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The QB you all want is not in this draft. He will be in ‘23

Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2021 8:56 pm
I get it, I really do. We want the franchise guy, we had Eli, we want the savior pronto. Problem is, he’s not here. All these guys, Corral, Pickett, Ridder, Strong, you watch them and you’ re like, “ehhhh”. You have to make up why they might be great.

But we’re so desperate we want to just reach into the unknown. Hoping that this guy will be the guy. When it’s just another failed shot in the dark.

The guy, when you watch and you know is Bryce Young. He is the legitimate modern day QB.

The Giants need to focus this year into landing him next year. Salary dump a bunch of people. Play Fromm or Glennon all year long. You really want the guy? Well I’ve seen him and he’s a year away. Everything else is just wasting time.
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Why can't we draft a QB this year?  
bw in dc : 12/5/2021 8:59 pm : link
And if it doesn't work out, look at the 2023 pool?

We need to start thinking outside the box. Had we done that, Jones would have been replaced last year.
RE: Why can't we draft a QB this year?  
JaxGiant : 12/5/2021 9:02 pm : link
In comment 15482899 bw in dc said:
Quote:
And if it doesn't work out, look at the 2023 pool?

We need to start thinking outside the box. Had we done that, Jones would have been replaced last year.


You don't want to force a pick and waste a draft pick on QB that you won't have around. Think Davis Webb and the other guy from Richmond. 3rd and 4th rounders that would have been better spent on position players. Grant it, whoever they chose probably would have been busts too.
Drafting a QB in this draft doesn't keep them from drafting Young  
Go Terps : 12/5/2021 9:02 pm : link
.
The Colts went that route ten years ago.  
Big Blue Blogger : 12/5/2021 9:02 pm : link
Worked OK, for a while. Ironically, the events were touched off by a spinal injury to their QB. (No, not comparing Jones to Peyton Manning.)

I wonder what Curtis Painter is doing these days.
This "forcing a QB pick" talk is getting out of hand  
Go Terps : 12/5/2021 9:03 pm : link
.
I love the “don’t force a QB talk”  
Sean : 12/5/2021 9:04 pm : link
Yet every other post talks avoid forcing OL or EDGE. The Giants don’t have a good enough QB. It should not be dismissed, and it doesn’t have to be the 1st round either.
I agree  
Lines of Scrimmage : 12/5/2021 9:10 pm : link
There are a couple I like . Most important thing is having a strong team when you draft one. Draft well. BPA. Right coach. QB. In that order. Then you have a legitimate chance on a rookie contract.

The quick fixes. The stat guys. The magical offense. Just a bunch a propaganda.

Big, strong, athletic football players win the physical battle. The QB needs to be someone that compliments that with the it factor.
I think other  
Jersey Heel : 12/5/2021 9:11 pm : link
Teams besides the Giants are on to the fact that Young is a good quarterback. Only way to get him is to be the worst team in the league. No offense, but I’d rather not.
It’s more about hitting on the picks in the first three rounds  
RCPhoenix : 12/5/2021 9:12 pm : link
And less about getting the perfect QB.

And in the DG years, they missed on Barkley, Jones, Baker, Hernandez, Carter , Ximines. You cannot waste draft capital like that and expect to be competitive
And perhaps Toney  
RCPhoenix : 12/5/2021 9:13 pm : link
If he cannot stay healthy
Young is certainly impressive, but he's quite lean  
Anakim : 12/5/2021 9:15 pm : link
6' and what? 190 lbs soaking wet?

CJ Stroud of Ohio State is another one. And I'm curious to see where Quinn Ewers ends up
No one thought Allen or Mac Jones would be anything.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/5/2021 9:16 pm : link
No one had brilliant expectations for Herbert to make an immediate impact. He does.

If you sit around waiting for a "franchise guy" to fall in your lap, as a Giants fan, you're going to die of old age because you don't want to be bad enough to get a #1 overall pick. Few people here have the stomach for it.
I’d focus on building the ol and the dL.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2021 9:23 pm : link
Giants are in cap hell so they will not be able to spend. I’d try to trade players like Barkley, Jones and any high priced players we can. Purge the roster. It will be painful as rookies and journeyman play. But this is a complete tear down. And the benefit of the tear down is they can get the top pick.
If Young can come in with two good tackles, Thomas and a draft pick  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2021 9:24 pm : link
That’s the start of the era.
RE: No one thought Allen or Mac Jones would be anything.  
barens : 12/5/2021 9:25 pm : link
In comment 15482927 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
No one had brilliant expectations for Herbert to make an immediate impact. He does.

If you sit around waiting for a "franchise guy" to fall in your lap, as a Giants fan, you're going to die of old age because you don't want to be bad enough to get a #1 overall pick. Few people here have the stomach for it.


