Anyone that sells Mara they can fix this earlier is just lying. For this to be fixed. They need to consult other football guys to hire the right GM. Then the GM needs to build his own coaching staff.
Then a complete roster overhaul. The only keepers I see are Thomas/McKinney and any draft selection from the past years class. Also probably Leonard Williams due to his ridiculous contract.
Gettleman has left this team with no flexibility next year. We have so much dead cap on the books we will be awful next year too. So bite the bullet clean the roster of bad contracts.
See if you can find trades for Barkley/Galladay/Shepard/Lawerence/Ryan/Bradberry/Jackson
any vet with any sort of value find a trade for more draft capital.
2022-23 season will be all development and use the draft to build out your offensive line and defense (especially guys that can get to the QB). Don't force a QB pick next year.
Let Daniel Jones play out next year. If he again doesn't show any signs we will be bad enough to select another QB in the 2023 draft but at least the rookie QB will be behind a hopefully rebuilt offensive line and we will be out of cap hell to provide the new GM and Coach to build out the roster they want.
2023-24 hopefully we start showing signs.
2024-25 is probably the first year we can realistically get back into the playoffs.
best case scenario we win a playoff game in 2023 and are in competition in 2024
1989: new QB, new HC, went 1-15
1990: 7-9
1991: 11-5, 2nd in NFC East, lost in the divisional round
1992: 13-3, 1st in NFC East, won the Superbowl
We need the right HC and QB and need to build the lines.
I don't know where we are on this timeline, but worst case next year is 1989. Best case it's 1991.
Putting aside the million draft picks and top young players they got, are you really comparing Judge/ Jones to Aikman/ Johnson?
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In comment 15485245 Go Terps said:
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Cutting bait would have been forward thinking.
Sure would have been.
Almost no NFL would have, though.
Maybe your fantasy league would, but that's a different game.
Arizona cut bait with Rosen. Now they have the best record in the league.
Let's not act like it's a crazy idea.
The Arizona situation was pretty unique. They brought in a coach after Rosen’s rookie year that ran a very specific type of offense that Rosen was not capable of running. Murray just happened to be there and the stars aligned. If Kingsbury wasn’t hired that year Rosen would have been given at least one more year under center.
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In comment 15485252 BillKo said:
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In comment 15485245 Go Terps said:
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Cutting bait would have been forward thinking.
Sure would have been.
Almost no NFL would have, though.
Maybe your fantasy league would, but that's a different game.
Arizona cut bait with Rosen. Now they have the best record in the league.
Let's not act like it's a crazy idea.
The Arizona situation was pretty unique. They brought in a coach after Rosen’s rookie year that ran a very specific type of offense that Rosen was not capable of running. Murray just happened to be there and the stars aligned. If Kingsbury wasn’t hired that year Rosen would have been given at least one more year under center.
So? Maybe what they did should be a norm, not an outlier.
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We have seen quick turnarounds by inferior teams. It doesn't mean we will manage a very quick turnaround but it something every NFL team has a responsibility to their fans to try.
This idea that we can't build without have an amazing OL first is insanity. A lot of good teams have problematic OLs. It doesn't take much to be competitive.
The first thing you have to acknowledge, the most important thing to acknowledge in fact, is when you don't have a QB. We spent years trying to *evaluate* Jones. What a fucking sinkhole that became. The top brass couldn't be honest with themselves and say it was a botched pick, so we tripled down on him and brought in no real competition. If you want to know the main reason the Giants stink, it's the culture that says we can't be honest about our players because we would look bad if we admitted we botched the pick, or too limited to do something daring like draft Herbert too.
So put a rookie QB behind this shitty line and a group of skill positions players that never can stay on the field?
Yeah that should workout great....
+1. That's my thinking also, not that it matters.
We have been saying 2-3 years now for almost a decade...
Exactly. I think many fans forget how long it took Eli to round into form. Trust me, I’m not comparing Jones to Eli by any means, but Eli was not great in 2004, 2005, or 2006. He had a significantly better line, a better group of skill players, and a better defense. He turned a corner in the last 2/3 plus the playoffs obviously in 2007.
Not all QB’s enter the league and play fantastic in their first couple of years. If your litmus test is one to two seasons you’ll be drafting a lot of early round QB’s. Should the Jags dump Lawrence after this season? He has looked pretty crappy so far, but it doesn’t mean he sucks.
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for the Giants to cut bait on Jones after 1 year. He was decent enough as a rookie and Herbert had some questions. If it was for a Lawrence level prospect, yeah possible. But nobody was doing that for Herbert.
Exactly. I think many fans forget how long it took Eli to round into form. Trust me, I’m not comparing Jones to Eli by any means, but Eli was not great in 2004, 2005, or 2006. He had a significantly better line, a better group of skill players, and a better defense. He turned a corner in the last 2/3 plus the playoffs obviously in 2007.
Not all QB’s enter the league and play fantastic in their first couple of years. If your litmus test is one to two seasons you’ll be drafting a lot of early round QB’s. Should the Jags dump Lawrence after this season? He has looked pretty crappy so far, but it doesn’t mean he sucks.
Guys like Eli, and guys like Lawrence come with a pedigree. These guys were nearly unanimous first overall pick prospects pre-draft, with tons of college tape suggesting a bright future. Jones had nowhere near that type of pedigree coming out, completely different situation evaluating prospects like Eli/Lawrence vs a guy like Jones who many scouting reports didn't like.
