As a penn stater, I can't believe Walker rates so high. It almost reminds me of Levi Brown. Every week we'd watch him struggle mightily. He didn't look like an NFL player much less a top 5 pick. He stank in the NFL and so will Walker
of the first round picks to accumulate more picks in this draft or more importantly the 2023 draft. If they’re truly in the QB market and there’s better prospects the next year, leverage one of the firsts into multiple firsts again.
of the first round picks to accumulate more picks in this draft or more importantly the 2023 draft.
Next GM should probably consider trading both first round picks for more Day 2/3 picks and 2023 picks. The top of this draft class is not shaping up to be world-class studs outside of top 5 picks. Maybe the next GM will want to take a shot on a unicorn athlete in top 10, but most of the current roster is only under contract through 2023 and Giants will need to restock at multiple positions relatively soon including OL, DL, DB, RB, TE, LB and possibly QB. Would you rather have 2 players in top 10 or 4-6 players in top 60? I would prefer the latter b/c I think the Giants are at least 1-2 years from having enough home-grown talent to build a sustainable winning football team.
There will be some strong defensive players in this draft, and I think we need more speed.
I’d hope the Giants spend a 2nd / and/or a a third day pick on an offensive lineman, maybe grab a guy thru FA, and see if the injured players can make it back healthy.
I’m hoping the first round produces Nakobe Dean and David Orono, two speedy linebackers.
That's where you start (and where it's looking like where there's first tire quality among the best 15 draft day players).
Thomas has figured out NFL play, and will shine next year; LG is a gaping hole, only real hope is Gates (if his career is not over after injury); Center Billy Price is finally starting to show he belongs; RG Hernandez was a disaster against Tampa but that's not him, he'll be Ok with a real OT on his right side; that's where the emphasis of this draft should be ...
Bama's Evan Neal is a stud, probably the best pure athlete playing the line since JPP. Book end offensive linemen will makes Jone look 100% better and Saquon look like himself after taking the full two years to heal from his ACL
There will be some strong defensive players in this draft, and I think we need more speed.
I’d hope the Giants spend a 2nd / and/or a a third day pick on an offensive lineman, maybe grab a guy thru FA, and see if the injured players can make it back healthy.
I’m hoping the first round produces Nakobe Dean and David Orono, two speedy linebackers.
Linderbaum isn’t an OT. He’s the best OC in the draft and one of the better prospects in a long time. What are you referring to?
Trade down 8 or 9 spots, sure. But I can’t think of a center ever going in the top 10, at least in my lifetime. He’d need to make the all decade team to justify that.
He’s also a bit undersized so definitely not a “perfect center prospect”
And I was also pro-drafting Nelson in 2018 but he was even more dominant AND had all of the measurables
Trade down 8 or 9 spots, sure. But I can’t think of a center ever going in the top 10, at least in my lifetime. He’d need to make the all decade team to justify that.
He’s also a bit undersized so definitely not a “perfect center prospect”
And I was also pro-drafting Nelson in 2018 but he was even more dominant AND had all of the measurables
It’s not crazy when you consider the interior OL over the past decade. He’s got plenty of frame to fill out in the program. Do you really think the Colts (Nelson 6th) or Cowboys (Martin 16th) regret taking them?
With the exception of LT, OC is the most important position on the line. With the first 2 picks I’m taking players who combine the highest ceiling possible, while also building this team properly, once and for all. Enough with the swings and misses
the best available talent if the Giants stick with their 2 #1 picks, and don't trade up or down, might well be ER's. Thibodeaux will be gone, of course, but it's possible both Hutchinson and Karlaftis will be there. But I don't know how either would fit in a 3-4.
Trade down 8 or 9 spots, sure. But I can’t think of a center ever going in the top 10, at least in my lifetime. He’d need to make the all decade team to justify that.
He’s also a bit undersized so definitely not a “perfect center prospect”
And I was also pro-drafting Nelson in 2018 but he was even more dominant AND had all of the measurables
every stud center coming out the last how many years has been picked late 1st or 2nd round. i agree, way too early for center.
the thing about these picks as well is salary. we need to be mindful of the pay and pay they will be demanding should they be good picks and we need to resign.
would be hard to say 2 top contracts are a guard and a center in a few years.
3 to 7 picks to get extra 2nd or 3rd Rd pick. Now will the Jets help out by going Secondary with their first two picks?
Without a trade they need to see if the available Edge is better than the top two OL or go Edge/OL. Need to see the first five picks be at least two OL, then Edge/DL/LB, but hope a small trade back allows these to include a third OL.
when you continuously trade down. The idea is not to collect picks, but to find foundational players.
