The Giants should be sitting out the first wave of free agency and plugging holes with the guys who sign a couple of weeks after free agency opens. But make no mistake, they have a ton of holes everywhere.
Comparative speaking.....I disagree about holes everywhere
The secondary looks pretty good in the near future....outside of a 3 down, monster edge....the defense. A developmental NT. I assuming Blake comes back strong and someone on roster for other ILBer. I like Azeez...so 2 positions at defense.
Special Teams
Change punters....so 1 position
Offense
Could be a long list....but let's assume Gates come back healthy and Wilson or whoever take one of guards. So a RT and another Guard....add in a 2 way TE....the WRs and Booker/Barkley are fine. I see Jones like Kirk Cousins....a NFL QB which one can win with if things around him are good but not special....so 3 positions
I would say 5 spots....would make them serious contenders.
They are middle of the road right now.....I do not see the dumpster fire many here sees....coaches must learn from their mistakes....or thingss will go back to full rebuild again.
Would not agree with the assertion that Barkley/Booker and Jones do not need an upgrade to make this team a legitimate contender. I’m also not sure ther is any answer in the middle of our Oline. Sure it would be great if Gates could lock down one spot, but can you assume he does? You can legitimately argue there are four open starting spots on the Giants Oline. The WRs? Good when they are healthy, but our top 3 WRs are all injury prone and you almost have to assume each will miss several games next year.
There is less work needed on the defense, but outside of LW the Dline is average at best. Lawrence may fill another hole if he is moved to NT. As an end he could certainly be upgraded. Outside Martinez and maybe Ojulari (given potential) the LB are below average. Martinez is coming off a significant injury. The secondary is probably the strongest position on the field, but you can never have enough corners, and nobody has locked up the slot corner.
Special teams are horrid outside of Gano. Not sure why that seems all set to anyone.
This team can be competitive next year if everything breaks right for them, everyone stays healthy, and they fix 7-10 legitimate holes in the roster. That is a lot to ask in one offseason.
2020 and 21 have actually been pretty good. They have to get off the cycle of spending big to overcome past poor drafts. The losing has gone on for so long the franchise and fans get impatient. The franchise tries the quick fix. It has not worked.
If they hit on the '22 and '23 drafts they will be close but I think they are going to address QB. Have a stronger foundation on a rookie QB contract starting in '23.
Hit the second/third wave as MikeOH suggested. They can sign some bigger FA's in '23 and '24 when hopefully your a couple players away taking advantage of the rookie contract.
Mara's big decision is going to be handling Judge. He may have to really commit to him because big time success may be a few years away still.
Easily 7-10 holes, and that's before future injuries factor in
Giants have a number of "starters" in place that will need to be upgraded before they start to look like a playoff level football team. And, it could be their current personnel people aren't up to the task, it just is what it is.
What do we do about the Oline. Are we really running it back with Hernandez? No. So we have 4 positions to bring in competition. We are doing this all through the draft?
RE: Comparative speaking.....I disagree about holes everywhere
Could be a long list....but let's assume Gates come back healthy and Wilson or whoever take one of guards. So a RT and another Guard....add in a 2 way TE....the WRs and Booker/Barkley are fine. I see Jones like Kirk Cousins....a NFL QB which one can win with if things around him are good but not special....so 3 positions
With all due respect, this thought process may need some refinement.
First off, I hope the Giants don't assume Gates comes back healthy and puts an experienced Center on the roster at some point. And the sooner the better.
Not sure who Wilson is but hoping between Lemeiux/Bredeson/Skura there is at least one guy in there that can be a starting Guard, relegating the other two to be decent reserves. Therefore the Giants could use a quality starting Guard.
And it appears that Matt Peart's development is going to need more time if he ever becomes a starter. So that means the Giants need a new Right Tackle and possibly even a new swing tackle as Peart hasn't made the coaches sing his praises much lately.
The Giants need two Tight Ends as Engram's deal is over and Rudolph looks like he is almost done as an NFL player.
They will absolutely need to address Running back as well as Booker is a decent #2 back but Barkley won't be worth keeping based on his decline and dollars he will want. Probably need to add a middle round rookie that can rise within the depth chart in 2022 and hopefully be the starter in 2023.
