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Dolphins beat writer on Tagovailoa

cosmicj : 11/30/2021 12:51 pm
Formerly critical journalist who was against picking Tua now believes he has a future. Dolphins struggling with abysmal OL, like the Giants. Tua has been coming on with 3 good games (QB rating & gt; 100), 3/1 TD to INTs, good to very good YPA.


Miami Dolphins fans should now see that Tua Tagovailoa is legit - ( New Window )
Still see the same core flaws with Tua  
JonC : 11/30/2021 12:53 pm : link
He's often an inaccurate passer, and if you hit him he's a different player.
His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
Producer : 11/30/2021 12:55 pm : link
He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.
I’m not surprised  
5BowlsSoon : 11/30/2021 12:55 pm : link
I believe he was being written off way to early. That seems to be going around a lot these days.

In the past, a rookie qb never started but held a clipboard and watched and observed for 1-2 years. Then he got thrown into the fire.

Not anymore….rookies are starting day one and when they don’t get results they get blamed for it and fans want to draft another qb who they think is better. People need to realize, not everyone is programmed the same…some need a little more time to process everything….we all don’t learn at the same speed.
My neighbor is a huge Dolphins fan and told me last night  
Jimmy Googs : 11/30/2021 12:57 pm : link
verbatim the Fins season has gone like this:

* Porous OL and injuries made offensive difficult to operate
* Young QB running for his life
* Defense has most potential and playing better lately
* Poor coaching blew some early season games
* Trying to dig out of that hole

Who does that sound like?
He may be inaccurate when he is pressured and unsettled when he is  
Ivan15 : 11/30/2021 12:58 pm : link
Getting hit, but he sure looks good when he can stand in the pocket or step up.

I was down on him too, but he is starting to look really good. He is no doubt a drop-back QB. Not good on the move and too slight to be much of a runner.
Tua has looked a lot better this year  
Eric on Li : 11/30/2021 12:59 pm : link
i was not a believer at all last year but i think he has a chance to be the answer for them now. Don't think it will take them out on Watson if his legal stuff gets resolved but certainly gives them a lot more leverage.
and inaccuracy was never going to be a problem for Tua  
Producer : 11/30/2021 1:01 pm : link
In college he flashed, not good accuracy, elite accuracy. Something even Herbert can't touch. And accordingly he is presently 2nd in the league in comp % - sporting an elite 70.5% in 2021.

When I've watched him play  
JonC : 11/30/2021 1:03 pm : link
he's often inaccurate in general, and he doesn't have a terrific arm as his supporters claimed pre-draft. I think he has more promise than some of his college contemporaries, but I wouldn't be shocked if they go with another QB first chance they get.

Got to remember when you're watching these guys play on top college teams, a lot of things won't translate to the NFL where the players are bigger, faster, stronger, etc.
re: accuracy  
JonC : 11/30/2021 1:05 pm : link
I'm talking about plays in games where he's missing throws he needs to make, and there's a lot of wild misses, over throws, getting his receivers killed, etc. His completion % only goes so far in painting a picture.
RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
BigBlueShock : 11/30/2021 1:06 pm : link
In comment 15474291 Producer said:
Quote:
He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.

Holy shit you are the most annoying SOB I’ve ever come across. Well, you and Debaser assuming you aren’t the same guy. Seems to be some uncertainty there.

You simply cannot go one thread without whining about Daniel Jones. No matter the thread or the topic, you find a way to bring him up. Do you REALY not understand just how repetitive you are? Or are you going to admit that you are trolling? Which is it? You’re either not very bright or a troll. Or both, which is likely the case.
RE: When I've watched him play  
Section331 : 11/30/2021 1:09 pm : link
In comment 15474308 JonC said:
Quote:
he's often inaccurate in general, and he doesn't have a terrific arm as his supporters claimed pre-draft. I think he has more promise than some of his college contemporaries, but I wouldn't be shocked if they go with another QB first chance they get.

