I'm seeing the fan base starting to violently turn on the HC, where every little thing he says or doesn't say is now rubbing people the wrong way.
So here is an exercise in logic, and not emotion.
Where do you think the Giants current roster, including injuries and those in and out of the lineup ranks in the NFL? 1 through 32. Where do you put them?
Then ask yourself is the Giants record the same, better or worse than that ranking?
Whatever his reasons are, he is a fool for trying to sell this as a positive to a pissed off, weary fan base that hasn’t been happy in a decade.
Looks at WSH. They have been missing their QB and Young and are still better off than NYG.
Does anyone watch Giants games and think that this is a well coached team every time he punts from 4th and short in opposition territory while trailing in the second half or burning time outs on 2nd and 22?
Lemieux got hurt in preseason.
Gates got hurt in game 2.
Martinez got hurt in game 3.
Golladay missed half the games.
Barkley missed time.
Shepard has missed time.
Jones is out now and missed the 2nd half of the Dallas game.
Adoree Jackson missed time.
Logan Ryan missed games.
I feel the same about Judge that I do about Jones. Is he a good coach? You can’t say that he is. Similarly, does he deserve to be fired? I can’t say that when you consider all of the injuries and I think the Giants like him enough that he’ll get a third year but there will have to be some improvement in year 3.
The owners, who put out hundreds of millions in FA dollars based on an "evaluation" of the team's prospects, (and please don't sit there an tell us Judge had no input into that evaluation), must realize it too.
The results are in on the experiment in hiring an unknown special teams coach sans any head coaching or O or D coordinator experience: failure. Let's not compound it by continuing the failed experiment.
Looks at WSH. They have been missing their QB and Young and are still better off than NYG.
Does anyone watch Giants games and think that this is a well coached team every time he punts from 4th and short in opposition territory while trailing in the second half or burning time outs on 2nd and 22?
Enough with this no risk and try to lose a close game BS.
1) His in game management leaves much to be desired. Clock management, 4th down aggressiveness, a seemingly delayed time frame to make adjustments in game, all have cost the team this year. This is ignoring special teams, which have seen their own trials and tribulations with Dixon performing poorly all year, and some inopportune penalties.
2) Do we want to go through the same song and dance of hiring a new GM, and having him retain an existing coach? Doesn't it make sense to have a GM bring his own guy in?
I comment these things and someone who is still undecided on his future, but is leaning more towards a clean slate. What I ask you is, what has he done that's deserving of another season?
I was a supporter. But the way he has managed the game, strategized, his act in front of a mic, his arrogance, etc makes me wish he had taken the Mississippi State job instead.
The Belichick Tree at this point needs to be chopped down and used for firewood. Disaster.
Judge week after week makes some very boneheaded decisions or absolutely pussy calls and then present them like some lesson for all of us nubes to learn. he has wasted TO's that have cost us. Challenged plays not challengable. Called a TO after a TO and incurred a penalty and even blamed his headset not working (every week) as a reason for timeouts being wasted..
Judge has done nothing to make me feel like he is the guy anymore than Jones now has made me feel he is the guy at QB!
and yes DG still sucks and should be gone.
In the college ranks, Riley went from Oklahoma to USC. Kelly went from Notre Dame to LSU. Don’t really see another name there.
In the pros, only possible name coach would be Gruden and he’s a PR nightmare that the Giants will not explore.
Fact is, since Judge has gotten here, the drafts have gotten better. Thomas, McKinney, Toney, Ojulari, Robinson look like they might possibly be useful parts. I say, we see if we can add 3 more useful parts in this year’s draft.
The more I watch, the more it's becoming obvious that Judge is handcuffed by DG and his putrid roster. Our last two drafts actually look like NFL players, that's a huge sign that Judge's arrival changed some things. Not all mind you, because the senile old dope is still malingering and making bad choices. I had lost faith in Judge, but I really don't think the roster he inherited was to his liking.
I don't think Judge has lost the team. If he said they're terrible, I guarantee he'd lose them.
In reality, both the GM and the HC bear responsibility for the state of the roster. That applies to player scouting, drafting, and coaching.
In our case, the GM is old and in the way, and the coach is loud and incompetent. That they don't work well together is a safe assumption.
But let's be clear - both are at fault for this debacle.
Yes, until yesterday, the press conference. Even that was exposed yesterday, though.
He's a first-time head coach, and these timeout and clock management issues are fixable. I get the sense he's getting a lot out of the hand he's been dealt, but the issue again is the guy dealing the cards.
The trouble for him is when you get into the objective measurements. We're bad by almost any measure. There's no amount of explaining that can fix that.
The issue I have is the team is stunningly incompetent. Poor timeout usage almost every game. Players like Glennon and Jones finishing games hurt.
Judge doesn't call plays. How can his game management be so poor?
The Giants are in that range. There is no coach that would make this into a great team. There is no QB or any other single person who would make this into a great team. But you can evaluate the components of the team and draw conclusion.
Judge has done a number of things that are dumb and would indicate that he lacks a fundamental understanding of 20th century football. Note that Gettleman has also said many things that show the same thing. So this is an organizational problem.
Bottom line for me is - why does Judge deserve to be the coach of the Giants? I can't answer that. I'm not aware of anything he does well.
The roster "sucking" falls on Judge as well for both picking the playing and coaching the players.
All of the special teams guys he goes after and yet his special teams still suck.
