Stating the obvious, Dave Gettleman has been a disaster

what I read about his tenure in Carolina it is very debatable that he was a nice guy as well.

.

With this reality.

You can debate what authority he’s had, but it’s not debatable in my view the Giants need someone much better in the role.

Are we sure he's a nice man? He's made some sexist comments.

But he is a disaster. Thanks again EA for recommending him! Doing a solid for a long time pal! YAY!

..

He’s a Mara friend.

but I never expected him to be this awful. Just shows how quickly the league is changing - DG had a long, productive football life but the game passed him by.

Set this franchise back probably another 5 years.

was a bad GM his last several years. Gettleman has followed that path of consistency. Mistake after mistake with this franchise, minor and major mistakes.

.

He comes off as a scumbag.

since December 29, 2017.

The day Accorsi concluded the fakest GM search in team sports history.

incredible. They actually hired a GM who has been much worse than Reese and Ross. One of the first things Gettleman did of course was to fire Ross.

In comment 15481893 Go Terps said:

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He comes off as a scumbag.

I said "might." I have no idea one way or the other.

The Giants haven’t had strong general management since the moment Mara told Reese on TV to fix it or else.

In comment 15481896 AcidTest said:

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incredible. They actually hired a GM who has been much worse than Reese and Ross. One of the first things Gettleman did of course was to fire Ross.

Let's not romanticize Ross. He was atrocious too.

In comment 15481873 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Are we sure he's a nice man? He's made some sexist comments. But he is a disaster. Thanks again EA for recommending him! Doing a solid for a long time pal! YAY!

Sexist comments?!? Oh no! I don't care if he wins us a Super Bowl. Fire him now for those comments!

His winning percentage as GM has to be near the Mendoza Line.

No doubt about it.

In comment 15481893 Go Terps said:

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He comes off as a scumbag.

“Rome wasn’t built in a day darling”. Gettleman to Kim Jones

bumbling idiot.

That's a damning statement!

1. Didn’t fix the o-line
2. Drafted the wrong QB.
3. Drafted a RB at two
4. 2 couches in 4 years

It’s pretty much text book failure.

There was massive doubt for me with both of those picks at the time: one was a gross miscalculation of where our team was at and positional value (Barkley), and the other was a major reach by all accounts (Jones) because we were desperate to atone for the end of Eli's career.

I have the feeling we hire another lackey at GM that Mara is comfortable with. That lackey will accept being saddled with Judge and/or Jones where better qualified candidates would not.

Hired him?

Not sure if changed the furniture in his office that much but 2 coaches in 4 years is pretty bad as well.

is an embarrassment from management to players to a shitty new stadium. this is what it feels like to be a jets and lions fan

In comment 15481890 Anakim said:

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.

What a brutal post. Come Anak. Be better. It’s like so many here forgot Reese was the GM of 2 super bowl winning teams. Scott fucking Layden? Show some respect.

The place I had the most confidence in him. He could t build an adequate O-line.. I really feel this team would be at least decent if we were even close to abs on the offensive line, but we are not

and then to make the same mistake you did with Reese - allow him to spend all of your cap space in a "win or else" year - is pretty much malpractice.

We’ve had a lot of those in recent years.

Who we gonna blame next in 2-3 years?

I did agree with Gettleman that the team he inherited needed to be turned over. While there was some talent, they did need a fresh start with new players in the building. The problem is that when you turn over a whole team, you then need to hit on the draft and free agency at a better rate/adding good players and talent then what you had.

So we traded away players, did resign players and made changes. That is all good, but he did not upgrade the team.

Now I do think we have some talent on this team and that the defense has 2 pass rushers away from being very strong and playoff caliber.

The biggest reason that I liked the Gettleman hire was that I thought he would fix the oline. That has been an absolute failure.

I do think the offense has talent on it, but most NFL offenses have talent on it. If you do not have a strong oline, it often does not matter.

I understand the valid arguments against Barkley and Jones.

I actually still like Jones, but understand moving on from him.

I do not trust Gettleman making anymore decisions.

Get the right GM in here and fix the oline and add a pass rusher we will be a much different team. I think we roll with Jones next year--I know most will be upset. However, I am not seeing it with this years draft and I don't think we can trade away a lot of draft picks for a QB.

The "Giants Way"...

Is they aren’t even close. When you watch games around the league, the offenses look completely different. Then you watch the Giants and everything is bad- the QB play, blocking, running backs, and skill players dropping passes. It’s so frustrating. Disfunctional.


Some bad teams at least offer a good, somewhat exciting product on the offensive side. I definitely cannot say that about the Giants.

They have 5 premium picks next year but it feels like they’d need about 15 picks and a complete reboot of the coaching staff and FO to even field a competitive team.

Today’s game was unwatchable. The type of game that puts your fandom to the test. Not sure there is anything to even watch for at this point, besides hoping to find answers (Is Jones a competent starter moving forward, does Saquon still have it, and is Golladay the guy they thought he was when they gave him 72 mil)

the culmination is that he's totally ham-stringed the Giants

... and having to watch Glennon quarterback the team, especially behind this scrub line, is adding insult to injury

In comment 15481937 KDubbs said:

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is an embarrassment from management to players to a shitty new stadium. this is what it feels like to be a jets and lions fan

Yep, mediocrity throughout. Even their own fans would rather wear throwback gear because their current designs are blah and uninspiring... sort of like their stadium!

In comment 15481924 SirLoinOfBeef said:

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That's a damning statement!

Worse than Reese? Reese won two Super Bowls...he's Bill Walsh by comparison.

Dave Gettleman is like Ray Handley to the power of 10. A complete catastrophe.

The Giants would be better off starting as an expansion team with no players than they are right now.

in the past decade.

In comment 15481940 Sean said:

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In comment 15481890 Anakim said: Quote: . What a brutal post. Come Anak. Be better. It’s like so many here forgot Reese was the GM of 2 super bowl winning teams. Scott fucking Layden? Show some respect.

You're right. He accomplished more than Layden did because he did win two Super Bowls. But Reese was awful in every other season. Flowers and Eli Apple in the top-10? Are you fucking kidding me? There's a reason why Mr. 2 Super Bowls hasn't gotten a GM job since.

I believe many don’t accurately remember when and what Ross did for the Giants.

He was hired in 2007 and according to Reese ran the drafts from 2008 on.

The 2008, 2009, and 2010 drafts were good drafts and a lot of this players contributed to the 2011 championship.

No argument though that the last 2/3s of his tenure is murky. Lots of bad picks and players who only flourished after leaving NY.

I'd argue he's the worst hire in Giants history.