Got to remember when you're watching these guys play on top college teams, a lot of things won't translate to the NFL where the players are bigger, faster, stronger, etc.


Yeah, his arm strength isn't going to blow anyone away, but I think his accuracy issues are more related to the game being too fast for him early. He showed elite accuracy at Bama, I think that part of his game will be fine as things slow down for him.
Eh, posters said the same things about Haskins  
JonC : 11/30/2021 1:14 pm : link
and the elite accuracy in college did not translate to the NFL, seeing similar with Tua so far. He just doesn't impress, he was overdrafted and make no mistake Miami wants Watson.
And I will also point out that many here  
Section331 : 11/30/2021 1:14 pm : link
calling Tua a bust after half a season in Miami are the same ones saying we can't fairly evaluate Jones until he has 25 30 35 40 starts.
RE: Eh, posters said the same things about Haskins  
Section331 : 11/30/2021 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15474322 JonC said:
Quote:
and the elite accuracy in college did not translate to the NFL, seeing similar with Tua so far. He just doesn't impress, he was overdrafted and make no mistake Miami wants Watson.


I don't disagree that he was overdrafted, but I think it's unfair to compare him to Haskins. Haskins just doesn't seem to want to work too hard.
and I think it is worth noting that Tua has only started 16 games  
Producer : 11/30/2021 1:18 pm : link
in the NFL.

Of course, injuries are a concern too. But it is the equivalent of just one full season of starts for him.
Not comparing him to Haskins  
JonC : 11/30/2021 1:22 pm : link
merely drawing a parallel regarding fan opinion when they try to project a college prospect to the NFL.
RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
Walker Gillette : 11/30/2021 1:25 pm : link
In comment 15474291 Producer said:
Quote:
He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.


Can you do anything without bringing up Daniel Jones? "I'll have the Ribeye, I hear it's better than Daniel Jones" "Baby it's hard for me to get into it when you're just laying there, I mean it' still better than Daniel Jones, but C'mon"
RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
JB_in_DC : 11/30/2021 1:25 pm : link
In comment 15474291 Producer said:
Quote:
He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.



To save anyone else the trouble: over the past 5 weeks Tua has missed 1.5 starts, throwing for 866 yards (83/116), 7.47 Y/Att, 3 TDs, 2 INTs.

A reasonable person can pretty comfortably say neither the Dolphins nor the Giants can feel confident they have their QB. But sure, he's FLASHING!
RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
Producer : 11/30/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15474345 Walker Gillette said:
Quote:
In comment 15474291 Producer said:


Quote:


He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.



Can you do anything without bringing up Daniel Jones? "I'll have the Ribeye, I hear it's better than Daniel Jones" "Baby it's hard for me to get into it when you're just laying there, I mean it' still better than Daniel Jones, but C'mon"


hehehe good one
RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
Section331 : 11/30/2021 1:35 pm : link
In comment 15474346 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15474291 Producer said:


Quote:


He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.




To save anyone else the trouble: over the past 5 weeks Tua has missed 1.5 starts, throwing for 866 yards (83/116), 7.47 Y/Att, 3 TDs, 2 INTs.

A reasonable person can pretty comfortably say neither the Dolphins nor the Giants can feel confident they have their QB. But sure, he's FLASHING!


It is also fair to point out that in his last 5 starts, in which he played every snap, Jones has thrown for 50 more yards than Tua has in 3 1/2.

Many veteran QB's will say that they didn't get comfortable until around their 24th start, midway through their 2nd season as starter. I would guess that Miami is a little more comfortable than the Giants at this point.
RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
Scooter185 : 11/30/2021 1:42 pm : link
In comment 15474345 Walker Gillette said:
Quote:
In comment 15474291 Producer said:


Quote:


He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.



Can you do anything without bringing up Daniel Jones? "I'll have the Ribeye, I hear it's better than Daniel Jones"


LOL that's great. if I lived in NYC I would start ordering my steak like that just for the reactions
RE: RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
BigBlueJ : 11/30/2021 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15474381 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 15474345 Walker Gillette said:


Quote:


In comment 15474291 Producer said:


Quote:


He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.