He has no feel for the game and has no idea how to manage games 2 years into it.
Coaches can't get plays in on either side of the ball and he is constantly wasting TOs. I have yet to see any in game adjustments, especially after halftime, that help this team.
Now we hear that Judge can’t be a good coach also because the Getty roster is so bad. Well, Getty picked Judge to be the coach. No? And what’s more, during this past summer there was a large group of BBIers inferring that Judge had some kind of outsized and undisclosed secret influence over Getty in the draft and FA signings. This makes zero sense now (it didn’t make any sense to me this past summer) especially considering the ridiculous reports that Judge wanted to fire Garrett this summer but was forced to retain him.
So which is it? Joe Judge is the victim of Getty’s foolish and inept personnel decisions? Or is Joe Judge just another in a long list of Getty’s foolish and inept personnel decisions? Which really seems more likely on game day? Which seems more likely considering Judges total lack of experience and demonstrated success as a coach?
One thing we know for sure, Joe Judge has no truck with the Giants IT guys because his headset is still calling stupid timeouts on game days. Like everything else that’s wrong with the Giants, those dumb timeouts aren’t Joe’s fault. Right?
The issue I have is the team is stunningly incompetent. Poor timeout usage almost every game. Players like Glennon and Jones finishing games hurt.
Judge doesn't call plays. How can his game management be so poor?
His time management, his timeout management, his decisions that go against basic odds. He seems completely out of his depth.
It makes sense, let the new GM pick his coach instead tying a coach who has shown nothing in two years to him.
Whatever his reasons are, he is a fool for trying to sell this as a positive to a pissed off, weary fan base that hasn’t been happy in a decade.
This is it, right there. Judge gets somewhat of an excuse with all the injuries and trusting his OC and not micromanaging the offense (some assumptions there) - though a really good coach would be doing more with the hand he's been dealt and let's not even get started on the game management issues - but the REAL issue is the lines he is trying to feed to a smart and demanding fan base.
One thing he clearly is not good at is understanding his audience.
I know the roster stinks. But let's name a player that has gotten better under Joe and his coaching staff. Is there one? Thomas? Who else?
As I said, this is not a top half of the league in talent. Maybe not even top 2/3. But, we were sold a bill of goods that this man would get them to overperform. Most people bought it from his first press conference. He also promised a hard nosed, disciplined team that would be gritty, like the city/region they represent. We bought that too. We were wrong on all counts.
Did I expect a serious contender this year? No. But, I did honestly expect a team that would win 9 or 10 games. I was wrong. This team is putrid and no better than when he took over. Further entrenched with Jones and Barkley, they may actually be worse off.
e.g. Giants talent ranks 26th in the NFL. And gee wouldn't you know at 4-8 they have the 6th and 7th pick in the draft right now.
It might be even more accurate (and fun) to begin with, "the talent started the year at this # rank and is currently at this # rank."
I don't think Judge has lost the team. If he said they're terrible, I guarantee he'd lose them.
This team needs a new GM, coach, QB and a complete office restructure.
The GM needs to hire his own coach.
The only thing I can think of is firing Colombo.
In the college ranks, Riley went from Oklahoma to USC. Kelly went from Notre Dame to LSU. Don’t really see another name there.
In the pros, only possible name coach would be Gruden and he’s a PR nightmare that the Giants will not explore.
Fact is, since Judge has gotten here, the drafts have gotten better. Thomas, McKinney, Toney, Ojulari, Robinson look like they might possibly be useful parts. I say, we see if we can add 3 more useful parts in this year’s draft.
The guy was a nothing when we hired him and he's still a nothing. Adios muchacho. Go back to Foxboro and don't forget the coffee and donuts.
Could his in game decisions be better? Sure. But the Giants know they hired a first time HC. That’s why they gave him Garrett as his OC.
Could his in game decisions be better? Sure. But the Giants know they hired a first time HC. That’s why they gave him Garrett as his OC.
Agree completely with this. Can keep blowing through coaches every 2 years and it’s hard to get out of that cycle. Here are the names that will be available:
Doug Pederson
Josh McDaniels
Todd Bowles
Raheem Morris
Vance Joseph
Brian Daboll
And you know what? Chances are any of those coaches will have the same shitty record after 2 years. Rinse, repeat.
In the college ranks, Riley went from Oklahoma to USC. Kelly went from Notre Dame to LSU. Don’t really see another name there.
In the pros, only possible name coach would be Gruden and he’s a PR nightmare that the Giants will not explore.
Fact is, since Judge has gotten here, the drafts have gotten better. Thomas, McKinney, Toney, Ojulari, Robinson look like they might possibly be useful parts. I say, we see if we can add 3 more useful parts in this year’s draft.
Quote:
Okay, suppose we fire him… who’s the hot name?
In the college ranks, Riley went from Oklahoma to USC. Kelly went from Notre Dame to LSU. Don’t really see another name there.
In the pros, only possible name coach would be Gruden and he’s a PR nightmare that the Giants will not explore.
Fact is, since Judge has gotten here, the drafts have gotten better. Thomas, McKinney, Toney, Ojulari, Robinson look like they might possibly be useful parts. I say, we see if we can add 3 more useful parts in this year’s draft.
That's a loaded question. The answer is no because I don't want to have to recycle every 2 years. But, if the question is are we a team that has to go this route for the 3rd straight coach, then the answer is yes.
So Judge is a scout, please he has nothing to do with the draft.