In comment 15481952 Breeze_94 said:

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Is they aren’t even close. When you watch games around the league, the offenses look completely different. Then you watch the Giants and everything is bad- the QB play, blocking, running backs, and skill players dropping passes. It’s so frustrating. Disfunctional. Some bad teams at least offer a good, somewhat exciting product on the offensive side. I definitely cannot say that about the Giants. They have 5 premium picks next year but it feels like they’d need about 15 picks and a complete reboot of the coaching staff and FO to even field a competitive team. Today’s game was unwatchable. The type of game that puts your fandom to the test. Not sure there is anything to even watch for at this point, besides hoping to find answers (Is Jones a competent starter moving forward, does Saquon still have it, and is Golladay the guy they thought he was when they gave him 72 mil)

And to make matters worst my gut is leaning towards no on all 3 of those questions

Now the Titanic, that was a disaster.

Looked a hell of a lot better with Shurmer, the defense was just trash. This is not a personnel issue but a coaching issue.

bad free agent signings. He’s set this franchise back a decade.

34th overall, 6th overall pick, 17th overall pick, 30th overall pick

All fucking stink

And no not a nice man. Actually a grade A prick from all accounts

This was obvious as soon as he opened his mouth. Whether it was his introductory presser or the one after the Barkley pick. Plain as day that the guy is a moron. Dumb, unbelievably arrogant, ignorant. Just listen to him try to string a sentence together.

In comment 15481876 Jerry in_DC said:

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..

Sshh. Remember folks on BBI think Reese kept us from winning 5 Superbowls.

In comment 15481964 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I'd argue he's the worst hire in Giants history.

At least Reese knew impact player talent when he saw it.

until Ross came around. That’s when we suddenly got soft and were drafting these herculean looking non football players too. Both deserve blame but be sunk Reese IMO.

Their picks complemented each other well. Reese on his own...not so much.

1) Hog mollies - This OL is no better than 4 years ago and may be worse.

2) Barkley - #2 pick in the draft who is essentially done here

3) Jones - #6 pick in the draft and no closer to knowing what we have in him.

Sadly, all 3 are linked together, but they are enough to summarize his 4 years here. And no more about giving him a chance to rebuild. There isn't a single player on the roster that was here before he got here. This is his fucking team. He built it 100%. He should be fired right now. He hasn't earned the right to "retire" after the season. The Giants need to start seriously searching for his replacement now.

And Abrams nor anyone else currently in the organization should even be considered for the job. Not a token interview. Nothing. Most, if not all of the scouting and personnel office should be gone. The new GM should have free reign.

In comment 15481962 Anakim said:

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You're right. He accomplished more than Layden did because he did win two Super Bowls. But Reese was awful in every other season. Flowers and Eli Apple in the top-10? Are you fucking kidding me? There's a reason why Mr. 2 Super Bowls hasn't gotten a GM job since.

The Giants didn’t have a losing season in Reese’s first six seasons as GM,

The back half of his tenure was bad, but the first 6 years was well executed.

Hired Judge..
And that's the disaster.
I don't think the talent is that bad.

We have to ask that question. He's the constant in the sucking, not Gettleman. Things have gotten worse with Gettleman, but this team sucked before Gettleman took over.

In comment 15482001 widmerseyebrow said:

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Their picks complemented each other well. Reese on his own...not so much.

Reese ran Accorsi’s drafts for several years before 2007, and was the lead college talent evaluator. He was a big part of Accorsi building that team.

Then do the complete opposite. He has failed building the O-line. The defensive front seven is also not very good. Can't wait till he's gone. I'm not very confident the Maras will hire a capable successor. Please no Abrams.

He has been a complete failure since day 1! Anyone that signs Glennon as their backup QB to a questionable Daniel Jones, is just looking to fail.. Period. Giants had a chance to pickup Minshew as much as the Eagles?! But yet the better Organization with a better GM did! you can see the results. Thought Minshew was a good QB, starter quality. To get him as a backup? Your winning! That's what good GM's and Org's do! Not the Giants... of course not! You hire an inept GM, and a horrible coaching staff in which the OC has already let go?? You are looking to fail. They have been making mistakes after mistakes!! Wasted tons of money on what?? They had an excellent Safety in McKinney and did nothing with him until someone got injured?? Heck they signed more DB's instead???!

Look at this years draft?? Ignored drafting 2 excellent Olinemen which are doing amazing and are starting for their teams, or a LB in Parsons?? Instead picked up a known injury prone WR in the draft, after already investing tons of money on another injury prone player in Galloday?!!!! Smdh??? The Owners have not done anything to help either. Their gutless, spineless, I'm to gentle & loyal to fire attitude has ruined this Franchise.. It's a mess. not worth rooting for right now.

Let's see how many clowns on this thread loved the signing.

In comment 15481962 Anakim said:

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Are you fucking kidding me? There's a reason why Mr. 2 Super Bowls hasn't gotten a GM job since.

There've been articles about this. This is from Garafolo.
https://www.nfl.com/news/former-giants-gm-jerry-reese-interviews-for-jaguars-vacant-gm-job-while-other-te

To find a worse GM than Reese. I shouldn’t have doubted Mara and Tisch

Posted on here a couple weeks ago. The problem is Chris Mara!!!

Gettleman is a symptom of a much larger underlying issues, which is that this organization is utterly lost in the modern NFL without the slightest understanding of how to get out of this tailspin. I expect Mara to go back to the good ol boys network with the next hire and that GM to be a disaster as well, unless a third party steps in.

All you need to know is when you pick a running back at 2 and follow that up by drafting a qb in the weakest class in some time after scouting him at an exhibition game, depicts how utterly broken the process is.

Start a go find me and put up billboards FIRE CHRIS MARA!!

Barkley pick wasn’t goi long to work out, Jones was picked too high and picking or signing skill players before the OL was fixed was not going to work out.

Point is, I’m not sure what Gettleman was thinking. If nothing else he’s been doing this stuff for a while. With all the high end picks he’s had he should have been able to put together a decent team throwing darts at a draft board.

In comment 15482089 afann said:

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Start a go find me and put up billboards FIRE CHRIS MARA!!

I still laugh out loud when folks think all will be right if we just fired Chris Mara.

In comment 15481903 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15481896 AcidTest said: Quote: incredible. They actually hired a GM who has been much worse than Reese and Ross. One of the first things Gettleman did of course was to fire Ross. Let's not romanticize Ross. He was atrocious too.

Agreed.

Gettleman has basically ruined two organizations with RB picks.

His parting gift in Carolina was picking CMC. Now that is falling apart.

And when he arrived here, Gettleman's first draft decision was taking SB, who means absolutely NOTHING to this offense right now. NOTHING.

...and arguably made only one good pick, Julian Love.

The 2018 and 2019 drafts have been catastrophically bad.

In comment 15481999 GiantTuff1 said:

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until Ross came around. That’s when we suddenly got soft and were drafting these herculean looking non football players too. Both deserve blame but be sunk Reese IMO.

I think this is mostly correct. Reese was good until Ross who was so bad he sunk everyone, Reese included.

In comment 15482109 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15482089 afann said: Quote: Start a go find me and put up billboards FIRE CHRIS MARA!! I still laugh out loud when folks think all will be right if we just fired Chris Mara.