So based on my quick thoughts above, I count 6-7 positions that need to be addressed on the Offense NOT INCLUDING what they may do at Quarterback.
Let me know if I am not seeing these areas clearly.
RE: Comparative speaking.....I disagree about holes everywhere
The secondary looks pretty good in the near future....outside of a 3 down, monster edge....the defense. A developmental NT. I assuming Blake comes back strong and someone on roster for other ILBer. I like Azeez...so 2 positions at defense.
Special Teams
Change punters....so 1 position
Offense
Could be a long list....but let's assume Gates come back healthy and Wilson or whoever take one of guards. So a RT and another Guard....add in a 2 way TE....the WRs and Booker/Barkley are fine. I see Jones like Kirk Cousins....a NFL QB which one can win with if things around him are good but not special....so 3 positions
I would say 5 spots....would make them serious contenders.
They are middle of the road right now.....I do not see the dumpster fire many here sees....coaches must learn from their mistakes....or thingss will go back to full rebuild again.
Defense:
A Johnson needs to be resigned.
Danny Shelton needs to be replaced
Need #1 edge
Martinez has 1yr left, so you need to find replacement or extend.
Crowders position needs to be improved
Bradberry has 1 yr left so you need to replacement or extend
Could use a 3rd Outside CB (Robinson and Darney in the slot)
Which lines up well to draft Bradberry replacement and have them as #3 for a year or 2yr if FT bradberry.
Safety = Peppers? There is room for another player in this room weather it is Peppers or someone else.
Offense:
Can't count on Gates or Wilson and Hernandez is gone...Shane is ok, but should be upgraded as well. I see the need for 4 starters on oline, depth should be OK with Bredeson, Peart, and Shane, Skura or another low priced VET.
WR - There is room at the bottom for improvement.
TE - Engram gone, Rudolph is probably here to stay back needs to be replaced, and the rest are PS level. We could use 3 new guys here, but are also ok.
RB - Need to draft someone.
QB - ????
Special teams - Need a Punter and a Kick Returner that also bring value to a position. I want my KR to be someone that would make the roster even if they weren't he KR/PR.
I wrote the above positional views with the crazy idea the Offense
start scoring in the mid-20 points per game at some point this decade.
If you like 17-18 points a game, then keep relying on guys like Will Hernandez, Rudolph, Skura, Peart and Barkley/Booker to play. They will do just fine.
I think there are very few players present who will still be with the team in 2023. Of the higher priced players I think Williams may stick. The majority of players making bigger money now will be replaced with hopefully younger talent that is talented and not just a body. I think Williams may stick though.
I just realized Wilson is Isaiah Wilson, the cast off guy
from the Titans that is an immense guy and an immense project.
Let's just say that if Wilson contributes anything to the 2022 roster then the Giants found a winning lottery ticket on the ground. And that is how he should be viewed until we actually see him in an NFL game.
RE: Comparative speaking.....I disagree about holes everywhere
Could be a long list....but let's assume Gates come back healthy and Wilson or whoever take one of guards. So a RT and another Guard....add in a 2 way TE....the WRs and Booker/Barkley are fine. I see Jones like Kirk Cousins....a NFL QB which one can win with if things around him are good but not special....so 3 positions
Not sure how you can even remotely compare Jones to Cousins.
Granted Cousins wasn't a full-time starter until his 4th year and Jones was a starter in year 1, but when you look at the numbers there's no comparison.
In his first 6 years as a starter (not counting 2021) Cousins has averaged 4,224 yds., 29 TDs and 11 INTs and his completion percentage has fallen below 67% in only one year (64.3% - 2017).
In Jones's first two years as a starter (not counting 2021) he has as averaged 2,985 yds., 17.5 TDs and 11 INTs and his completion percentage was 61.9% and 62.5%.
And Cousins has only missed 1 game in 7 years.
At this point Jones is not in Cousins' class and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Jones never will be.