No one?
Get real: we're not drafting back-to-back 1st round QBs  
widmerseyebrow : 12/5/2021 9:25 pm : link
1. Mara would never allow it. No need to apply any further logic but for fun:
2. One year isn't enough time to evaluate.
3. We have an empty cupboard of a roster. Blowing our 1st rounder every year to stockpile QBs isn't practical.

Let's just draft whoever the next (hopefully qualified) GM thinks is good enough if he's available. No need to repeat the Daniel Jones mistake. We have plenty of other holes to fill.
Also fire dg, judge, actually everyone.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2021 9:26 pm : link
Start with a new gm and do not handcuff him with judge.
Maybe maybe not,  
ajr2456 : 12/5/2021 9:26 pm : link
You don’t know for sure til he’s in the NFL.

What if Corrall turns out to be a stud and Young is a bust? If you like one of the QBs this year take him. Doesn’t stop you from taking Young next year, see the Cardinals
RE: No one thought Allen or Mac Jones would be anything.  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 12/5/2021 9:26 pm : link
In comment 15482927 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
No one had brilliant expectations for Herbert to make an immediate impact. He does.

If you sit around waiting for a "franchise guy" to fall in your lap, as a Giants fan, you're going to die of old age because you don't want to be bad enough to get a #1 overall pick. Few people here have the stomach for it.


Apologies, but a number of people thought Allen would be a monster and Mac Jones was the most pro-ready QB in that draft.
RE: Young is certainly impressive, but he's quite lean  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2021 9:28 pm : link
In comment 15482925 Anakim said:
Quote:
6' and what? 190 lbs soaking wet?

CJ Stroud of Ohio State is another one. And I'm curious to see where Quinn Ewers ends up


I just don’t think stroud is in young’s class.
And I will say it for the record  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 12/5/2021 9:28 pm : link
right now: Bryce Young ain't it.
I say take a QB with every pick...  
rnargi : 12/5/2021 9:29 pm : link
...one's gotta hit, amirite?
I agree that it’s smart not to reach  
uconn18 : 12/5/2021 9:30 pm : link
On a QB. But I think there’s too much hype about the year that the franchise guy is there. A lot of the hyped years turn out to be a let down.
Mayfield Darnell Rosen Allen comes to mind (only Allen was worth it).
RE: I say take a QB with every pick...  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2021 9:31 pm : link
In comment 15482950 rnargi said:
Quote:
...one's gotta hit, amirite?


Innovative and out of the box. Imagine that really happened? Giants have selected 9 qbs!
The problem with drafting a QB this year,  
BigBlueNH : 12/5/2021 9:31 pm : link
assuming you agree this is a weak class, is the opportunity cost. This team needs players - lots of them. Using a high pick on a QB who won't play next year and may never play means passing on improving another position.

It's not as simple as saying: draft a QB this year and, if you're not sold on him after a year, draft another one next year.
Build the foundation  
Bill in UT : 12/5/2021 9:31 pm : link
before you build the fancy dream house
RE: The problem with drafting a QB this year,  
ajr2456 : 12/5/2021 9:32 pm : link
In comment 15482955 BigBlueNH said:
Quote:
assuming you agree this is a weak class, is the opportunity cost. This team needs players - lots of them. Using a high pick on a QB who won't play next year and may never play means passing on improving another position.

It's not as simple as saying: draft a QB this year and, if you're not sold on him after a year, draft another one next year.


Who said he won’t play next year? I doubt they’d play Jones over a 1st round pick
You also want to be wary of the scholarship syndrome  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2021 9:34 pm : link
As Terps likes to say. He showed us something, let’s roll with him next year. Path to disaster, let’s get our guy.
RE: Build the foundation  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2021 9:35 pm : link
In comment 15482959 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
before you build the fancy dream house


Agreed bill. And remove the clutter like Barkley for draft capital.
RE: And I will say it for the record  
bw in dc : 12/5/2021 9:37 pm : link
In comment 15482947 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
right now: Bryce Young ain't it.


I tend to agree. Nice college QB. Not sold on him as a lottery pick.

Stroud is a better prospect. That's why Quinn Ewers, an excellent QB prospect, is leaving OSU for the transfer portal.
We cannot get distracted by shiny things...  
EricJ : 12/5/2021 9:42 pm : link
and need to focus on building the trenches. We see teams like Baltimore who have a solid OL to the point where it does not matter which RB they use. THAT is what we need to aspire to achieve.

Then, we need to control the line of scrimmage on defense. Stop the run and rush the passer.