We need to fire most, if not all of the scouting and personnel departments. It may sound harsh and may not be realistic, but they are beyond bad at this point. Look no further than OL with several tries in the draft, FA, and trade this OL may actually be worse than a decade ago. The only decent player right now, with Gates injured, is Thomas and it's hard to know how good because everyone around him is terrible. But, the bottom line is this group running our organization have no clue how to evaluate this position at the college or pro level. It seems the same can be said for LB. I just want a new GM from outside the organization with a clean slate here.

In comment 15482129 AcidTest said:

Quote:

In comment 15481999 GiantTuff1 said: Quote: until Ross came around. That’s when we suddenly got soft and were drafting these herculean looking non football players too. Both deserve blame but be sunk Reese IMO. I think this is mostly correct. Reese was good until Ross who was so bad he sunk everyone, Reese included.

You think Reese sunk in 2007?

In comment 15482074 lax counsel said:

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Gettleman is a symptom of a much larger underlying issues, which is that this organization is utterly lost in the modern NFL without the slightest understanding of how to get out of this tailspin. I expect Mara to go back to the good ol boys network with the next hire and that GM to be a disaster as well, unless a third party steps in. All you need to know is when you pick a running back at 2 and follow that up by drafting a qb in the weakest class in some time after scouting him at an exhibition game, depicts how utterly broken the process is.

Exactly. Agree.. They seem to hire their buddies instead of the right guy for the job.. The moves have all been disparate and rushed?! They could of waited till there was a good QB class to draft a QB, and in the meantime fortify the Oline and Dline! That was the key. This years draft was a perfect example of that. Draft the best Olinemen and go from there.. Build upon which is weak or lacking..

Maybe we won't be competitive for years to come.

In comment 15482140 christian said:

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In comment 15482129 AcidTest said: Quote: In comment 15481999 GiantTuff1 said: Quote: until Ross came around. That’s when we suddenly got soft and were drafting these herculean looking non football players too. Both deserve blame but be sunk Reese IMO. I think this is mostly correct. Reese was good until Ross who was so bad he sunk everyone, Reese included. You think Reese sunk in 2007?

I think Reese trusted Ross with the draft and that was a disastrous decision. Ross was hired in 2007. Our drafts got progressively worse after that happened, especially on day three.

Tisch step up and say he owns 50% of this and start a GM search from someone who is not from within the Giants family. We need another George Young, but not someone who thinks like George Young. Young forced the Giants to play up to the standards he learned in Baltimore and Miami and how the NFL changed, which were revolutionary under Shula back in the late 60s/70s. Now they need to do the same for someone else but for now how the game is played in the 2020s.

Gettleman is gone, that's easy. But you can't bring back Abrams either. He's got to go. And to be honest, if they hire Pioli, I think it's the same shit again. He was the guy they wanted in 2007 before Reese, and he said no to the interview. He's known by the Giants because he's been in the league forever and is Parcells' son in law.

Get a real search committee in here, not whoever Accorsi has on speed dial.

actually has shown competence both in running the scouting department under Accorsi and having 2 superbowls on his resume. Ross was a mess.

Nearly nothing Gettleman has done has panned out. Coaches, RB, QB, spotty free agency acquisitions . . .

Seems like an arrogant dick to me. As far as being a GM, yeah, he’s a fucking disaster.

In comment 15482188 AcidTest said:

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You think Reese sunk in 2007? I think Reese trusted Ross with the draft and that was a disastrous decision. Ross was hired in 2007. Our drafts got progressively worse after that happened, especially on day three.

The Giants didn’t have a personnel director for the 2007 draft, presumably Reese was heavily involved, and that was a great draft.

Reese was promoted to personnel director in 2004 I believe after the draft.

So Reese ran the 2005, 2006, and 2007 drafts.

I think Ross’s 2008, 2009, and 2010 stand up.

Worst GM since Andy Robustelli.

That DG needed time because Reese left us with a disaster of a roster. And now look what DG has gifted us in only his 4th/last year...cap hell and even less talent.

The debate of who was the better GM (Reese vs DG) isn't close. Sure, you can point out Eli Apple and Flowers...but you can also point to D.Baker and that ridiculous N.Solder contact for DG. In summary, Reese got us 2 chips, a ton of talent (2007 Draft, H.Nicks, T.Thomas, OBJ, JPP, K.Phillips, Manningham, Beatty, L.Joseph, Shep...), a few years of bad drafts, okay free agency, and Victor FUCKIN Cruz.

DG can't hold Reese's jock strap, IMHO. The 2021 Giants have nothing.

You know… in the name of stability.

Stable position as the worst team in the nfl.

It's pretty impressive how badly hes failed at multiple phases.

Bad draft picks
Bad premium free agents
Letting free agents walk who are productive elsewhere
Bad head coaches
Building teams around veteran QBs
Building teams around rookie QBs

You name it

In comment 15481924 SirLoinOfBeef said:

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That's a damning statement!

THIS .. best thing Gettleman did was to fire the useless Marc Ross.. the rest pfft

He failed at every turn.

Solder, Omameh, Hernandez, Zeitler, Peart.

Thomas looks to be a keeper but I've seen enough.

In comment 15482279 Gmen703 said:

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That DG needed time because Reese left us with a disaster of a roster. And now look what DG has gifted us in only his 4th/last year...cap hell and even less talent. The debate of who was the better GM (Reese vs DG) isn't close. Sure, you can point out Eli Apple and Flowers...but you can also point to D.Baker and that ridiculous N.Solder contact for DG. In summary, Reese got us 2 chips, a ton of talent (2007 Draft, H.Nicks, T.Thomas, OBJ, JPP, K.Phillips, Manningham, Beatty, L.Joseph, Shep...), a few years of bad drafts, okay free agency, and Victor FUCKIN Cruz. DG can't hold Reese's jock strap, IMHO. The 2021 Giants have nothing.

reese sucked too.. blew a shitload of drafts dont whitewash his fail Gettleman is more shitty

In comment 15482013 christian said:

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Reese ran Accorsi’s drafts for several years before 2007, and was the lead college talent evaluator. He was a big part of Accorsi building that team.

Diehl, Snee, O'Hara, Seubert, Mackenzie

Reese was not responsible for O'Hara and Kmac as free agents . TC obviously pounded the table for his future son-in-law.

Reese was a scout when Diehl and Seubert were drafted/signed. Did he grade them highly if at all? Possibly, but given how he drafted offensive linemen for 10 years I doubt it.

In comment 15482109 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 15482089 afann said: Quote: Start a go find me and put up billboards FIRE CHRIS MARA!! I still laugh out loud when folks think all will be right if we just fired Chris Mara.

He’s part of the problem. A doofus family member in a high level executive role can’t be a good thing when everyone at the top talks about decisions being “collaborative.”

