Same problems that were evident Week 1-sloppiness, soft defense to end half, no offense, no clue what he is doing on TOs, lack of balls in terms of going for it on 4th down-are evident December 5th. No improvement whatsoever from JJ.
I can accept lots of growing pains with a new HC. It is about acknowledging, making the corrections and progressing.
This lack of killer instinct is tough for me to continue patience. I was livid at the end of the WFT and mentioned it than with the passive coaching.
It just keeps continuing. Unfortunately it is just who he is. I would hate playing for that type of coach and wonder what the players true feelings are.
is they think they can coach the same way as Bill without the personnel. Belichik forces the other team to make mistakes on the field or in decisions. Judge doesn't have the personnel to play conservative, but coaches as if he does - clearly should've went for it on 4th and 2.
as others said, he doesn't. Roster may suck, but he has a say in that and he's made a lot of bad decisions. I haven't seen a single reason he should stay
Let him go back to Belichick or join the staff at Mississippi state.
I was buying way too long what he way selling.
You aren't the only one he got. I certainly bought what he was selling.
I'm usually pretty good at seeing through the fluff. But because I think I have been so beaten down by Gettleman's idiocy, I just gravitated towards someone/something sounding competent/professional...
is similar to evaluating Jones. The roster sucks, they are not in good situations. However, there should be some evidence that they are elevating those around them. Neither show any sign of that.
Let him go back to Belichick or join the staff at Mississippi state.
I was buying way too long what he way selling.
You aren't the only one he got. I certainly bought what he was selling.
I'm usually pretty good at seeing through the fluff. But because I think I have been so beaten down by Gettleman's idiocy, I just gravitated towards someone/something sounding competent/professional...
The thirsty say muddied water tastes good.
It isn't a lack of talent (and there is) but he just can't coach those
players on the field. He's clueless. All the talent in the world isn't going to make him a better coach. I've been on the JJ bandwagon for a long time. I'm good with firing his a$$ at the end of the year.
for the massive injury situation at WR, and OL. But... he just doesn't seem to have what it takes.
The team hasn't quit, but it isn't exactly playing inspired football.
A lot depends on his role behind the scene. It was widely speculated that he had a loud voice in draft/player acquisition. IF true, he's part of the problem in the team that has been assembled.
All in all, go with a clean slate. New GM, new coaching staff.
That feel like Judge doesn’t deserve another year doesn’t really understand football.. he has been held back by a barbaric offensive system that was forced on him by management and a gm who will have one of the worst quality of personnel I’ve ever seen.
People will have the audacity to say what about these last two weeks as if it’s still not Garrett’s Fred Flinstone of a playbook. If you wanna see what Judge is made of give him 2 seasons where he has a competent GM and allow him to put his desired offense in place. If it pisses you off to think of having to give Judge more years then blame the Mara’s for their continued ineptitude.
probably two top ten picks and a good amount of picks overall in the first 100. You have to be totally on board. You wait a year too long the cycle continues. On top of that they need to address the QB. How confident is everyone with Judge selecting/breaking in a new QB?
RE: It should be a lesson on not judging a coach by
How he speaks in front of a microphone or even what he says. He said all the right things in the right way. The media bought into him too.
Guilty.
Can't wait to hear Judge's presser where we are: "...going back to work...."; "...need to see the film before I comment..."; "...going to make this work and make the fans proud..."
probably two top ten picks and a good amount of picks overall in the first 100. You have to be totally on board. You wait a year too long the cycle continues. On top of that they need to address the QB. How confident is everyone with Judge selecting/breaking in a new QB?
Look, Gettleman and Judge need to be out. But, given that we will have two first round picks we really need to have a front office that is functional. We hire one in January, they go get a head coach and by May we are drafting. Doesn't seem like a lot of time to get a huge turnarounds, but whatever.
How he speaks in front of a microphone or even what he says. He said all the right things in the right way. The media bought into him too.
Guilty.
Can't wait to hear Judge's presser where we are: "...going back to work...."; "...need to see the film before I comment..."; "...going to make this work and make the fans proud..."
That feel like Judge doesn’t deserve another year doesn’t really understand football.. he has been held back by a barbaric offensive system that was forced on him by management and a gm who will have one of the worst quality of personnel I’ve ever seen.
People will have the audacity to say what about these last two weeks as if it’s still not Garrett’s Fred Flinstone of a playbook. If you wanna see what Judge is made of give him 2 seasons where he has a competent GM and allow him to put his desired offense in place. If it pisses you off to think of having to give Judge more years then blame the Mara’s for their continued ineptitude.