Can you do anything without bringing up Daniel Jones? "I'll have the Ribeye, I hear it's better than Daniel Jones"



LOL that's great. if I lived in NYC I would start ordering my steak like that just for the reactions


Don't be surprised if that waiter agrees.
RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
k2tampa : 11/30/2021 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15474291 Producer said:
Quote:
He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.


Surely flashed more than Jones? Not if you look at numbers. Tagolvailoa has 21 touchdown in 18 starts. Jones had 24 in 12 starts as a rookie. Jones threw for over 3,000 in 12 starts as a rookie. Tagovailoa threw for 1,800 in 9 starts. Jones has 45 TDs in 37 starts. Tagovailoa has 21 in 16 starts. Jones has run for 1,000 yards on 172 carries, Tagovailoa has run for 177 yards on 61 carries.

The uptick in Tagovailoa this year can pretty easily be directly attributed to Waddle, who has 77 catches and is averaging 9.9 yards a catch. Give him a league average guy instead of Waddle and he would have the same numbers as last year.

You don't have to keep reminding anyone here that you hate Jones. Guys like you would have run Simms and Manning out of town.
Tua’s been somewhat better  
jeff57 : 11/30/2021 2:01 pm : link
But I’m still not sold.
RE: My neighbor is a huge Dolphins fan and told me last night  
Johnny5 : 11/30/2021 2:03 pm : link
In comment 15474296 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
verbatim the Fins season has gone like this:

* Porous OL and injuries made offensive difficult to operate
* Young QB running for his life
* Defense has most potential and playing better lately
* Poor coaching blew some early season games
* Trying to dig out of that hole

Who does that sound like?

Ha wow, that's funny. You can definitely see the similarities when you watch them.
RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
Thegratefulhead : 11/30/2021 2:05 pm : link
In comment 15474387 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15474291 Producer said:


Quote:


He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.



Surely flashed more than Jones? Not if you look at numbers. Tagolvailoa has 21 touchdown in 18 starts. Jones had 24 in 12 starts as a rookie. Jones threw for over 3,000 in 12 starts as a rookie. Tagovailoa threw for 1,800 in 9 starts. Jones has 45 TDs in 37 starts. Tagovailoa has 21 in 16 starts. Jones has run for 1,000 yards on 172 carries, Tagovailoa has run for 177 yards on 61 carries.

The uptick in Tagovailoa this year can pretty easily be directly attributed to Waddle, who has 77 catches and is averaging 9.9 yards a catch. Give him a league average guy instead of Waddle and he would have the same numbers as last year.

You don't have to keep reminding anyone here that you hate Jones. Guys like you would have run Simms and Manning out of town.
Waddle was who I wanted in the past draft with Parsons as my second choice.
RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
japanhead : 11/30/2021 2:08 pm : link
In comment 15474387 k2tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15474291 Producer said:


Quote:


He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.



Surely flashed more than Jones? Not if you look at numbers. Tagolvailoa has 21 touchdown in 18 starts. Jones had 24 in 12 starts as a rookie. Jones threw for over 3,000 in 12 starts as a rookie. Tagovailoa threw for 1,800 in 9 starts. Jones has 45 TDs in 37 starts. Tagovailoa has 21 in 16 starts. Jones has run for 1,000 yards on 172 carries, Tagovailoa has run for 177 yards on 61 carries.

The uptick in Tagovailoa this year can pretty easily be directly attributed to Waddle, who has 77 catches and is averaging 9.9 yards a catch. Give him a league average guy instead of Waddle and he would have the same numbers as last year.