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In comment 15485875 Jerry in_DC said:
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for the Giants to cut bait on Jones after 1 year. He was decent enough as a rookie and Herbert had some questions. If it was for a Lawrence level prospect, yeah possible. But nobody was doing that for Herbert.
Exactly. I think many fans forget how long it took Eli to round into form. Trust me, I’m not comparing Jones to Eli by any means, but Eli was not great in 2004, 2005, or 2006. He had a significantly better line, a better group of skill players, and a better defense. He turned a corner in the last 2/3 plus the playoffs obviously in 2007.
Not all QB’s enter the league and play fantastic in their first couple of years. If your litmus test is one to two seasons you’ll be drafting a lot of early round QB’s. Should the Jags dump Lawrence after this season? He has looked pretty crappy so far, but it doesn’t mean he sucks.
Guys like Eli, and guys like Lawrence come with a pedigree. These guys were nearly unanimous first overall pick prospects pre-draft, with tons of college tape suggesting a bright future. Jones had nowhere near that type of pedigree coming out, completely different situation evaluating prospects like Eli/Lawrence vs a guy like Jones who many scouting reports didn't like.
As I said in my post, not comparing Jones to Eli by any means. If you read some of the comments above posters believe you should just dump a QB after a year or two if you don’t like the early results. Eli is just an example of a high pedigree QB that took a while to develop. It’s not uncommon. But expecting rookie QB’s to come in and look great like Herbert is unrealistic.
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In comment 15485976 eric2425ny said:
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In comment 15485875 Jerry in_DC said:
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for the Giants to cut bait on Jones after 1 year. He was decent enough as a rookie and Herbert had some questions. If it was for a Lawrence level prospect, yeah possible. But nobody was doing that for Herbert.
Exactly. I think many fans forget how long it took Eli to round into form. Trust me, I’m not comparing Jones to Eli by any means, but Eli was not great in 2004, 2005, or 2006. He had a significantly better line, a better group of skill players, and a better defense. He turned a corner in the last 2/3 plus the playoffs obviously in 2007.
Not all QB’s enter the league and play fantastic in their first couple of years. If your litmus test is one to two seasons you’ll be drafting a lot of early round QB’s. Should the Jags dump Lawrence after this season? He has looked pretty crappy so far, but it doesn’t mean he sucks.
Guys like Eli, and guys like Lawrence come with a pedigree. These guys were nearly unanimous first overall pick prospects pre-draft, with tons of college tape suggesting a bright future. Jones had nowhere near that type of pedigree coming out, completely different situation evaluating prospects like Eli/Lawrence vs a guy like Jones who many scouting reports didn't like.
As I said in my post, not comparing Jones to Eli by any means. If you read some of the comments above posters believe you should just dump a QB after a year or two if you don’t like the early results. Eli is just an example of a high pedigree QB that took a while to develop. It’s not uncommon. But expecting rookie QB’s to come in and look great like Herbert is unrealistic.
The economics are different now with the option year and needing to be picked up after year 3. Eli signed what a 7 year rookie contract?
In today's NFL 1rd QBs are going to be getting 3 years to prove they're it. Maybe 4.
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In comment 15485285 Go Terps said:
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Currently there are only two players on the roster that were here in 2017 (Shepard and Engram...and neither should have been on the team this year).
I'd aim for similar turnover - 100% in 3-4 years. Trade whatever you can - the guys on rookie contracts should have some value. Start there.
So this is weird, you think this team could be 10-7 with a much better offense (obviously) but you want to trade away the entire team.
Wouldn't it make more sense to continue to build the D while making a concerted effort to build the OL and find a QB?
What's with the complete tear down and jettisoning what could be useful players in 2022?
There is no making the offense much better in one offseason. It needs a complete reconstruction - one that will take place under a new GM and possibly a new coaching staff.
This is a bottom 5 NFL roster, and there is no arrow pointing up. They should strip it down for draft picks and cap space at every opportunity. I'd start with the players on rookie contracts who were drafted by this incompetent regime.
I'd argue bottom 1 with the untradeable assets, poorly thought out roster, and horrible cap.
GoTerps - name one team that you wouldn't exchange our roster, picks, and cap situation with. I can't.
An improved OL and an edge can do wonders for this team.
I don't think mass tear down/rebuild is the way to go. Draft acquisition numbers are limited, so the bulk of the rebuild would have to come in FA in that scenario. There simply isn't enough quality FA available. This is the route DG went, completely tossing all the roster in a year or two. He brought in a lot of JAGs to replace JAGs and tried to do too much, too fast, while going all in on winning with Eli, swinging for the fences way too much.
Limit this year to focusing on the draft, bring in some moderate cost lunch pail FA, and work on a rational plan for getting out of the huge contracts. Trade players in a rational fashion, not trade anyone with a pulse like DG did.
Shep needs to go. I would ride with Jones and Barkley.
This is predicated on wanting improvement in 2022. Not talking swinging for the fences. I'm not sure many of us can stomach a tank year - we can't bear a loss now when it is fully predicted/expected - so moves should be made with an eye toward gradual, sustainable, improvement. But, tankathon, blow this motherfucker beach whale to smithereens, is an option. This adds a year to a rational rebuild.