and learned I had a chiari 1 malformation. with no syrinx. Basically brain tonsils herniate into the spinal column because the skull isn't big enough and forces it down. It's possible they found something like that (or maybe a syrinx which is a sac in the spinal column caused by disrupted CSF flow) which would mean his playing days are likely done (hope not).
draft O line beasts......edge rushing beasts......and do what the pats did last night, open holes in opposing defenses and run the ball, then prevent other team from scoring. find a competent qb to just go in and manage the games.
And next year is a huge question mark at this point.
I don't see the concern about how he shouldn't travel to games and he should just be resting at home. What's the difference between him sitting on a plane or sitting at home?
But, the quietness around this while a dark cloud seems to be following the story at the same time, is giving me David Wilson vibes…
That’s the first thing that I thought of as well, it’s David Wilson 2.0. Has any other team lost so many highly drafted players to career ending injuries so early into their careers more than us? This list is extensive: Wilson, Phillips, T Thomas, S Smith, Nicks, Jones the Safety, Pugh (not career ending but was injured every year with us), Richburg (same as Pugh), Sintim, etc. the list goes on and on, when will it stop?
but, I have had two spinal fusion surgeries in my neck (C4-C7 are now fused- cadaver bones, titanium plate and 8 titanium screws).
The issue for me is degenerative disc BUT, the original injury that started this is guessed to be when I was 16. You can have an issue and deal with it for a LONG time not knowing what it is until things get much worse. He is pretty young and in shape, muscle development across shoulders and neck etc. so perhaps didn't have an issue that was obvious. getting hit though exposes conditions that were not obvious before.
I am not going to guess or speculate on his current injury or long term status as that is clearly not known but, if he has a condition that was exposed by this hit/injury then the long-term health of Jones is far greater than if he plays football.
I would highly doubt he plays again this year no matter the diagnosis as there would be no point in risking further injury on what is clearly a lost season.
I'm fused C5-C7. I don't think the average person (who hasn't had to deal with it) realizes how serious these injuries are.
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
Starting to sound like its the type of thing that he could play with
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
People are sharing their experience/knowledge and from what I can tell, are caveating it with the fact that we don't know what he's experiencing, only that its something he's getting multiple opinions on.
Nothing that's being said here hurts anyone and talking about some of the possibilities is completely harmless.
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
Don't get dramatic. People speculating is what is done on a message board. Nobody diagnosed anything, just offered opinions to fill time. Does not hurt anyone or anything.
Besides we all have slept at a Holiday Inn Express...
"“Daniel (is) seeing some doctors today, receiving some different opinions and diagnosis and things of that nature,” said Head Coach Joe Judge on Monday. “When we find out more information on him, that’ll give us a better idea going through this week."
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
but if he's hit again (or in the right place) it could lead to very bad things.
Given what we have seen through actions, Daniel Jones practicing and throwing, but just not taking contact it seems that is a reasonable conclusion that the doctor's have concerns about the stability of the neck. Obviously, we don't know, but if that is the case, whatever you feel about the kid and his future, it is awful for him--especially since, by all accounts, he is someone who has dedicated himself to his job.
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
People are sharing their experience/knowledge and from what I can tell, are caveating it with the fact that we don't know what he's experiencing, only that its something he's getting multiple opinions on.
Nothing that's being said here hurts anyone and talking about some of the possibilities is completely harmless.
I was just sharing my own experience. I have no idea what's wrong with Jones. Didn't think I needed to add that caveat, but....
Neck injuries aren’t always immediately physically debilitating. It’s like some people want him playing just because he can stand and walk.
But any kind of slight damage or evidence of chronic condition developing may require some concern for surgical repair or regular therapies.
I hope the best for him physically and mentally. But starting to sound like there’s something possibly a little concerning or troubling longer term than just a neck strain now.
I see him as done and the Giants seem to already know this. At a minimum this would seem to cement the no reason to pick up the 5th year option thought and now it is just a question of if the Giants look elsewhere at QB this off-season.
Spoiler alert: maybe the carpenter was right, and DJ is done for the year.
If so, that's another knock. The kid isn't good enough to be made of glass.
How this apparently happened so early in the game, but yet he managed to finish off the game ?
I was thinking along the lines of day to day for this week rather than week to week or season ending.