Last year, we potentially gave up on selecting such a player by trading down. Many people here said as recently as this week who the Giants SHOULD have picked instead of trading down.
So, rather than use the draft pick we got in last years' trade to select a top prospect, we should kick the can the road some more (by trading down again) and take a guy next year?
At some point you have to actually improve your roster.
And don't swing and miss on them they'll have a top 5 line in the league instantly.
If Thomas is the only current O-line player worth keeping and we were to use our two first rounders on the OL, who is manning the other two spots? I don't think we can count on Gates coming back next year so we will still need to fill two more spots. I think the likely hood is we will see an offensive tackle taken with one of the firsts and and edge rusher with the other.
but not seeing an OT who will grade out that high, and I'd wager both picks will be used on positions besides interior OL. Also, UFA occurs before the draft and I think they would prefer to get a couple of young vets using that route so they're more prepared to step into the lineup.
Have to be OL, unless one of the 2 insane stud pass rushers drop (they wont).
Regardless of the GM hire, this is the easiest draft in history for whomever comes in, the 2 most NFL ready lineman, regardless of position, or a miracle edge drop. You dont trade either of these picks to stack 2nd and 3rd round picks of non impact players. This team needs Alpha studs on OL and DL, and LB. Make the picks.
Doesn't mean you have addressed the situation. We spent a 3rd on Peart and he can't beat out Soldier. Flowers was supposed to be our OLT of the future and can't play the position. I'd much prefer high value in round 2 than a reach in round 1. Not sayin that's the way it will play out, but some here just want Oline, good player or not.
If that’s Hutchinson and Kyle Hamilton so be it. A good GM hire should be able to find starting OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds; every other team does it.
I'm not a O-line or bust guy, but I do believe that this Neal from Bama is a stud (top 5 quality).
Ideally, we come out of this with two top 10 players at offensive tackle and edge with our two 1st round picks. We just did good getting Toney and Ojulari, we do even better this next time.
As a penn stater, I can't believe Walker rates so high. It almost reminds me of Levi Brown. Every week we'd watch him struggle mightily. He didn't look like an NFL player much less a top 5 pick. He stank in the NFL and so will Walker
Walter Football is awful. I wouldn't pay any attention to their "analysis."
will almost certainly not be OL, you're setting yourself up to be annoyed. UFA comes first.
Yup, couldn't agree more. I don't think it's going to be there unless it's forced. The center from Iowa is the only OL I would consider. It's funny, the current offensive line has 3 first round picks.
I think there will be some really good defensive players that will be hard to pass up.
I'm not a O-line or bust guy, but I do believe that this Neal from Bama is a stud (top 5 quality).
Ideally, we come out of this with two top 10 players at offensive tackle and edge with our two 1st round picks. We just did good getting Toney and Ojulari, we do even better this next time.
He's really not, I don't even think he'll make it on then left side.
One of the first two picks will most certainly be Offensive Line.
Not sure how much can really be spent in free agency next year to anybody of real quality. If cannot, really should try to find an immediate starter in the draft and that means Rd 1.
and if they finally shore up RT and C, the OGs should look much better as well. Definitely don't need five first rounders or pro bowlers to create a sound OL. They cannot rest on laurels with Gates, Lemieux, Hernandez, or their current RTs.
Picking up somebody's else discarded first rounders
Even if done well it will probably take two more years to get this line situated due to likely cap limitations in 2022. I would look to add a moderately priced Guard in free agency who undoubtedly would be better than what we have right now. Let Skura, Bredseson and Lemieux battle it out for the other spot.
Put another Tackle and a seasoned Center on this roster from the 2022 draft. Should be able to do that by Day 2, even if have to do some trading around. Let them compete for jobs as rookies and move starting roles in 2023 (hopefully).
I know center traditionally isn't targeted high in the first round, but I feel like it's the most important position on the line.
A center from Iowa that was just named Big Ten OL of the year...
He is a beast. Best prospect at the position in years.
I dont care if he is valued at 15-20-25 - if we have the 10th pick and take him, he is an all pro type player. So who cares if we take him 5 spots earlier?
We have learned there is no guarantee ever trading back.
I'm not a O-line or bust guy, but I do believe that this Neal from Bama is a stud (top 5 quality).
Ideally, we come out of this with two top 10 players at offensive tackle and edge with our two 1st round picks. We just did good getting Toney and Ojulari, we do even better this next time.
