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Rob Sale on why Peart is not starting over Solder

Beer Man : 12/2/2021 2:54 pm
Rob Sale (OL Coach) says Solder is the better of the two right now. Says Peart is less physical, not finishing, and not playing with a chip on his shoulder.

Not a positive assessment of our RT hopeful.
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Rob Sales'  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/2/2021 5:36 pm : link
facial expressions say a lot...
Position Coach Videos - ( New Window )
sounds like  
BigBlueCane : 12/2/2021 5:41 pm : link
the Scouts and Coaches have different things they look for.
RE: Rob Sales'  
KerrysFlask : 12/2/2021 5:50 pm : link
In comment 15477344 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
facial expressions say a lot... Position Coach Videos - ( New Window )


Eeks. Looks beyond frustrated with Peart. Almost like he's given up on him.
This chump reminds me  
Silver Spoon : 12/2/2021 5:52 pm : link
or another wasted pick, Brewer.
Might be some sort of  
Spiciest Memelord : 12/2/2021 6:03 pm : link
JJ 'culture' BS. Solder should have been unceremoniously dumped 2 years ago.
RE: Maybe Sale thinks he's an amateur shrink  
JohnG in Albany : 12/2/2021 6:16 pm : link
In comment 15477329 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
and embarrassing Peart publicly will light a fire under him


Better than Sale thinking he's a professional shrink. *grin*
RE: RE: Rob Sales'  
Beer Man : 12/2/2021 6:34 pm : link
In comment 15477363 KerrysFlask said:
Quote:
In comment 15477344 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


facial expressions say a lot... Position Coach Videos - ( New Window )
+1


Eeks. Looks beyond frustrated with Peart. Almost like he's given up on him.
RE: RE: Rob Sales'  
chick310 : 12/2/2021 6:38 pm : link
In comment 15477363 KerrysFlask said:
Quote:
In comment 15477344 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


facial expressions say a lot... Position Coach Videos - ( New Window )



Eeks. Looks beyond frustrated with Peart. Almost like he's given up on him.


Sale should be careful.

The last guy who got caught making unflattering remarks towards our Offensive Linemen just got the boot.
RE: Rob Sales'  
aimrocky : 12/2/2021 6:48 pm : link
In comment 15477344 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
facial expressions say a lot... Position Coach Videos - ( New Window )


Wow, yeah, those expressions tell the story…
RE: RE: RE: Rob Sales'  
Bill in UT : 12/2/2021 7:02 pm : link
In comment 15477422 chick310 said:
Quote:


The last guy who got caught making unflattering remarks towards our Offensive Linemen just got the boot.


Yeah, but it looks like the guy who said good things about them, DG, is getting the boot also.
This  
AcidTest : 12/2/2021 7:06 pm : link
has been a very healthy debate, but whatever the answer, it just shows how messed up this franchise has been and continues to be.
Trusting the position coaches...  
Brown_Hornet : 12/2/2021 7:06 pm : link
... Is just about as in-depth as we can get as fans.

In the off season it appeared as though we had a viable option at RT.
Now we come to understand that's not the case.
It could be worse and the Giants had a great deal of Money wrapped up in Peart.

RE: RE: yes, yes and yes, but, after all, maybe not  
Grizz99 : 12/2/2021 7:13 pm : link
In comment 15477340 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15477244 Grizz99 said:


Quote:


I like and believe in Bobby Skinner. And he had the kid playing well at the more difficult OLT position.
He was,after all, a reach, a project from a small school and not a football powerhouse,
So many things can impact, from off field issues and so on.
Raw talent counts...athleticism and size counts..maybe as Mark twain once said, "the reports of my death are premature".


He was a reach?

Weird, since you compared him to Jonathan Ogden.

Weird is the compulsion that drives you from thread to thread and short put down to content-less put down.
In this instance knowingly lying. It was months ago that I compared the way Ogden made large men look smalls.. but knowing how important your pathetic attempts to denigrate are...I give you permission..
RE: He may be collecting  
averagejoe : 12/2/2021 7:13 pm : link
In comment 15477157 section125 said:
Quote:
his first three years of checks and then retiring. i.e., not interested in being a career NFLer. One thing about Parcells, he knew what buttons to push to get people to improve. Seems to me if the coaches are speaking publicly about this, Peart knows and just doesn't care.