It's just not making sense to me, had he left at the time or a couple of plays later I could understand the apparent severity of it, but finishing the game and still attending practices to an extent just isn't making sense even now.
Just a little puzzling
If you've played sports, you can relate to the elevated adrenaline levels that can overcome most injuries that don't result in skeletal/joint disruption.
I'm not shocked that DJ was able to play through the injury and not feel "hurt" until after the game. Had it been lower body and impacted his mobility, he probably would have been aware of it sooner, but this injury could very well have been unclear to DJ until he got looked at after the game.
"“Daniel (is) seeing some doctors today, receiving some different opinions and diagnosis and things of that nature,” said Head Coach Joe Judge on Monday. “When we find out more information on him, that’ll give us a better idea going through this week."
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
Yeah, that is in Philly.
More likely he wants to play and they will not let him...sort of like last year when he talked himself back in with the hammy.
RE: RE: Joe Judge basically said this during his presser ...
"“Daniel (is) seeing some doctors today, receiving some different opinions and diagnosis and things of that nature,” said Head Coach Joe Judge on Monday. “When we find out more information on him, that’ll give us a better idea going through this week."
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
Is "DonQuixote" even a Giants fan? The NYG medical staff is by far the most conservative in the league. We have cut guys based on injury who have played the very next week for their next team.
Did "DonQuixote" accidentally out himself as a dispassionate fan? Bummer.
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
You do understand that we don't actually affect any outcome to the game or injuries, right?
We're here to discuss what might happen. It seems like that might be over your head. Let me know how much you'd have donated next year and I'll cover it until you learn how a message board works.
does seem as if they may have found something unexpected that may be career threatening. In any event, I'd be surprised if we see Jones again this year at a minimum. Best wishes to him.
How this apparently happened so early in the game, but yet he managed to finish off the game ?
I was thinking along the lines of day to day for this week rather than week to week or season ending.
It's just not making sense to me, had he left at the time or a couple of plays later I could understand the apparent severity of it, but finishing the game and still attending practices to an extent just isn't making sense even now.
Just a little puzzling
If you've played sports, you can relate to the elevated adrenaline levels that can overcome most injuries that don't result in skeletal/joint disruption.
I'm not shocked that DJ was able to play through the injury and not feel "hurt" until after the game. Had it been lower body and impacted his mobility, he probably would have been aware of it sooner, but this injury could very well have been unclear to DJ until he got looked at after the game.
Reminds me of one time I was bowling league with a nasty headcold, barely knew I was even there. I somehow managed to get the first 8 strikes, and the adrenaline kicked in and the fog I was in vanished.
Obviously I didn't have to worry about being tackled by some 300# beast but adrenaline is one hell of a drug
at this juncture it benefits nobody to be clear about what the situation is, so we are not going to get clarity on the true status of Jones' injury until it does.
I think Judge is ready to move on from Jones, but I am just guessing, reading tea leaves. I think this is regardless of Jones' injury.
It does seem to me, reading tea leaves, that the silence about the exact nature of the injury is unsettling. It sounds like it could be serious. But it doesn't benefit the Giants to come out and say it is serious, if it is. And Jones' camp have no interest in being truthful if it is serious. But none of us really fucking knows.
Contrary to what many think, these people do and should lie, or are evasive, about these things all the time in public facing statements.
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
You do understand that we don't actually affect any outcome to the game or injuries, right?
We're here to discuss what might happen. It seems like that might be over your head. Let me know how much you'd have donated next year and I'll cover it until you learn how a message board works.
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
You do understand that we don't actually affect any outcome to the game or injuries, right?
We're here to discuss what might happen. It seems like that might be over your head. Let me know how much you'd have donated next year and I'll cover it until you learn how a message board works.
with the team? Two, did the team change their policy of players who are ruled out travelling with the team?
If they are waiting for a spinal stenosis diagnosis, it wouldn't be an issue to fly. I'm sure they are more worried about contact. Behind our OLine, contact is guaranteed. Ask Glennon.
"“Daniel (is) seeing some doctors today, receiving some different opinions and diagnosis and things of that nature,” said Head Coach Joe Judge on Monday. “When we find out more information on him, that’ll give us a better idea going through this week."