In comment 15482482 Paulie Walnuts said:

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In comment 15482279 Gmen703 said: Quote: That DG needed time because Reese left us with a disaster of a roster. And now look what DG has gifted us in only his 4th/last year...cap hell and even less talent. The debate of who was the better GM (Reese vs DG) isn't close. Sure, you can point out Eli Apple and Flowers...but you can also point to D.Baker and that ridiculous N.Solder contact for DG. In summary, Reese got us 2 chips, a ton of talent (2007 Draft, H.Nicks, T.Thomas, OBJ, JPP, K.Phillips, Manningham, Beatty, L.Joseph, Shep...), a few years of bad drafts, okay free agency, and Victor FUCKIN Cruz. DG can't hold Reese's jock strap, IMHO. The 2021 Giants have nothing. reese sucked too.. blew a shitload of drafts dont whitewash his fail Gettleman is more shitty

Reese was rightfully canned (probably a few years too late). But shitty drafts were a little easier to digest with that 2011 championship.

Forget about finishing a season at .500 under DG, there's been no point DURING these past 4 seasons where the Giants have been .500 (or better). That means while DG has been the GM here, there was no point at any of these 4 seasons where the Giants were EVER .500. They never even reached 1-1, or 2-2, or 3-3, and so on. They've been perpetually under .500 during every of the past 4 seasons.

That's almost impossible to accomplish. But DG and the Giants did it!

.

saying Reese was better than Gettleman are like people saying Kent Graham was better than Danny Kanell.

The damage that Gettleman has done is fresher in the minds of fans, but Reese had horrific drafts that turned this team into a joke in just a few years. Go back and look at Reese's draft history from 2011 to 2017. Look at his free agents then too.

for Ray Handley, but I can't imagine Handley was worse as a coach than Gettleman was as a GM.

One of the worst GM's in NFL history

In comment 15481905 Regular Coffee said:

Quote:

In comment 15481873 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: Are we sure he's a nice man? He's made some sexist comments. But he is a disaster. Thanks again EA for recommending him! Doing a solid for a long time pal! YAY! Sexist comments?!? Oh no! I don't care if he wins us a Super Bowl. Fire him now for those comments!

If funny when idiots are idiots.

“It can always get worse.”

How? Hire a known Nazi, chomo for the next GM?

The difference is that Reese had a strong run as both personnel director and GM from 2004 - 2011 and was an integral part of an 8 year stretch where the Giants didn’t have a losing season.

It’s possible to separate the good stretch Reese had from the bad stretch. Mara should have fired Reese with Coughlin.

I can separate the nice job Gettleman did as the pro personnel director under Reese from the tragedy he’s become. He’s never had a day as a winning GM as the Giant, and I believe he’s had 1 week at .500.

In comment 15482728 Eric from BBI said:

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saying Reese was better than Gettleman are like people saying Kent Graham was better than Danny Kanell. The damage that Gettleman has done is fresher in the minds of fans, but Reese had horrific drafts that turned this team into a joke in just a few years. Go back and look at Reese's draft history from 2011 to 2017. Look at his free agents then too.

Reese drafted and signed key members of both Super Bowl teams. A Reese Gettleman comparison is like comparing Eli to Kanell.

In comment 15482728 Eric from BBI said:

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saying Reese was better than Gettleman are like people saying Kent Graham was better than Danny Kanell. The damage that Gettleman has done is fresher in the minds of fans, but Reese had horrific drafts that turned this team into a joke in just a few years. Go back and look at Reese's draft history from 2011 to 2017. Look at his free agents then too.

Word. I always got the sense that Reese got disinterested with the day-to-day of being a GM after the second super bowl. I remember an interview where he talked about his future as a high-up in the league office… so I have not doubt he delegated way too much to Ross and others, and hence, shit drafts and shit FAs.

jumping on the bandwagon. After years of arguing against it.

Ho hum...

In comment 15482728 Eric from BBI said:

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saying Reese was better than Gettleman are like people saying Kent Graham was better than Danny Kanell. The damage that Gettleman has done is fresher in the minds of fans, but Reese had horrific drafts that turned this team into a joke in just a few years. Go back and look at Reese's draft history from 2011 to 2017. Look at his free agents then too.

Reese won us a super bowl.

I defer to Eric, who is closer to the organization than any of us, but still… Dave Gettleman? A nice man? If so, he does a really good job of concealing it.

In comment 15482751 christian said:

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The difference is that Reese had a strong run as both personnel director and GM from 2004 - 2011 and was an integral part of an 8 year stretch where the Giants didn’t have a losing season. It’s possible to separate the good stretch Reese had from the bad stretch. Mara should have fired Reese with Coughlin. I can separate the nice job Gettleman did as the pro personnel director under Reese from the tragedy he’s become. He’s never had a day as a winning GM as the Giant, and I believe he’s had 1 week at .500.

2-2 in 2019. That was the high water mark.

In comment 15482789 Les in TO said:

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In comment 15482728 Eric from BBI said: Quote: saying Reese was better than Gettleman are like people saying Kent Graham was better than Danny Kanell. The damage that Gettleman has done is fresher in the minds of fans, but Reese had horrific drafts that turned this team into a joke in just a few years. Go back and look at Reese's draft history from 2011 to 2017. Look at his free agents then too. Reese drafted and signed key members of both Super Bowl teams. A Reese Gettleman comparison is like comparing Eli to Kanell.

Thank you! Folks like to glance over these facts. I would almost replace Kanell with Kyle Lauletta...b/c he's done jack shit.

According to both men, Reese called Coughlin and asked if it would be OK to draft Snee. At that point, Chris may have been less “Future Son-in-Law” and more “&sshole who knocked up Tom’s daughter.”

FWIW, I thought they were insane to draft Snee. I was right that it would become awkward, but I was about nine years off about the timing.

In comment 15481990 FStubbs said:

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In comment 15481876 Jerry in_DC said: Quote: .. Sshh. Remember folks on BBI think Reese kept us from winning 5 Superbowls.

Anyone who thinks we won 2 SBs BECAUSE of Reese? Is a fucking idiot. Reese and his buddy Ross started this fucking landslide.

I’d let him go tomorrow

It wasn’t just his draft, his trades, or his free agency, but also his own words

We knew how this would end, we just didn’t think it would take this long.

And you don't even have to believe that Reese was a good GM to see that - this 4 year span under Gettleman is one of the least successful runs as a GM you'll ever see in the NFL.

Find a GM out there, past or present, who failed to build a team that could even manage to reach a .500 record at any point in time while consistently hitting the roof of the salary cap - THAT'S who Gettleman should be compared to.

In comment 15482949 eclipz928 said:

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And you don't even have to believe that Reese was a good GM to see that - this 4 year span under Gettleman is one of the least successful runs as a GM you'll ever see in the NFL. Find a GM out there, past or present, who failed to build a team that could even manage to reach a .500 record at any point in time while consistently hitting the roof of the salary cap - THAT'S who Gettleman should be compared to.

They both suck ballz.

* let Landon Collins walk
* traded JPP for a 3rd round pick
* overpaid by a mile for Nate Solder
* in the middle of a losing season, traded for Williams who would be a free agent by end of season
* drafted Barkley and Hernandez when he could have drafted Allen and Nick Chubb
* drafted Toney and passed on Micah Parsons

This is just off the top of my head.

