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The problem isn't with DJ's arm - its with his legs

ImThatGuy : 12/1/2021 1:31 pm
or lack of use.

Daniel Jones is an (above)average pocket passer who throws a really nice deep ball. Stares down receivers too often, but give him a some time in the pocket and he's ok. You can win with that. But everyone knows his best advantage is his running ability (and sometimes that correlates with giving him time).

In the games before the Dallas injury, he was running the ball ~7 times/game and since then its been about 4. Look back at our wins last season (there weren't many) and he's carrying the ball 7-10 times/game. If you want to protect your no. 1 pick because of injuries (concussion, ankle etc.), I get that. But If you aren't letting your best offensive players use his best asset, then there you are putting your team in a position to win.

And ... you still have to keep him because who are you going to get that is better?

(because we need another DJ thread)
the problem isn't with DJs arm or legs, it's with his brain.  
japanhead : 12/1/2021 1:35 pm : link
he is an injury risk every time he runs. just this year he gave himself a concussion and now a neck injury from making stupid decisions on his runs.

i like that he seems somewhat fearless, but while that is admirable, it is also a detriment.

he just does not play smart football.
Jones is not an above average pocket passer  
Go Terps : 12/1/2021 1:36 pm : link
.
It's the offensive line y'all  
mattlawson : 12/1/2021 1:39 pm : link
Not having the ability to run the ball unless it's of his own effort is killing this team. Not being able to rely on pass blocking is an issue. The play calls are conservative as if the team is talented and capable to block. They arent. They cant.

That said DJ is not elevating the team above their capabilities. But we all saw the last superbowl with Mahomes what happens when you have the talk of the league at QB with a suspect oline - its awful.
The issue is that he doesn't know when to slide/avoid the big hit  
gersh : 12/1/2021 1:43 pm : link
You can chalk it up to competetiveness, but it's a not a recipe for longevity.

You can add to that his lack of ability to consistently slide in the pocket to avoid pressure while looking downfield.
I admired Brady's oerformance against us in the SBs  
Spiciest Memelord : 12/1/2021 1:44 pm : link
our pass rush was a bunch of hair on fire long limbed rushers hornets nets in the playoffs but he never panicked and wasn't too far away from gutting it out in both SBs.
What can we find fualt with next?  
Beer Man : 12/1/2021 1:45 pm : link
Hmmm. How about his diet and choice in women, maybe his dog?
In SUnday's game  
Now Mike in MD : 12/1/2021 1:53 pm : link
I counted three throws DJ missed -- the fade to KG, the slant to KG, and the throw behind to Ross, which Ross caught. I also saw a number of very tight widow throws. Call me crazy, but a QB who misses three throws an entire game has played pretty well So for anyone saying he played poorly SUnday, what is your claim based on?
RE: the problem isn't with DJs arm or legs, it's with his brain.  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 12/1/2021 1:57 pm : link
In comment 15475873 japanhead said:
Quote:
he is an injury risk every time he runs. just this year he gave himself a concussion and now a neck injury from making stupid decisions on his runs.

i like that he seems somewhat fearless, but while that is admirable, it is also a detriment.

he just does not play smart football.


Totally agree with this post.

The problem with Jones is that his football IQ and instincts are way below average.

His best asset being his legs may be true, but his lack of improvisation skills keeps it from being a true weapon. He can do designed runs pretty well, but as mentioned he isn't durable so it needs to be limited. I get wanting to utilize his running more but it's just asking for more injuries. Cam Newton is built like superhero, but look at how his career has played out after all that physical wear and tear from running.
RE: It's the offensive line y'all  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/1/2021 1:58 pm : link
In comment 15475876 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Not having the ability to run the ball unless it's of his own effort is killing this team. Not being able to rely on pass blocking is an issue. The play calls are conservative as if the team is talented and capable to block. They arent. They cant.

That said DJ is not elevating the team above their capabilities. But we all saw the last superbowl with Mahomes what happens when you have the talk of the league at QB with a suspect oline - its awful.

OL sucks and has sucked for 10 years
Passes to Golladay  
Debaser : 12/1/2021 2:01 pm : link
Show a complete lack of versatility as a passer. I m not sure what he was even doing . i don't think he knows. I am sure Kitchen told him "Throw to Golladay more in the end zone boy" And what DJ came away from that is just throwing it and hitting the cornerback in the back both times.

He has no concept of throwing a jump ball, a fade; thrwoing someone open; throwing it up high where only Golladay can get it.
RE: It's the offensive line y'all  
ImThatGuy : 12/1/2021 2:02 pm : link
In comment 15475876 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Not having the ability to run the ball unless it's of his own effort is killing this team. Not being able to rely on pass blocking is an issue. The play calls are conservative as if the team is talented and capable to block. They arent. They cant.