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
Is "DonQuixote" even a Giants fan? The NYG medical staff is by far the most conservative in the league. We have cut guys based on injury who have played the very next week for their next team.
Did "DonQuixote" accidentally out himself as a dispassionate fan? Bummer.
You meant your tirade for me, not DonQuixote. And I don't agree with your idea that the Giants' medical staff is conservative.
They cleared Lemieux to play on a torn patellar tendon and 14 plays later, boom, out for the year.
And also Jones playing the game right after a concussion, regardless of whether he passed the league's protocols. He was not right in the Rams game.
So it makes me not a Giants fan that I'd rather see players get reasonably healthy instead of rush to come back, and suck and possibly end their seasons? Ok. Thanks.
"“Daniel (is) seeing some doctors today, receiving some different opinions and diagnosis and things of that nature,” said Head Coach Joe Judge on Monday. “When we find out more information on him, that’ll give us a better idea going through this week."
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
Is "DonQuixote" even a Giants fan? The NYG medical staff is by far the most conservative in the league. We have cut guys based on injury who have played the very next week for their next team.
Did "DonQuixote" accidentally out himself as a dispassionate fan? Bummer.
All I was trying to say is that people are making it out like some big unreported secret, when it was actually discussed in a press conference. That's all ...
draft O line beasts......edge rushing beasts......and do what the pats did last night, open holes in opposing defenses and run the ball, then prevent other team from scoring. find a competent qb to just go in and manage the games.
Even if he doesn’t, and I truly hope he ends up OK, that approach is mandatory.
RE: Asshat. All I can say right now...he wants to play
I don't doubt it. I also don't think he has the best judgement considering the hits he takes. I bet he wanted to play last year after getting hurt, and he did play. That Arizona game was horrible. He shouldn't have been out there.
beyond the obvious that it's a neck, is that the Giants may have caused or exacerbated this injury by the way they utilized Jones.
How many designed runs between the tackles have we seen for this guy this year? I get it - the coaching staff doesn't have faith in him to hang in the pocket and find the open man behind a porous offensive line - but the alternative shouldn't be to turn him into an H-back.
He may be "tough" but bodies like his aren't designed to absorb ballcarrier-type punishment. Compound that with the fact that Jones' instincts as a ball-carrier are all wrong. When's the last time he made a well-timed slide to avoid a big hit?
Most fans can see this with their own two eyes, yet the geniuses who run this team can't. I sure hope they didn't hurt the guy's neck because of it.
TTT.....that is how he played in HS, and everyone has told him
I don't see the concern about how he shouldn't travel to games and he should just be resting at home. What's the difference between him sitting on a plane or sitting at home?
That’s the first thing that I thought of as well, it’s David Wilson 2.0. Has any other team lost so many highly drafted players to career ending injuries so early into their careers more than us? This list is extensive: Wilson, Phillips, T Thomas, S Smith, Nicks, Jones the Safety, Pugh (not career ending but was injured every year with us), Richburg (same as Pugh), Sintim, etc. the list goes on and on, when will it stop?
The issue for me is degenerative disc BUT, the original injury that started this is guessed to be when I was 16. You can have an issue and deal with it for a LONG time not knowing what it is until things get much worse. He is pretty young and in shape, muscle development across shoulders and neck etc. so perhaps didn't have an issue that was obvious. getting hit though exposes conditions that were not obvious before.
I am not going to guess or speculate on his current injury or long term status as that is clearly not known but, if he has a condition that was exposed by this hit/injury then the long-term health of Jones is far greater than if he plays football.
I would highly doubt he plays again this year no matter the diagnosis as there would be no point in risking further injury on what is clearly a lost season.
I'm fused C5-C7. I don't think the average person (who hasn't had to deal with it) realizes how serious these injuries are.
People are sharing their experience/knowledge and from what I can tell, are caveating it with the fact that we don't know what he's experiencing, only that its something he's getting multiple opinions on.
Nothing that's being said here hurts anyone and talking about some of the possibilities is completely harmless.
Don't get dramatic. People speculating is what is done on a message board. Nobody diagnosed anything, just offered opinions to fill time. Does not hurt anyone or anything.
Besides we all have slept at a Holiday Inn Express...