Shame. He has the size and athleticism to get it done.


I think this is what is going on as well. Since they get the money upfront now many are not motivated to improve their game. Very hard to judge who really loves the game. Playing behind Solder confirms bust status .
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/2/2021 7:14 pm : link
I think it WAY too soon to give up on Peart, but the fact he can't beat out Solder...not going to lie, that's alarming considering how bad Solder looks out there EVERY week.
I don’t buy it  
Bizfoodie : 12/2/2021 8:49 pm : link
I mean this seriously but when anybody looks at solder play do you think “oh this guy is physical and plays with a chip on his shoulder”? I literally think the organization feels bad for Solder with all he’s been through and probably is a good dude and teammate. He’s bad like Erek Flowers at tackle bad but worse lol
is there something else going on?  
Grizz99 : 12/2/2021 8:50 pm : link
This is a kid who - before his injury last year - was getting high grades from PFF. This year he looked adequate at OLT, Andrews comes back and he seems a natural for ORT and Solder wins the job and seems eminantly beatable...esp. when you consider you could/should be grooming Pert.
In spite of the accumulated wisdom of the bbi fan (which would rattle around inside matchbox, we don't know all the facts.
I'm going to hope that there's an injury or personal problem and that with some luck and lots of hard work he'll still fulfill his potential.
And I'm going to hold to that because the alternative is grim.
RE: Shades of Will Beatty?  
GeofromNJ : 12/2/2021 9:51 pm : link
In comment 15477163 OlyWABigBlue said:
Quote:
with less accomplished....

Quite possibly. Beatty's problem was simple. He really didn't want to play football. He was talented enough. He just wasn't interested. He took the money, did the minimum, and then walked away. Peart may or may not have the same mindset as Beatty, but as you say, neither does he seem as talented.
...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/2/2021 9:52 pm : link
He hasn't played nearly enough to say he was getting "high grades". 150 snaps in 2020 is nothing. It's a little over two games.

RE: ...  
Brown_Hornet : 12/2/2021 10:12 pm : link
In comment 15477644 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
He hasn't played nearly enough to say he was getting "high grades". 150 snaps in 2020 is nothing. It's a little over two games.
To be fair it doesn't matter whether it was 5 plats 50 plays or 150 plays... Last year he was indeed getting high marks and receiving praise from multiple sources.

Maybe he was green but busted his ass as a rookie... Maybe after an off season he realized he was making a tremendous amount of money And didn't really have to work that hard to do so...
... I really don't know.

But We don't need to rip each other for having once believed that this guy had a shot because we were made to believe that indeed he did... By those who are supposed to be in the know.

Rob Sale is basically saying  
MartyNJ1969 : 12/2/2021 10:44 pm : link
Peart looks like Tarzan, Plays like Jane.
Just remembered - if you think about  
section125 : 12/3/2021 6:50 am : link
what Bobby Skinner said about Peart, it was he does not punch enough and when he does it is not forceful enough. Instead of forcefully extending into the opponent's chest, he reaches out and often not inside. Lets the opponent get to his pads.

Perhaps that is what Sale means.
Sale sounds like  
Bubba : 12/3/2021 6:55 am : link
an old school type which is fine with me. Parcells got the most out of guys like Carl Nelson and Doug Riesenberg by riding them.
Unfortunately not all respond the way you want. Peart may be one of those that don't.

It appears from Sale's comments on Peart's physicality  
Rick in Dallas : 12/3/2021 7:03 am : link
It is up to the young man to decide whether he wants to be NFL OT or not. Sale has coached him up but remains frustrated by Peart's practice habits.
It doesn't take a lot to replace Solder who's game skills have totally deteriorated into a subpar OT.
RE: Move him to Guard  
Beer Man : 12/3/2021 7:16 am : link
In comment 15477260 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
Like Flowers :-)
With all his mechanical and attitude flaws, Flowers did play with a mean streak. Moving Flowers to OG helped to alleviate some of his mechanical flaws, but moving Peart to OG is not going change or hide his lack of aggressiveness.
Sale is full of shit  
giantBCP : 12/3/2021 7:27 am : link
Just like the rest of them. When highly paid players like Barkley and Solder are playing at their current performance level, it’s not because they’re better than their backups.
RE: You people are unreal  
islander1 : 12/3/2021 7:34 am : link
In comment 15477226 UberAlias said:
Quote:
They want Peart to win the spot. He was the starter out there on day 1. Clearly he sucks. Is this honestly hard to believe given DGs success with Oline since coming here? Move on. He’s not the answer.


