build up the lines this offseason maybe make a push for a QB in 2023 depending how Jones does.
I don’t want to trade major assets for Russell Wilson
I d try to pry the younger Mariota away from the Raiders
He's still under contract for one more year and I seriously doubt anyone is trading for him.
One thing is for absolute sure - they need to bring in someone to compete w/ Jones for the starting QB job.
I wouldn't be opposed to signing a Trubisky OR a Mariota AND drafting a QB with one of the 1st round picks.
I don't think Wilson/Rodgers are options. The Giants are going to be cap strapped next year and you can't kick money down the road on those guys.
The Giants should have been all in on that Minshew trade, but they probably didn't want to hurt the QB's feelings. I wouldn't be surprised if he's starting for Philly at some point.
Bw
Terps
Debaser
Other big hate Jones guys…..let us know who is so great that you are coveting?
They think he fucking sucks.
They have a shit ton of evidence to back that opinion up.
You don't like it.
Until then, nobody could win with this crap!
But he has played really poorly
Anyone who has seen him play this year cannot come away impressed.
He needs to stay in school another year and learn how to play the QB position.
I have seen him play many times and he is not Jackson or Watson. Not close.
He has no feel for the game, despite his physical gifts he is prone to bad plays.
And this is coming against the likes of the Rajun Cajuns
Isn't that forcing picks?
If Wilson, Garrapolo, or Rodgers can be brought in let Daniel sit a couple of years
If not
Stick with Jones IMHO
It would be a disaster to bring in a College QB and have to start all over re-building
In my opinion even if you draft a top QB Jones is most likely the starter next year.
And niether of these guys is Deshaun watson or Lamar Jackson. They were both big time college QBs that finished in the top 3 of the heisman race twice with Lamar winning one. And Watson was a champion coming out.
I have watched a lot of college this year and I’m sticking with DJ too.
Craig Morton (1974-76), Cost, a #1 and a #2. (note Cowboys used the #1 to draft Randy White). Results, 1974, 2-12, 1975, 5-9, 1976, 3-11(Morton benched mid-year), total, 29TDs, 49 INTs.
Given the state of the Giants O-line, and the likely cost in draft capital, how much better to do you think Russell Wilson would do?
The Tarkenton and Morton trades set the Giants back a decade. "Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it."
Isn't that forcing picks?
So Terps, who do you want to qb the Giants next year? I haven’t seen your answer yet. Is this question above your pay grade? I know this question is asking you for your input, not your criticism, which is not what you usually do.
Isn't that forcing picks?
No, forcing a pick is taking a QB high just to do so, when said QB may not be the value of the pick- ie, overdrafted. Where we are picking the Oline choices are 1st rd oline picks, it is just a matter of OL vs another position.
I agree on Corral being the only QB I would want in Rd 1 BUT, nowhere near the top of the draft though.. Their are Edge and OL guys all better picks (based on their talent and projection) that would be far better for us.
I want a 2022 QB competition in training camp with a journeymen free agent like Tyrod Taylor or a last starting chance guy like Trubisky or Rosen. I do not want the Giants using a 1st round or 2nd round draft pick on a QB. I want those picks to be OL or DL/Edge. I don't like any of the QBs in the draft but my choice would be Pickett from Pitt but not in the first two rounds, only if he drops to round 3.
Trevor Lawrence struggles is not an exoneration of DJ. Trevor Lawrence is not a cautionary tale for the Giants.
Reading BBI posts about it is a master class in determining who has been brought up in the "me first", "I deserve X", and "instant gratification" generations.
You are the fan John Mara dreams about. Low expectations and always willing to buy any excuse for failure. Having a top-10 pick look competent in year 3 of his career is not "instant gratification."
But thanks anyway for the misguided condescension.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
Quote:
then they say the picks have to be used on the lines.
Isn't that forcing picks?
So Terps, who do you want to qb the Giants next year? I haven’t seen your answer yet. Is this question above your pay grade? I know this question is asking you for your input, not your criticism, which is not what you usually do.
Is this serious? Didn't I just post this info above?
Quote:
In comment 15472321 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I'm on record as saying they should and will stick with Jones for next year. It never makes sense to me to go the veteran QB route. I don't see any franchise type QB prospects for this draft, but I'll admit I haven't watched a ton of college football this year. Would like to continue to build/rebuild the team with Jones for the time being.
Not that the situation is exact, but bringing in Collins did result in a SB appearance. It always felt that he was a placeholder, though. I just don't see a vet out there worth the price it's going to take. When Russel had a great OL, he was great. Lately, he's looked like shit, and now he has a shit OL. I don't know...I just feel that you have to build from the lines out. Bill Parcells did it, TC did it, hell even Fassel did it to an extent. You have to win in the trenches, on both sides of the ball. I just don't see a QB change amounting to anything at all and there are no resources I'd part with to get a placeholder veteran and I don't like the prospects in college right now. Compromise if I must, start Jones next year and don't pick up his option. Worse comes to worst, we are paying him top 5 QB money on the tag in 2023. Would that be so bad?
Thats what i would do.. agree 100%
I agree with this also.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
Why sign a vet then? Just keep Jones for another year....same outcome for a fraction of cost
As JonC accurately states, the Giants need more elite talent. Not in favor of trading the first round picks, maybe the Bears pick in a trade down.
If you love Corral, take him.
They should have brought in Minshew or a Trubisky this year for competition. Also have 2 quarterbacks with similar tools so the offense doesn't need to change its identity. I'd look to bring a veteran and another younger, cheap quarterback. Probably a mid round pick. Open competition.
Isn't that forcing picks?