Fuck this guy
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
Given what we have seen through actions, Daniel Jones practicing and throwing, but just not taking contact it seems that is a reasonable conclusion that the doctor's have concerns about the stability of the neck. Obviously, we don't know, but if that is the case, whatever you feel about the kid and his future, it is awful for him--especially since, by all accounts, he is someone who has dedicated himself to his job.
Quote:
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
People are sharing their experience/knowledge and from what I can tell, are caveating it with the fact that we don't know what he's experiencing, only that its something he's getting multiple opinions on.
Nothing that's being said here hurts anyone and talking about some of the possibilities is completely harmless.
I was just sharing my own experience. I have no idea what's wrong with Jones. Didn't think I needed to add that caveat, but....
But any kind of slight damage or evidence of chronic condition developing may require some concern for surgical repair or regular therapies.
I hope the best for him physically and mentally. But starting to sound like there’s something possibly a little concerning or troubling longer term than just a neck strain now.
Spoiler alert: maybe the carpenter was right, and DJ is done for the year.
If so, that's another knock. The kid isn't good enough to be made of glass.
I was thinking along the lines of day to day for this week rather than week to week or season ending.
It's just not making sense to me, had he left at the time or a couple of plays later I could understand the apparent severity of it, but finishing the game and still attending practices to an extent just isn't making sense even now.
Just a little puzzling
If you've played sports, you can relate to the elevated adrenaline levels that can overcome most injuries that don't result in skeletal/joint disruption.
I'm not shocked that DJ was able to play through the injury and not feel "hurt" until after the game. Had it been lower body and impacted his mobility, he probably would have been aware of it sooner, but this injury could very well have been unclear to DJ until he got looked at after the game.
I hope he's ok, just as one human caring about another.
I don't care whether he's able to play football again.
Quote:
"“Daniel (is) seeing some doctors today, receiving some different opinions and diagnosis and things of that nature,” said Head Coach Joe Judge on Monday. “When we find out more information on him, that’ll give us a better idea going through this week."
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
Yeah, that is in Philly.
More likely he wants to play and they will not let him...sort of like last year when he talked himself back in with the hammy.
Quote:
"“Daniel (is) seeing some doctors today, receiving some different opinions and diagnosis and things of that nature,” said Head Coach Joe Judge on Monday. “When we find out more information on him, that’ll give us a better idea going through this week."
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
Is "DonQuixote" even a Giants fan? The NYG medical staff is by far the most conservative in the league. We have cut guys based on injury who have played the very next week for their next team.
Did "DonQuixote" accidentally out himself as a dispassionate fan? Bummer.
You do understand that we don't actually affect any outcome to the game or injuries, right?
We're here to discuss what might happen. It seems like that might be over your head. Let me know how much you'd have donated next year and I'll cover it until you learn how a message board works.
Quote:
How this apparently happened so early in the game, but yet he managed to finish off the game ?
I was thinking along the lines of day to day for this week rather than week to week or season ending.
It's just not making sense to me, had he left at the time or a couple of plays later I could understand the apparent severity of it, but finishing the game and still attending practices to an extent just isn't making sense even now.
Just a little puzzling
If you've played sports, you can relate to the elevated adrenaline levels that can overcome most injuries that don't result in skeletal/joint disruption.
I'm not shocked that DJ was able to play through the injury and not feel "hurt" until after the game. Had it been lower body and impacted his mobility, he probably would have been aware of it sooner, but this injury could very well have been unclear to DJ until he got looked at after the game.
Reminds me of one time I was bowling league with a nasty headcold, barely knew I was even there. I somehow managed to get the first 8 strikes, and the adrenaline kicked in and the fog I was in vanished.
Obviously I didn't have to worry about being tackled by some 300# beast but adrenaline is one hell of a drug
I think Judge is ready to move on from Jones, but I am just guessing, reading tea leaves. I think this is regardless of Jones' injury.
It does seem to me, reading tea leaves, that the silence about the exact nature of the injury is unsettling. It sounds like it could be serious. But it doesn't benefit the Giants to come out and say it is serious, if it is. And Jones' camp have no interest in being truthful if it is serious. But none of us really fucking knows.
Contrary to what many think, these people do and should lie, or are evasive, about these things all the time in public facing statements.
Quote:
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
You do understand that we don't actually affect any outcome to the game or injuries, right?
