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NFT: ***Official putting together an Audiophile system***

Grey Pilgrim : 12/2/2021 12:40 pm
I've been wanting to upgrade my system for a long time now.

My system currently consists of a pair of B& W 630's, an old Denon 50 watt reciever (DRA-550) from the mid 80's, and a Marantz 5004 cd player. I'm pretty happy with all three.

I'm looking to get back into vinyl and The Project Debut Carbon turntable was recommended. I listened to it but wasn't amazed by it. So I sent it back.

I then called my local audio store and the salesman said that if the system sounds good with cds but not with the turntable then the weak link is probably the phono pre amp.

So, he recommended the NAD C388 integrated amp which has the added benefit of more power (150 watts per channel) and bluetooth as well (something I definitely want). He did qualify it by saying that reciever/amp technology hasn't changed much over the years.

He also recommended an upgrade of the turntable cartridge to the Sumiko Rainier.

Just thinking out loud. I'd be open to adding a bluetooth and a new phono preamp to the Denon, but I'm not sure if that would be better.

TIA
..  
Named Later : 12/2/2021 1:13 pm : link
Does that local Audio store have a Listening Room?? Can your salesman friend patch together that exact system for you ??

Bring your favorite albums with you and trust your ears.

Also, how old are your speakers ?? Those cone surrounds do wear out over time, and this was demonstrated to me recently. I had to 'trade-in' my trusty JBL's rather than put new surround foam on them. I bought PSB Speakers and I'm very happy with them.


Audio  
cuty suzuki : 12/2/2021 1:23 pm : link
I would upgrade the preamp and cartridge. Buy a turntable without a cartridge if possible. Then get a good cartridge to use with it.
RE: ..  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/2/2021 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15477017 Named Later said:
Quote:
Does that local Audio store have a Listening Room?? Can your salesman friend patch together that exact system for you ??

Bring your favorite albums with you and trust your ears.

Also, how old are your speakers ?? Those cone surrounds do wear out over time, and this was demonstrated to me recently. I had to 'trade-in' my trusty JBL's rather than put new surround foam on them. I bought PSB Speakers and I'm very happy with them.



Unfortunately, The Showroom is under construction.

Agree that for vinyl the cartridge is key,  
CT Charlie : 12/2/2021 1:47 pm : link
but I have no idea what's available now. Back in the day, Stanton was a solid mid-level choice.
.  
winoguy : 12/2/2021 2:14 pm : link
I would hang on to the Marantz for now, decent little player. The phono section in the Denon is not worth building around, and honestly neither is the Denon. You didn't mention a budget, but if you're serious about a real improvement to your system, check out this integrated. Its a piece you can build around, plus it has decent power to drive better speakers..., which should be your second consideration for upgrading. Just my 2 cents...
Link - ( New Window )
I will guide you  
NINEster : 12/2/2021 3:07 pm : link
What budget are you looking to spend? Long term goals?

The best analogy I can offer for the audiophile game is that it's like the NFL draft for most people. Price isn't everything, and there's lots of 5th rounders that perform like 1st rounders and vice versa.

What city do you live in?

RE: .  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/2/2021 3:22 pm : link
In comment 15477093 winoguy said:
Quote:
I would hang on to the Marantz for now, decent little player. The phono section in the Denon is not worth building around, and honestly neither is the Denon. You didn't mention a budget, but if you're serious about a real improvement to your system, check out this integrated. Its a piece you can build around, plus it has decent power to drive better speakers..., which should be your second consideration for upgrading. Just my 2 cents... Link - ( New Window )


This actually has been recommended to me, but it doesn't have a blutooth option.

RE: I will guide you  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/2/2021 3:23 pm : link
In comment 15477153 NINEster said:
Quote:
What budget are you looking to spend? Long term goals?

The best analogy I can offer for the audiophile game is that it's like the NFL draft for most people. Price isn't everything, and there's lots of 5th rounders that perform like 1st rounders and vice versa.

What city do you live in?


Hey, I don't want to spend more that $4000-$5000 for everything. I live in Suffolk county long island.
Thanks again guys!  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/2/2021 3:23 pm : link
:thumbup:
My preferred entry level  
NINEster : 12/2/2021 3:24 pm : link
audio brand is Synthesis, from Italy.

I would recommend their Roma 79DC phono amplifier.

As for turntables, Clear Audio Concept is my recommended starter table, with an Audio Note IQ3 cartridge. Probably about $3k for both.

Stuff adds up fast, which is why you have to be honest about long term goals.

