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Why does Joe Judge deserve a 3rd season?

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/5/2021 3:56 pm
Same problems that were evident Week 1-sloppiness, soft defense to end half, no offense, no clue what he is doing on TOs, lack of balls in terms of going for it on 4th down-are evident December 5th. No improvement whatsoever from JJ.
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Gotta say.....  
BillKo : 12/5/2021 5:06 pm : link
...didn't get the game down here in South Jersey so what little they showed I saw on Red Zone.

Was quite surprised the Giants weren't in hurry up with about 4 minutes to go.

JJ doesn't know how to run a game day operation as a HC.

It's quite apparent and I think it's best to cut your losses now.

Let a new GM have the keys.
GM didn’t bring Judge in  
Giants73 : 12/5/2021 5:09 pm : link
DG was on the radio indicating that he wanted to give Shurmer time to develop Jones. The decision to remove Shurmer came from above.
RE: RE: It's not if he deserves it  
montanagiant : 12/5/2021 5:13 pm : link
In comment 15482177 Gmen88 said:
Quote:
In comment 15482155 montanagiant said:


Quote:


It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season



This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.

He will have that power after a year of evaluating the team from the HC down to the players. I'm not saying this is the smart thing to do I'm just pointing out that Mara will not fire his 3rd coach in 6 years. That's not how the Giants do things
RE: GM didn’t bring Judge in  
jeff57 : 12/5/2021 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15482236 Giants73 said:
Quote:
DG was on the radio indicating that he wanted to give Shurmer time to develop Jones. The decision to remove Shurmer came from above.


Would have been better for Jones, true.
Belichick and Saban called John Mara  
jeff57 : 12/5/2021 5:16 pm : link
And then probably had a good laugh.
We will be on coach # 5 in just 8 years come 22  
weeg in the bronx : 12/5/2021 5:21 pm : link
That’s as bad as it gets for any franchise.
RE: It's not if he deserves it  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/5/2021 5:26 pm : link
In comment 15482155 montanagiant said:
Quote:
It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season


I think you're right.
RE: RE: RE: It's not if he deserves it  
Gmen88 : 12/5/2021 5:35 pm : link
In comment 15482259 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15482177 Gmen88 said:


Quote:


In comment 15482155 montanagiant said:


Quote:


It's that there is no way the Giants will fire their 3rd coach in 6 years. That more than anything else will be why he's here next season. They will bring in a new GM and everyone will be on notice this next season



This is not how successful organizations operate. The new GM should be able to make whatever decision he pleases.


He will have that power after a year of evaluating the team from the HC down to the players. I'm not saying this is the smart thing to do I'm just pointing out that Mara will not fire his 3rd coach in 6 years. That's not how the Giants do things


I think you may be right and it makes me sick. "The way the Giants do things" is and has been the problem.
Embarrassment would be the only thing that's saving him  
ghost718 : 12/5/2021 5:39 pm : link
and that's not a good enough reason for a 3rd year
RE: He doesn't  
MeanBunny : 12/5/2021 5:45 pm : link
Schumer was a better coach...
NY becoming a graveyard job for head coaches now. NFL needs to intervene to save the NY market.
That JJ quote in presser about offense.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/5/2021 5:46 pm : link
I want him fired tonight.
RE: GM didn’t bring Judge in  
Lines of Scrimmage : 12/5/2021 5:57 pm : link
In comment 15482236 Giants73 said:
Quote:
DG was on the radio indicating that he wanted to give Shurmer time to develop Jones. The decision to remove Shurmer came from above.
.

This seems like a reach. What we’re the indicators?

Who really knows who fires and hires the coaches. It’s a big part of the problem.
Unless there's a locker revolt in the final five weeks  
BlackLight : 12/5/2021 6:04 pm : link
Judge isn't going anywhere. Mara doesn't want to blow the coaching staff up again after two years, and all these injuries give Judge adequate cover.
RE: RE: GM didn’t bring Judge in  
ron mexico : 12/5/2021 6:07 pm : link
In comment 15482416 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
In comment 15482236 Giants73 said:


Quote:


DG was on the radio indicating that he wanted to give Shurmer time to develop Jones. The decision to remove Shurmer came from above.

.

This seems like a reach. What we’re the indicators?

Who really knows who fires and hires the coaches. It’s a big part of the problem.


Perhaps most notably, Gettleman admitted that he didn’t want to fire Shurmur, the first coach he hired, and that the order came directly from ownership. “Came from above,” he said of the decision.

There were reports that co-owner Steve Tisch was pushing for Shurmur’s firing, and his view ultimately won out with controlling owner John Mara.

Link - ( New Window )
I despise his style of play.  
mittenedman : 12/5/2021 6:24 pm : link
Ultra-conservative offense paired with a prevent D that relies on pitching shutouts in the redzone. Strategically he leaves himself almost zero room for error, and needs a perfect game from his D.

It's akin to playing rope-a-dope and hoping the other team punches itself out while they're kicking your ass.

It goes way beyond personnel problems too - he's shown no ability to put together an aggressive gameplan. Even if the Giants were good, Judge's BS would get them beat in the Playoffs. You keep waiting to see more and week after week, it's a nothing-burger.

He almost acts like scoring and trying to win the game are immaterial. That he's got as many years as he wants to build a dynasty. This is NY and he's going to be lucky to make it out of this year alive. The Maras are very sensitive to fan criticism and if things get really bad for Judge, they'll have no choice.
He Was A Reach  
Jeffrey : 12/5/2021 8:07 pm : link
And like so many of DG/Mara reaches he has not panned out. Clueless and like his GM a glib speaker who loves sound bites. Unfortunately he is not a head coach. Cut the cord.
Mara  
Les in TO : 12/5/2021 8:19 pm : link
And Gettleman likely purred like cats after the interviews with his talk of hard nosed football and his exposure to two of the greats in BB and Saban

But for all his big talk his teams play soft sloppy and stupid. The sequence at the end of the third quarter 3rd and 33 was icing on the cake.