That said DJ is not elevating the team above their capabilities. But we all saw the last superbowl with Mahomes what happens when you have the talk of the league at QB with a suspect oline - its awful.


for sure
RE: RE: the problem isn't with DJs arm or legs, it's with his brain.  
ImThatGuy : 12/1/2021 2:05 pm : link
In comment 15475906 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:


His best asset being his legs may be true, but his lack of improvisation skills keeps it from being a true weapon.=


He's got no time to improv. Numerous times in recent games I saw our DL giving Brady, Hurts and others ~10 seconds to throw. Give him that time and he'll run all over, agree he'll never be Lamar Jackson but he can still run
RE: Passes to Golladay  
ImThatGuy : 12/1/2021 2:08 pm : link
In comment 15475911 Debaser said:
Quote:

He has no concept of throwing a jump ball, a fade; thrwoing someone open; throwing it up high where only Golladay can get it.


And what he's had 5 games to throw Kenny the ball? Plax and Eli had more time to gel and Plax >>>>> Kenny
Osi and japan +1  
JonC : 12/1/2021 2:11 pm : link
The problem is DJ doesn't see the whole field, can't read defenses and make good decisions consistently, especially beyond the first read. Watching him play you can almost feel his tunnel vision, just too many average or below instincts and football IQ.
RE: Passes to Golladay  
Toth029 : 12/1/2021 2:21 pm : link
In comment 15475911 Debaser said:
Quote:
Show a complete lack of versatility as a passer. I m not sure what he was even doing . i don't think he knows. I am sure Kitchen told him "Throw to Golladay more in the end zone boy" And what DJ came away from that is just throwing it and hitting the cornerback in the back both times.

He has no concept of throwing a jump ball, a fade; thrwoing someone open; throwing it up high where only Golladay can get it.
p
Funny he did those just fine his rookie year.
fixed this for ya  
I Love Clams Casino : 12/1/2021 2:28 pm : link
The problem isn't with DJ's arm - its with his legs head
RE: RE: the problem isn't with DJs arm or legs, it's with his brain.  
AcidTest : 12/1/2021 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15475906 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
In comment 15475873 japanhead said:


Quote:


he is an injury risk every time he runs. just this year he gave himself a concussion and now a neck injury from making stupid decisions on his runs.

i like that he seems somewhat fearless, but while that is admirable, it is also a detriment.

he just does not play smart football.



Totally agree with this post.

The problem with Jones is that his football IQ and instincts are way below average.

His best asset being his legs may be true, but his lack of improvisation skills keeps it from being a true weapon. He can do designed runs pretty well, but as mentioned he isn't durable so it needs to be limited. I get wanting to utilize his running more but it's just asking for more injuries. Cam Newton is built like superhero, but look at how his career has played out after all that physical wear and tear from running.


+2.
Daniel Jones isn't an above average pocket passer  
Producer : 12/1/2021 2:54 pm : link
He is a below average pocket passer. This is what is infuriating, and why it needs to be repeated.

Jones is terrible in the pocket. all his numbers tell you this. Every bit of the eye test tells you this.

He has no rhythm. He doesn't see open receivers. he's inaccurate. He has just passable arm strength. He checks down too routinely. He locks on receivers. He isn't good at the line. he is slow on progressions. He can't move well in the pocket. It's ridiculous. You guys don't know what you are seeing.
I've defended Jones plenty  
mittenedman : 12/1/2021 3:01 pm : link
but I was furious with him on those fade passes.

Jones is apparently an incredible basketball player too. Like maybe could've played college bball.

How can a guy who is really good at basketball not understand how to throw a back-shoulder fade? It's essentially a post entry pass.

I was also upset with Golladay on those plays too. He definitely could've caught both of them. Would've been great catches, but he's a #1 WR in the NFL. He's expected to make great catches. He looked like he didn't even want the ball.
the most underappreciated talent  
djm : 12/1/2021 3:12 pm : link
one needs to succeed in the NFL, probably has many different names, call it field vision, awareness...whatever, Jones can't see the field.

Or, he's risk adverse, scared shitless, afraid to attack one on one coverage, who the hell knows. All I know is Jones misses WRs who are open or at least better options that dumping the ball into a pile of bodies on 4th and short.

Bottom line is QBs and HCs are defined by the moment. That moment in a game or season that shapes wins or losses. And Jones isn't delivering enough in those moments. Yes he needs help as any QB would, and yes he isn't always getting the most help, but once in a while you need to hang 30 when 30 wins the game or hang 26 when 26 wins the game or get that first down when a drive can save the game.