The real values are in the vintage gear. Thorens TD124, Garrard 301 are going to give you 99th percentile turntable performance under $10k guaranteed.

In general when considering upgrades, the biggest bank for the bank often is the amplifier. A really good amplifier will make all speakers sound good from audiophile to non audiophile. If you're using a receiver, then it's time to step up to the tube amp level.

The good news is you can do this piece meal. Like building a Porsche parts at a time, no need to do the whole car at once.

Another big item to consider is your room. Admittedly I have the knowledge but lack of ideal space/dedication to this right (rental apartment in NYC).

A really good room when treated right will make the absolute most of your system in terms of tonal balance, presence, quietness, etc.

Lots of good value in this. Shelves, diffusers, rugs/carpeting, all a big help in making a room sound better.

Done right, a room could be worth, 5/10/15/20k+ in gear.....for not a lot of money.


Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I will guide you  
NINEster : 12/2/2021 3:30 pm : link
In comment 15477176 Grey Pilgrim said:
Quote:
In comment 15477153 NINEster said:


Quote:


What budget are you looking to spend? Long term goals?

The best analogy I can offer for the audiophile game is that it's like the NFL draft for most people. Price isn't everything, and there's lots of 5th rounders that perform like 1st rounders and vice versa.

What city do you live in?




Hey, I don't want to spend more that $4000-$5000 for everything. I live in Suffolk county long island.


I would get the Synthesis Soprano integrated amplifier. Any of the other ones are good too but more expensive of course.

Cheap turntable, I'll have to think about it.

A decent DAC helps too.

Are you really wanting a turntable or just curious? Reason I ask is because the analog aura is real but can cost somewhat to get a baseline that outperforms digital.

I know this is out of left field completely, but a decent reel to reel tape deck outperforms just about all turntables, for about $1000 or less. Only problem is the lack of available tapes out there. It's nowhere near the amount like vinyl.

I'm not going to recommend a R2R, because it's only for the most hardcore/masochistic, but IMO you'll need a good vintage table.

Let me think about it....
Link - ( New Window )
I love NAD...  
trueblueinpw : 12/2/2021 3:31 pm : link
I have a lot of their equipment - most of it is classic stuff that I've had repaired by a shop here in NYC. I have always loved the sound and the value. Obviously a lot depends on your ears and your taste and your music and your listening environment.

Maybe check out Audio Breakthrough in Manhasset, NY? I know its a bit out of Suffolk area but they're pretty solid.

My last integrated amp I bought came from there. It came down to an NAD and a Cambridge unit and my budget was around what you're looking at with current C series you noted in OP. The thing that was great about Audio Breakthrough was that they let me take each unit home and demo. I started with side by side at the store, then took the Cambridge home for a week and then the NAD. The NAD never went back. It all comes down to the sound as you experience it with your other components and music and especially in your listening environment.

Enjoy!
Audio Shop in Manhasset - ( New Window )
I would suggest  
myquealer : 12/2/2021 4:26 pm : link
a separate phono preamp from your amp/receiver, rather than an integrated one like the store suggested. That way you can upgrade piecemeal and find the components that work best for you. Affordable phono preamps I'd consider include the Schiit Mani and the iFi Zen Phono.
Thanks again guys!  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/3/2021 8:50 am : link
:thumbsup:
I have a couple of audiophile systems and don’t do vinyl  
cosmicj : 12/3/2021 9:00 am : link
Problems with digital sound stem from mediocre DACs and bad front end digital sampling.

So I’ve invested in DACs in the $1-2k range (Wyred4Sound has a strong well priced line in this category) and Empirical Audio’s SynchroMesh, which is a high end resampler costing a bit under $1k.

I did a direct in-system controlled comparison and with this front end & found that ordinary digital sound was virtually indistinguishable from SACD, which is considered by audiophiles mostly better than vinyl.

Where am I going with this? Vinyl and turntables are a VERY expensive proposition. Good cartridges run to $3-4k easily. And vinyl the medium sucks. My advice is to invest in your front end digital. More affordable, adaptable and easier to use.
RE: My preferred entry level  
PatersonPlank : 12/3/2021 9:11 am : link
In comment 15477178 NINEster said:
Quote:
audio brand is Synthesis, from Italy.

I would recommend their Roma 79DC phono amplifier.

As for turntables, Clear Audio Concept is my recommended starter table, with an Audio Note IQ3 cartridge. Probably about $3k for both.

Stuff adds up fast, which is why you have to be honest about long term goals.