We need a new GM new coach and this time around Mara needs to look and think outside the box and put some effort into the process.

I haven't seen anyone really put together an argument for keeping him  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/6/2021 9:10 am : link
It's not because of a coaching edge that he gives them on the sideline. His clock game and his challenges are nothing to write home about. He's not some guru strategist. His specialty is STs and even they are mediocre.

It's not because he picks great assistants that put players in position to success and develop talent.

I don't think he's picking players and scouting.

So what's the reason for keeping him other than not paying yet another coach on the fired couch.

I used to think there was no way  
mittenedman : 12/6/2021 9:11 am : link
a coach could be as bad as McAdoo, but Judge is quickly changing my mind.

You could argue that McAdoo was better at this point simply because he knew SOMETHING about offense, even if it wasn't very much.

I'm not sure what Judge's redeeming qualities are.
Honestly I think he just stands on the sideline and has zero input on  
Jim in Hoboken : 12/6/2021 9:20 am : link
the game.

We are lucky to see Gettleman retire this year, let’s not ask for the moon and have Judge be gone as well.

Let the new GM handle the draft, play out the strings with Judge and Jones next year, and hope for the best in 2023.
I can't think of a single reason  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/6/2021 9:24 am : link
He doesn't know how to use TOs.

He has no idea on time management in game.

He has no idea when to go for it on 4th down.

I wish we could fire him today.

RE: I used to think there was no way  
dpinzow : 12/6/2021 9:28 am : link
In comment 15483387 mittenedman said:
Quote:
a coach could be as bad as McAdoo, but Judge is quickly changing my mind.

You could argue that McAdoo was better at this point simply because he knew SOMETHING about offense, even if it wasn't very much.

I'm not sure what Judge's redeeming qualities are.


McAdoo actually got a team with Eli Manning past his prime to the playoffs with an 11-5 record. Ben was a pretty bad coach (lost the locker room) but I think Judge is worse
He doesn’t and I have liked Judge..  
Sean : 12/6/2021 9:29 am : link
The problem with retaining Judge is it will come with a mandate to overhaul his offensive staff most likely. At that point, it’s just more half measures. The deck needs to be cleared completely: Gettleman, Abrams & Judge all fired.
I stepped away for a minute and must have missed it. Did Judge  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2021 9:33 am : link
call another foolish timeout right before a quarter was about to end?

My friend who is a Dolphin fan is killing me about it today but I didn't see what happened.

anybody?
RE: I stepped away for a minute and must have missed it. Did Judge  
madeinstars : 12/6/2021 9:38 am : link
In comment 15483441 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
call another foolish timeout right before a quarter was about to end?

My friend who is a Dolphin fan is killing me about it today but I didn't see what happened.

anybody?


Thought the clock was gonna wind down in the first quarter, but thre was actually less time on the play clock than the game clock, so he had to call a TO.

In the second half he called a time-out at 2nd and 23 to prevent a delay of game. The results of the next two plays were a sack and an actual delay of game, resulting in a 3rd and 35 at the 4 yard line.
I'd say yes  
bc4life : 12/6/2021 4:25 pm : link
Not sure he's a long-term answer yet, but I've seen enough to think he gets one more year.
He doesn't  
Matt M. : 12/6/2021 4:39 pm : link
And I know it's not my money, so it's easier for me to say fire him knowing I'm not the one who will pay another coach guaranteed money to NOT coach. But, for me it's not just the record. At this point, I feel like we were sold a fake bill of goods. I don't know if the organization feels the same, but it certainly seems most fans do. Is he a liar, a con man, and used car salesman, a terrible coach, a combination, all of the above? I don't know, but it's somewhere in there and none of them lend themselves to success.
The timeout call right before the first half two minute warning  
cosmicj : 12/6/2021 4:49 pm : link
Was full on Bozo land. The Giants ended their final play at about 2:40 with about 40 seconds on the play clock. Not sure whether the warning will occur before the play clock expires? Should be no problem. You send in a play and go to the LOS and run it, right?

No. The Giants don’t send in a play, realize with a few seconds left that they need to run it before the 2-minute warning, call a Timeout and then let your HC give the ref an earful about… something.

The whole machine is breaking down.
RE: The timeout call right before the first half two minute warning  
Matt M. : 12/6/2021 4:51 pm : link
In comment 15484332 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Was full on Bozo land. The Giants ended their final play at about 2:40 with about 40 seconds on the play clock. Not sure whether the warning will occur before the play clock expires? Should be no problem. You send in a play and go to the LOS and run it, right?

No. The Giants don’t send in a play, realize with a few seconds left that they need to run it before the 2-minute warning, call a Timeout and then let your HC give the ref an earful about… something.

The whole machine is breaking down.
Exactly. And these kinds of things are a weekly occurrence, multiple times per week.
---  
Peppers : 12/6/2021 4:59 pm : link
Judge is in over his head, there isn't a reason good enough to give him the 3rd season.. As I said at the time, a lot of people around the league questioned the hiring and direction NYG was going.

Now admit the mistake and move on. The worst thing you can do is continue down this path. Forget everything else, ignore what will be said because none of it will matter once you get it right.
He has looked over his head this season. I also think he  
Jimmy Googs : 12/6/2021 7:19 pm : link
his overwhelmed by how the Offensive Line unit has continued to be a crutch. Judge may even have contributed to some of those poor evaluations/decisions.

And I am fine giving him a 3rd season to start picking up his game...

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