Yep, another Gettleman bust.
RE: Sale is full of shit  
section125 : 12/3/2021 7:40 am : link
In comment 15477762 giantBCP said:
Quote:
Just like the rest of them. When highly paid players like Barkley and Solder are playing at their current performance level, it’s not because they’re better than their backups.


He's not full of shit. The Giants dearly want Peart to be the starting RT. We want him to be the starting RT. Does Peart want to be the starting RT? This may be a motivational tool to make Peart improve. This was a highly successful college line coach. Why all of a sudden is Flowers doing well in DC? (Motivation, as in play guard or stay home unemployed?)

As far as Barkley - there is no doubt Booker runs a heck of a lot harder and Barkley dances way to much(for us), but if you watched Skinner's analysis of last week, he showed that two or three times Barkley did not go hard enough at the line - the rest 10 out of 13 times there was little there except for the 32 yard run. So yes he could have had 2 or 3 yards on a couple runs that got zero or one. But I think if you watch the 2nd half you see that Barkley ran a little harder. Throw in the knee and ankle. I still think he can hit the holes harder, but that has never been his style of play and no he is not producing worthy of his draft slot.
RE: is there something else going on?  
chick310 : 12/3/2021 8:22 am : link
In comment 15477572 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
This is a kid who - before his injury last year - was getting high grades from PFF. This year he looked adequate at OLT, Andrews comes back and he seems a natural for ORT and Solder wins the job and seems eminantly beatable...esp. when you consider you could/should be grooming Pert.
In spite of the accumulated wisdom of the bbi fan (which would rattle around inside matchbox, we don't know all the facts.
I'm going to hope that there's an injury or personal problem and that with some luck and lots of hard work he'll still fulfill his potential.
And I'm going to hold to that because the alternative is grim.


Maybe there is something going on with you. Why not try and read some of that wisdom on BBI that you just want to mock.

Sy'56 graded Matt Peart with a 75 Rating which is "Future Backup/Possible Starter" and he that has to further develop his lower body mechanics." And now in year 2, Peart is sitting in that very area. If he improves than he is a possible starting tackle, and if he doesn't it looks like he is a future backup. Keep in mind that Sy's rating also imply that it will take around 3 years if he even becomes a starter.

This may be grim to you but only because you overrated him and higher expectations than likely reality. And that seems to be fairly prevalent in a lot of your postings.
It seems like the draft heads knew about Peart ahead of time  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/3/2021 8:56 am : link
Sale was as honest and up front as you can be with the media  
JonC : 12/3/2021 9:16 am : link
This is on Peart, he's not playing physical or with the type of snarl or violence required in the NFL. Plain and simple.

Solder has his own issues on display, but the coaches are telling us he's demonstrating he's the better option, which speaks poorly of Peart in another way.

Since this was also spotted by draftniks, it's not invented, Giants just chose to try and develop him past it, which isn't working so far.
Good find Ten Ton Hammer  
chick310 : 12/3/2021 9:20 am : link
those scouting thoughts on Peart are huge.
again...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/3/2021 9:20 am : link
not to harp on it, but watch the video. Sales' facial expressions are priceless.

AND...and this is a big AND... the Giants edited the video and took this out:

Dan Duggan

@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Asked what Peart needs to show, Sale said, “More physical.” He left it at that. Later he added it’s a violent game. “Go out there and put your hands around somebody’s neck and freaking choke ‘em. Plain and simple.”
an  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/3/2021 9:25 am : link
OL failing because he isn't physical enough is actually quite common, not just for 2021, but even decades ago.

John Madden once made a tape on how to watch football (it was basically a video version of football for dummies). However, the tape was filled with gems that I don't think even diehard football watches know (stuff like watching the FB and guards will tell you what kind of play is being run, etc.).