There is a far more likely chance that there are Linemen available where the Giants will be picking than a QB and history has taught us that teams will greatly overdraft QBs. IF there a re no lineman that make sense where the Giants pick than they can pick a an LB or CB, what is the chance that all 4 of those positions don't have any value guys around the 10th pick in the draft?
And here is the Jones First argument in a nutshell
Jones in year 3 - "it's only been 3 years and he's played behind a bad Oline. Need more time to see what he is"
Lawrence after 11 games - "he sucks"
Jones has already shown enough to say that he could be a winning QB, so throwing him away now makes absolutely zero sense.
Fix the G..D... OL to give him a real running game and some time to throw. And get a real pass rush and some ILBs who can stop the run to get opponents off the field.
No QB coming out looks like anything more than the latest flash in the pan who won't work out. NFL history is littered with the next great collegiate QB who didn't make it, often because they ended up on teams that lacked talent, the very definition of the GIANTS for the past decade.
Acquiring a vet QB hasn't worked for this team since they got Charlie Conerly back in the middle of the last century. (Note that none of Y.A. Tittle, Fran Tarkington, or Kerry Collins won a championship for the G-men, and they are by far the most successful vet QB acquisitions the GIANTS made since acquiring Chuckin' Charlie who led them to the NFL Championship in 1956.)
It seems after endless "we need to get rid of Jones" threads since the summer, the prevailing opinion is to keep him one more year?
I'd urge patience at the QB position. Wait for someone you really like, maybe try and take on a reclamation project in the interim and hope you get lucky.
Getting the QB position right is very, very hard. The real mistake is wasting additional years hoping a bad player turns good.
This is where I am. If you see a guy you like in the draft you get him. You don't force a pick.
If you don't draft a guy, bring in a vet and make Jones compete for the job. There is no reason you have to get rid of him, but he has to earn a roster spot.
There are enough holes to fill on this team that you need to get playmakers in the draft, whatever position they play.
It seems after endless "we need to get rid of Jones" threads since the summer, the prevailing opinion is to keep him one more year?
I think since you started this thread that a lot more people are willing to respond then if it was one of the anti Jones crew. I also believe that there is a VERY vocal anti Jones minority on this site that dominates the site and the conversation.
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No QB is going to change the trajectory of this club with the offensive line in the state in which it currently exists.
Reading BBI posts about it is a master class in determining who has been brought up in the "me first", "I deserve X", and "instant gratification" generations.
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Seriously which generation would that be all of them? Has human nature changed all that much?
Not to mention one thing really has nothing to do with the other. This team needs a QB and then an oline. It has Thomas so that is definitively a start. If you really believe no QB would do with this line then start Glennon. After watching Jones last game i know Glennon can make throws Jones cannot.
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I misreading this thread?
It seems after endless "we need to get rid of Jones" threads since the summer, the prevailing opinion is to keep him one more year?
I think since you started this thread that a lot more people are willing to respond then if it was one of the anti Jones crew. I also believe that there is a VERY vocal anti Jones minority on this site that dominates the site and the conversation.
Plus it seems like that this year isn't a great draft for QBs so why force one.
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There are any number of guys that will make less than $8M that can throw 15-20 TDs a season and lead the offense to 17-20 PPG.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
Why sign a vet then? Just keep Jones for another year....same outcome for a fraction of cost
Huh?
Mitch Trubisky signed in Buffalo for 1 year, $2.5M.
Using that contract as an example:
1. Sign Trubisky
2. Trade Jones
Results:
1. Get a draft pick for Jones
2. Save ~$5.8M in cap space
3. Maintain similar (I'd say slightly improved) performance at quarterback
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There are any number of guys that will make less than $8M that can throw 15-20 TDs a season and lead the offense to 17-20 PPG.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
Why sign a vet then? Just keep Jones for another year....same outcome for a fraction of cost
IMO a vet will help the offense develop better overall, and it takes a huge monkey off of JJs back. Jones being bad for a 4th year absolutely sinks Judge.
Not much, if at all. I think this is what Jones is. There are nearly 6 years of high level football backing that up. There isn't a good quarterback in there just waiting to be freed.
It seems after endless "we need to get rid of Jones" threads since the summer, the prevailing opinion is to keep him one more year?
People are terrified of drafting another Jones.
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In comment 15472545 Go Terps said:
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There are any number of guys that will make less than $8M that can throw 15-20 TDs a season and lead the offense to 17-20 PPG.
If that's the level of QB play you want to maintain then trade Jones and sign a FA for $3M or $4M. You save cap space, add a draft pick, and lose nothing in performance.
Why sign a vet then? Just keep Jones for another year....same outcome for a fraction of cost
Huh?
Mitch Trubisky signed in Buffalo for 1 year, $2.5M.
Using that contract as an example:
1. Sign Trubisky
2. Trade Jones
Results:
1. Get a draft pick for Jones
2. Save ~$5.8M in cap space
3. Maintain similar (I'd say slightly improved) performance at quarterback
The argument to move on from him as a means of turning the page holds more water imo. Even then, it doesn't make sense when they're likely to runback the coach and most of the front office outside of Gettleman.
Rather than a guy who can carry a team on his back with his play escaping pressure, throwing guys open, etc... no matter what's going on.
Just my opinion
Reading BBI posts about it is a master class in determining who has been brought up in the "me first", "I deserve X", and "instant gratification" generations.
Let's not go ad hominem. It won't go well for you.
Rather than a guy who can carry a team on his back with his play escaping pressure, throwing guys open, etc... no matter what's going on.
Just my opinion
and even that's not clear. That's just the best case scenario.