Canty was on the Bart and Hahn show (ESPN 98.7) yesterday afternoon and did bring up the Mara family's involvement in the teams operations. Specifically Chris Mara as SVP of Personnel being deeply involved in college player evaluations, the draft and the Giants draft board. Also mentioned his son being employed now and referenced that Chris has been in that position since 2011.
He left out the dysfunctional reporting line of Chris Mara directly reporting up to his brother John instead of the GM like most normal organizations.
I personally have had enough talking about Judge, Gettleman, Jones etc. They are simply the deck chairs on the Titanic.
I would encourage us all to call in and email these media personalities reinforcing what we talk about here and maybe we can create the groundswell that can't be ignored by the Mara's. Specifically to get Chris and his son out of operations given the failed talent evaluations over the last ten years.
I have called WFAN and briefly mentioned this point. If we all do, at least the spotlight will be shone on it. The media are like vipers and if we push this thread it will resonate. For too long it's been below the surface and most media types don't even know about it. Once they do I'm sure it will be a top topic going forward.
Bring in the right GM. Look at Dallas, it is possible for family run businesses to get their shit together.
Yup, and by what little has been reported, Tim is actually a pretty competent guy. Maybe he can right the ship.
The site owner doesn’t, he laughs when people here say Chris is part of the problem.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the drafts took a nosedive the day he stepped in the building.
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That was a clearly an awful pick but that decision doesn't crack the top 500 in poor decisions made by this franchise.
I'm sure Chris Mara isn't helping the situation but it seems a little overblown.
The Davis Webb example seems to be a favorite one on here with respect to the overwhelming influence Chris Mara has on the process. And I laugh every time I read that point.
Webb was ranked by our own Sy'56 as the 6th best QB in the draft that year, right behind #5 Patrick Mahomes. And guess what... Webb was the 5th QB drafted and not taken until the 3rd round. Is it just possible that Chris Mara did like Davis Webb just like maybe Reese did and some others in the office..and they put an overall grade on him that was pretty close to where other third party NFL evaluators had a similar grade? Is it possible?
This isn't exactly like taking Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning for the #1 overall pick.
Oh, the drama...
Good luck proving it or getting them to boot a family member.
I was told 'You didn't know what you're talking about' or 'You didn't have any proof'.
If it's just a figure head position to collect a paycheck that's one thing. But when he starts to influence the draft and possibly free agent signings then we're no better off then the WFT with Snyder running the show.
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shot down as hearsay multiple times, but imo there is no need for any Mara to be employed by this team other than nepotism. If a former part of this organization is saying that Mara is involved in creating this shit show...it needs to stop and they need to be held responsible.
They own the TEAM! The Jones's are all involved in Dallas. You can argue the point all you want but it isn't nepotism, it is called ownership.
The difference is Jerry is bad but unfortunately Stephen is very good.
We can do a petition on change.org and try to get that trending on social and other platforms. Send it to the beats.
I nominate the OP or Arnie - ( New Window )
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In comment 15485017 Sean said:
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That was a clearly an awful pick but that decision doesn't crack the top 500 in poor decisions made by this franchise.
I'm sure Chris Mara isn't helping the situation but it seems a little overblown.
The Davis Webb example seems to be a favorite one on here with respect to the overwhelming influence Chris Mara has on the process. And I laugh every time I read that point.
Webb was ranked by our own Sy'56 as the 6th best QB in the draft that year, right behind #5 Patrick Mahomes. And guess what... Webb was the 5th QB drafted and not taken until the 3rd round. Is it just possible that Chris Mara did like Davis Webb just like maybe Reese did and some others in the office..and they put an overall grade on him that was pretty close to where other third party NFL evaluators had a similar grade? Is it possible?
This isn't exactly like taking Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning for the #1 overall pick.
Oh, the drama...
I did not know that Sy is never wrong, my apologies.
That's not the point, the point was that Chris Mara was touting Webb as the heir apparent to Eli and that he could be the next great Giants QB. If they would have allowed Chris to take him earlier then the 3rd round, he would have. He was pushing for him in round 2 (we took Tomlinson).
As a matter of fact, Mara's conviction of Webb was so strong that he went to bat for him when Gettleman came in at the end of 2017. We do know what happened a few months later, Gettleman drafted a RB, passed on Nelson, Chubb and Josh Allen (Darnold too, thankfully). Webb was cut right after training camp that year which shocked BBI. Maybe Gettleman thought he had the QB of the future in Webb due to Chris' praise? Who knows.
