Ereck Flowers playing well for WFT

made Leonard Williams invisible.

that we spent that high of draft capital on him, and didn't bother to test him at OG when it was clear OT wasn't working out.

1) Flowers was a huge reach
2) Flowers sucked with the Giants
3) Flowers refused to switch to Guard here. Ditto with Miami.
4) he switched to G with WAS because he was out NFL options if he didn't

in conclusion, 5) this has NOT A FUCKING THING TO DO WITH REESE'S EYE FOR TALENT

for a colossal waste of a pick?

Thats a new one.

In comment 15473996 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:

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that we spent that high of draft capital on him, and didn't bother to test him at OG when it was clear OT wasn't working out.

He refused to play guard.

In comment 15473996 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:

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that we spent that high of draft capital on him, and didn't bother to test him at OG when it was clear OT wasn't working out.

Right - because "he didn't want to play G". Ugh. I'm amusing myself thinking about him telling Parcells and George Young that.

is a better and more consistent player than anyone gettleman has brought in in the four-year period since he cut him.

In comment 15474004 japanhead said:

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is a better and more consistent player than anyone gettleman has brought in in the four-year period since he cut him.

This is my point.

Jerrah Reeeechs drafts -after Gettleman left.

In comment 15473996 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:

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that we spent that high of draft capital on him, and didn't bother to test him at OG when it was clear OT wasn't working out.

It’s more frustrating that people claim that the Giants didn’t try him at guard. He wasn’t willing to play guard for the Giants or the Jaguars. He also admitted that he wanted out of NY.

The reason why Flowers agreed to play guard for Washington was because it was his only offer in free agency.

too

The Giants never seemed to a good fit for him. He had issues in the locker room. Maybe he just needed to grow up a little bit or maybe he's the same guy and under the radar in Washington. There are some players in the NFL that just want to do their job and be left alone. No chance of that as the #9 pick in NY/NJ.

Giants Player perform better when they leave the team.. Tells us a lot about coaching we have had since TC left..

ballin in cincy,just sayin.

He had a couple of big whiffs in that game.

Would love to actually get the story on how that went down exactly or if it really did at all...

IMO. T is where bigger money is. He thought he could be one, but his technique here was terrible. Remember him bending at the waste all the time, getting off balance? I’m sure he was coached on it, but reverted to form during the heat of the games.

So he wanted out to a team that would let him be a T. When those options ran out, he agreed to try G to save his career.

We didn’t want to pay T money to a G. He wanted to be a T. Don’t remember tears shed here when he moved on. Sometimes players need to mature and develop and accept their limitations.

It's clear Flowers issue wasn't talent but between the ears. Call it mental toughness, ego, whatever, but it's clear it has taken some difficult experiences or him to develop some humility. And in a very unfortunate stroke of coincidence that adds a healthy pinch of salt to the wound it happened to be with a division rival.

For the Giants the question is how can this staff A) ID a player with issues like Flowers prior to spending a premium pick on him and B) how can you reach a player like Flowers to maximize his talent and get the most out of your roster. It's impossible to have a roster completely comprised of team first self accountable go-getters. The great roster managers can assess things like chemistry and develop a staff that can reach and get the most out of the guys who lag in those areas. Because while Flowers certainly owns the bulk of his failures here at least some responsibility lies with the organization.

all talk out of your asses.

Collins playing well? Dude was getting ROASTED so they were forced to move him into the box permanently. he is a flawed player and got 80 mill. it was an easy decision to let him walk.

flowers blew dick for his entire tenure here. he refused to move to guard thinking he was a first rounder and had that power. he was let go and then bounced around to washington where his ONLY OFFER WAS TO PLAY GUARD. what would you do? quit football or get paid to change positions. he had no choice and now it worked out.

hindsight is PERFECT vision. i couldnt give two fucks that either player are gone. they arent all pro level players that we let go because we were dumb or cheap. both were the right moves at the time.

In comment 15474069 j_rud said:

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It's clear Flowers issue wasn't talent but between the ears. Call it mental toughness, ego, whatever, but it's clear it has taken some difficult experiences or him to develop some humility. And in a very unfortunate stroke of coincidence that adds a healthy pinch of salt to the wound it happened to be with a division rival. For the Giants the question is how can this staff A) ID a player with issues like Flowers prior to spending a premium pick on him and B) how can you reach a player like Flowers to maximize his talent and get the most out of your roster. It's impossible to have a roster completely comprised of team first self accountable go-getters. The great roster managers can assess things like chemistry and develop a staff that can reach and get the most out of the guys who lag in those areas. Because while Flowers certainly owns the bulk of his failures here at least some responsibility lies with the organization.

Great post.

and played like Shit here (as bad as Solder). It spoiled the end of Eli's career.
Matt Dodge, however- now that guy was a great punter.

In comment 15474009 TheBlueprintNC said:

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Jerrah Reeeechs drafts -after Gettleman left.