THR currently has Neal as the #2 draft prospect in their perception of NFL ranking consensus. Of course, it doesn't mean it is, and all of this will change anyway before the draft. But he may be gone before the Giants get to pick if the NFL sees him as a stud LT. And what happens to Andrews? I don't know that you spend picks as high as the Giants on any OL except LT. (Unless, of course, they're "a generational talent" but I think we've had enough of those.)
as drafting a position to high if you draft the right player
over-drafting an OG/OC only occurs if you don't draft a pro bowl player.
if the OC projects to be a all pro then fking draft him.
draft studs. if a STUD mlb is on the board--- fking draft him- just because hes not an "edge"- who gives a sh$t. this team needs studs
If I were a GM and someone used the word "need" I'd kick them out of the war room on draft day.
There is no position except kickker where the Giants do not have a need. With few exceptions the policy should be to draft players and not positions.
The Giants don't need an OT or EDGE any more than they need a quarterback, a tight end, or a bunch of other positions.
I'm going to beg to differ here. Need should absolutely be a decision variable. It's still comes down to picking a player who can produce at a high level. Because BPA prospects can be missed, too. That's what gets lost in the sauce here. Like taking BPA is any easier...
In the end, you have to pick a productive player.
Let's take Kyle Hamilton, the S out of ND. He is going to be ranked very highly. And he might be on the board when we select as a BPA. Would you be comfortable using a lottery pick on a S if he's clearly the highest rated player on our board?
As long they are not useless picks for a sinking team
If Hamilton is the best prospect on the board according to our scouts, I'm fine with it. We'll have more picks and FA resources (after clearing out Gettleman's mess) to improve other areas.
I don't view the draft process in terms of specific picks. I think drafting is about scouting. There needs to be an overall goal statement in place for what the Giants want to be, and under that goal statement there needs to be an objective related to what types of players we target in the draft - something that guides the scouts in what types of players they look for.
Over a series of years, that type of plan implemented by competent scouts (do we have competent scouts?) will yield the talent pipeline we need.
If we had a good system like that in place and that system says to draft Hamilton - go do it.
To me drafting is about plans and policies - once those are in place the system should be an efficient machine that runs itself.
We definitely need an overhaul in the way evaluations and decision are made. Much preferably a voice/voices that can't be traced back to the Giants Way. Decision makers who understand the modern game, accounting for position value in the draft, hit rate % on certain positions in the draft, cap management, etc.
I'm going Captain Obvious here, but at the end of the year I would imagine you sit down, take inventory, identify your strengths and weakness and devise a plan to improve those weakens by (1) deciding who you keep or move from the roster, (2) organize a free agent target list for your needs and (3) develop a draft strategy based on how you managed (1) and (2).
For example, if you think you hit it out of the park in the free agency window, leverage the draft more for BPA based on position value. If you missed out on targeted free agents and/or lost key pieces on your roster, use the draft to find the best players in the those positions of need. If you really like a play at a position and it requires a trade up and giving up assets, do it. If you have a situation where the differences in player rankings is marginal, move down to acquire more picks knowing you can still get a player that fits.
Look at the Chargers heading into 2021. It was clear that Herbert was playing behind an poor OL despite producing great #s. So Team Chargers set up a plan to solve the problem - signed C Corey Linsley from Green Bay (great player) and a long term solution at LT by drafting Slater with their first round pick. Now they have an improved OL and Herbert is leading the league in QBR. A plan well executed...
Whatever the situation, I think we agree it still goes back to having a much better evaluation system and a team of decision makers who know how to optimize the system.
Depending upon what’s available of course
Fix OL at least 2 players
2 way TE
DL help
Neal (if available) and Linderbaum. OG afterwards, such as Green, Johnson or Salyer. Fortify the line, once and for all and build outwards from there
Next GM should probably consider trading both first round picks for more Day 2/3 picks and 2023 picks. The top of this draft class is not shaping up to be world-class studs outside of top 5 picks. Maybe the next GM will want to take a shot on a unicorn athlete in top 10, but most of the current roster is only under contract through 2023 and Giants will need to restock at multiple positions relatively soon including OL, DL, DB, RB, TE, LB and possibly QB. Would you rather have 2 players in top 10 or 4-6 players in top 60? I would prefer the latter b/c I think the Giants are at least 1-2 years from having enough home-grown talent to build a sustainable winning football team.
There will be some strong defensive players in this draft, and I think we need more speed.
I’d hope the Giants spend a 2nd / and/or a a third day pick on an offensive lineman, maybe grab a guy thru FA, and see if the injured players can make it back healthy.
I’m hoping the first round produces Nakobe Dean and David Orono, two speedy linebackers.