QB?- unclear
OL- at least 2, maybe 3
TE- at least 1
WR- health
RB- need 1
LBs (edge + middle) - need 2-3
secondary i am fine with- can find another and have too much $ there
DT- 1
The Giants have too many holes and questions (Jones being the biggest one) to fix in one off-season. The draft is a great place to start, but they have to hit on their picks. There can't be questions surrounding their first-round picks year after year. And they have to develop an identity. Right now, they have none. Right now, they do nothing well and the talent level is lacking in all facets. Right now, they need to clean house and get some talent on the field, good coaches on the sideline, and competent front office people. It starts, again, this off-season and hopefully will trend upwards.
QB?- unclear
OL- at least 2, maybe 3
TE- at least 1
WR- health
RB- need 1
LBs (edge + middle) - need 2-3
secondary i am fine with- can find another and have too much $ there
DT- 1
I would say at least 2 TE's as Rudolph has to go and EE is a free agent.
The Giants need Barkley to look like an ascending player these last 6 games and trade him this off-season
..
They probably are stuck with Jones BUT if they can get a VET a lot of things improve just with that. I don't want to give up draft capital so stuck with Jones.
Dexter Lawrence should be available for trade if we truly want 2022 to be a building year and cap correction year.
RE: Easily 7-10 holes, and that's before future injuries factor in
Giants have a number of "starters" in place that will need to be upgraded before they start to look like a playoff level football team. And, it could be their current personnel people aren't up to the task, it just is what it is.
Yup. A problem they have too is a couple of their defensive stalwarts (Williams, Martinez, Bradberry, Ryan) are likely to phase out sooner than later in next two yrs due to age, injury, or cap charge. People keep clamoring for cluster OL drafting, but that defense needs young playmaking talent fast in order to avoid big problems. Hence, why new outsider GM is ideal and decision on Jones is needed somewhat quicker than people think.
Writing off Barkley before most common timeframe for complete recovery from ACL and before installing an OC with enough competence to scheme to a skill-set rathers than "I always do it this way - an RB is an RB."
You tried to improve o-line and offensive playmakers surrounding Jones. On a game-to-game basis you failed miserably, for whatever reason. But writing off Jones because you tried?
If no cost for moving on, fine, but in what universe is there no cost. Impossible cost in alternate use of draft choices and salary cap hit.
multiple lower body injuries in a skill position player is usually a bad thing. For a world class athlete, its like a delicate refined highly coordinated system, where if one thing gets a little kinky, another part of the system gets thrown off to adjust and so forth.
Writing off Barkley before most common timeframe for complete recovery from ACL and before installing an OC with enough competence to scheme to a skill-set rathers than "I always do it this way - an RB is an RB."
You tried to improve o-line and offensive playmakers surrounding Jones. On a game-to-game basis you failed miserably, for whatever reason. But writing off Jones because you tried?
If no cost for moving on, fine, but in what universe is there no cost. Impossible cost in alternate use of draft choices and salary cap hit.
This is year 4 for Barkley at a position with a short shelf life. When is the light going to turn on, year 6? Year 8? Barkley is what he is at this point which is not very good.
in two places - DBs and WRs. Everywhere else is below average or worse.
QB - Bad
RB - who cares
WR - league average
OL - bad and we probably need to fill 4 starting spots
TE - we don't have any
DL (run stopping) - OK
DL (pass rushing) - maybe the worst in the league
LB - very bad
DB - league average (maybe slightly above)
We have like $200 M in salary commitments for $80 M worth of talent.
Catches everything thrown to him. Not sure what your looking for in a TE. Smith and Rudolph are mostly putting in a blocking role due to the bad o-line. Rudolph’s down fall is his speed. But only a handful of TEs in the leagues contributions have anything to do with speed. Etta, Gronkowski, Andrews aren’t out running people. Giants needs are someone who can teach how to pickup a stunt on offense. Defense need speed at LB and an edge rusher.
The Giants have a top heavy resource allocation next year, they have 29 UFAs and 3 big time health question marks (Gates, Lemieux, Martinez) as presumptive starters.
They’ll also have a bigger rookie pool to contend with financially, especially if they have two top 5 picks.
Some likely outcomes include cutting Shepard, Dixon, Rudolph, and maybe Ryan. And hoping Martinez and Bradberry play ball on extensions which is no guarantee.