You might want to familiarize yourself with Gettleman’s role when he was on Reese’s staff.

to make Flowers realize he was a guard. Same thing happened with Leonard Davis and many others. It sucks that the Giants wasted both draft capital and several seasons of time in the OT phase. Flowers did refuse to move to OG because it would limit his earning potential while in NY. Predictably, when the choice came down to OG or no income, he slid to OG. This stuff happens but it would be nice for us to hit on one of the reclamation projects once in a while.

In comment 15474106 OlyWABigBlue said:

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to make Flowers realize he was a guard. Same thing happened with Leonard Davis and many others. It sucks that the Giants wasted both draft capital and several seasons of time in the OT phase. Flowers did refuse to move to OG because it would limit his earning potential while in NY. Predictably, when the choice came down to OG or no income, he slid to OG. This stuff happens but it would be nice for us to hit on one of the reclamation projects once in a while.

[Isaiah Wilson has entered the chat]

In comment 15474009 TheBlueprintNC said:

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Jerrah Reeeechs drafts -after Gettleman left.

Baaaaaahahahaha....the last Gettleman fan pipes up!

In comment 15474068 Daniel in MI said:

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IMO. T is where bigger money is. He thought he could be one, but his technique here was terrible. Remember him bending at the waste all the time, getting off balance? I’m sure he was coached on it, but reverted to form during the heat of the games. So he wanted out to a team that would let him be a T. When those options ran out, he agreed to try G to save his career. We didn’t want to pay T money to a G. He wanted to be a T. Don’t remember tears shed here when he moved on. Sometimes players need to mature and develop and accept their limitations.

That's not what I was referring to.

You would like to think the Giants and Flowers could have reasonably gotten to some middle point on the Guard conversation to, you know, actually help the team and himself. Clearly we didn't try or were not too persuasive, or Flowers was more stubborn than our guys.

Agree it was a failure, on both sides. And he failed after leaving us as well until he stopped failing. And now it's for a divisional rival and we still don't have decent Guards.

Flowers was a dink, no question about it. But amazing how giving up on that idiot indirectly turned into a bigger disaster than anybody could have imagined...

like others, I dont understand playing Solder over Peart but why not at least play him at guard?

Could be another Ereck Flowers/Justin Pugh situation.

...if he was picked in the third round.

In comment 15473999 Victor in CT said:

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1) Flowers was a huge reach 2) Flowers sucked with the Giants 3) Flowers refused to switch to Guard here. Ditto with Miami. 4) he switched to G with WAS because he was out NFL options if he didn't in conclusion, 5) this has NOT A FUCKING THING TO DO WITH REESE'S EYE FOR TALENT

How do 1, 2, and 4 reconcile with 5? Flowers' only shot at success was guard and Reese saw him as a "blue goose" left tackle and picked him #9 overall. That is on Reese.

Flowers being an uncoachable asshole for his first two teams was just icing on the cake.

at the end of the day, Reese and co spent a vital #9 overall pick on an OG with severe limitations including his attitude.

If you were here back then, I had the scoop about six weeks before the draft they were locked on Flowers. The OL coach at the time was sold that he was a gamechanger at LT, super athletic, coachable, positive influence, etc. Uhhh, nope.

How do you miss so badly on 1) football talent and 2) personality? Multiple people stink at their jobs and aren't digging deep enough into personality/character make ups.

In comment 15474203 JonC said:

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a How do you miss so badly on 1) football talent and 2) personality? Multiple people stink at their jobs and aren't digging deep enough into personality/character make ups.

Well, currently the Giants seems to nail #2 but the team still sucks because all these high character players are not good. Even if Flowers had the best attitude in the world it would not have made a difference because he can't play tackle.

In comment 15474199 widmerseyebrow said:

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In comment 15473999 Victor in CT said: Quote: 1) Flowers was a huge reach 2) Flowers sucked with the Giants 3) Flowers refused to switch to Guard here. Ditto with Miami. 4) he switched to G with WAS because he was out NFL options if he didn't in conclusion, 5) this has NOT A FUCKING THING TO DO WITH REESE'S EYE FOR TALENT How do 1, 2, and 4 reconcile with 5? Flowers' only shot at success was guard and Reese saw him as a "blue goose" left tackle and picked him #9 overall. That is on Reese. Flowers being an uncoachable asshole for his first two teams was just icing on the cake.

Sorry if I was unclear, 5 was in response to this from the OP: "Reese was and is a million miles better than Gettleman."

Of revisionist history here.. flowers had a melt down over moving to RT let alone to guard.. if my memory is correct.. I think he was a guy that has to come close to losing everything to be willing to change..

I don’t believe he was ever going to be willing to play guard for us.. he wasn’t ready to accept the fact he wasn’t a left tackle

wiffing on 3 blocks. Maybe that will lend some perspective to this thread.

