The results are definitely and definitively in... Dave Gettleman is an incompetent boob. Might be a nice man. But he has failed miserably.
He was one of the principle figures in hiring the last two head coaches. He has overseen four drafts and free agency periods. He blew BOTH the #2 and #6 picks in the entire draft.
Jerry Reese and Marc Ross were dreadful. But to follow them up with Gettleman has been a gigantic disaster.
The damage that Gettleman has done is fresher in the minds of fans, but Reese had horrific drafts that turned this team into a joke in just a few years. Go back and look at Reese's draft history from 2011 to 2017. Look at his free agents then too.
Exactly. David Wilson, Eli Apple, Evan Engram, Erick Flowers. Not to mention some absurd midround picks. What saves him compared o Gettleman is that he didn't have to pick a QB, and had some successes like JPP, Nicks and Beckham.
Reese's tenure ended poorly but he had a pretty good first few years that led to a second Super Bowl win. And he also deserves credit for the 2007 team - that '07 draft was great.
Reese's tenure ended poorly but he had a pretty good first few years that led to a second Super Bowl win. And he also deserves credit for the 2007 team - that '07 draft was great.
No I think many people (including me) have said he (and the Dept. in place for scouting with him) was very good at targeting and selecting specialized skill players. But the fact is the team deteriorated profoundly under his watch, with awful drafting especially around OL and overall team depth. He may or may not be better than Gettleman, but at this point that's not saying much.
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Do people forget Reese drafted Nicks and JPP, critical pieces to the 2011 run?
Reese's tenure ended poorly but he had a pretty good first few years that led to a second Super Bowl win. And he also deserves credit for the 2007 team - that '07 draft was great.
No I think many people (including me) have said he (and the Dept. in place for scouting with him) was very good at targeting and selecting specialized skill players. But the fact is the team deteriorated profoundly under his watch, with awful drafting especially around OL and overall team depth. He may or may not be better than Gettleman, but at this point that's not saying much.
He is 100% better than Gettleman, it isn't even close. And for as bad as his Oline drafting was, he's still got a couple players he drafted starting and contributing in the league.
The foundation of the 2007-2011 teams were build with Accorsi as GM, Reese as Director of College Scouting, and Gettleman as the Pro Personnel man.
Once Reese became GM and appointed Ross as Director of College Scouting, the drafts destroyed the team. We're not talking about 1, 2, 3 drafts. We're talking about 6, 7, 8 bad drafts in a row.
Jerry Reese Fired - ( New Window )
The 2011 was dead last or near dead last in defense and running the football. The OL was on its last legs. Eli, Nicks, and Cruz carried the Giants to the playoffs. The defense and running game then showed signs of life in the playoffs. The reason why the team fell apart so quickly is that he wasn't drafting well.
Now that doesnt take away what he did as a scout and as a GM til 2011. He should get credit for that.
But lets not act like he left Gettleman a gold mine when he was fired. that 2017 team was fucking abysmal and we had too many players making too much money and thats all on Ross and reese.
Gettleman's legacy will forever be tied to Barkley and Jones.
But the most painfully comical aspect of his tenure here was his inability to fix the OL that he claimed he would fix.
That 2011 team was enormously top-heavy, but he drafted those star players. We don't win the 2011 Super Bowl without JPP or Nicks.
Reese is worlds better than the obese buffoon we currently have.
The foundation of the 2007-2011 teams were build with Accorsi as GM, Reese as Director of College Scouting, and Gettleman as the Pro Personnel man.
Once Reese became GM and appointed Ross as Director of College Scouting, the drafts destroyed the team. We're not talking about 1, 2, 3 drafts. We're talking about 6, 7, 8 bad drafts in a row.
If we thought Ross was bad as Director of College Scouting, Louis Riddick will be that on steroids as GM. Neither have any idea how teams are built and rely on height/weight/speed/tools and not whether they have a toolbox or can actually play at the next level.
That 2011 team was enormously top-heavy, but he drafted those star players. We don't win the 2011 Super Bowl without JPP or Nicks.
Didnt the Jets draft Cruz?
- Greg Buttle
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He had been GM for 4 years at that point and while the core might have started to rot...they had enough to win it all. Reese fully deserves blame for the mess that ensued. If you are comparing tenures as GM between Gettleman and Reese...it is not really even close.