He could run more. He could throw more. Whatever, just make plays because this isn't cutting it.
Jones is stiff  
djm : 12/1/2021 3:15 pm : link
the fade passes that look I threw it fresh off the street. The lack of wiggle when wiggle gets him 6 yards instead of 5 and a punt. He's just not the most reactive or get it done type player and unless the team has the OL and structure in place to support a player like Jones, he's going to suck here.

Blame the whole fucking mess for all I care. I just know this ain't working.
Neither  
Thegratefulhead : 12/1/2021 3:16 pm : link
It is the space between his ears that is the problem.
RE: I've defended Jones plenty  
Producer : 12/1/2021 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15475964 mittenedman said:
Quote:
but I was furious with him on those fade passes.

Jones is apparently an incredible basketball player too. Like maybe could've played college bball.

How can a guy who is really good at basketball not understand how to throw a back-shoulder fade? It's essentially a post entry pass.

I was also upset with Golladay on those plays too. He definitely could've caught both of them. Would've been great catches, but he's a #1 WR in the NFL. He's expected to make great catches. He looked like he didn't even want the ball.


and it is not just the fades. It's everything to Golladay. All the throws to Golladay seem a second late, and there is tighter coverage when the ball arrives. And when the ball arrives it's in a random spot, not to the spot where it gives Golladay the best chance to catch the ball. Just because Golladay is good at contested catches doesn't mean he can get it any old place. If the back shoulder is open, that's where it needs to go, not to the knees or the other side of the body.

Engram catches a lot of shit for boning catches, and it is well deserved, but Jones made a lot of those catches a lot harder by not spotting the ball properly.

Of course, any QB will bone a throw and put it in the wrong spot. But with Jones, it is the rule, not the exception.
Its simple minded to think we should have draft  
Spiciest Memelord : 12/1/2021 3:47 pm : link
a Peyton Manning/Aaron Rogers clone that makes presnap reads motions audibles plays and line protection chess match makes a post snap read back shoulder pass down the field looks off safeties 5 route progression both sides of the field climbs and shifts in the pocket every play.

Coaches like Pederson and McVay are more forward thinking in simplifying the game for their young QB, along with some success in Baltimore and Arizona along the same lines. Otherwise you're QB will be seeing ghosts going up against a Belichick defense.
he's now learning to step up  
BCD : 12/1/2021 4:05 pm : link
in the pocket on a good pass rush instead of taking 2 more step backward and trying to spin right or left into trouble ....it work very well last game.
RE: Its simple minded to think we should have draft  
NoGainDayne : 12/1/2021 4:13 pm : link
In comment 15476030 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
a Peyton Manning/Aaron Rogers clone that makes presnap reads motions audibles plays and line protection chess match makes a post snap read back shoulder pass down the field looks off safeties 5 route progression both sides of the field climbs and shifts in the pocket every play.

Coaches like Pederson and McVay are more forward thinking in simplifying the game for their young QB, along with some success in Baltimore and Arizona along the same lines. Otherwise you're QB will be seeing ghosts going up against a Belichick defense.


People that are trying to defend DJ tend to lean on these kind of absolutes. Plenty of QBs not named Manning or Rodgers have done better than DJ. The big problem that you seem to ignore is that when the Giants drafted him they justified overdrafting him by talking about his smarts and work ethic. So yeah, the implication was that they were going to get someone who at least was decent at doing that type of thing. Not the horrible, horrible QB he is with that. It's a huge scouting whiff.
Eh  
Spiciest Memelord : 12/1/2021 4:35 pm : link
its a lot like screaming David Carr or Sam Darnold is a bad quarterback.
Right out of the gate...  
bw in dc : 12/1/2021 4:35 pm : link
the OP is wrong:

Quote:
Daniel Jones is an (above)average pocket passer who throws a really nice deep ball.


Jones is not an "above average pocket passer." NFW. He's a below average pocket passer. For crissakes, his QBR is at 40 and dropping.

I can't prove this, but my intuition is that a super-high % of the time Jones runs the play called in and doesn't have the football acumen to get the team into a better opportunity based on changing coverage. And that is a major reason why Jones has those moments when he looks rushed. He's too slow to process and adjust.
Jones' problems have nothing to do with physical ability  
Chris L. : 12/1/2021 5:39 pm : link
his shortcomings (which are not correctable) come from his inability to process information quickly. NFL QB's need to process lots of information in a very short period of time.
I have no idea why he won't slide feet first, on his butt.  
CT Charlie : 12/1/2021 11:44 pm : link
If nothing else, by this point in his career you'd think survival instincts would kick in.
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