There’s a very good chance this Giants team looks pretty different if there is a new GM.
if he doesn't have anyone to block to his left, immediately lunges and knocks down on his ass the 300 lb man to his right and not stand there staring off into space.
The Giants have a top heavy resource allocation next year, they have 29 UFAs and 3 big time health question marks (Gates, Lemieux, Martinez) as presumptive starters.
They’ll also have a bigger rookie pool to contend with financially, especially if they have two top 5 picks.
Some likely outcomes include cutting Shepard, Dixon, Rudolph, and maybe Ryan. And hoping Martinez and Bradberry play ball on extensions which is no guarantee.
There’s a very good chance this Giants team looks pretty different if there is a new GM.
With no money, a new GM is not going to make this team look much different. Even DG can find 3-4 starters in the draft or UDFAs. The question is (same as always even with Coughlin) ‘can this staff recognize and develop the talent they are given?’
Ryan isn’t and shouldn’t be going anywhere. Versatile and talented although McKinney is going to control the back end of the defense.. More likely Peppers is leaving. He is not a good deep safety but could be valuable as an in-the-box safety and LB. Crazy but Peppers maybe could have been a more productive RB this year than Barkley/Booker have been.
With no money, a new GM is not going to make this team look much different.
With 29 UFAs, and three day one starters question marks, the Giants will look much different. Especially because they are in a resource bind.
1) The Giants need to create money to operate. Last year the big well was cutting Zeitler and redoing Solder. They’ll do similar this year. The biggest cut targets are Shepard, Rudolph, Dixon, and I believe Ryan (more below).
They’ll also restructure and extend where they can. A really intriguing story is whether Bradberry is willing to extend.
Players who have logged 10% + snaps who are UFAs/potential cuts:
Keep looking. That’s all we can do lmao
The Giants should be sitting out the first wave of free agency and plugging holes with the guys who sign a couple of weeks after free agency opens. But make no mistake, they have a ton of holes everywhere.
The secondary looks pretty good in the near future....outside of a 3 down, monster edge....the defense. A developmental NT. I assuming Blake comes back strong and someone on roster for other ILBer. I like Azeez...so 2 positions at defense.
Special Teams
Change punters....so 1 position
Offense
Could be a long list....but let's assume Gates come back healthy and Wilson or whoever take one of guards. So a RT and another Guard....add in a 2 way TE....the WRs and Booker/Barkley are fine. I see Jones like Kirk Cousins....a NFL QB which one can win with if things around him are good but not special....so 3 positions
I would say 5 spots....would make them serious contenders.
They are middle of the road right now.....I do not see the dumpster fire many here sees....coaches must learn from their mistakes....or thingss will go back to full rebuild again.
There is less work needed on the defense, but outside of LW the Dline is average at best. Lawrence may fill another hole if he is moved to NT. As an end he could certainly be upgraded. Outside Martinez and maybe Ojulari (given potential) the LB are below average. Martinez is coming off a significant injury. The secondary is probably the strongest position on the field, but you can never have enough corners, and nobody has locked up the slot corner.
Special teams are horrid outside of Gano. Not sure why that seems all set to anyone.
This team can be competitive next year if everything breaks right for them, everyone stays healthy, and they fix 7-10 legitimate holes in the roster. That is a lot to ask in one offseason.
If they hit on the '22 and '23 drafts they will be close but I think they are going to address QB. Have a stronger foundation on a rookie QB contract starting in '23.
Hit the second/third wave as MikeOH suggested. They can sign some bigger FA's in '23 and '24 when hopefully your a couple players away taking advantage of the rookie contract.
Mara's big decision is going to be handling Judge. He may have to really commit to him because big time success may be a few years away still.
Offense
Could be a long list....but let's assume Gates come back healthy and Wilson or whoever take one of guards. So a RT and another Guard....add in a 2 way TE....the WRs and Booker/Barkley are fine. I see Jones like Kirk Cousins....a NFL QB which one can win with if things around him are good but not special....so 3 positions
With all due respect, this thought process may need some refinement.
First off, I hope the Giants don't assume Gates comes back healthy and puts an experienced Center on the roster at some point. And the sooner the better.
Not sure who Wilson is but hoping between Lemeiux/Bredeson/Skura there is at least one guy in there that can be a starting Guard, relegating the other two to be decent reserves. Therefore the Giants could use a quality starting Guard.