The 2011 was dead last or near dead last in defense and running the football. The OL was on its last legs. Eli, Nicks, and Cruz carried the Giants to the playoffs. The defense and running game then showed signs of life in the playoffs. The reason why the team fell apart so quickly is that he wasn't drafting well.
All relevant statements...the core was rotting. But when it mattered they had the players on the roster who stepped up. I do not think anyone is saying Reese was a good GM or did not deserve to get fired. Gettleman has been GM for 4 years and no one is defending him based on what happened 4 years ago. Reese's roster won a Super Bowl 4 years into his tenure yet we don't give him credit for that?
Picking at the top of the Draft every year, maxing out the cap every year, and spending above his means on the cap that it caused contracts to be restructured every year, these are the results from Gettleman's time:
5-11 season
4-12 season
6-10 season
5-12 season (estimated)
Ironically, 4 years later we are left today with a team that needs better coaching, will need to turnover their starting QB, rebuild an OL, find more impactful players on Defense, and build a winning culture.
well done Dave...
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is failing to fix the OL. It compounds mistakes made elsewhere. And the drumbeat to replace Jones is a mistake prior to actually fixing the damn OL. Get the OL fixed and then find your QB.
Gettleman's legacy will forever be tied to Barkley and Jones.
But the most painfully comical aspect of his tenure here was his inability to fix the OL that he claimed he would fix.
Would you agree that Barkley and Jones might have been negatively impacted by the shitty OL? We don't know the future, but both Barkley and Jones could go on to long NFL careers. They might not be stars, but I can see a scenario where they are important cogs in some team. Should players careers in the end be evaluated based on draft position or what they did over the spanse of their career?
Clean. House.
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is failing to fix the OL. It compounds mistakes made elsewhere. And the drumbeat to replace Jones is a mistake prior to actually fixing the damn OL. Get the OL fixed and then find your QB.
Gettleman's legacy will forever be tied to Barkley and Jones.
But the most painfully comical aspect of his tenure here was his inability to fix the OL that he claimed he would fix.
I think Jones and Barkley would have been fine if it wasn't for the utter, total disaster of a failure to fix the line - that and some dreadfully awful FA signings, i.e., Stewart, Solder, over paying for others like Jackson and Golladay.
...and Abrams too for not talking DG out of some of these signings.
He was mediocre in high school, which is why he ended up walking on at Duke. He never particularly stood out at Duke, either. Now he's stinking it up in the pros. Face it, the guy just isn't all that good.
JPP, Joseph, Nicks, Beatty, Phillips, Thomas, Manningham, Ross, Smith, Boss, DeOssie, and Bradhshaw were all competent NFL players.
Landing 12 legit players who contributed to winning teams over a 4 year draft period is a good clip.
Reese had a very competent front half, and a very incompetent back half tenure as the GM.
And yet somehow, even as poorly as the team was constructed from 2013-2017 — those teams were a notch better than anything Gettleman has put on the field.
He was mediocre in high school, which is why he ended up walking on at Duke. He never particularly stood out at Duke, either. Now he's stinking it up in the pros. Face it, the guy just isn't all that good.
Are there worse QBs than DJ? Yeah. But like Goff, unless the situation around him is right AND everything breaks his/the teams way , he's not going to get very far in the playoffs, if ge gets there at all
Even the fucking BArkley pick, one I have defended as recently as last night right here, and I don't question the talent like some, but the team was so BAD and so thin along the OL and the QB was old....
Sorry I even entertained the notion of defending these moves. I defended Dave Brown somewhat as well, prior to 1997. I thought I learned a lot of lessons over the years watching this franchise succeed and fail but I guess my heart and fandom wanted to feel some hope even in the face of certain doom.
You take a RB at 2-3-4-5 when you have a ready made OL in place. Not in 2018 when Nate Solder is your best lineman.
Not that it matters. We could have taken any other great player at 2 and we'd still be a hot mess today. BUT...and this is a big one, if they just forced a QB then they don't take Jones one year later and maybe the QB they did take at 2 was the right one. Even allowing for the choice of Darnold, Rosen, Allen and Jackon, maybe they pick Allen...
No way in hell this franchise takes allen or jackson though, who the hell we kidding...
whatever, fans don't need to always be right, the GM and HC does. And the fact that I have considered better moves than DG has pulled off here speaks volumes.
I am terrified of what we do next.