MOST of our moves for the next two years should be focused in these two areas.
Unless Fromm materializes into something,  
Go Terps : 12/5/2021 9:42 pm : link
the Giants don't have a quarterback. Drafting one should absolutely be in play.

And three "build the lines first" talk is nonsense. Football doesn't work that way. You don't just complete one area and move to the next.
RE: Unless Fromm materializes into something,  
Angel Eyes : 12/5/2021 9:45 pm : link
In comment 15482978 Go Terps said:
Quote:
the Giants don't have a quarterback. Drafting one should absolutely be in play.

And three "build the lines first" talk is nonsense. Football doesn't work that way. You don't just complete one area and move to the next.

Who are you, Gettleman?
It doesn’t have to be Young  
Lines of Scrimmage : 12/5/2021 9:46 pm : link
That kid has it though. Size is a concern. He had everything else.

The reality is you aren’t going to draft a elite QB. You want someone that can finish when the team around him is real good. Biggest mistake most make is thinking the QB fixes all. So common nowadays.
If you think this is a weak QB class,  
BigBlueNH : 12/5/2021 9:49 pm : link
as I do, then there isn't anybody worth taking in the first round who will step right in and be better than Jones.

Obviously, if you think it's a good class and there's someone worth taking in the top 10, then ya, that person might play over Jones in year 1.
RE: RE: Unless Fromm materializes into something,  
Angel Eyes : 12/5/2021 9:50 pm : link
In comment 15482980 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15482978 Go Terps said:


Quote:


the Giants don't have a quarterback. Drafting one should absolutely be in play.

And three "build the lines first" talk is nonsense. Football doesn't work that way. You don't just complete one area and move to the next.


Who are you, Gettleman? It's really apparent that you have a little more confident in our offensive linemen than most of us do (paraphrase). And you're happy with the group we have.
Yes !!!!!!  
Archer : 12/5/2021 9:50 pm : link
Yes I think that the Giants should draft 5 QBs this year
See which ones work out and then draft another 2 in 2023
And in the interim the Giants can trade for Wilson and pick up a couple of free agent qbs.

If this works the Giants can play them at multiple positions.
Fatten a couple up for th OL, then convert a couple to play DL, Edge and Linebacker.

But, make certain that Jones is discarded or maybe he can play TE.




Build the lines  
hassan : 12/5/2021 9:56 pm : link
Implies its more important than a QB its not. In fact, its harder to get a good QB. Lines are important of course, but forcing reaches on lineman is also bad. Much of Giants current situation is blowing good capital on shit returns on line. I’d argue o lines outside of an LT can be built with cluster drafts and multiple second and third day picks vs getting a QB.

Dont force a pick anywhere. BPA based on relative positional value.
RE: Unless Fromm materializes into something,  
WillVAB : 12/5/2021 9:58 pm : link
In comment 15482978 Go Terps said:
Quote:
the Giants don't have a quarterback. Drafting one should absolutely be in play.

And three "build the lines first" talk is nonsense. Football doesn't work that way. You don't just complete one area and move to the next.


The OL and DL was damn near a finished product when Eli was drafted, so it’s definitely not nonsense. Especially when the trenches have been trash for a decade and the primary cause for organizational shittiness over said decade.

The value is going to be there in the draft to truly fix the OL/DL. If they don’t take advantage of the opportunity get ready for another 5+ years of shittiness.
.  
pjcas18 : 12/5/2021 10:00 pm : link
IF you don't have a functioning OL then you won't know if you have the  
PatersonPlank : 12/5/2021 10:00 pm : link
QB or not. You'll end up drafting and drafting guys, and they will all look like crap. Until the OL can at least be average in pass support and run support, then you're just throwing picks away. You could have drafted a top QB but wouldn't know it, because he won't have time and won't develop
I'd rather sign Minshew  
Matt M. : 12/5/2021 10:00 pm : link
than draft a QB this year. We need an OL more.
RE: It doesn’t have to be Young  
bw in dc : 12/5/2021 10:01 pm : link
In comment 15482982 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
That kid has it though. Size is a concern. He had everything else.

The reality is you aren’t going to draft a elite QB. You want someone that can finish when the team around him is real good. Biggest mistake most make is thinking the QB fixes all. So common nowadays.


Here is what most don't realize - if you selecting a QB in the lottery, you really need to be selecting a player with "plus" physical/football attributes. High ceiling guys. And hopefully that player has good college production.

That was the problem with taking Jones. Low ceiling. He doesn't have any plus attributes outside of straight-line speed and he wasn't really that great at Duke. He was a second-third round project - at best.

Josh Allen is a great example of doing the right scouting. Big, fast, great arm, improvisor and some decent work at Wyoming. So the Bills drafted a player with great attributes and he was developed by great coaching by Dabol and Dorsey.

