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| Brian Baldinger @BaldyNFL . @WashingtonNFL has new set of HOGS and are they fun to watch . And no one is having more fun. @Eflow_74 is at home in the burgundy & gold. This is a good formula to winning football in December. Can’t wait to watch them this week in Vegas. #BaldysBreakdowns |
[Isaiah Wilson has entered the chat]
Baaaaaahahahaha....the last Gettleman fan pipes up!
So he wanted out to a team that would let him be a T. When those options ran out, he agreed to try G to save his career.
We didn’t want to pay T money to a G. He wanted to be a T. Don’t remember tears shed here when he moved on. Sometimes players need to mature and develop and accept their limitations.
That's not what I was referring to.
You would like to think the Giants and Flowers could have reasonably gotten to some middle point on the Guard conversation to, you know, actually help the team and himself. Clearly we didn't try or were not too persuasive, or Flowers was more stubborn than our guys.
Agree it was a failure, on both sides. And he failed after leaving us as well until he stopped failing. And now it's for a divisional rival and we still don't have decent Guards.
Flowers was a dink, no question about it. But amazing how giving up on that idiot indirectly turned into a bigger disaster than anybody could have imagined...
Could be another Ereck Flowers/Justin Pugh situation.
2) Flowers sucked with the Giants
3) Flowers refused to switch to Guard here. Ditto with Miami.
4) he switched to G with WAS because he was out NFL options if he didn't
in conclusion, 5) this has NOT A FUCKING THING TO DO WITH REESE'S EYE FOR TALENT
How do 1, 2, and 4 reconcile with 5? Flowers' only shot at success was guard and Reese saw him as a "blue goose" left tackle and picked him #9 overall. That is on Reese.
Flowers being an uncoachable asshole for his first two teams was just icing on the cake.
If you were here back then, I had the scoop about six weeks before the draft they were locked on Flowers. The OL coach at the time was sold that he was a gamechanger at LT, super athletic, coachable, positive influence, etc. Uhhh, nope.
How do you miss so badly on 1) football talent and 2) personality? Multiple people stink at their jobs and aren't digging deep enough into personality/character make ups.
How do you miss so badly on 1) football talent and 2) personality? Multiple people stink at their jobs and aren't digging deep enough into personality/character make ups.
Well, currently the Giants seems to nail #2 but the team still sucks because all these high character players are not good. Even if Flowers had the best attitude in the world it would not have made a difference because he can't play tackle.
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1) Flowers was a huge reach
2) Flowers sucked with the Giants
3) Flowers refused to switch to Guard here. Ditto with Miami.
4) he switched to G with WAS because he was out NFL options if he didn't
in conclusion, 5) this has NOT A FUCKING THING TO DO WITH REESE'S EYE FOR TALENT
How do 1, 2, and 4 reconcile with 5? Flowers' only shot at success was guard and Reese saw him as a "blue goose" left tackle and picked him #9 overall. That is on Reese.
Flowers being an uncoachable asshole for his first two teams was just icing on the cake.
Sorry if I was unclear, 5 was in response to this from the OP: "Reese was and is a million miles better than Gettleman."
I don’t believe he was ever going to be willing to play guard for us.. he wasn’t ready to accept the fact he wasn’t a left tackle
Because I haven't
Because I haven't
That was Jones' fault...not Flowers'
Collins playing well? Dude was getting ROASTED so they were forced to move him into the box permanently. he is a flawed player and got 80 mill. it was an easy decision to let him walk.
flowers blew dick for his entire tenure here. he refused to move to guard thinking he was a first rounder and had that power. he was let go and then bounced around to washington where his ONLY OFFER WAS TO PLAY GUARD. what would you do? quit football or get paid to change positions. he had no choice and now it worked out.
hindsight is PERFECT vision. i couldnt give two fucks that either player are gone. they arent all pro level players that we let go because we were dumb or cheap. both were the right moves at the time.
What he said !!!
If you were here back then, I had the scoop about six weeks before the draft they were locked on Flowers. The OL coach at the time was sold that he was a gamechanger at LT, super athletic, coachable, positive influence, etc. Uhhh, nope.
How do you miss so badly on 1) football talent and 2) personality? Multiple people stink at their jobs and aren't digging deep enough into personality/character make ups.
All that, but I think the worst part was how everyone knew they were locked on Flowers SIX WEEKS before the draft. Reese's war room leaked more than than the Titanic after the iceberg.
If you were here back then, I had the scoop about six weeks before the draft they were locked on Flowers. The OL coach at the time was sold that he was a gamechanger at LT, super athletic, coachable, positive influence, etc. Uhhh, nope.
How do you miss so badly on 1) football talent and 2) personality? Multiple people stink at their jobs and aren't digging deep enough into personality/character make ups.
College teams are good at creating b.s. buzz about their prospects. I know a huge Titans fan who is livid about the idea that Georgia lied through its teeth about Wilson. Not sure if there's any truth in either situation, but the college folks do have an incentive to talk their guys up (within reason).
On a separate note, players have much more incentive to be coachable and have a good attitude when they're playing for peanuts in college versus when they get guaranteed millions for being drafted.
Moreover, sometimes places are just bad fits for prospects.
I think it's hard to point to one real "reason" why like 50% of first rounders bust. It's complicated and each situation is unique.
Because WFT is basically playing him at LB because he is a sieve in coverage. THAT hasn't changed.
Maybe people should point out that WFT thought it prudent to pay a safety who can only play in the box $80M. It isn't only our front office that has issues.