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
I don't love Judge. But, to me, the ONLY reason he should be the3 HC next year is if the next GM truly believes he should be. Not because Mara doesn't want to fire another HC. Because that just waters down the GM search right out of the gate.
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.
RE: It should be a lesson on not judging a coach by
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.
Unfortunately the real decision makers (John Mara, Chris Mara) aren't going anywhere.
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.
He will have that power after a year of evaluating the team from the HC down to the players. I'm not saying this is the smart thing to do I'm just pointing out that Mara will not fire his 3rd coach in 6 years. That's not how the Giants do things
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.
He will have that power after a year of evaluating the team from the HC down to the players. I'm not saying this is the smart thing to do I'm just pointing out that Mara will not fire his 3rd coach in 6 years. That's not how the Giants do things
I think you may be right and it makes me sick. "The way the Giants do things" is and has been the problem.
Embarrassment would be the only thing that's saving him
DG was on the radio indicating that he wanted to give Shurmer time to develop Jones. The decision to remove Shurmer came from above.
.
This seems like a reach. What we’re the indicators?
Who really knows who fires and hires the coaches. It’s a big part of the problem.
Perhaps most notably, Gettleman admitted that he didn’t want to fire Shurmur, the first coach he hired, and that the order came directly from ownership. “Came from above,” he said of the decision.
There were reports that co-owner Steve Tisch was pushing for Shurmur’s firing, and his view ultimately won out with controlling owner John Mara.
Ultra-conservative offense paired with a prevent D that relies on pitching shutouts in the redzone. Strategically he leaves himself almost zero room for error, and needs a perfect game from his D.
It's akin to playing rope-a-dope and hoping the other team punches itself out while they're kicking your ass.
It goes way beyond personnel problems too - he's shown no ability to put together an aggressive gameplan. Even if the Giants were good, Judge's BS would get them beat in the Playoffs. You keep waiting to see more and week after week, it's a nothing-burger.
He almost acts like scoring and trying to win the game are immaterial. That he's got as many years as he wants to build a dynasty. This is NY and he's going to be lucky to make it out of this year alive. The Maras are very sensitive to fan criticism and if things get really bad for Judge, they'll have no choice.
And like so many of DG/Mara reaches he has not panned out. Clueless and like his GM a glib speaker who loves sound bites. Unfortunately he is not a head coach. Cut the cord.
It's not because of a coaching edge that he gives them on the sideline. His clock game and his challenges are nothing to write home about. He's not some guru strategist. His specialty is STs and even they are mediocre.
It's not because he picks great assistants that put players in position to success and develop talent.
I don't think he's picking players and scouting.
So what's the reason for keeping him other than not paying yet another coach on the fired couch.
a coach could be as bad as McAdoo, but Judge is quickly changing my mind.
You could argue that McAdoo was better at this point simply because he knew SOMETHING about offense, even if it wasn't very much.
I'm not sure what Judge's redeeming qualities are.
McAdoo actually got a team with Eli Manning past his prime to the playoffs with an 11-5 record. Ben was a pretty bad coach (lost the locker room) but I think Judge is worse
The problem with retaining Judge is it will come with a mandate to overhaul his offensive staff most likely. At that point, it’s just more half measures. The deck needs to be cleared completely: Gettleman, Abrams & Judge all fired.
I stepped away for a minute and must have missed it. Did Judge
call another foolish timeout right before a quarter was about to end?
My friend who is a Dolphin fan is killing me about it today but I didn't see what happened.
anybody?
Thought the clock was gonna wind down in the first quarter, but thre was actually less time on the play clock than the game clock, so he had to call a TO.
In the second half he called a time-out at 2nd and 23 to prevent a delay of game. The results of the next two plays were a sack and an actual delay of game, resulting in a 3rd and 35 at the 4 yard line.
And I know it's not my money, so it's easier for me to say fire him knowing I'm not the one who will pay another coach guaranteed money to NOT coach. But, for me it's not just the record. At this point, I feel like we were sold a fake bill of goods. I don't know if the organization feels the same, but it certainly seems most fans do. Is he a liar, a con man, and used car salesman, a terrible coach, a combination, all of the above? I don't know, but it's somewhere in there and none of them lend themselves to success.
The timeout call right before the first half two minute warning
Was full on Bozo land. The Giants ended their final play at about 2:40 with about 40 seconds on the play clock. Not sure whether the warning will occur before the play clock expires? Should be no problem. You send in a play and go to the LOS and run it, right?
No. The Giants don’t send in a play, realize with a few seconds left that they need to run it before the 2-minute warning, call a Timeout and then let your HC give the ref an earful about… something.
The whole machine is breaking down.