And it appears that Matt Peart's development is going to need more time if he ever becomes a starter. So that means the Giants need a new Right Tackle and possibly even a new swing tackle as Peart hasn't made the coaches sing his praises much lately.
The Giants need two Tight Ends as Engram's deal is over and Rudolph looks like he is almost done as an NFL player.
They will absolutely need to address Running back as well as Booker is a decent #2 back but Barkley won't be worth keeping based on his decline and dollars he will want. Probably need to add a middle round rookie that can rise within the depth chart in 2022 and hopefully be the starter in 2023.
So based on my quick thoughts above, I count 6-7 positions that need to be addressed on the Offense NOT INCLUDING what they may do at Quarterback.
Let me know if I am not seeing these areas clearly.
The secondary looks pretty good in the near future....outside of a 3 down, monster edge....the defense. A developmental NT. I assuming Blake comes back strong and someone on roster for other ILBer. I like Azeez...so 2 positions at defense.
Special Teams
Change punters....so 1 position
Offense
Could be a long list....but let's assume Gates come back healthy and Wilson or whoever take one of guards. So a RT and another Guard....add in a 2 way TE....the WRs and Booker/Barkley are fine. I see Jones like Kirk Cousins....a NFL QB which one can win with if things around him are good but not special....so 3 positions
I would say 5 spots....would make them serious contenders.
They are middle of the road right now.....I do not see the dumpster fire many here sees....coaches must learn from their mistakes....or thingss will go back to full rebuild again.
Defense:
A Johnson needs to be resigned.
Danny Shelton needs to be replaced
Need #1 edge
Martinez has 1yr left, so you need to find replacement or extend.
Crowders position needs to be improved
Bradberry has 1 yr left so you need to replacement or extend
Could use a 3rd Outside CB (Robinson and Darney in the slot)
Which lines up well to draft Bradberry replacement and have them as #3 for a year or 2yr if FT bradberry.
Safety = Peppers? There is room for another player in this room weather it is Peppers or someone else.
Offense:
Can't count on Gates or Wilson and Hernandez is gone...Shane is ok, but should be upgraded as well. I see the need for 4 starters on oline, depth should be OK with Bredeson, Peart, and Shane, Skura or another low priced VET.
WR - There is room at the bottom for improvement.
TE - Engram gone, Rudolph is probably here to stay back needs to be replaced, and the rest are PS level. We could use 3 new guys here, but are also ok.
RB - Need to draft someone.
QB - ????
Special teams - Need a Punter and a Kick Returner that also bring value to a position. I want my KR to be someone that would make the roster even if they weren't he KR/PR.
If you like 17-18 points a game, then keep relying on guys like Will Hernandez, Rudolph, Skura, Peart and Barkley/Booker to play. They will do just fine.
Let's just say that if Wilson contributes anything to the 2022 roster then the Giants found a winning lottery ticket on the ground. And that is how he should be viewed until we actually see him in an NFL game.
Could be a long list....but let's assume Gates come back healthy and Wilson or whoever take one of guards. So a RT and another Guard....add in a 2 way TE....the WRs and Booker/Barkley are fine. I see Jones like Kirk Cousins....a NFL QB which one can win with if things around him are good but not special....so 3 positions
Not sure how you can even remotely compare Jones to Cousins.
Granted Cousins wasn't a full-time starter until his 4th year and Jones was a starter in year 1, but when you look at the numbers there's no comparison.
In his first 6 years as a starter (not counting 2021) Cousins has averaged 4,224 yds., 29 TDs and 11 INTs and his completion percentage has fallen below 67% in only one year (64.3% - 2017).
In Jones's first two years as a starter (not counting 2021) he has as averaged 2,985 yds., 17.5 TDs and 11 INTs and his completion percentage was 61.9% and 62.5%.
And Cousins has only missed 1 game in 7 years.
At this point Jones is not in Cousins' class and I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Jones never will be.