You don't have to keep reminding anyone here that you hate Jones. Guys like you would have run Simms and Manning out of town.


that you have to go back to jones's rookie season to defend him is quite telling, because we all know that jones's performance and numbers over the last 26 games are utterly indefensible.

doing this is fooling no one except for his uncritical supporters and is dancing around the obvious.. tua has improved since his rookie season, whereas jones has only gotten worse.

i'm not saying tua is great, but jones's rookie season was a long time ago. you should stop referencing it to defend him.

it's a what have you done for me lately league, and jones hasn't done anything lately other than making people question whether he's a bust.

RE: RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
Johnny5 : 11/30/2021 2:15 pm : link
In comment 15474417 japanhead said:
Quote:

that you have to go back to jones's rookie season to defend him is quite telling, because we all know that jones's performance and numbers over the last 26 games are utterly indefensible.

doing this is fooling no one except for his uncritical supporters and is dancing around the obvious.. tua has improved since his rookie season, whereas jones has only gotten worse.

i'm not saying tua is great, but jones's rookie season was a long time ago. you should stop referencing it to defend him.

it's a what have you done for me lately league, and jones hasn't done anything lately other than making people question whether he's a bust.

No one is uncritical of Jones. But he looked pretty good under Shurmur minus the fumbles. And the OL they trotted out there wasn't much better than what we have now. This OL is worse due to injury IMO, but it is worse. And I don't think Garret was a fit here at all. I think Judge and Garret cleaned up his fumbling but Garret is just too conservative. I feel like Jones with better protection and in a scheme like Shurmur's could be a decent QB. That's my take anyway.
Ereck Flowers leaves Miami  
NoPeanutz : 11/30/2021 2:55 pm : link
and the MIA OL looks terrible. EF leaves NYG, and the NYG OL looks terrible.
When will these teams learn not to cut cheap all-pro linemen?
RE: RE: RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
japanhead : 11/30/2021 3:18 pm : link
In comment 15474422 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15474417 japanhead said:


Quote:



that you have to go back to jones's rookie season to defend him is quite telling, because we all know that jones's performance and numbers over the last 26 games are utterly indefensible.

doing this is fooling no one except for his uncritical supporters and is dancing around the obvious.. tua has improved since his rookie season, whereas jones has only gotten worse.

i'm not saying tua is great, but jones's rookie season was a long time ago. you should stop referencing it to defend him.

it's a what have you done for me lately league, and jones hasn't done anything lately other than making people question whether he's a bust.



No one is uncritical of Jones. But he looked pretty good under Shurmur minus the fumbles. And the OL they trotted out there wasn't much better than what we have now. This OL is worse due to injury IMO, but it is worse. And I don't think Garret was a fit here at all. I think Judge and Garret cleaned up his fumbling but Garret is just too conservative. I feel like Jones with better protection and in a scheme like Shurmur's could be a decent QB. That's my take anyway.


if jones can only look good under shurmur, then the giants should trade him to denver. jones has not looked good under the staff that is here now. maybe he turns it around now that garrett has been fired. but i kindly doubt it. here's hoping, but that's all we have with jones- clinging to the hope that he somehow improves over what he's been under the current staff.
RE: RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
compton : 11/30/2021 3:59 pm : link
In comment 15474417 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15474387 k2tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 15474291 Producer said:


Quote:


He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.



Surely flashed more than Jones? Not if you look at numbers. Tagolvailoa has 21 touchdown in 18 starts. Jones had 24 in 12 starts as a rookie. Jones threw for over 3,000 in 12 starts as a rookie. Tagovailoa threw for 1,800 in 9 starts. Jones has 45 TDs in 37 starts. Tagovailoa has 21 in 16 starts. Jones has run for 1,000 yards on 172 carries, Tagovailoa has run for 177 yards on 61 carries.

The uptick in Tagovailoa this year can pretty easily be directly attributed to Waddle, who has 77 catches and is averaging 9.9 yards a catch. Give him a league average guy instead of Waddle and he would have the same numbers as last year.