That's where you start (and where it's looking like where there's first tire quality among the best 15 draft day players).
Thomas has figured out NFL play, and will shine next year; LG is a gaping hole, only real hope is Gates (if his career is not over after injury); Center Billy Price is finally starting to show he belongs; RG Hernandez was a disaster against Tampa but that's not him, he'll be Ok with a real OT on his right side; that's where the emphasis of this draft should be ...
Bama's Evan Neal is a stud, probably the best pure athlete playing the line since JPP. Book end offensive linemen will makes Jone look 100% better and Saquon look like himself after taking the full two years to heal from his ACL
That IS Crazy !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11QBRirXSm4
There will be some strong defensive players in this draft, and I think we need more speed.
I’d hope the Giants spend a 2nd / and/or a a third day pick on an offensive lineman, maybe grab a guy thru FA, and see if the injured players can make it back healthy.
I’m hoping the first round produces Nakobe Dean and David Orono, two speedy linebackers.
Linderbaum isn’t an OT. He’s the best OC in the draft and one of the better prospects in a long time. What are you referring to?
He’s also a bit undersized so definitely not a “perfect center prospect”
And I was also pro-drafting Nelson in 2018 but he was even more dominant AND had all of the measurables
He’s also a bit undersized so definitely not a “perfect center prospect”
And I was also pro-drafting Nelson in 2018 but he was even more dominant AND had all of the measurables
It’s not crazy when you consider the interior OL over the past decade. He’s got plenty of frame to fill out in the program. Do you really think the Colts (Nelson 6th) or Cowboys (Martin 16th) regret taking them?
With the exception of LT, OC is the most important position on the line. With the first 2 picks I’m taking players who combine the highest ceiling possible, while also building this team properly, once and for all. Enough with the swings and misses
He’s also a bit undersized so definitely not a “perfect center prospect”
And I was also pro-drafting Nelson in 2018 but he was even more dominant AND had all of the measurables
every stud center coming out the last how many years has been picked late 1st or 2nd round. i agree, way too early for center.
the thing about these picks as well is salary. we need to be mindful of the pay and pay they will be demanding should they be good picks and we need to resign.
would be hard to say 2 top contracts are a guard and a center in a few years.
Without a trade they need to see if the available Edge is better than the top two OL or go Edge/OL. Need to see the first five picks be at least two OL, then Edge/DL/LB, but hope a small trade back allows these to include a third OL.
Last year, we potentially gave up on selecting such a player by trading down. Many people here said as recently as this week who the Giants SHOULD have picked instead of trading down.
So, rather than use the draft pick we got in last years' trade to select a top prospect, we should kick the can the road some more (by trading down again) and take a guy next year?
At some point you have to actually improve your roster.
Center Billy Price is finally starting to show he belongs;
What games are you watching that Billy Price shows he belongs? He is hands down, pun intended, the worst OL on the team.
If Thomas is the only current O-line player worth keeping and we were to use our two first rounders on the OL, who is manning the other two spots? I don't think we can count on Gates coming back next year so we will still need to fill two more spots. I think the likely hood is we will see an offensive tackle taken with one of the firsts and and edge rusher with the other.
Regardless of the GM hire, this is the easiest draft in history for whomever comes in, the 2 most NFL ready lineman, regardless of position, or a miracle edge drop. You dont trade either of these picks to stack 2nd and 3rd round picks of non impact players. This team needs Alpha studs on OL and DL, and LB. Make the picks.
We have to get OL and pass rush help.
I'm not a O-line or bust guy, but I do believe that this Neal from Bama is a stud (top 5 quality).
Ideally, we come out of this with two top 10 players at offensive tackle and edge with our two 1st round picks. We just did good getting Toney and Ojulari, we do even better this next time.
Walter Football is awful. I wouldn't pay any attention to their "analysis."
Yup, couldn't agree more. I don't think it's going to be there unless it's forced. The center from Iowa is the only OL I would consider. It's funny, the current offensive line has 3 first round picks.
I think there will be some really good defensive players that will be hard to pass up.
I'm not a O-line or bust guy, but I do believe that this Neal from Bama is a stud (top 5 quality).
Ideally, we come out of this with two top 10 players at offensive tackle and edge with our two 1st round picks. We just did good getting Toney and Ojulari, we do even better this next time.
He's really not, I don't even think he'll make it on then left side.
That's Ok. We're set on the left side with Thomas, right side is the worry.