In comment 15483097 GeofromNJ said:

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* let Landon Collins walk * traded JPP for a 3rd round pick * overpaid by a mile for Nate Solder * in the middle of a losing season, traded for Williams who would be a free agent by end of season * drafted Barkley and Hernandez when he could have drafted Allen and Nick Chubb * drafted Toney and passed on Micah Parsons This is just off the top of my head.

The first two are just fine. Collins hasn't reached Pro Bowl level with the WFT and JPP needed a change of scenery.

It's Solder, Barkley, Jones, Williams, DeAndre Baker trade-up, host of bad OL signings and lack of OL drafting that have killed the team. Even McCoy for Glennon likely just cost the Giants a game.

and I'm not even sure he's a nice man.

In comment 15483103 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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In comment 15483097 GeofromNJ said: Quote: * let Landon Collins walk * traded JPP for a 3rd round pick * overpaid by a mile for Nate Solder * in the middle of a losing season, traded for Williams who would be a free agent by end of season * drafted Barkley and Hernandez when he could have drafted Allen and Nick Chubb * drafted Toney and passed on Micah Parsons This is just off the top of my head. The first two are just fine. Collins hasn't reached Pro Bowl level with the WFT and JPP needed a change of scenery. It's Solder, Barkley, Jones, Williams, DeAndre Baker trade-up, host of bad OL signings and lack of OL drafting that have killed the team. Even McCoy for Glennon likely just cost the Giants a game.

Agree, totally.

Collins still isn't worth the money DC paid him.

In comment 15483103 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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In comment 15483097 GeofromNJ said: Quote: * let Landon Collins walk * traded JPP for a 3rd round pick * overpaid by a mile for Nate Solder * in the middle of a losing season, traded for Williams who would be a free agent by end of season * drafted Barkley and Hernandez when he could have drafted Allen and Nick Chubb * drafted Toney and passed on Micah Parsons This is just off the top of my head. The first two are just fine. Collins hasn't reached Pro Bowl level with the WFT and JPP needed a change of scenery. It's Solder, Barkley, Jones, Williams, DeAndre Baker trade-up, host of bad OL signings and lack of OL drafting that have killed the team. Even McCoy for Glennon likely just cost the Giants a game.

Collins hasn't been replaced with equivalent talent, moreover DG never attempted to trade him. All due respect, saying JPP needed a change of scenery is just silly. He didn't retain his talent because he now plays in Tampa Bay.

In comment 15482930 V.I.G. said:

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It wasn’t just his draft, his trades, or his free agency, but also his own words We knew how this would end, we just didn’t think it would take this long.

I was highly skeptical when he was hired lol

In comment 15483103 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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In comment 15483097 GeofromNJ said: Quote: * let Landon Collins walk * traded JPP for a 3rd round pick * overpaid by a mile for Nate Solder * in the middle of a losing season, traded for Williams who would be a free agent by end of season * drafted Barkley and Hernandez when he could have drafted Allen and Nick Chubb * drafted Toney and passed on Micah Parsons This is just off the top of my head. The first two are just fine. Collins hasn't reached Pro Bowl level with the WFT and JPP needed a change of scenery. It's Solder, Barkley, Jones, Williams, DeAndre Baker trade-up, host of bad OL signings and lack of OL drafting that have killed the team. Even McCoy for Glennon likely just cost the Giants a game.

The whole sign & trade OBJ (salary cap be damned). Jonathan Stewart signing. Can't forget about Pio. And even this year, when the OL injuries hit hard early, he starts trading draft capital for backup OL. Someone change the locks to the office!

Because there were quite a few fans who had the knives out for him before he ever had a chance to fix the mess he inherited and he had to clear cap space and players before he could rebuild.

Well this is his team now… and it sucks… and the cap is a mess again. DG had his chance and failed.

The most egregious failure is that the OL is still not fixed - even though that was his stated goal. Even without the injuries the right side of the line would consist of Hernandez and Solder. Not good enough.

I also can not understand why we signed Shep to the deal he has and then restructured his contract multiple times despite his injury history. Ridiculous.

has reached Tiki levels of being unjustified. Under no measure, no circumstance, and any semblance of objective reality, has Reese been as bad as DG.

DG's run on the Giants is one of the worst runs by any GM in NFL history. That ISN'T hyperbole.

In comment 15482728 Eric from BBI said:

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saying Reese was better than Gettleman are like people saying Kent Graham was better than Danny Kanell. The damage that Gettleman has done is fresher in the minds of fans, but Reese had horrific drafts that turned this team into a joke in just a few years. Go back and look at Reese's draft history from 2011 to 2017. Look at his free agents then too.

Exactly. David Wilson, Eli Apple, Evan Engram, Erick Flowers. Not to mention some absurd midround picks. What saves him compared o Gettleman is that he didn't have to pick a QB, and had some successes like JPP, Nicks and Beckham.

Do people forget Reese drafted Nicks and JPP, critical pieces to the 2011 run?

Reese's tenure ended poorly but he had a pretty good first few years that led to a second Super Bowl win. And he also deserves credit for the 2007 team - that '07 draft was great.

Manningham, Terrell Thomas was pretty good until he got hurt.

In comment 15483381 BrettNYG10 said:

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Do people forget Reese drafted Nicks and JPP, critical pieces to the 2011 run? Reese's tenure ended poorly but he had a pretty good first few years that led to a second Super Bowl win. And he also deserves credit for the 2007 team - that '07 draft was great.

No I think many people (including me) have said he (and the Dept. in place for scouting with him) was very good at targeting and selecting specialized skill players. But the fact is the team deteriorated profoundly under his watch, with awful drafting especially around OL and overall team depth. He may or may not be better than Gettleman, but at this point that's not saying much.

In comment 15483479 Johnny5 said:

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In comment 15483381 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: Do people forget Reese drafted Nicks and JPP, critical pieces to the 2011 run? Reese's tenure ended poorly but he had a pretty good first few years that led to a second Super Bowl win. And he also deserves credit for the 2007 team - that '07 draft was great. No I think many people (including me) have said he (and the Dept. in place for scouting with him) was very good at targeting and selecting specialized skill players. But the fact is the team deteriorated profoundly under his watch, with awful drafting especially around OL and overall team depth. He may or may not be better than Gettleman, but at this point that's not saying much.

He is 100% better than Gettleman, it isn't even close. And for as bad as his Oline drafting was, he's still got a couple players he drafted starting and contributing in the league.

How much credit a gm should really get for draft selections if they are working from information they get from scouts. Quite a few fans take credit away from the GM Acorsi and give to Reese when he was director of pro personnel. Should Reese's hits in the draft be redirected towards others if Reese was working off their information.

was meant to be a question.

defending Reese right now are not living in the real world.

The foundation of the 2007-2011 teams were build with Accorsi as GM, Reese as Director of College Scouting, and Gettleman as the Pro Personnel man.