You don't have to keep reminding anyone here that you hate Jones. Guys like you would have run Simms and Manning out of town.



that you have to go back to jones's rookie season to defend him is quite telling, because we all know that jones's performance and numbers over the last 26 games are utterly indefensible.

doing this is fooling no one except for his uncritical supporters and is dancing around the obvious.. tua has improved since his rookie season, whereas jones has only gotten worse.

i'm not saying tua is great, but jones's rookie season was a long time ago. you should stop referencing it to defend him.

it's a what have you done for me lately league, and jones hasn't done anything lately other than making people question whether he's a bust.


What's also interesting is DJ had a worst line and wide receivers in his rookie year than he has now. So why did he regress. Maybe his first year was a fluke and we are now seeing the real DJ.
Can Tua throw a back shoulder?  
arniefez : 11/30/2021 4:03 pm : link
Can he look off a safety? Can he set the protection quickly enough to snap the ball before the defense readjusts? Daniel Jones can't do any of those things and they have nothing to do with a good or bad OL.
RE: RE: RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
mfsd : 11/30/2021 4:17 pm : link
In comment 15474422 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 15474417 japanhead said:


Quote:



that you have to go back to jones's rookie season to defend him is quite telling, because we all know that jones's performance and numbers over the last 26 games are utterly indefensible.

doing this is fooling no one except for his uncritical supporters and is dancing around the obvious.. tua has improved since his rookie season, whereas jones has only gotten worse.

i'm not saying tua is great, but jones's rookie season was a long time ago. you should stop referencing it to defend him.

it's a what have you done for me lately league, and jones hasn't done anything lately other than making people question whether he's a bust.



No one is uncritical of Jones. But he looked pretty good under Shurmur minus the fumbles. And the OL they trotted out there wasn't much better than what we have now. This OL is worse due to injury IMO, but it is worse. And I don't think Garret was a fit here at all. I think Judge and Garret cleaned up his fumbling but Garret is just too conservative. I feel like Jones with better protection and in a scheme like Shurmur's could be a decent QB. That's my take anyway.


Shurmur the head coach was a dud. But IMO Shurmur the OC and play caller would be much better for Jones. He calls a lot of play action, rollouts and waggles that helped Jones survive behind a shit OL with more guys running open.

Alas no point playing the what if game on that.

As for Tua, not surprised he’s finding NFL harder to adapt to. The clock on these young QBs is so fast these days, very few end up working out early on in their career

And I agree with those saying there’s a big difference between college and NFL when it comes to QB accuracy. LBs and DBs close so much faster in the pros that the window to throw into is much tighter
Producer can't make a comment  
TLong : 11/30/2021 5:19 pm : link
on any subject without taking a cheap shot at Daniel Jones.
I'll bet Jones stole his girlfriend.
I was dubious about Tua out of Bama...  
bw in dc : 11/30/2021 5:51 pm : link
and nothing he's done so far with Miami has changed that.

Don't like his size, his propensity to get injured or his arm.

But Miami has certainly played well the last month and Tua has been steadier.

In the win over the Ravens, he only threw 13X. Had a nice game against the Jets. And played decently in a home win over a spiraling Panthers team. Nothing great, just steady.

If I'm a Miami fan or a beat writer, I'm still questioning why Tua over Herbert.
mfsd  
Johnny5 : 11/30/2021 5:55 pm : link
Yep agreed, the windows close awfully fast in the NFL. It's what makes QB evaluation such a crapshoot.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/30/2021 7:04 pm : link
Never was a huge Tua fan at Alabama. Truth be told, the QB of the three (Tua, Hurts, & Jones) that I liked best was Jones. I might have gotten one right for a change! Haha.
Let Tua stick in Miami for a few more years...  
Jimmy Googs : 11/30/2021 7:20 pm : link
we don't need any more competition on drafting future QBs.
IDK...  
BillKo : 11/30/2021 7:57 pm : link
..I see the highlights of this kid and he's got average written all over him the way he plays.