JPP, Joseph, Nicks, Beatty, Phillips, Thomas, Manningham, Ross, Smith, Boss, DeOssie, and Bradhshaw were all competent NFL players.
Landing 12 legit players who contributed to winning teams over a 4 year draft period is a good clip.
Reese had a very competent front half, and a very incompetent back half tenure as the GM.
And yet somehow, even as poorly as the team was constructed from 2013-2017 — those teams were a notch better than anything Gettleman has put on the field.
Reese's later drafts were pretty bad, but he also drafted a whole bunch of very good players whose careers were either prematurely ended or severely degraded due to major injuries.
Another thing to point out with Reese: Pugh & Flowers have since flourished elsewhere. JPP is still a cog in Tampa.
I find it insulting when people compare Gettleman to Reese. You can’t just ignore the first half of his tenure.
He was mediocre in high school, which is why he ended up walking on at Duke. He never particularly stood out at Duke, either. Now he's stinking it up in the pros. Face it, the guy just isn't all that good.
He never would have been Rodgers or Mahomes. My fine is at worst average. He was pretty damn good his 1st year except for the fumbles. So what changed? He improved his turnovers but his game got worse. Why did that happen except that they changed coaching staffs.
I think he is toast here and was never as good as DG thought, but Shurmur sure did a good job with him. So yeah, given a good line I think he would have been good enough.
Nicks
Cruz
Manningham
^^these guys were no older than 25. It was early 2012. These were "made" guys who could talk the talk with any WR group in the NFL. They were bad ass. They were talented. They were explosive and consistent. And they were world champions. By the time those thoughts sunk in, they were hurt, or worse. The run lasted 2 years. 2 years and it was completely over before they were over the age of 26.
Next up is the guys that didn't even last that long:
David Wilson
Justin Pugh
Richburg
Odell Beckham*
^^Beckham was the mega star while the former 3 were ok players but once again we got NOTHING out these guys after 2-3 years. Pugh is still playing and playing well but his injury history in NY all but forced NYG to move on. Wilson and Richburg should have at least been average players who could hold the fort for a few years but nope.
The jinx is over? Nope:
Shepard
Barkley
Thomas
Gates
Toney
^^some of these are still too early to proclaim just yet, but early returns look ohhh so familiar. Toney shows huge talent and misses virtually THE ENTIRE SEASON. BArkley is all pro after year one only to virtually disappear ever since. Shepard is just lovely--doesn't miss a game in year 1 now can't go a month without missing the following month. In any other universe Shepard looks more like Cooper Kupp
after 4-5 seasons but not here. Things don't grow here. They die. Time and time again. Andrew Thomas and Gates are next on the hit list. I'll believe in either guy long term when I see it. We are fucking jinxed.
I won't list Daniel Jones because I don't think the injuries have caused his play to slip as much as the others I listed.
We suck..fair and square, but we are fucking jinxed.
Clean. House.
Speaking of which- where is the movie impresario? He had a lot to say about the situation you mention but has been silent on the debacle taking place right now.
He's drafted well. Yep. Well enough to have the worst record in the NFL during his tenure here.
He's drafted well alright.
He has not drafted well.
The foundation of the 2007-2011 teams were build with Accorsi as GM, Reese as Director of College Scouting, and Gettleman as the Pro Personnel man.
Once Reese became GM and appointed Ross as Director of College Scouting, the drafts destroyed the team. We're not talking about 1, 2, 3 drafts. We're talking about 6, 7, 8 bad drafts in a row.
Reese's big mistake was not rebuilding the OL immediately after the 2011 Super Bowl win and assuming that they could stand up for another run in 2012. Once he was forced to rebuild the OL, he drafted the wrong players
Guy hasn't played football in forever. 6 months older than Antonio Brown. 1 year older than Julio Jones.
Draft slot of a player might as well be an arbitrary number. Was Saquon a RB worth $8m per season before his injury? Yes. Is Gettleman a time traveler that could predict an ACL tear?
Draft slot of a player might as well be an arbitrary number. Was Saquon a RB worth $8m per season before his injury? Yes. Is Gettleman a time traveler that could predict an ACL tear?
Even without the ACL tear, he was a TERRIBLE pick at 2. How about Jones at 6? Is that another example of great drafting? Should we look past Round 1? Because it gets alot worse. His drafts have been unspeakably bad. He's bad at every aspect of being a GM. He's a loser.