Once Reese became GM and appointed Ross as Director of College Scouting, the drafts destroyed the team. We're not talking about 1, 2, 3 drafts. We're talking about 6, 7, 8 bad drafts in a row.

is appalling. This is a guy who had major contributions to 2 Super Bowls. He was, in fact, the person in charge of 2 Super Bowl teams.

how we forget...
Jerry Reese Fired - ( New Window )

He had been GM for 4 years at that point and while the core might have started to rot...they had enough to win it all. Reese fully deserves blame for the mess that ensued. If you are comparing tenures as GM between Gettleman and Reese...it is not really even close.

but he also did a lot of great things for the franchise. (Or it was all Coughlin, Accorsi, input from Eli...sure)

In comment 15483531 AnnapolisMike said:

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He had been GM for 4 years at that point and while the core might have started to rot...they had enough to win it all. Reese fully deserves blame for the mess that ensued. If you are comparing tenures as GM between Gettleman and Reese...it is not really even close.

The 2011 was dead last or near dead last in defense and running the football. The OL was on its last legs. Eli, Nicks, and Cruz carried the Giants to the playoffs. The defense and running game then showed signs of life in the playoffs. The reason why the team fell apart so quickly is that he wasn't drafting well.

that Reese had a major role in where we are today is not unfair in the slightest. His drafts were horrific starting in 2011. When he was fired, we had a lot of bad contracts, a lot of bad attitudes, and a lot of bad players.

Now that doesnt take away what he did as a scout and as a GM til 2011. He should get credit for that.

But lets not act like he left Gettleman a gold mine when he was fired. that 2017 team was fucking abysmal and we had too many players making too much money and thats all on Ross and reese.

is failing to fix the OL. It compounds mistakes made elsewhere. And the drumbeat to replace Jones is a mistake prior to actually fixing the damn OL. Get the OL fixed and then find your QB.

In comment 15483539 AnnapolisMike said:

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is failing to fix the OL. It compounds mistakes made elsewhere. And the drumbeat to replace Jones is a mistake prior to actually fixing the damn OL. Get the OL fixed and then find your QB.

Gettleman's legacy will forever be tied to Barkley and Jones.

But the most painfully comical aspect of his tenure here was his inability to fix the OL that he claimed he would fix.

Pointing out Reese did a lot well early in his tenure doesn't mean we are defending his last few years. He deserved to go but he had a good run for a few years that helped the team win two Super Bowls. Reese also cut Petitgout and put Diehl at LT, a fairly controversial move at the time.

That 2011 team was enormously top-heavy, but he drafted those star players. We don't win the 2011 Super Bowl without JPP or Nicks.

Reese is worlds better than the obese buffoon we currently have.

In comment 15483515 Eric from BBI said:

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defending Reese right now are not living in the real world. The foundation of the 2007-2011 teams were build with Accorsi as GM, Reese as Director of College Scouting, and Gettleman as the Pro Personnel man. Once Reese became GM and appointed Ross as Director of College Scouting, the drafts destroyed the team. We're not talking about 1, 2, 3 drafts. We're talking about 6, 7, 8 bad drafts in a row.

If we thought Ross was bad as Director of College Scouting, Louis Riddick will be that on steroids as GM. Neither have any idea how teams are built and rely on height/weight/speed/tools and not whether they have a toolbox or can actually play at the next level.

In comment 15483547 BrettNYG10 said:

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That 2011 team was enormously top-heavy, but he drafted those star players. We don't win the 2011 Super Bowl without JPP or Nicks.

Didnt the Jets draft Cruz?

- Greg Buttle

In comment 15483534 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15483531 AnnapolisMike said: Quote: He had been GM for 4 years at that point and while the core might have started to rot...they had enough to win it all. Reese fully deserves blame for the mess that ensued. If you are comparing tenures as GM between Gettleman and Reese...it is not really even close. The 2011 was dead last or near dead last in defense and running the football. The OL was on its last legs. Eli, Nicks, and Cruz carried the Giants to the playoffs. The defense and running game then showed signs of life in the playoffs. The reason why the team fell apart so quickly is that he wasn't drafting well.

All relevant statements...the core was rotting. But when it mattered they had the players on the roster who stepped up. I do not think anyone is saying Reese was a good GM or did not deserve to get fired. Gettleman has been GM for 4 years and no one is defending him based on what happened 4 years ago. Reese's roster won a Super Bowl 4 years into his tenure yet we don't give him credit for that?

and badly needed to 1) find better coaching, 2) turnover a starting QB, 3) rebuild an Offensive Line, 4) put some more impactful players on Defense, and 5) build a winning culture.

Picking at the top of the Draft every year, maxing out the cap every year, and spending above his means on the cap that it caused contracts to be restructured every year, these are the results from Gettleman's time:

5-11 season
4-12 season
6-10 season
5-12 season (estimated)

Ironically, 4 years later we are left today with a team that needs better coaching, will need to turnover their starting QB, rebuild an OL, find more impactful players on Defense, and build a winning culture.

well done Dave...

In comment 15483541 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15483539 AnnapolisMike said: Quote: is failing to fix the OL. It compounds mistakes made elsewhere. And the drumbeat to replace Jones is a mistake prior to actually fixing the damn OL. Get the OL fixed and then find your QB. Gettleman's legacy will forever be tied to Barkley and Jones. But the most painfully comical aspect of his tenure here was his inability to fix the OL that he claimed he would fix.

Would you agree that Barkley and Jones might have been negatively impacted by the shitty OL? We don't know the future, but both Barkley and Jones could go on to long NFL careers. They might not be stars, but I can see a scenario where they are important cogs in some team. Should players careers in the end be evaluated based on draft position or what they did over the spanse of their career?

and really has been since booting Coughlin. Ross' influence on the draft bled the talent to death, and they still haven't recovered at the management levels. Coughlin was really the best football guy they had, but since he was removed the verdict has been clear. If I can see it from my armchair, when will NYG leadership get in front of this and figure it out.

Clean. House.

In comment 15483541 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15483539 AnnapolisMike said: Quote: is failing to fix the OL. It compounds mistakes made elsewhere. And the drumbeat to replace Jones is a mistake prior to actually fixing the damn OL. Get the OL fixed and then find your QB. Gettleman's legacy will forever be tied to Barkley and Jones. But the most painfully comical aspect of his tenure here was his inability to fix the OL that he claimed he would fix.

I think Jones and Barkley would have been fine if it wasn't for the utter, total disaster of a failure to fix the line - that and some dreadfully awful FA signings, i.e., Stewart, Solder, over paying for others like Jackson and Golladay.

...and Abrams too for not talking DG out of some of these signings.

Because he's thoroughly mediocre at best. Other QBs also suffer from poor OLs but manage to produce more that Jones does.

He was mediocre in high school, which is why he ended up walking on at Duke. He never particularly stood out at Duke, either. Now he's stinking it up in the pros. Face it, the guy just isn't all that good.

The Giants drafted perfectly fine between 2007-2010 — saying otherwise is a bit revisionist.