I see ZERO exceptional about him.
RE: RE: His game has improved dramatically the last 5 weeks  
Grizz99 : 11/30/2021 9:20 pm : link
In comment 15474313 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15474291 Producer said:


Quote:


He may never be a top-10 guy but he has surely flashed more than many other QBs, including Daniel Jones.


Holy shit you are the most annoying SOB I’ve ever come across. Well, you and Debaser assuming you aren’t the same guy. Seems to be some uncertainty there.

You simply cannot go one thread without whining about Daniel Jones. No matter the thread or the topic, you find a way to bring him up. Do you REALY not understand just how repetitive you are? Or are you going to admit that you are trolling? Which is it? You’re either not very bright or a troll. Or both, which is likely the case.

Sorry Big Blue, that's on you. You (and most of the board) continues to honor / to recognize / to empower these Nihilisits. It's like watching Danny Dimes trying to debate with them.
They're not interested in facts, they're not interested in the Giants. They are serving an agenda. They are feeling better about themselves through denigration.
They are, generally speaking, frustrated and underappreciate (in their minds) little men living Thoreau's "life of quiet desperation".
Stop wasting you time and giving them the craved attention they so sorely need.
how is it nihilism to compare another team's QB to our QB?  
Producer : 12/1/2021 9:50 am : link
this is a New York Giants forum, not a forum dedicated to home care or pop culture or cult movies. Even a banal peep about the Giants QB - ON A GIANTS MESSAGE BOARD - sets you guys off. It is bizarre and surreal.

You guys really need to get a grip. Whenever the subject of Tua was brought up in the past there were always posters comparing Jones to Tua, and ragging on Tua. But if a poster dares to diminish Jones vs Tua you lose your fucking minds.

Here are the fucking facts. Daniel Jones is yet again underperforming, when many of you in the Jones brigade promised it would get better.

He is the same awful QB whether he has weapons, whether he has protection, whether he has Garrett or some other guy calling the plays, no matter what.

He is slow in the pocket, slow to read, robotic, inaccurate, indecisive. He is killing this fucking team. You don't see it? Then I think you know nothing about football. It is so painfully obvious. They brought in Jake fucking Fromm to finally give this terrible QB some competition - FINALLY.

The only place where Jones isn't viewed as an abject failure is here. Other objective observers will tell you how dismal this offense is under Jones' leadership. He just can't play at a high enough level. Jones is an inept checkdown artist and it is time for folks here to get a grip and stop lambasting people who have been clear on this for months if not years.
RE: I was dubious about Tua out of Bama...  
Section331 : 12/1/2021 9:56 am : link
In comment 15474768 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and nothing he's done so far with Miami has changed that.

Don't like his size, his propensity to get injured or his arm.

But Miami has certainly played well the last month and Tua has been steadier.

In the win over the Ravens, he only threw 13X. Had a nice game against the Jets. And played decently in a home win over a spiraling Panthers team. Nothing great, just steady.

If I'm a Miami fan or a beat writer, I'm still questioning why Tua over Herbert.


They'll never live down taking Tua over Herbert, but that doesn't mean Tua can't work out. His size and injuries are a concern, and if they have the chance to upgrade, they should. Not saying he's going to be the next Drew Brees, but in the right system, he can be pretty good. If he shakes loose from Miami, I could see Payton making a run at him.
We have a way of making QBs look bad lately  
Batenhorst7 : 12/1/2021 12:02 pm : link
I dont expect Tua to be our issue

Barkley is the issue and will be til Mara/Gettleman finally realize they bought a "pig in a poke".....they got snookered by a college phenom who has no stomach for the NFL game

If we cannot beat Miami we dont deserve a playoff berth PERIOD

Jones or Glennon, this should be an easy one
I liked him when they drafted him  
Spiciest Memelord : 12/1/2021 1:25 pm : link
kind of the Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes running around and throwing it sidearm mold. But lately with Herbert, Burrows and Mac Jones, I prefer more pocket passers, who are more sustainable.

He's been handled worse than Zach Wilson.
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