Cronyism is much more emblematic of the Giants dysfunction imo. These are people that aren't being hired because of blood but because they have parallel thinking and philosophy to the guy ultimately calling the shots, John Mara. The only Mara that deserves criticism is John because he compulsively needs to insulate himself with like-minded people.
You beat me to it as I was writing my comments.
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John Mara will be 68. Tim McDonnell is probably the next CEO of the Giants. But I think it's probably about 10 years away if everyone stays in good health.
Yup, and by what little has been reported, Tim is actually a pretty competent guy. Maybe he can right the ship.
People said Chris was competent back when he published that scouting report and the Atlanta Falcons even tried to get him as a GM.
the only effective way is to have Antifa do it for us. You know.. burn the owner's cars in the parking lot, etc
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In comment 15485017 Sean said:
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That was a clearly an awful pick but that decision doesn't crack the top 500 in poor decisions made by this franchise.
I'm sure Chris Mara isn't helping the situation but it seems a little overblown.
The Davis Webb example seems to be a favorite one on here with respect to the overwhelming influence Chris Mara has on the process. And I laugh every time I read that point.
Webb was ranked by our own Sy'56 as the 6th best QB in the draft that year, right behind #5 Patrick Mahomes. And guess what... Webb was the 5th QB drafted and not taken until the 3rd round. Is it just possible that Chris Mara did like Davis Webb just like maybe Reese did and some others in the office..and they put an overall grade on him that was pretty close to where other third party NFL evaluators had a similar grade? Is it possible?
This isn't exactly like taking Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning for the #1 overall pick.
Oh, the drama...
you are completely missing the point.
The problem is we have someone in the personnel office with great influence that can never be fired due to performance. Unless a huge stink is made.
Even if he is fairly competent, they aren't operating with a single vision pulling in the same direction. Its a recipe for mediocrity at best.
Good luck proving it or getting them to boot a family member.
This.
To those who say it's all Gettleman, I then ask whether C. Mara's and McDonnell's jobs are figurehead or no-show jobs, in which case that's a different problem. Best I can tell it's by committee, and the committee isn't doing a good job. But as Jon says, good luck getting them to boot a family member. I think the best we can hope for is that they hire a strong and capable GM *and* give him more authority.
To those who say it's all Gettleman, I then ask whether C. Mara's and McDonnell's jobs are figurehead or no-show jobs, in which case that's a different problem.
I said this over a week ago. They are NOT FIGUREHEADS or NO SHOW JOBS. Otherwise, they could be given jobs in the marketing department at a high salary where NOBODY would give a shit. There would be no reason to put them in roles that would come with scrutiny (ie player personnel) if they truly were not making decisions.
So, they put them in these roles and do their best to make sure their involvement is not very public. This could also be why it took so long to fire Reese... knowing there were other fingerprints at the crime scene.
The Davis Webb example seems to be a favorite one on here with respect to the overwhelming influence Chris Mara has on the process. And I laugh every time I read that point.
Webb was ranked by our own Sy'56 as the 6th best QB in the draft that year, right behind #5 Patrick Mahomes. And guess what... Webb was the 5th QB drafted and not taken until the 3rd round. Is it just possible that Chris Mara did like Davis Webb just like maybe Reese did and some others in the office..and they put an overall grade on him that was pretty close to where other third party NFL evaluators had a similar grade? Is it possible?
This isn't exactly like taking Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning for the #1 overall pick.
Oh, the drama...
I did not know that Sy is never wrong, my apologies.
That's not the point, the point was that Chris Mara was touting Webb as the heir apparent to Eli and that he could be the next great Giants QB. If they would have allowed Chris to take him earlier then the 3rd round, he would have. He was pushing for him in round 2 (we took Tomlinson).
As a matter of fact, Mara's conviction of Webb was so strong that he went to bat for him when Gettleman came in at the end of 2017. We do know what happened a few months later, Gettleman drafted a RB, passed on Nelson, Chubb and Josh Allen (Darnold too, thankfully). Webb was cut right after training camp that year which shocked BBI. Maybe Gettleman thought he had the QB of the future in Webb due to Chris' praise? Who knows.
Nothing to do with Sy being right or wrong, just setting the stage that Webb was a QB likely to be picked in the first several rounds of the draft. So Mara and/or the NYG liking him too is not a shocker especially since the wnet public about probably picking a QB that year.
Also, saying Webb could be Eli's successor after he was just picked in the 3rd round isn't exactly earth-shattering. He's the likely backup, who else would be at that point?
