I get it, I really do. We want the franchise guy, we had Eli, we want the savior pronto. Problem is, he’s not here. All these guys, Corral, Pickett, Ridder, Strong, you watch them and you’ re like, “ehhhh”. You have to make up why they might be great.
But we’re so desperate we want to just reach into the unknown. Hoping that this guy will be the guy. When it’s just another failed shot in the dark.
The guy, when you watch and you know is Bryce Young. He is the legitimate modern day QB.
The Giants need to focus this year into landing him next year. Salary dump a bunch of people. Play Fromm or Glennon all year long. You really want the guy? Well I’ve seen him and he’s a year away. Everything else is just wasting time.
If the line is good, you are probably drafting In the double digits or upper singles if you are a bad team, , and you are then looking to spend even more to move up and get a top prospect.
Take the right prospect whenever they present themselves. I bet some of you try to time investing in the market too.
To be fair, there's bad offensive lines, and then there's the Giants offensive line. The Giants offensive line has to dramatically improve to get to be called "bad".
Of course he's not ready. But he has skills that fit the modern game.
Why anyone disputes that, or can't see that, is beyond me.
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That dude is nowhere near ready.
Of course he's not ready. But he has skills that fit the modern game.
Why anyone disputes that, or can't see that, is beyond me.
There are many gifted kids out there. How many become franchise qbs? Let’s draft Blaine gabbert hes got the tools, oh wait he sucks.
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No one had brilliant expectations for Herbert to make an immediate impact. He does.
If you sit around waiting for a "franchise guy" to fall in your lap, as a Giants fan, you're going to die of old age because you don't want to be bad enough to get a #1 overall pick. Few people here have the stomach for it.
Apologies, but a number of people thought Allen would be a monster and Mac Jones was the most pro-ready QB in that draft.
There was nothing about Josh Allen in the draft except a big arm. He had won nothing, didn't lead his team anywhere, and had glaring flaws. His pick was pure projection. He had one elite skill, arm strength. He was shaky at throwing accuracy and turnovers. They coached him into success.
The point is not to debate what Allen was. The point is to highlight that "franchise" QBs are not always staring you in the face obvious, so punting on drafting a QB until a Peyton Manning type prospect appears is foolish business.
Notice they Did this with spending second and other draft capital/FA signings. Dont think there was any first rounders.
There was nothing about Josh Allen in the draft except a big arm. He had won nothing, didn't lead his team anywhere, and had glaring flaws. His pick was pure projection. He had one elite skill, arm strength. He was shaky at throwing accuracy and turnovers. They coached him into success.
The point is not to debate what Allen was. The point is to highlight that "franchise" QBs are not always staring you in the face obvious, so punting on drafting a QB until a Peyton Manning type prospect appears is foolish business.
This is incorrect. Allen showed great elusiveness, the ability to improvise, could throw on the run, and he was a great athlete. There was definitely fat to trim, but you are way underestimating his skill set...
His appeal was always "if you can fix x, y, z" which simply isn't the definition of a top tier prospect.
You can't tell me looking at his profile years ago that that's a guy you would have felt comfortable picking.
Steve Young stunk in Tampa. He became a HOF in SF. Jones is not a comparison. The next QB needs to have certain traits hard to find but he needs the supporting cast.
Ben, Eli, Rivers. All talented. All stepped into good situations. Rivers and Ben outstanding one. Eli it took a year. HC, OC, OL, running. Check those stats of those teams there first three years compared to the Giants.
His appeal was always "if you can fix x, y, z" which simply isn't the definition of a top tier prospect.
You can't tell me looking at his profile years ago that that's a guy you would have felt comfortable picking.
I certainly can. I had no issue taking him. I watched him workout that day at Wyoming and couldn't believe the arm talent I was watching. It was the best I had seen since Elway. Hell, Kiper had him the #1 prospect in his draft that year.
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No one had brilliant expectations for Herbert to make an immediate impact. He does.
If you sit around waiting for a "franchise guy" to fall in your lap, as a Giants fan, you're going to die of old age because you don't want to be bad enough to get a #1 overall pick. Few people here have the stomach for it.
Apologies, but a number of people thought Allen would be a monster and Mac Jones was the most pro-ready QB in that draft.
I was convinced Allen would be a monster and was mad as hell when Gettleman passed him up for a running back "touched by the hand of God" who danced behind the line of scrimmage even during his years at Penn State.
But right now he is not just bad he is awful.
He has no feel for the game, has a strong arm but is not accurate and has a long deliberate release.