JPP, Joseph, Nicks, Beatty, Phillips, Thomas, Manningham, Ross, Smith, Boss, DeOssie, and Bradhshaw were all competent NFL players.

Landing 12 legit players who contributed to winning teams over a 4 year draft period is a good clip.

Reese had a very competent front half, and a very incompetent back half tenure as the GM.

And yet somehow, even as poorly as the team was constructed from 2013-2017 — those teams were a notch better than anything Gettleman has put on the field.

In comment 15483661 Greg from LI said:

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Because he's thoroughly mediocre at best. Other QBs also suffer from poor OLs but manage to produce more that Jones does. He was mediocre in high school, which is why he ended up walking on at Duke. He never particularly stood out at Duke, either. Now he's stinking it up in the pros. Face it, the guy just isn't all that good.

Are there worse QBs than DJ? Yeah. But like Goff, unless the situation around him is right AND everything breaks his/the teams way , he's not going to get very far in the playoffs, if ge gets there at all

I was deep in the NYG rabbit hole of thought--just going over the last 3-4-5 years and how everything has unfolded, it's impossible to NOT look back on the DG regime without serious disdain, anger and cynicism at so many moves he made. Forget the wins and losses and advantages hindsight affords us, whether you want to look at some of the moves in a vacuum or not, the Daniel Jones pick is so ridiculously NYG it's practically unbelievable. The decision to hire Pat Shurmur as HC, the same Shurmur who failed miserably in Cleveland. So many moves that just looked so bad at the time only to be even worse.

Even the fucking BArkley pick, one I have defended as recently as last night right here, and I don't question the talent like some, but the team was so BAD and so thin along the OL and the QB was old....


Sorry I even entertained the notion of defending these moves. I defended Dave Brown somewhat as well, prior to 1997. I thought I learned a lot of lessons over the years watching this franchise succeed and fail but I guess my heart and fandom wanted to feel some hope even in the face of certain doom.

You take a RB at 2-3-4-5 when you have a ready made OL in place. Not in 2018 when Nate Solder is your best lineman.

Not that it matters. We could have taken any other great player at 2 and we'd still be a hot mess today. BUT...and this is a big one, if they just forced a QB then they don't take Jones one year later and maybe the QB they did take at 2 was the right one. Even allowing for the choice of Darnold, Rosen, Allen and Jackon, maybe they pick Allen...

No way in hell this franchise takes allen or jackson though, who the hell we kidding...


whatever, fans don't need to always be right, the GM and HC does. And the fact that I have considered better moves than DG has pulled off here speaks volumes.

I am terrified of what we do next.

In comment 15483676 christian said:

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The Giants drafted perfectly fine between 2007-2010 — saying otherwise is a bit revisionist. JPP, Joseph, Nicks, Beatty, Phillips, Thomas, Manningham, Ross, Smith, Boss, DeOssie, and Bradhshaw were all competent NFL players. Landing 12 legit players who contributed to winning teams over a 4 year draft period is a good clip. Reese had a very competent front half, and a very incompetent back half tenure as the GM. And yet somehow, even as poorly as the team was constructed from 2013-2017 — those teams were a notch better than anything Gettleman has put on the field.

Reese's later drafts were pretty bad, but he also drafted a whole bunch of very good players whose careers were either prematurely ended or severely degraded due to major injuries.

Nicks, Cruz, Phillips & Wilson all had injuries derail their careers. I think people forget just how good Nicks was.

Another thing to point out with Reese: Pugh & Flowers have since flourished elsewhere. JPP is still a cog in Tampa.

I find it insulting when people compare Gettleman to Reese. You can’t just ignore the first half of his tenure.

In comment 15483661 Greg from LI said:

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Because he's thoroughly mediocre at best. Other QBs also suffer from poor OLs but manage to produce more that Jones does. He was mediocre in high school, which is why he ended up walking on at Duke. He never particularly stood out at Duke, either. Now he's stinking it up in the pros. Face it, the guy just isn't all that good.

He never would have been Rodgers or Mahomes. My fine is at worst average. He was pretty damn good his 1st year except for the fumbles. So what changed? He improved his turnovers but his game got worse. Why did that happen except that they changed coaching staffs.
I think he is toast here and was never as good as DG thought, but Shurmur sure did a good job with him. So yeah, given a good line I think he would have been good enough.

from Reese through today every time we draft a player that turns into a good or great offensive talent in the NFL, every single time, that player falls apart physically. Some guys take longer than others...but the list is downright horrifying. Let's start with the guys who actually lasted 2-3 years --yippee:

Nicks
Cruz
Manningham
^^these guys were no older than 25. It was early 2012. These were "made" guys who could talk the talk with any WR group in the NFL. They were bad ass. They were talented. They were explosive and consistent. And they were world champions. By the time those thoughts sunk in, they were hurt, or worse. The run lasted 2 years. 2 years and it was completely over before they were over the age of 26.

Next up is the guys that didn't even last that long:
David Wilson
Justin Pugh
Richburg
Odell Beckham*
^^Beckham was the mega star while the former 3 were ok players but once again we got NOTHING out these guys after 2-3 years. Pugh is still playing and playing well but his injury history in NY all but forced NYG to move on. Wilson and Richburg should have at least been average players who could hold the fort for a few years but nope.

The jinx is over? Nope:

Shepard
Barkley
Thomas
Gates
Toney
^^some of these are still too early to proclaim just yet, but early returns look ohhh so familiar. Toney shows huge talent and misses virtually THE ENTIRE SEASON. BArkley is all pro after year one only to virtually disappear ever since. Shepard is just lovely--doesn't miss a game in year 1 now can't go a month without missing the following month. In any other universe Shepard looks more like Cooper Kupp
after 4-5 seasons but not here. Things don't grow here. They die. Time and time again. Andrew Thomas and Gates are next on the hit list. I'll believe in either guy long term when I see it. We are fucking jinxed.

I won't list Daniel Jones because I don't think the injuries have caused his play to slip as much as the others I listed.

We suck..fair and square, but we are fucking jinxed.

In comment 15483632 JonC said:

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and really has been since booting Coughlin. Ross' influence on the draft bled the talent to death, and they still haven't recovered at the management levels. Coughlin was really the best football guy they had, but since he was removed the verdict has been clear. If I can see it from my armchair, when will NYG leadership get in front of this and figure it out. Clean. House.

No shit. And Svengali the GM managed to hypnotize the dopey owners that it was all the OC's and HC's fault.

Speaking of which- where is the movie impresario? He had a lot to say about the situation you mention but has been silent on the debacle taking place right now.

and it's been broken down here, is their decisions also tend to layer the hires so they're able to have patsies in place when things go sour. This is how family members can shield themselves from scrutiny.

not sure I care either.