One of the things Madden harped on was the psychological mind games that coaches have to play with OLs. He said that for most of their lives, this naturally huge boys/men were told to not to pick on smaller people. He said they were conditioned to not be aggressive. Then when they started playing football, they were told to do the opposite. He said many can't do it.
This is the biggest public shaming I have seen a coach do  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/3/2021 9:30 am : link
Wow. Peart's either going to show heart or select out. Man, HOw do you show your face in the locker room?
That assessment  
SomeFan : 12/3/2021 9:32 am : link
sounds terrible.
RE: Maybe Sale thinks he's an amateur shrink  
SomeFan : 12/3/2021 9:35 am : link
In comment 15477329 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
and embarrassing Peart publicly will light a fire under him
Assuming this is true, it still is bad. If he is not bringing it while trying to make it in the NFL, then fuck it. These are the guys that will fuck a team up in crunch time. You need talent but you need to like to play the game too.
the guy in for peart  
hitdog42 : 12/3/2021 9:37 am : link
is not physical
is not technical
is not going to be in the NFL--- but lets continue with super tough love vs. accepting sh$t play ---

RE: Rob Sales'  
chick310 : 12/3/2021 9:41 am : link
In comment 15477344 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
facial expressions say a lot... Position Coach Videos - ( New Window )


Eric - this video from Sale talking about Matt Peart is priceless. He is basically calling him a wimp in no uncertain terms as an NFL player.
RE: RE: Rob Sales'  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/3/2021 9:45 am : link
In comment 15477857 chick310 said:
Quote:
In comment 15477344 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


facial expressions say a lot... Position Coach Videos - ( New Window )



Eric - this video from Sale talking about Matt Peart is priceless. He is basically calling him a wimp in no uncertain terms as an NFL player.


Also note how he has to take a moment, collect his thoughts, and then respond. Makes you wonder what he really wanted to say!
RE: an  
crick n NC : 12/3/2021 9:46 am : link
In comment 15477844 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
OL failing because he isn't physical enough is actually quite common, not just for 2021, but even decades ago.

John Madden once made a tape on how to watch football (it was basically a video version of football for dummies). However, the tape was filled with gems that I don't think even diehard football watches know (stuff like watching the FB and guards will tell you what kind of play is being run, etc.).

One of the things Madden harped on was the psychological mind games that coaches have to play with OLs. He said that for most of their lives, this naturally huge boys/men were told to not to pick on smaller people. He said they were conditioned to not be aggressive. Then when they started playing football, they were told to do the opposite. He said many can't do it.


Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
RE: RE: RE: Rob Sales'  
chick310 : 12/3/2021 9:48 am : link
In comment 15477862 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15477857 chick310 said:


Quote:


In comment 15477344 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


facial expressions say a lot... Position Coach Videos - ( New Window )



Eric - this video from Sale talking about Matt Peart is priceless. He is basically calling him a wimp in no uncertain terms as an NFL player.



Also note how he has to take a moment, collect his thoughts, and then respond. Makes you wonder what he really wanted to say!


Based on his tone and expressions, I think he wanted to say "Peart needs to stop being such a pussy".
crick n NC  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/3/2021 9:53 am : link
One of thing Madden told his young offensive linemen to do was just pound away at punching bags. He wanted them to get used to being angry and physical at something.
RE: an  
Brown_Hornet : 12/3/2021 10:03 am : link
In comment 15477844 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
He said that for most of their lives, this naturally huge boys/men were told to not to pick on smaller people. He said they were conditioned to not be aggressive. Then when they started playing football, they were told to do the opposite. He said many can't do it.
This is spot-on.
Nicest kids on the team.
We literally had a "Blind Side" moment with our RT last year. Our QB was flagged for throwing a punch, but, the refs came over to our HC and told him that while they had to throw the flag, that they saw...as did the RT, the defender grab the QBs crotch in the pile.(apparently squeezed pretty hard)

RT, that had been struggling, put that kid on rollerskates for the rest of the game...turns out, he's a protector.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Rob Sales'  
csb : 12/3/2021 10:18 am : link
In comment 15477867 chick310 said:
Quote:
In comment 15477862 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 15477857 chick310 said:


Quote:


In comment 15477344 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


facial expressions say a lot... Position Coach Videos - ( New Window )



Eric - this video from Sale talking about Matt Peart is priceless. He is basically calling him a wimp in no uncertain terms as an NFL player.