As to the rest of your extrapolating, you're just making it up as you go along...
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In comment 15485143 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 15485017 Sean said:
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.
That was a clearly an awful pick but that decision doesn't crack the top 500 in poor decisions made by this franchise.
I'm sure Chris Mara isn't helping the situation but it seems a little overblown.
The Davis Webb example seems to be a favorite one on here with respect to the overwhelming influence Chris Mara has on the process. And I laugh every time I read that point.
Webb was ranked by our own Sy'56 as the 6th best QB in the draft that year, right behind #5 Patrick Mahomes. And guess what... Webb was the 5th QB drafted and not taken until the 3rd round. Is it just possible that Chris Mara did like Davis Webb just like maybe Reese did and some others in the office..and they put an overall grade on him that was pretty close to where other third party NFL evaluators had a similar grade? Is it possible?
This isn't exactly like taking Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning for the #1 overall pick.
Oh, the drama...
I did not know that Sy is never wrong, my apologies.
That's not the point, the point was that Chris Mara was touting Webb as the heir apparent to Eli and that he could be the next great Giants QB. If they would have allowed Chris to take him earlier then the 3rd round, he would have. He was pushing for him in round 2 (we took Tomlinson).
As a matter of fact, Mara's conviction of Webb was so strong that he went to bat for him when Gettleman came in at the end of 2017. We do know what happened a few months later, Gettleman drafted a RB, passed on Nelson, Chubb and Josh Allen (Darnold too, thankfully). Webb was cut right after training camp that year which shocked BBI. Maybe Gettleman thought he had the QB of the future in Webb due to Chris' praise? Who knows.
How do you know all this...?
Coughlin
McAdoo
Shurmur
Heck even Gettleman since it looks like he'll be hung soon...
Would just come out and expose this whole situation?
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Everyone on here realizes Chris Mara is a huge part of the problem, but calling WFAN isn’t going to make Mara fire his brother.
*hangs up phone*
=\
Maybe WFAN can get "Captain Tuttle" Chris Mara on? Not.
That's where people have to realize it's a spot for entertainment and re-evaluate their priorities
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In comment 15485189 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15485143 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 15485017 Sean said:
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.
That was a clearly an awful pick but that decision doesn't crack the top 500 in poor decisions made by this franchise.
I'm sure Chris Mara isn't helping the situation but it seems a little overblown.
The Davis Webb example seems to be a favorite one on here with respect to the overwhelming influence Chris Mara has on the process. And I laugh every time I read that point.
Webb was ranked by our own Sy'56 as the 6th best QB in the draft that year, right behind #5 Patrick Mahomes. And guess what... Webb was the 5th QB drafted and not taken until the 3rd round. Is it just possible that Chris Mara did like Davis Webb just like maybe Reese did and some others in the office..and they put an overall grade on him that was pretty close to where other third party NFL evaluators had a similar grade? Is it possible?
This isn't exactly like taking Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning for the #1 overall pick.
Oh, the drama...
I did not know that Sy is never wrong, my apologies.
That's not the point, the point was that Chris Mara was touting Webb as the heir apparent to Eli and that he could be the next great Giants QB. If they would have allowed Chris to take him earlier then the 3rd round, he would have. He was pushing for him in round 2 (we took Tomlinson).
As a matter of fact, Mara's conviction of Webb was so strong that he went to bat for him when Gettleman came in at the end of 2017. We do know what happened a few months later, Gettleman drafted a RB, passed on Nelson, Chubb and Josh Allen (Darnold too, thankfully). Webb was cut right after training camp that year which shocked BBI. Maybe Gettleman thought he had the QB of the future in Webb due to Chris' praise? Who knows.
How do you know all this...?
My father is friends with a former Giants employee that dealt with mostly one area of the country
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their talent evaluation and personnel decisions began to decline in 2011 when he stepped into this leadership role.
Good luck proving it or getting them to boot a family member.
This.
To those who say it's all Gettleman, I then ask whether C. Mara's and McDonnell's jobs are figurehead or no-show jobs, in which case that's a different problem. Best I can tell it's by committee, and the committee isn't doing a good job. But as Jon says, good luck getting them to boot a family member. I think the best we can hope for is that they hire a strong and capable GM *and* give him more authority.
Yes, a committee of a few guys but the GM drives.
No, they aren't doing a good job especially the guy driving.
A GM that is a strong talent evaluator and runs a good process will do fine. And he doesn't need any more authority than already given.