The Giants had four guys performing at a high level in management from 2007 - 2011. Coughlin, Reese, Ross, and Gettleman all were humming.
For myriad reasons it fell apart, with some portion of responsibility landing on each of them.
This is how it goes. People who are once good at jobs, when faced with different circumstances don’t perform as well. Then they get replaced.
John Mara didn’t have the professional maturity and wisdom to replace everyone after the 2015 season, and the hopscotch of favorites, sentimentality, and ultimatums lands us where we are today.
1) OL - He came in touting Hog Mollies. He spent draft picks, signed FA, and made trades. This OL is not better and probably worse than when he came in. It has impacted, at least in part, items 2 and 3 below.
2) Barkley - I was in favor of this pick. That was under the assumption we would not have an historically bad OL. I don't know what he would have been with even an average OL. But, he has been behind a bottom 1 or 2 unit in the league and has come nowhere near to the franchise saving back touched by the hand of G-d to overcome this. Gettleman hitched his wagon to Eli returning with the addition of Barkley as enough. Reese and Gettleman both ruined more than a couple of years of the end of Eli's career.
3) Jones - A #2 pick and then a #6 pick the following year and this is what we have? Jones has talent. But, he is looking more and more like the huge reach that many thought he was at #6. We have what we thought was going to be the 2 cornerstone players of this franchise and we are no better than we were before Getlleman got here. In fact, we are literally the worst team over that span.
Pathetic.
1) I see some talking about letting Collins walk as a mistake. Really? He hasn't done very much for WFT and is no longer a starter.
2) As for Reese, he is in a unique situation of receiving both too little credit for the 2 SBs and at the same time too little blame for the end of his tenure here. I was a big Coughlin fan, but admitted then and now that it was time for him to go. However, at the time, I felt that should have meant Reese also. Even Mara said in the retirement press conference for Coughlin that the biggest issue with the team over the last few years of Coughlin's tenure was personnel. So, then how the Hell did the GM keep his job?
3) Related to #3, if Reese was going to stay, I feel Coughlin should have been the beneficiary of that infusion of $ to give him one last shot at a legitimate run. I'm not saying things would have turned out much different in 2016, but I would have liked to have found out. Plus, I felt McAdoo was a very good OC under Coughlin and his offense was completely different once elevated to HC.
4) I've said it in a few threads - Gettleman is so bad, I want him fired now so they can begin the search for his replacement in earnest. What exactly has he done to "earn" the right to ride out another shitty season for his fake retirement?
4) I've said it in a few threads - Gettleman is so bad, I want him fired now so they can begin the search for his replacement in earnest. What exactly has he done to "earn" the right to ride out another shitty season for his fake retirement?
Yep
Ownership needs to take true accountability here. We all take missteps at times.. this isn't a post to pour blame on the Mara and Tisch families but they need to truly take responsibility and hold themselves accountable.
Ownership is what led them down this road and ownership is the first step to get back on track.
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He comes off as a scumbag.
I said "might." I have no idea one way or the other.
You don't have to even know him personally to have seen his "Rome wasn't built in a day, dahlin'" nonsense.
He's an asshole.
1) I see some talking about letting Collins walk as a mistake. Really? He hasn't done very much for WFT and is no longer a starter.
2) As for Reese, he is in a unique situation of receiving both too little credit for the 2 SBs and at the same time too little blame for the end of his tenure here. I was a big Coughlin fan, but admitted then and now that it was time for him to go. However, at the time, I felt that should have meant Reese also. Even Mara said in the retirement press conference for Coughlin that the biggest issue with the team over the last few years of Coughlin's tenure was personnel. So, then how the Hell did the GM keep his job?
3) Related to #3, if Reese was going to stay, I feel Coughlin should have been the beneficiary of that infusion of $ to give him one last shot at a legitimate run. I'm not saying things would have turned out much different in 2016, but I would have liked to have found out. Plus, I felt McAdoo was a very good OC under Coughlin and his offense was completely different once elevated to HC.
4) I've said it in a few threads - Gettleman is so bad, I want him fired now so they can begin the search for his replacement in earnest. What exactly has he done to "earn" the right to ride out another shitty season for his fake retirement?
The one thing I'll say is that it's not going to be a "fake" retirement. He's going to be radioactive after this tenure. No team with a brain will hire him.