In this draft, there are prospects with excellent physical attributes -like Ridder, Willis, Picket. Even Corral, who I don't like as a lottery pick because of his body type, has a terrific arm and mobility.

This is an underrated QB class for '22...
I’m not looking for a decent team  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2021 10:03 pm : link
I’m looking for a super bowl contender

Mahomes, Brady, Eli, Wilson, we need to find the guy.
RE: RE: It doesn’t have to be Young  
WillVAB : 12/5/2021 10:04 pm : link
In comment 15483005 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15482982 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


That kid has it though. Size is a concern. He had everything else.

The reality is you aren’t going to draft a elite QB. You want someone that can finish when the team around him is real good. Biggest mistake most make is thinking the QB fixes all. So common nowadays.



Here is what most don't realize - if you selecting a QB in the lottery, you really need to be selecting a player with "plus" physical/football attributes. High ceiling guys. And hopefully that player has good college production.

That was the problem with taking Jones. Low ceiling. He doesn't have any plus attributes outside of straight-line speed and he wasn't really that great at Duke. He was a second-third round project - at best.

Josh Allen is a great example of doing the right scouting. Big, fast, great arm, improvisor and some decent work at Wyoming. So the Bills drafted a player with great attributes and he was developed by great coaching by Dabol and Dorsey.

In this draft, there are prospects with excellent physical attributes -like Ridder, Willis, Picket. Even Corral, who I don't like as a lottery pick because of his body type, has a terrific arm and mobility.

This is an underrated QB class for '22...


You’re wrong every time on QBs so the ‘22 class is probably just as shitty as advertised.
RE: I love the “don’t force a QB talk”  
jvm52106 : 12/5/2021 10:05 pm : link
In comment 15482913 Sean said:
Quote:
Yet every other post talks avoid forcing OL or EDGE. The Giants don’t have a good enough QB. It should not be dismissed, and it doesn’t have to be the 1st round either.


Not the same at all. There are multiple high level, highly regarded OL and Edge guys coming out. QBs not so much.
Hassan disagree and agree  
Lines of Scrimmage : 12/5/2021 10:06 pm : link
The lines as important as the QB. Weak links get exposed in big games.

I agree about draft allocation. Great lines can be built after the second round. Having that good left tackle is a big plus. Look at the last great Giants line. The one in the 80’s..

Football is a team game. QB is a big part. They all need help.

Terps believes in a fantasy QB. Good luck waiting for decades in some cases. Plenty of franchises still looking for one without addressing the root causes.
RE: RE: It doesn’t have to be Young  
jvm52106 : 12/5/2021 10:08 pm : link
In comment 15483005 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15482982 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


That kid has it though. Size is a concern. He had everything else.

The reality is you aren’t going to draft a elite QB. You want someone that can finish when the team around him is real good. Biggest mistake most make is thinking the QB fixes all. So common nowadays.



Here is what most don't realize - if you selecting a QB in the lottery, you really need to be selecting a player with "plus" physical/football attributes. High ceiling guys. And hopefully that player has good college production.

That was the problem with taking Jones. Low ceiling. He doesn't have any plus attributes outside of straight-line speed and he wasn't really that great at Duke. He was a second-third round project - at best.

Josh Allen is a great example of doing the right scouting. Big, fast, great arm, improvisor and some decent work at Wyoming. So the Bills drafted a player with great attributes and he was developed by great coaching by Dabol and Dorsey.

In this draft, there are prospects with excellent physical attributes -like Ridder, Willis, Picket. Even Corral, who I don't like as a lottery pick because of his body type, has a terrific arm and mobility.

This is an underrated QB class for '22...


Willis would be a horrible early pick, he is not ready for this level...
So I’m supposed to believe  
hassan : 12/5/2021 10:09 pm : link
All these #1 picks overall at QB enter situations with good offensive lines? Hardly. Very few teams who are bad enough to draft #1 have any kind of good offensive line. Many of those players have been good in spite of not playing on good teams initially.

If the line is good, you are probably drafting In the double digits or upper singles if you are a bad team, , and you are then looking to spend even more to move up and get a top prospect.

Take the right prospect whenever they present themselves. I bet some of you try to time investing in the market too.
RE: Unless Fromm materializes into something,  
FStubbs : 12/5/2021 10:10 pm : link
In comment 15482978 Go Terps said:
Quote:
the Giants don't have a quarterback. Drafting one should absolutely be in play.

And three "build the lines first" talk is nonsense. Football doesn't work that way. You don't just complete one area and move to the next.


Unless you know you have an elite QB there when you pick, you absolutely do the next best thing which is get stronger in the trenches.
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