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In comment 15485197 JonC said:
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their talent evaluation and personnel decisions began to decline in 2011 when he stepped into this leadership role.
Good luck proving it or getting them to boot a family member.
This.
To those who say it's all Gettleman, I then ask whether C. Mara's and McDonnell's jobs are figurehead or no-show jobs, in which case that's a different problem. Best I can tell it's by committee, and the committee isn't doing a good job. But as Jon says, good luck getting them to boot a family member. I think the best we can hope for is that they hire a strong and capable GM *and* give him more authority.
Yes, a committee of a few guys but the GM drives.
No, they aren't doing a good job especially the guy driving.
A GM that is a strong talent evaluator and runs a good process will do fine. And he doesn't need any more authority than already given.
what strong GM candidate is coming here when he has to share the role with untouchable guys?
How does he become a stronger voice than the maras before his guys hit the field, thus cutting them out of the loop? Its impossible
That actually did happen on the '86 team, as one of the Rooneys was on staff.
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In comment 15485197 JonC said:
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their talent evaluation and personnel decisions began to decline in 2011 when he stepped into this leadership role.
Good luck proving it or getting them to boot a family member.
This.
To those who say it's all Gettleman, I then ask whether C. Mara's and McDonnell's jobs are figurehead or no-show jobs, in which case that's a different problem. Best I can tell it's by committee, and the committee isn't doing a good job. But as Jon says, good luck getting them to boot a family member. I think the best we can hope for is that they hire a strong and capable GM *and* give him more authority.
Yes, a committee of a few guys but the GM drives.
No, they aren't doing a good job especially the guy driving.
A GM that is a strong talent evaluator and runs a good process will do fine. And he doesn't need any more authority than already given.
The problem is, any GM relies on scouting reports. And the scouts report to Chris Mara, not the GM.
stop looking for things to blame to maybe almost feel better about things.
the GM sucks- his signings suck- his drafts are pretty meh-- and his hirings suck.
period- end of story. everything else is whatever.
now if you want to blame the hiring of gettleman on the maras.... then that i am perfectly happy to jump on board with-- the process and hiring was pathetic- and they need to get outside the comfort zone, and remove themselves from the next gm process... will they? ehhh doubtful.
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their talent evaluation and personnel decisions began to decline in 2011 when he stepped into this leadership role.
Good luck proving it or getting them to boot a family member.
This.
To those who say it's all Gettleman, I then ask whether C. Mara's and McDonnell's jobs are figurehead or no-show jobs, in which case that's a different problem. Best I can tell it's by committee, and the committee isn't doing a good job. But as Jon says, good luck getting them to boot a family member. I think the best we can hope for is that they hire a strong and capable GM *and* give him more authority.
The problem with this argument is first, it goes against what the Giants have on their own website. The second is Chris Mara and Tim McDonnell get paychecks even if they have no position - like all the other Mara descendants. They are owners. They have the positions because they WANT TO WORK IN PERSONNEL. This isn't rocket science.
stop looking for things to blame to maybe almost feel better about things.
the GM sucks- his signings suck- his drafts are pretty meh-- and his hirings suck.
period- end of story. everything else is whatever.
now if you want to blame the hiring of gettleman on the maras.... then that i am perfectly happy to jump on board with-- the process and hiring was pathetic- and they need to get outside the comfort zone, and remove themselves from the next gm process... will they? ehhh doubtful.
no one is defending DG or saying he should keep his job
But to say everything else is "whatever" (not even sure what that means) is bullshit. It certainly isn't "whatever"
What role is he sharing?
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Dave Gettleman runs the personnel--- not someone who is not named the GM.
stop looking for things to blame to maybe almost feel better about things.
the GM sucks- his signings suck- his drafts are pretty meh-- and his hirings suck.
period- end of story. everything else is whatever.
now if you want to blame the hiring of gettleman on the maras.... then that i am perfectly happy to jump on board with-- the process and hiring was pathetic- and they need to get outside the comfort zone, and remove themselves from the next gm process... will they? ehhh doubtful.
no one is defending DG or saying he should keep his job
But to say everything else is "whatever" (not even sure what that means) is bullshit. It certainly isn't "whatever"
Chris Mara has been high on some big hits.... and high on some misses... just like most scouts and personnel people.
the GM owns the process- the final pick- and the structure of cap and players.
do you know the guys he was high on? the good ones? the ones that helped win SBs? do you know outside of davis fking webb... who he was high on that didnt work out (a 3rd rounder at that)
waste of time- fid the gm higher- and u fix the team.
lol
What role is he sharing?