Even if done well it will probably take two more years to get this line situated due to likely cap limitations in 2022. I would look to add a moderately priced Guard in free agency who undoubtedly would be better than what we have right now. Let Skura, Bredseson and Lemieux battle it out for the other spot.
Put another Tackle and a seasoned Center on this roster from the 2022 draft. Should be able to do that by Day 2, even if have to do some trading around. Let them compete for jobs as rookies and move starting roles in 2023 (hopefully).
A center from Iowa that was just named Big Ten OL of the year...
A center from Iowa that was just named Big Ten OL of the year...
He is a beast. Best prospect at the position in years.
I dont care if he is valued at 15-20-25 - if we have the 10th pick and take him, he is an all pro type player. So who cares if we take him 5 spots earlier?
We have learned there is no guarantee ever trading back.
The one real mistake would be passing up these huge needs for a supposed stud at some other position.
There is no position except kickker where the Giants do not have a need. With few exceptions the policy should be to draft players and not positions.
The Giants don't need an OT or EDGE any more than they need a quarterback, a tight end, or a bunch of other positions.
I'm not a O-line or bust guy, but I do believe that this Neal from Bama is a stud (top 5 quality).
Ideally, we come out of this with two top 10 players at offensive tackle and edge with our two 1st round picks. We just did good getting Toney and Ojulari, we do even better this next time.
THR currently has Neal as the #2 draft prospect in their perception of NFL ranking consensus. Of course, it doesn't mean it is, and all of this will change anyway before the draft. But he may be gone before the Giants get to pick if the NFL sees him as a stud LT. And what happens to Andrews? I don't know that you spend picks as high as the Giants on any OL except LT. (Unless, of course, they're "a generational talent" but I think we've had enough of those.)
That's Ok. We're set on the left side with Thomas, right side is the worry.
If he's available when we pick, you would have to be comfortable with idea he'd play right tackle or guard.
Otherwise, I do think the defense needs to add some speed to it, mainly on the edge.
over-drafting an OG/OC only occurs if you don't draft a pro bowl player.
if the OC projects to be a all pro then fking draft him.
draft studs. if a STUD mlb is on the board--- fking draft him- just because hes not an "edge"- who gives a sh$t. this team needs studs
There is no position except kickker where the Giants do not have a need. With few exceptions the policy should be to draft players and not positions.
The Giants don't need an OT or EDGE any more than they need a quarterback, a tight end, or a bunch of other positions.
I'm going to beg to differ here. Need should absolutely be a decision variable. It's still comes down to picking a player who can produce at a high level. Because BPA prospects can be missed, too. That's what gets lost in the sauce here. Like taking BPA is any easier...
In the end, you have to pick a productive player.
Let's take Kyle Hamilton, the S out of ND. He is going to be ranked very highly. And he might be on the board when we select as a BPA. Would you be comfortable using a lottery pick on a S if he's clearly the highest rated player on our board?
So many mocks looking at safeties and Corners. Not exactly positions you create a brilliant franchise around again in an important draft.
I don't view the draft process in terms of specific picks. I think drafting is about scouting. There needs to be an overall goal statement in place for what the Giants want to be, and under that goal statement there needs to be an objective related to what types of players we target in the draft - something that guides the scouts in what types of players they look for.
Over a series of years, that type of plan implemented by competent scouts (do we have competent scouts?) will yield the talent pipeline we need.
If we had a good system like that in place and that system says to draft Hamilton - go do it.
To me drafting is about plans and policies - once those are in place the system should be an efficient machine that runs itself.
I'm going Captain Obvious here, but at the end of the year I would imagine you sit down, take inventory, identify your strengths and weakness and devise a plan to improve those weakens by (1) deciding who you keep or move from the roster, (2) organize a free agent target list for your needs and (3) develop a draft strategy based on how you managed (1) and (2).
For example, if you think you hit it out of the park in the free agency window, leverage the draft more for BPA based on position value. If you missed out on targeted free agents and/or lost key pieces on your roster, use the draft to find the best players in the those positions of need. If you really like a play at a position and it requires a trade up and giving up assets, do it. If you have a situation where the differences in player rankings is marginal, move down to acquire more picks knowing you can still get a player that fits.
Look at the Chargers heading into 2021. It was clear that Herbert was playing behind an poor OL despite producing great #s. So Team Chargers set up a plan to solve the problem - signed C Corey Linsley from Green Bay (great player) and a long term solution at LT by drafting Slater with their first round pick. Now they have an improved OL and Herbert is leading the league in QBR. A plan well executed...
Whatever the situation, I think we agree it still goes back to having a much better evaluation system and a team of decision makers who know how to optimize the system.