The real values are in the vintage gear. Thorens TD124, Garrard 301 are going to give you 99th percentile turntable performance under $10k guaranteed.

In general when considering upgrades, the biggest bank for the bank often is the amplifier. A really good amplifier will make all speakers sound good from audiophile to non audiophile. If you're using a receiver, then it's time to step up to the tube amp level.

The good news is you can do this piece meal. Like building a Porsche parts at a time, no need to do the whole car at once.

Another big item to consider is your room. Admittedly I have the knowledge but lack of ideal space/dedication to this right (rental apartment in NYC).

A really good room when treated right will make the absolute most of your system in terms of tonal balance, presence, quietness, etc.

Lots of good value in this. Shelves, diffusers, rugs/carpeting, all a big help in making a room sound better.

Done right, a room could be worth, 5/10/15/20k+ in gear.....for not a lot of money.
Link - ( New Window )


So you'd go with the old re-made "tube" technology (isn't this what Synthesis does)? Why? Boy I remember that from my youth, turn it on and the sound ramps up as the tubes heat up.
....  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/3/2021 9:24 am : link
Hey,

Another question: Would it make more sense to buy an all in one amp that includes a bluetooth/streaming etc, and phono pre amp or buy them separately?
I have a tube preamp and absolutely love it  
cosmicj : 12/3/2021 9:27 am : link
Think it’s my best single component. But tubes really aren’t for “always on” family use systems. Solid state for that.
.  
winoguy : 12/3/2021 9:55 am : link
That Soprano tube amp that was recommended is only 12 watts and will limit your speaker choices . Don't even think about Reel to reel, way too expensive. Also, you don't need to spend thousand$ to enter the analog world. Check out a Rega Planar 2, good entry level and would be easy to resell should you wish to upgrade in the future. You can always add an outboard streamer to that integrated I recommended. It also has a DAC which should improve your CD player. Where are you located? My son just bought a home in Merrick.
Patterson Plank:  
winoguy : 12/3/2021 10:03 am : link
Tubes are not old technology in the world of high end audio, and are quite prevalent. My system has mostly always been a tube pre amp with a solid state amp. Tubes are simply more musical. Ive tried a couple SS pre amps thru the years but always return to the tubes.
Grey Pilgrim,  
winoguy : 12/3/2021 10:17 am : link
buying separate components gives you much more flexibility and choice, but generally will come at an additional expense ( extra power cord, IC... ) All in one units will generally have some ultimate compromises, but that is reflected in the price and convenience. That being said, there are some good integrated s at decent prices that will be a big improvement over that old receiver. Another option is to buy used, can get some nice gear for good prices. Check out Audiogon. Good luck in your endeavor, keep us posted
Thanks winoguy!  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/3/2021 11:35 am : link

Will do.
RE: I have a tube preamp and absolutely love it  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/3/2021 11:38 am : link
In comment 15477846 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Think it’s my best single component. But tubes really aren’t for “always on” family use systems. Solid state for that.


Thanks.
Grey  
cosmicj : 12/3/2021 11:59 am : link
Another suggestion is look at the used listings on Audiogon. Seller reputation is a big deal there so you won’t get ripped off. I’ve bought some absolute gems there for much under MSRP.
RE: Grey  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/3/2021 12:03 pm : link
In comment 15478009 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Another suggestion is look at the used listings on Audiogon. Seller reputation is a big deal there so you won’t get ripped off. I’ve bought some absolute gems there for much under MSRP.


Awesome cosmicj! Thanks.
RE: Grey  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/3/2021 3:57 pm : link
In comment 15478009 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Another suggestion is look at the used listings on Audiogon. Seller reputation is a big deal there so you won’t get ripped off. I’ve bought some absolute gems there for much under MSRP.


How does audiogon compare with ebay? I got burned buying a cd changer on ebay.

Just wondering.
for strictly  
winoguy : 12/3/2021 9:58 pm : link
audio equipment Audiogon,no contest. Deal with sellers that have good feedback ( most do). The community polices itself real well. If there is a person or business that is shady they get called out. There are also retailers that sell on Audiogon , with plenty of feedback.
RE: for strictly  
Grey Pilgrim : 12/4/2021 6:27 am : link
In comment 15478632 winoguy said:
Quote:
audio equipment Audiogon,no contest. Deal with sellers that have good feedback ( most do). The community polices itself real well. If there is a person or business that is shady they get called out. There are also retailers that sell on Audiogon , with plenty of feedback.

Great! Thanks winoguy.
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