While he is fast he cnstantly runs to contact.
This ineptitude has come against inferior competition.
He would be an awful pick .
As for the other QBs available in the draft, would you overdraft a QB and be in the same position that the Gaints are in with Jones?
Build the team and take the best player. At 4-5 the Giants can get two blue chip players
barber and shockey and tyree. o line was mostly acquired in 04 along with Eli or later. dave diehl and seubert were there but were hardly studs when he arrived.
i don’t think there is a good qb prospect worth a high pick. but if there was i would not worry about the current state of line and i would take that player.
The good news is that Jones like talent if not better should be out there in the FA market at half the price.
Drafting inferior talent to fill a need is a recipe for disaster.
They need to stop with the quick fix BS, because quite frankly, there is no quick fix for this team.
barber and shockey and tyree. o line was mostly acquired in 04 along with Eli or later. dave diehl and seubert were there but were hardly studs when he arrived.
i don’t think there is a good qb prospect worth a high pick. but if there was i would not worry about the current state of line and i would take that player.
The Giants had Osi and Strahan when they drafted Eli. They also had Tuck, Snee, O’Hara, and McKenzie by Eli’s first full year as a starter.
The current iteration of the Giants is nowhere near having the bones in place to support the next franchise QB. That’s why it would be prudent to address that now and get the QB in 23. If this organization continues to go after the next shiny new toy they’ll continue to get their shit pushed in year after year.
It’s funny that entire league saw it for what it is turning out to be and many Giants fans could not.
in the 2023 NFL Draft.
If that Alabama QB declares, take him #1.
As for the 2022 season, with so much re-building still required, it really doesn't matter who we have behind Center.
As for the upcoming Draft, if the Giants decide to go QB with their first pick, please let him just watch the game from the sidelines. Don't want him battered and bruised behind the O-line we're likely to trot out there next season.
I really like the idea of trading out of one of our first- round picks, unless of course there are two players available who would make perfect sense for the Giants.
On the other hand, this team has been gaslighting its fans for so long now, I'm not sure what "perfect sense" even means anymore for this dismal franchise.
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In comment 15482927 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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No one had brilliant expectations for Herbert to make an immediate impact. He does.
If you sit around waiting for a "franchise guy" to fall in your lap, as a Giants fan, you're going to die of old age because you don't want to be bad enough to get a #1 overall pick. Few people here have the stomach for it.
Apologies, but a number of people thought Allen would be a monster and Mac Jones was the most pro-ready QB in that draft.
There was nothing about Josh Allen in the draft except a big arm. He had won nothing, didn't lead his team anywhere, and had glaring flaws. His pick was pure projection. He had one elite skill, arm strength. He was shaky at throwing accuracy and turnovers. They coached him into success.
The point is not to debate what Allen was. The point is to highlight that "franchise" QBs are not always staring you in the face obvious, so punting on drafting a QB until a Peyton Manning type prospect appears is foolish business.
I'm sorry, but I disagree again. Josh Allen had a big arm, tremendous size, speed and escape-ability. In his senior year he carried a team that had no talent on the offensive side of the ball. In his junior year he had a TE and WR who were decent. As a result, his stats were better, and the team was more successful.
Exactly. QB is not this team's biggest problem. It's all about the O-line. Nothing works without one. Giants are Exhibit A. For years.
If you do not know the difference between "forcing" a QB and "forcing" an OL/ER then you need not post. If you get an average OL you still have a functional starting player. If you draft an average QB you get Jones, Tannehill, Dalton. One can play for you for 4 or 5 years(or more) the other has you looking for replacement in 3 or 4.
Picking up a QB in rnd 2 or 3 may be worth a chance, but when a team has as many non-functional players as this team, you cannot waste an opportunity to fix a hole. If one of the mention QBs is sitting there in the 2nd round, it may not be a waste to draft him.
And yet the argument against picking any QB over the last 3-5 years has been that the prospects aren't impressive enough. It needs to be a hall of fame type prospect, but no one wants to take the medicine of being bad enough to be in position to draft a guy like that.
Yes, 100%. Since the Giants are in cap hell, they can't make any big moves. In fact I suspect they will cut some high priced guys or trade them if at all possible. I'd trade BArkley, Jones, Bradbury, Adoree Jackson, Logan Ryan. Pretty much anyone for draft capital.
I'd move one of our 1st rd picks down too, especially with a team like the Falcons (a team that is still trying to win but doesnt know the window has closed) for a 1st pick next year.