RE: The timeout call right before the first half two minute warning
Was full on Bozo land. The Giants ended their final play at about 2:40 with about 40 seconds on the play clock. Not sure whether the warning will occur before the play clock expires? Should be no problem. You send in a play and go to the LOS and run it, right?
No. The Giants don’t send in a play, realize with a few seconds left that they need to run it before the 2-minute warning, call a Timeout and then let your HC give the ref an earful about… something.
The whole machine is breaking down.
Exactly. And these kinds of things are a weekly occurrence, multiple times per week.
Judge is in over his head, there isn't a reason good enough to give him the 3rd season.. As I said at the time, a lot of people around the league questioned the hiring and direction NYG was going.
Now admit the mistake and move on. The worst thing you can do is continue down this path. Forget everything else, ignore what will be said because none of it will matter once you get it right.
He has looked over his head this season. I also think he
his overwhelmed by how the Offensive Line unit has continued to be a crutch. Judge may even have contributed to some of those poor evaluations/decisions.
And I am fine giving him a 3rd season to start picking up his game...
I was all in on him up until very recently but he has fully lost me. Can't ever see him being a good NFL coach.
I was buying way too long what he way selling.
I was buying way too long what he way selling.
You aren't the only one he got. I certainly bought what he was selling.
This lack of killer instinct is tough for me to continue patience. I was livid at the end of the WFT and mentioned it than with the passive coaching.
It just keeps continuing. Unfortunately it is just who he is. I would hate playing for that type of coach and wonder what the players true feelings are.
Quote:
Let him go back to Belichick or join the staff at Mississippi state.
I was buying way too long what he way selling.
You aren't the only one he got. I certainly bought what he was selling.
I'm usually pretty good at seeing through the fluff. But because I think I have been so beaten down by Gettleman's idiocy, I just gravitated towards someone/something sounding competent/professional...
Quote:
In comment 15481729 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Let him go back to Belichick or join the staff at Mississippi state.
I was buying way too long what he way selling.
You aren't the only one he got. I certainly bought what he was selling.
I'm usually pretty good at seeing through the fluff. But because I think I have been so beaten down by Gettleman's idiocy, I just gravitated towards someone/something sounding competent/professional...
The thirsty say muddied water tastes good.
This guy blew away the maras in interviews. Between that and Belichick's rec, that's what got him the job.
All he has done is hire his friends and lose.
The team hasn't quit, but it isn't exactly playing inspired football.
A lot depends on his role behind the scene. It was widely speculated that he had a loud voice in draft/player acquisition. IF true, he's part of the problem in the team that has been assembled.
All in all, go with a clean slate. New GM, new coaching staff.
He can talk the talk, but he can't actually coach a football team.
People will have the audacity to say what about these last two weeks as if it’s still not Garrett’s Fred Flinstone of a playbook. If you wanna see what Judge is made of give him 2 seasons where he has a competent GM and allow him to put his desired offense in place. If it pisses you off to think of having to give Judge more years then blame the Mara’s for their continued ineptitude.
Guilty.
Can't wait to hear Judge's presser where we are: "...going back to work...."; "...need to see the film before I comment..."; "...going to make this work and make the fans proud..."
You get the picture.
He has no clue how to manage a game almost 2 yeats into it.
Look, Gettleman and Judge need to be out. But, given that we will have two first round picks we really need to have a front office that is functional. We hire one in January, they go get a head coach and by May we are drafting. Doesn't seem like a lot of time to get a huge turnarounds, but whatever.
Gettleman should have been fired after the 2019 season. He didn't deserve a 3rd year never mind a 4th
This guy blew away the maras in interviews. Between that and Belichick's rec, that's what got him the job.
All he has done is hire his friends and lose.
What you said here highlights how I likely have no idea what I'm looking at when evaluating.
This.
Quote:
How he speaks in front of a microphone or even what he says. He said all the right things in the right way. The media bought into him too.
Guilty.
Can't wait to hear Judge's presser where we are: "...going back to work...."; "...need to see the film before I comment..."; "...going to make this work and make the fans proud..."
You get the picture.
He is encouraged! Players making “big plays” lol
People will have the audacity to say what about these last two weeks as if it’s still not Garrett’s Fred Flinstone of a playbook. If you wanna see what Judge is made of give him 2 seasons where he has a competent GM and allow him to put his desired offense in place. If it pisses you off to think of having to give Judge more years then blame the Mara’s for their continued ineptitude.
You are either Judge or a moron.
Agreed.
This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.
This guy blew away the maras in interviews. Between that and Belichick's rec, that's what got him the job.
All he has done is hire his friends and lose.