DG talked in the open about not talking yourself into drafting guys, and I suspect they do exactly that in many cases.
DG talked in the open about not talking yourself into drafting guys, and I suspect they do exactly that in many cases.
I'm with you, it seems we're underperforming on top picks versus the baseline.
All the failed picks made my the Giants impacted the future.
Flowers should be a quality starting LT for the Giants. Instead they had to sign Solder (huge overpay and played terrible) which led to drafting AT.
WH: barely adequate. Now they have to probably invest high draft picks.
Apple/Baker: Had to over pay for two corners and probably have to invest again in a 1st round pick to replace.
SB/DJ....
On and on this thing of ours continues.
2) Flowers sucked with the Giants
3) Flowers refused to switch to Guard here. Ditto with Miami.
4) he switched to G with WAS because he was out NFL options if he didn't
in conclusion, 5) this has NOT A FUCKING THING TO DO WITH REESE'S EYE FOR TALENT
LMAO...Tell 'em Vic!
Flowers threads always gloss over the fact that TC kept him in the lineup despite him being terrible.
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Because I haven't
That was Jones' fault...not Flowers'
That would be quite amazing as Jones was a sophomore at Duke
Just too much wasted resources for years and years. Take any three years of drafting and look at what the Giants yielded. This issue goes back over a decade.
I've always suspected that a big reason for Daniel Jones somehow getting drafted in the top 10 despite never particularly standing out in college was due to Cutcliffe campaigning for him.
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1) Flowers was a huge reach
2) Flowers sucked with the Giants
3) Flowers refused to switch to Guard here. Ditto with Miami.
4) he switched to G with WAS because he was out NFL options if he didn't
in conclusion, 5) this has NOT A FUCKING THING TO DO WITH REESE'S EYE FOR TALENT
LMAO...Tell 'em Vic!
LOL thanks. I was surly this morning having to leave the lair and take the train and subway to the office :-)
Then Edsall, a buddy of TC's sent us Peart for not getting rid of Reese with him.
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that we spent that high of draft capital on him, and didn't bother to test him at OG when it was clear OT wasn't working out.
Right - because "he didn't want to play G". Ugh. I'm amusing myself thinking about him telling Parcells and George Young that.
This happens all the time.. Todd Christenson (remember him) Oakland HOF type tight end.. He told me directly he was a FB and Coach Landry wanted to move him to TE and he refused and was cut. The Giants needed a TE, picked him up, he again refused to move to TE and was cut in favor of WR Dwight Scales (LOL) .. Finally he got to the Raiders and they wanted to play him at TE, he said OK I get it and was a huge success.. Shame the light for Flowers didnt come on earlier
He was traded back to Wash because they were moving their 2nd round pick to LG and it was cheaper
It falls on the coaching staff to get the guy to play. There are a lot of coaches who have conversations with players about reality - tell him straight he would be out of the league a T or could make money as a G
Saying all that, since it did not go down that way, he needed to move on for a fresh start
Is Zeitler actually playing better or does that unique offense make him look better
There are an unfortunate number of examples where this has happened with the team and not like anything else I've seen in sports.
Honestly this season is probably the most unforgiveable season I've ever seen a front office have. Many of us pointing to the OL, the OL being an ongoing problem. The front office acting like they knew something we didn't. OL being absolutely atrocious. It was their depth that many pointed to as being so bad so the idea that they get even a modicum of coverage for this from anyone is astounding.
It is one of the most wasted seasons I've ever seen in professional sports where they've spent themselves to a pretty high payroll. Only to trade away depth like Hill in desperation to fix something many knew was a problem.
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Because I haven't
That was Jones' fault...not Flowers'
He can’t sense pressure. Elite QBs climb the pocket and fire a strike in that situation.
I think our OL coaching has simply sucked for a decade making our player selections look worse than they are.
Flowers threads always gloss over the fact that TC kept him in the lineup despite him being terrible.
And that TC rushed to sign him after the Giants jettisoned him.
I still remember a quote from Reese right after the draft where he said "I think he'll make a good guard" before he sang the company line afterward. I wish I could find it, I thought it was strange at the time.
The team the day Reese was fired would beat the team right now. Reese never blew the #2 overall pick on a gadget player for example.
Gettleman is worse even than post-2012 Reese.
Is Zeitler actually playing better or does that unique offense make him look better
Zietler wasn’t a bad player, he was just wildly overpaid by Cleveland, and DG was more than happy to take on that contract.
Looking at the roster decisions and results from both of these moronic GMs over the last 10 years, I don't think there is a bigger waste of time than arguing who might be better.
Go re-arrange your sock drawer, it will be more productive...
In fairness to Reese...he did have a role in shaping 2 Super Bowl teams. He obviously was a disaster near the end. Gettleman...I still am confounded how he still is employed. He's done incalculable damage to this organization. And he's a buffoon.
But it shouldn't be that surprising, or this hard to accept, that he's now playing well with another team. He was only age 24 when the Giants released him (for context, Nate Solder was already age 23 before he even played in his first NFL game). He was still very young and had room for growth - it just wasn't working out here.
Anyway, he and Jerry Reese have been gone for years now - it's astounding that threads concerning either of those two people still draw so much attention and anger. It's time to move on.
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Because I haven't
That was Jones' fault...not Flowers'
He can’t sense pressure. Elite QBs climb the pocket and fire a strike in that situation.
Were those comments sarcastic - the Qb was Eli.
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Because I haven't
That was Jones' fault...not Flowers'