"Some might view the Giants as having three GMs: the Mara brothers and Gettleman. "
Its probably up to 4 now with Nephew Timmy climbing the ranks
Yes this quote gets posted a lot - but until someone else posts a source saying the Maras are hands off, I'll trust this source.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 15485280 Del Shofner said:
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In comment 15485197 JonC said:
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their talent evaluation and personnel decisions began to decline in 2011 when he stepped into this leadership role.
Good luck proving it or getting them to boot a family member.
This.
To those who say it's all Gettleman, I then ask whether C. Mara's and McDonnell's jobs are figurehead or no-show jobs, in which case that's a different problem. Best I can tell it's by committee, and the committee isn't doing a good job. But as Jon says, good luck getting them to boot a family member. I think the best we can hope for is that they hire a strong and capable GM *and* give him more authority.
Yes, a committee of a few guys but the GM drives.
No, they aren't doing a good job especially the guy driving.
A GM that is a strong talent evaluator and runs a good process will do fine. And he doesn't need any more authority than already given.
The problem is, any GM relies on scouting reports. And the scouts report to Chris Mara, not the GM.
The scouts report to Chris Pettit, Director of College Scouting.
The same Chris Pettit who has come out in front of the media, sat next to Gettleman and discussed their process.
not Chris Mara...
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In comment 15485534 hitdog42 said:
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Dave Gettleman runs the personnel--- not someone who is not named the GM.
stop looking for things to blame to maybe almost feel better about things.
the GM sucks- his signings suck- his drafts are pretty meh-- and his hirings suck.
period- end of story. everything else is whatever.
now if you want to blame the hiring of gettleman on the maras.... then that i am perfectly happy to jump on board with-- the process and hiring was pathetic- and they need to get outside the comfort zone, and remove themselves from the next gm process... will they? ehhh doubtful.
no one is defending DG or saying he should keep his job
But to say everything else is "whatever" (not even sure what that means) is bullshit. It certainly isn't "whatever"
Chris Mara has been high on some big hits.... and high on some misses... just like most scouts and personnel people.
the GM owns the process- the final pick- and the structure of cap and players.
do you know the guys he was high on? the good ones? the ones that helped win SBs? do you know outside of davis fking webb... who he was high on that didnt work out (a 3rd rounder at that)
waste of time- fid the gm higher- and u fix the team.
why don't you educate us mr insider...
Seriously, not being snarky. What good picks was he behind?
I remember when Kate brought Ahmad Bradshaw to his attention, what other anecdotes are out there?
He's in the band, but his mic and keyboards aren't plugged in.
I've heard enough from Accorsi over the years that the GM has immense decision making powers.
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The GM puts together the process of building the roster and the new additions each year in free agency and draft. He is the one driving and garnering input along the way, probably more from some.
What role is he sharing?
"Some might view the Giants as having three GMs: the Mara brothers and Gettleman. "
Its probably up to 4 now with Nephew Timmy climbing the ranks
Yes this quote gets posted a lot - but until someone else posts a source saying the Maras are hands off, I'll trust this source. Link - ( New Window )
They have one GM. The Mara's are Front Office people too and get involved, no one is disputing it. They are in the car...listening to the process and the recommendations, and probably providing some feedback and input.
But the GM is driving.
Find a better driver and things will work out...
He's in the band, but his mic and keyboards aren't plugged in.
I've heard enough from Accorsi over the years that the GM has immense decision making powers.
What constitutes actual evidence?
You need a video of him phoning in the pick to the league?
Did anyone ever lose sleep over the Maras interfering when Reese and Coughlin were running things?
So then my advice is find a new team to root for, or live with it.
And I will go on thinking you are wrong, and that a competent GM that is a good evaluator of talent will ultimately fix this team...
Did anyone ever lose sleep over the Maras interfering when Reese and Coughlin were running things?
If You’re willing to go back a little further in time, yes people were very worried.
In fact one brother had to wrestle personal management away from the other brother.
If You’re willing to go back a little further in time, yes people were very worried.
In fact one brother had to wrestle personal management away from the other brother.
I don’t think the Maras and Tisch are in a power struggle — they seem all relatively on the same page.
As was with Young, Accorsi, and early Reese - when the GMs do well we don’t hear much about interference.
So then my advice is find a new team to root for, or live with it.
And I will go on thinking you are wrong, and that a competent GM that is a good evaluator of talent will ultimately fix this team...
What if they hire an unqualified insider like Abrams? Will that change your thinking at all?