OL- at least 2, maybe 3
TE- at least 1
WR- health
RB- need 1
LBs (edge + middle) - need 2-3
secondary i am fine with- can find another and have too much $ there
DT- 1
OL- at least 2, maybe 3
TE- at least 1
WR- health
RB- need 1
LBs (edge + middle) - need 2-3
secondary i am fine with- can find another and have too much $ there
DT- 1
I would say at least 2 TE's as Rudolph has to go and EE is a free agent.
The Giants need Barkley to look like an ascending player these last 6 games and trade him this off-season
..
They probably are stuck with Jones BUT if they can get a VET a lot of things improve just with that. I don't want to give up draft capital so stuck with Jones.
Dexter Lawrence should be available for trade if we truly want 2022 to be a building year and cap correction year.
Yup. A problem they have too is a couple of their defensive stalwarts (Williams, Martinez, Bradberry, Ryan) are likely to phase out sooner than later in next two yrs due to age, injury, or cap charge. People keep clamoring for cluster OL drafting, but that defense needs young playmaking talent fast in order to avoid big problems. Hence, why new outsider GM is ideal and decision on Jones is needed somewhat quicker than people think.
You tried to improve o-line and offensive playmakers surrounding Jones. On a game-to-game basis you failed miserably, for whatever reason. But writing off Jones because you tried?
If no cost for moving on, fine, but in what universe is there no cost. Impossible cost in alternate use of draft choices and salary cap hit.
You tried to improve o-line and offensive playmakers surrounding Jones. On a game-to-game basis you failed miserably, for whatever reason. But writing off Jones because you tried?
If no cost for moving on, fine, but in what universe is there no cost. Impossible cost in alternate use of draft choices and salary cap hit.
This is year 4 for Barkley at a position with a short shelf life. When is the light going to turn on, year 6? Year 8? Barkley is what he is at this point which is not very good.
QB - Bad
RB - who cares
WR - league average
OL - bad and we probably need to fill 4 starting spots
TE - we don't have any
DL (run stopping) - OK
DL (pass rushing) - maybe the worst in the league
LB - very bad
DB - league average (maybe slightly above)
We have like $200 M in salary commitments for $80 M worth of talent.
They’ll also have a bigger rookie pool to contend with financially, especially if they have two top 5 picks.
Some likely outcomes include cutting Shepard, Dixon, Rudolph, and maybe Ryan. And hoping Martinez and Bradberry play ball on extensions which is no guarantee.
There’s a very good chance this Giants team looks pretty different if there is a new GM.
They’ll also have a bigger rookie pool to contend with financially, especially if they have two top 5 picks.
Some likely outcomes include cutting Shepard, Dixon, Rudolph, and maybe Ryan. And hoping Martinez and Bradberry play ball on extensions which is no guarantee.
There’s a very good chance this Giants team looks pretty different if there is a new GM.
With no money, a new GM is not going to make this team look much different. Even DG can find 3-4 starters in the draft or UDFAs. The question is (same as always even with Coughlin) ‘can this staff recognize and develop the talent they are given?’
Ryan isn’t and shouldn’t be going anywhere. Versatile and talented although McKinney is going to control the back end of the defense.. More likely Peppers is leaving. He is not a good deep safety but could be valuable as an in-the-box safety and LB. Crazy but Peppers maybe could have been a more productive RB this year than Barkley/Booker have been.
With 29 UFAs, and three day one starters question marks, the Giants will look much different. Especially because they are in a resource bind.
1) The Giants need to create money to operate. Last year the big well was cutting Zeitler and redoing Solder. They’ll do similar this year. The biggest cut targets are Shepard, Rudolph, Dixon, and I believe Ryan (more below).
They’ll also restructure and extend where they can. A really intriguing story is whether Bradberry is willing to extend.
Players who have logged 10% + snaps who are UFAs/potential cuts:
Shepard, Rudolph, Dixon, Ryan, Hernandez, Solder, Skura, Price, Skura, Engram, A. Johnson, Ragland, Carter, Peppers, Ross, Shelton, B. McKinney, Penny, Pettis, Board.
I’m not convinced. It really depends on what portion of his salary is guaranteed in 2022 (this has not been reported).
If his 2022 salary doesn’t become guaranteed on a trigger, cutting him saves 18.5M over the next two years.
I think there’s a case to be made that Love and McKinney have both outplayed Ryan this year.