Also note how he has to take a moment, collect his thoughts, and then respond. Makes you wonder what he really wanted to say!



Based on his tone and expressions, I think he wanted to say "Peart needs to stop being such a pussy".


^^^^^This^^^^^
Really interesting thread thank you  
arniefez : 12/3/2021 10:44 am : link
Matt Peart is a better RT than Nate Solder. Would anyone who watches the Giants every week argue that? I think the reason that he's not playing is the part of the NFL that's hidden from fans. I think is a conformist attitude that's required at all times by some coaches. I wonder if Joe Judge would have played Kareem McKenzie. From what I've read he had a similiar demeanor as Peart. I'm not comparing them as players but remember the Jets let McKenzie leave as a FA.

I know this is all unfounded speculation on my part but I think the dots connect and what else do we have to talk about at 4-7 and 19-40 for this GM.

Occasionally we get a few quotes from an ex player who will describe the real behind the scenes culture of the NFL or a video of a DE dunking a CB into an ice bath but there is an NFL La Cosa Nostra Omertà that is rarely broken. I wish Solder would pull a hamstring or sprain a toe so the Giants would have to play Peart. Some guys are much better in games than practice. Maybe he's one of them. I would like to find out.

Just seems like a massive fail by DG  
RCPhoenix : 12/3/2021 10:45 am : link
If someone doesn't love playing offensive line they don't belong in the NFL.

No competent GM would think they will take an OL who is soft and turn them into someone who is tough. Personalities don't change. If anything, Michael Oher is an example not of a person who 'had his QBs back', but more of an example of talent not leading to results b/c he didn't have the necessary motivation to succeed as a NFL lineman.
it is a joke  
hitdog42 : 12/3/2021 10:51 am : link
and a failure of coaching- to choose to enforce certain standards for some players and not others... not mean enough... ok when the guy plays hes better then the aged vet who sucks--- its pathetic-
we are not talking about a solid vet who gets the job done.
soldier on the field makes the giants worse... period end of discussion--
i dont care about peart, guy means zero to me, but he should be playing- not a washed overpaid terrible signing vet who stinks
RE: Really interesting thread thank you  
Angel Eyes : 12/3/2021 10:52 am : link
In comment 15477919 arniefez said:
Quote:
Matt Peart is a better RT than Nate Solder. Would anyone who watches the Giants every week argue that? I think the reason that he's not playing is the part of the NFL that's hidden from fans. I think is a conformist attitude that's required at all times by some coaches. I wonder if Joe Judge would have played Kareem McKenzie. From what I've read he had a similiar demeanor as Peart. I'm not comparing them as players but remember the Jets let McKenzie leave as a FA.

I know this is all unfounded speculation on my part but I think the dots connect and what else do we have to talk about at 4-7 and 19-40 for this GM.

Occasionally we get a few quotes from an ex player who will describe the real behind the scenes culture of the NFL or a video of a DE dunking a CB into an ice bath but there is an NFL La Cosa Nostra Omertà that is rarely broken. I wish Solder would pull a hamstring or sprain a toe so the Giants would have to play Peart. Some guys are much better in games than practice. Maybe he's one of them. I would like to find out.

Well, we have seen Peart play; he was the left tackle while Andrew Thomas was on injured reserve. Didn't completely shit the bed while playing or at least did a less worse job than Solder.
I understand the coaches see different things we do not  
Matt M. : 12/3/2021 11:23 am : link
And everything being said about Peart may be correct. However, in games, we have seen a player better than Solder, or at least less shitty. When you combine that with his age, to me, it would make much more sense to take my chances with Peart than know Solder will shit the bed.

This serves 2 potential purposes. One, it allows the staff and front office to better evaluate Peart in game situations. Two, it allows Peart the opportunity to learn and grow. Then, it is up to him to do just that and either cement a job for next year, or play his way out. Either way, he makes more sense than Solder.
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