We're here to discuss what might happen. It seems like that might be over your head. Let me know how much you'd have donated next year and I'll cover it until you learn how a message board works.
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...
Quote:
In comment 15485098 Beer Man said:
Quote:
who have no access to DJ's medical records somehow know exactly what is wrong with him and how his career is now in jeopardy due to the seriousness of his injury. Yet the team has reported nothing to support your diagnosis and is not putting him IR. Before giving our expert medical opinions, why not wait a week or so to see what is really going on and let the real medical professionals, that have him in their care, evaluate him.
You do understand that we don't actually affect any outcome to the game or injuries, right?
We're here to discuss what might happen. It seems like that might be over your head. Let me know how much you'd have donated next year and I'll cover it until you learn how a message board works.
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...
Look what you were able to accomplish with punctuation. Imagine what you could make happen with your brain.
Fuck this guy
You're going to be disappointed. DJ will be gone before Judge.
If they are waiting for a spinal stenosis diagnosis, it wouldn't be an issue to fly. I'm sure they are more worried about contact. Behind our OLine, contact is guaranteed. Ask Glennon.
Quote:
In comment 15484939 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
"“Daniel (is) seeing some doctors today, receiving some different opinions and diagnosis and things of that nature,” said Head Coach Joe Judge on Monday. “When we find out more information on him, that’ll give us a better idea going through this week."
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
Is "DonQuixote" even a Giants fan? The NYG medical staff is by far the most conservative in the league. We have cut guys based on injury who have played the very next week for their next team.
Did "DonQuixote" accidentally out himself as a dispassionate fan? Bummer.
You meant your tirade for me, not DonQuixote. And I don't agree with your idea that the Giants' medical staff is conservative.
They cleared Lemieux to play on a torn patellar tendon and 14 plays later, boom, out for the year.
And also Jones playing the game right after a concussion, regardless of whether he passed the league's protocols. He was not right in the Rams game.
So it makes me not a Giants fan that I'd rather see players get reasonably healthy instead of rush to come back, and suck and possibly end their seasons? Ok. Thanks.
When you need a second opinion it's almost never good.
Quote:
In comment 15484939 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
"“Daniel (is) seeing some doctors today, receiving some different opinions and diagnosis and things of that nature,” said Head Coach Joe Judge on Monday. “When we find out more information on him, that’ll give us a better idea going through this week."
Could be that Jones doesn't trust the Giants's doctors' "rub some dirt on it and get back on the field" approach to sports medicine.
Is "DonQuixote" even a Giants fan? The NYG medical staff is by far the most conservative in the league. We have cut guys based on injury who have played the very next week for their next team.
Did "DonQuixote" accidentally out himself as a dispassionate fan? Bummer.
All I was trying to say is that people are making it out like some big unreported secret, when it was actually discussed in a press conference. That's all ...
Quote:
sounds like disagreement on diagnosis and/or treatment, timeline, etc. I too wonder if it's stenosis.
When you need a second opinion it's almost never good.
You mean, like not being thrilled about the first opinion? Yeah, I agree...
He is a tough kid.
It's like when a pitcher goes for a 2nd opinion. It's usually only a matter of days before TJ surgery is announced....
Even if he doesn’t, and I truly hope he ends up OK, that approach is mandatory.
He is a tough kid.
I don't doubt it. I also don't think he has the best judgement considering the hits he takes. I bet he wanted to play last year after getting hurt, and he did play. That Arizona game was horrible. He shouldn't have been out there.
How many designed runs between the tackles have we seen for this guy this year? I get it - the coaching staff doesn't have faith in him to hang in the pocket and find the open man behind a porous offensive line - but the alternative shouldn't be to turn him into an H-back.
He may be "tough" but bodies like his aren't designed to absorb ballcarrier-type punishment. Compound that with the fact that Jones' instincts as a ball-carrier are all wrong. When's the last time he made a well-timed slide to avoid a big hit?
Most fans can see this with their own two eyes, yet the geniuses who run this team can't. I sure hope they didn't hurt the guy's neck because of it.
You watched him play in HS?
I suspect the carpenter had a legit scoop.
Quote:
If he’s week to week, is he going for a 2nd opinion? Maybe, but my guess is he was told it was season-ending, at the very least.
I suspect the carpenter had a legit scoop.
Yep.