Because I haven't

In comment 15474323 Larry in Pencilvania said:

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Because I haven't

That was Jones' fault...not Flowers'

Hernandez was a bad pick, but far more defensible at 34 than Flowers was at 9. That he is playing well at OG for WFT (where he refused to move to here) does little to change that.

In comment 15474072 BleedBlue said:

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all talk out of your asses. Collins playing well? Dude was getting ROASTED so they were forced to move him into the box permanently. he is a flawed player and got 80 mill. it was an easy decision to let him walk. flowers blew dick for his entire tenure here. he refused to move to guard thinking he was a first rounder and had that power. he was let go and then bounced around to washington where his ONLY OFFER WAS TO PLAY GUARD. what would you do? quit football or get paid to change positions. he had no choice and now it worked out. hindsight is PERFECT vision. i couldnt give two fucks that either player are gone. they arent all pro level players that we let go because we were dumb or cheap. both were the right moves at the time.

What he said !!!

In comment 15474203 JonC said:

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at the end of the day, Reese and co spent a vital #9 overall pick on an OG with severe limitations including his attitude. If you were here back then, I had the scoop about six weeks before the draft they were locked on Flowers. The OL coach at the time was sold that he was a gamechanger at LT, super athletic, coachable, positive influence, etc. Uhhh, nope. How do you miss so badly on 1) football talent and 2) personality? Multiple people stink at their jobs and aren't digging deep enough into personality/character make ups.

All that, but I think the worst part was how everyone knew they were locked on Flowers SIX WEEKS before the draft. Reese's war room leaked more than than the Titanic after the iceberg.

In comment 15474203 JonC said:

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at the end of the day, Reese and co spent a vital #9 overall pick on an OG with severe limitations including his attitude. If you were here back then, I had the scoop about six weeks before the draft they were locked on Flowers. The OL coach at the time was sold that he was a gamechanger at LT, super athletic, coachable, positive influence, etc. Uhhh, nope. How do you miss so badly on 1) football talent and 2) personality? Multiple people stink at their jobs and aren't digging deep enough into personality/character make ups.

College teams are good at creating b.s. buzz about their prospects. I know a huge Titans fan who is livid about the idea that Georgia lied through its teeth about Wilson. Not sure if there's any truth in either situation, but the college folks do have an incentive to talk their guys up (within reason).

On a separate note, players have much more incentive to be coachable and have a good attitude when they're playing for peanuts in college versus when they get guaranteed millions for being drafted.

Moreover, sometimes places are just bad fits for prospects.

I think it's hard to point to one real "reason" why like 50% of first rounders bust. It's complicated and each situation is unique.

In comment 15474013 DC Gmen Fan said:

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too

Because WFT is basically playing him at LB because he is a sieve in coverage. THAT hasn't changed.

Maybe people should point out that WFT thought it prudent to pay a safety who can only play in the box $80M. It isn't only our front office that has issues.

Mike, of course I get it but it sure seems like NYG is nowhere near a 50% success rate, especially with the top picks. ROI for those top three guys is really discouraging to date.

DG talked in the open about not talking yourself into drafting guys, and I suspect they do exactly that in many cases.

besides the refusal to play guard, he was terrible when he went to Jacksonville and then played solidly for Washington. He turned that into a solid contract with the fins and promptly went back to sucking. They traded him back to Washington for nothing even as they were desperate for help on the line. Good for him for having a good year. Not sure what it is with Washington, but he plays better there. However, I don't miss him and I don't trust his abilities even now.

But he was just too big of an ass.

In comment 15474353 JonC said:

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Mike, of course I get it but it sure seems like NYG is nowhere near a 50% success rate, especially with the top picks. ROI for those top three guys is really discouraging to date. DG talked in the open about not talking yourself into drafting guys, and I suspect they do exactly that in many cases.

I'm with you, it seems we're underperforming on top picks versus the baseline.

What a disaster.

when to put in some effort and then he is just average.

All the failed picks made my the Giants impacted the future.

Flowers should be a quality starting LT for the Giants. Instead they had to sign Solder (huge overpay and played terrible) which led to drafting AT.

WH: barely adequate. Now they have to probably invest high draft picks.

Apple/Baker: Had to over pay for two corners and probably have to invest again in a 1st round pick to replace.

SB/DJ....

On and on this thing of ours continues.

So Flowers was a law of negative returns in a lot of ways.

In comment 15473999 Victor in CT said:

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1) Flowers was a huge reach 2) Flowers sucked with the Giants 3) Flowers refused to switch to Guard here. Ditto with Miami. 4) he switched to G with WAS because he was out NFL options if he didn't in conclusion, 5) this has NOT A FUCKING THING TO DO WITH REESE'S EYE FOR TALENT

LMAO...Tell 'em Vic!

And he may truly belong on a list of worst GMs of all time -- think about how poorly this reflects on Accorsi and Mara who recommended/hired the buffoon!