The big money free agent signings of Golladay and Solder are what hurt this team the most. If you miss on draft picks, they're not making enough money on a rookie deal to truly hurt the team. The thing that matters the most is getting value for your cap dollars, whether that's through free agency or the draft.

by not placing a coherent OL in front of them, when promising to do so

In comment 15483938 giantBCP said:

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The big money free agent signings of Golladay and Solder are what hurt this team the most. If you miss on draft picks, they're not making enough money on a rookie deal to truly hurt the team. The thing that matters the most is getting value for your cap dollars, whether that's through free agency or the draft.

He's drafted well. Yep. Well enough to have the worst record in the NFL during his tenure here.

He's drafted well alright.

In comment 15483938 giantBCP said:

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The big money free agent signings of Golladay and Solder are what hurt this team the most. If you miss on draft picks, they're not making enough money on a rookie deal to truly hurt the team. The thing that matters the most is getting value for your cap dollars, whether that's through free agency or the draft.

He has not drafted well.

In comment 15483515 Eric from BBI said:

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defending Reese right now are not living in the real world. The foundation of the 2007-2011 teams were build with Accorsi as GM, Reese as Director of College Scouting, and Gettleman as the Pro Personnel man. Once Reese became GM and appointed Ross as Director of College Scouting, the drafts destroyed the team. We're not talking about 1, 2, 3 drafts. We're talking about 6, 7, 8 bad drafts in a row.

Reese's big mistake was not rebuilding the OL immediately after the 2011 Super Bowl win and assuming that they could stand up for another run in 2012. Once he was forced to rebuild the OL, he drafted the wrong players

right now. 33.

Guy hasn't played football in forever. 6 months older than Antonio Brown. 1 year older than Julio Jones.

during his tenure because he hasn't gotten value out of his big money free agent signings and has let good players walk in free agency.

Draft slot of a player might as well be an arbitrary number. Was Saquon a RB worth $8m per season before his injury? Yes. Is Gettleman a time traveler that could predict an ACL tear?

In comment 15483974 giantBCP said:

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during his tenure because he hasn't gotten value out of his big money free agent signings and has let good players walk in free agency. Draft slot of a player might as well be an arbitrary number. Was Saquon a RB worth $8m per season before his injury? Yes. Is Gettleman a time traveler that could predict an ACL tear?

Even without the ACL tear, he was a TERRIBLE pick at 2. How about Jones at 6? Is that another example of great drafting? Should we look past Round 1? Because it gets alot worse. His drafts have been unspeakably bad. He's bad at every aspect of being a GM. He's a loser.

Too much oversimplification on what makes a well ran, complex system like a football team.

The Giants had four guys performing at a high level in management from 2007 - 2011. Coughlin, Reese, Ross, and Gettleman all were humming.

For myriad reasons it fell apart, with some portion of responsibility landing on each of them.

This is how it goes. People who are once good at jobs, when faced with different circumstances don’t perform as well. Then they get replaced.

John Mara didn’t have the professional maturity and wisdom to replace everyone after the 2015 season, and the hopscotch of favorites, sentimentality, and ultimatums lands us where we are today.

and all three are linked together.

1) OL - He came in touting Hog Mollies. He spent draft picks, signed FA, and made trades. This OL is not better and probably worse than when he came in. It has impacted, at least in part, items 2 and 3 below.

2) Barkley - I was in favor of this pick. That was under the assumption we would not have an historically bad OL. I don't know what he would have been with even an average OL. But, he has been behind a bottom 1 or 2 unit in the league and has come nowhere near to the franchise saving back touched by the hand of G-d to overcome this. Gettleman hitched his wagon to Eli returning with the addition of Barkley as enough. Reese and Gettleman both ruined more than a couple of years of the end of Eli's career.

3) Jones - A #2 pick and then a #6 pick the following year and this is what we have? Jones has talent. But, he is looking more and more like the huge reach that many thought he was at #6. We have what we thought was going to be the 2 cornerstone players of this franchise and we are no better than we were before Getlleman got here. In fact, we are literally the worst team over that span.

Pathetic.

In addition to above:

1) I see some talking about letting Collins walk as a mistake. Really? He hasn't done very much for WFT and is no longer a starter.

2) As for Reese, he is in a unique situation of receiving both too little credit for the 2 SBs and at the same time too little blame for the end of his tenure here. I was a big Coughlin fan, but admitted then and now that it was time for him to go. However, at the time, I felt that should have meant Reese also. Even Mara said in the retirement press conference for Coughlin that the biggest issue with the team over the last few years of Coughlin's tenure was personnel. So, then how the Hell did the GM keep his job?

3) Related to #3, if Reese was going to stay, I feel Coughlin should have been the beneficiary of that infusion of $ to give him one last shot at a legitimate run. I'm not saying things would have turned out much different in 2016, but I would have liked to have found out. Plus, I felt McAdoo was a very good OC under Coughlin and his offense was completely different once elevated to HC.

4) I've said it in a few threads - Gettleman is so bad, I want him fired now so they can begin the search for his replacement in earnest. What exactly has he done to "earn" the right to ride out another shitty season for his fake retirement?

In comment 15484303 Matt M. said:

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4) I've said it in a few threads - Gettleman is so bad, I want him fired now so they can begin the search for his replacement in earnest. What exactly has he done to "earn" the right to ride out another shitty season for his fake retirement?

Yep

Gettleman has been a disaster but this predates Dave and goes above him. Ownership needs to take a deeper look. Key organizational hires, as well as coaching and player evaluations, have been subpar and that's putting it nicely.

Ownership needs to take true accountability here. We all take missteps at times.. this isn't a post to pour blame on the Mara and Tisch families but they need to truly take responsibility and hold themselves accountable.

Ownership is what led them down this road and ownership is the first step to get back on track.

In comment 15481898 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15481893 Go Terps said: Quote: He comes off as a scumbag. I said "might." I have no idea one way or the other.

You don't have to even know him personally to have seen his "Rome wasn't built in a day, dahlin'" nonsense.

He's an asshole.

In comment 15484303 Matt M. said:

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In addition to above: 1) I see some talking about letting Collins walk as a mistake. Really? He hasn't done very much for WFT and is no longer a starter. 2) As for Reese, he is in a unique situation of receiving both too little credit for the 2 SBs and at the same time too little blame for the end of his tenure here. I was a big Coughlin fan, but admitted then and now that it was time for him to go. However, at the time, I felt that should have meant Reese also. Even Mara said in the retirement press conference for Coughlin that the biggest issue with the team over the last few years of Coughlin's tenure was personnel. So, then how the Hell did the GM keep his job? 3) Related to #3, if Reese was going to stay, I feel Coughlin should have been the beneficiary of that infusion of $ to give him one last shot at a legitimate run. I'm not saying things would have turned out much different in 2016, but I would have liked to have found out. Plus, I felt McAdoo was a very good OC under Coughlin and his offense was completely different once elevated to HC. 4) I've said it in a few threads - Gettleman is so bad, I want him fired now so they can begin the search for his replacement in earnest. What exactly has he done to "earn" the right to ride out another shitty season for his fake retirement?

The one thing I'll say is that it's not going to be a "fake" retirement. He's going to be radioactive after this tenure. No team with a brain will hire him.