Get the ammo now and yes, they need to tank. Trot out Fromm and Booker out there. Most of our skill guys will get hurt midseason anyway.
Bryce Young in 2023 with young tackles and cap flexibility should be the next step for this franchise.
The Lions backed themselves into a little bit of a corner with the Goff/Stafford trade.
They're basically stuck with Goff for at least 2022 and likely 2023.
Goff has a basically immovable $31M cap number next year.
they did that, b/c the Rams gave them a bunch of draft picks, but I don't think they can get out of Goff until the earliest 2023.
Do you take a QB #1 in that spot anyway? Maybe, but the other part of it is maybe you're right and today at least people don't see a QB worth that spot.
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In comment 15482927 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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No one had brilliant expectations for Herbert to make an immediate impact. He does.
If you sit around waiting for a "franchise guy" to fall in your lap, as a Giants fan, you're going to die of old age because you don't want to be bad enough to get a #1 overall pick. Few people here have the stomach for it.
Apologies, but a number of people thought Allen would be a monster and Mac Jones was the most pro-ready QB in that draft.
There was nothing about Josh Allen in the draft except a big arm. He had won nothing, didn't lead his team anywhere, and had glaring flaws. His pick was pure projection. He had one elite skill, arm strength. He was shaky at throwing accuracy and turnovers. They coached him into success.
The point is not to debate what Allen was. The point is to highlight that "franchise" QBs are not always staring you in the face obvious, so punting on drafting a QB until a Peyton Manning type prospect appears is foolish business.
This a million times over. People are TERRIBLE at projecting which QB is going to be good.
Pat Freaking Mahomes was drafted #10 overall behind Mitch Trubisky, behind John Ross. Pat Mahomes! A guy who just exudes talent - a guy who's on pace to be one of the all time greats. In pre-draft publication - look them up - he was consistently ranked in the 20s as a prospect and as low as the 50s.
And by the way, that was a notoriously "weak" QB draft. (which is not a thing). Nobody is good at predicting who's going to be a good QB. Certainly we cannot predict what is a "good QB class" (as if that's meaningful at all). Look at 2018 - supposedly a great class - 2 mega-busts and 1 run of the mill bust, along with Allen and Jackson, who were great picks.
Great example is Russell Wilson, went in the 3rd rd. I'll tell you what, all the Badger fans knew he'd be good, kid was just shredding opponents, throwing and running. But when you saw him, you knew.
That's Bryce Young, you just know the kid is legit by what he does on the field.
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and I haven't seen a single mock draft showing them picking a QB. That should tell you volumes about what the QBs are like in this draft
The Lions backed themselves into a little bit of a corner with the Goff/Stafford trade.
They're basically stuck with Goff for at least 2022 and likely 2023.
Goff has a basically immovable $31M cap number next year.
they did that, b/c the Rams gave them a bunch of draft picks, but I don't think they can get out of Goff until the earliest 2023.
Do you take a QB #1 in that spot anyway? Maybe, but the other part of it is maybe you're right and today at least people don't see a QB worth that spot.
If there were a QB worth the top pick (Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Caleb Williams) the Lions would make the pick and eat the Goff money at the first opportunity. There isn't a QB like that in this draft
Great example is Russell Wilson, went in the 3rd rd. I'll tell you what, all the Badger fans knew he'd be good, kid was just shredding opponents, throwing and running. But when you saw him, you knew.
That's Bryce Young, you just know the kid is legit by what he does on the field.
I would add CJ Stroud and Caleb Williams to that list. The problem we've got is the can't miss QB's aren't available until 2023 and 2024
If we said Bryce Young is on the Giants now, or a year from now, I'm very excited about it. But, 1) we might not be in position to get him, and 2) he still might not be that good. There's a pretty good chance that somebody in the 2022 class is better than him.
I'm not going to flip out if we pass on a QB this year. I just think people should recognize that there is a massive amount of unpredictability and very little certainty in QB assessments.
NO flyers on a QB in first round
I would extend that to the second and third rounds, too, but not as many times.
If you sit around waiting for a "franchise guy" to fall in your lap, as a Giants fan, you're going to die of old age because you don't want to be bad enough to get a #1 overall pick. Few people here have the stomach for it.
I was high on both players, especially Allen. I had Mac Jones as my #2 QB after Lawrence.
The problem here is they're making so many poor personnel decisions, there's very little being demonstrated on the field to suggest they've found many actual quality NFL starters at QB or the OL.
So far, I still don't like the '22 QB draft options. Bryce Young is impressive, but he is a bit undersized for NFL rigors.