The telling thing is, who else was in on Judge? The Maras were the only people blown away by this guy.
Quote:
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.
Unfortunately the real decision makers (John Mara, Chris Mara) aren't going anywhere.
Was quite surprised the Giants weren't in hurry up with about 4 minutes to go.
JJ doesn't know how to run a game day operation as a HC.
It's quite apparent and I think it's best to cut your losses now.
Let a new GM have the keys.
Quote:
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.
He will have that power after a year of evaluating the team from the HC down to the players. I'm not saying this is the smart thing to do I'm just pointing out that Mara will not fire his 3rd coach in 6 years. That's not how the Giants do things
Would have been better for Jones, true.
I think you're right.
Quote:
In comment 15482155 montanagiant said:
Quote:
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season
This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.
He will have that power after a year of evaluating the team from the HC down to the players. I'm not saying this is the smart thing to do I'm just pointing out that Mara will not fire his 3rd coach in 6 years. That's not how the Giants do things
I think you may be right and it makes me sick. "The way the Giants do things" is and has been the problem.
NY becoming a graveyard job for head coaches now. NFL needs to intervene to save the NY market.
This seems like a reach. What we’re the indicators?
Who really knows who fires and hires the coaches. It’s a big part of the problem.
Quote:
DG was on the radio indicating that he wanted to give Shurmer time to develop Jones. The decision to remove Shurmer came from above.
.
This seems like a reach. What we’re the indicators?
Who really knows who fires and hires the coaches. It’s a big part of the problem.
Perhaps most notably, Gettleman admitted that he didn’t want to fire Shurmur, the first coach he hired, and that the order came directly from ownership. “Came from above,” he said of the decision.
There were reports that co-owner Steve Tisch was pushing for Shurmur’s firing, and his view ultimately won out with controlling owner John Mara.
Link - ( New Window )
It's akin to playing rope-a-dope and hoping the other team punches itself out while they're kicking your ass.
It goes way beyond personnel problems too - he's shown no ability to put together an aggressive gameplan. Even if the Giants were good, Judge's BS would get them beat in the Playoffs. You keep waiting to see more and week after week, it's a nothing-burger.
He almost acts like scoring and trying to win the game are immaterial. That he's got as many years as he wants to build a dynasty. This is NY and he's going to be lucky to make it out of this year alive. The Maras are very sensitive to fan criticism and if things get really bad for Judge, they'll have no choice.
But for all his big talk his teams play soft sloppy and stupid. The sequence at the end of the third quarter 3rd and 33 was icing on the cake.
We need a new GM new coach and this time around Mara needs to look and think outside the box and put some effort into the process.
It's not because he picks great assistants that put players in position to success and develop talent.
I don't think he's picking players and scouting.
So what's the reason for keeping him other than not paying yet another coach on the fired couch.
You could argue that McAdoo was better at this point simply because he knew SOMETHING about offense, even if it wasn't very much.
I'm not sure what Judge's redeeming qualities are.
We are lucky to see Gettleman retire this year, let’s not ask for the moon and have Judge be gone as well.
Let the new GM handle the draft, play out the strings with Judge and Jones next year, and hope for the best in 2023.
He has no idea on time management in game.
He has no idea when to go for it on 4th down.
I wish we could fire him today.
You could argue that McAdoo was better at this point simply because he knew SOMETHING about offense, even if it wasn't very much.
I'm not sure what Judge's redeeming qualities are.
McAdoo actually got a team with Eli Manning past his prime to the playoffs with an 11-5 record. Ben was a pretty bad coach (lost the locker room) but I think Judge is worse
My friend who is a Dolphin fan is killing me about it today but I didn't see what happened.
anybody?
My friend who is a Dolphin fan is killing me about it today but I didn't see what happened.
anybody?
Thought the clock was gonna wind down in the first quarter, but thre was actually less time on the play clock than the game clock, so he had to call a TO.
In the second half he called a time-out at 2nd and 23 to prevent a delay of game. The results of the next two plays were a sack and an actual delay of game, resulting in a 3rd and 35 at the 4 yard line.
No. The Giants don’t send in a play, realize with a few seconds left that they need to run it before the 2-minute warning, call a Timeout and then let your HC give the ref an earful about… something.
The whole machine is breaking down.
No. The Giants don’t send in a play, realize with a few seconds left that they need to run it before the 2-minute warning, call a Timeout and then let your HC give the ref an earful about… something.
The whole machine is breaking down.
Now admit the mistake and move on. The worst thing you can do is continue down this path. Forget everything else, ignore what will be said because none of it will matter once you get it right.
And I am fine giving him a 3rd season to start picking up his game...