Most head coaches fail and typically about 20% of the league turns over coaches every year. Mara could be looking at his 4th head coach hire in 6 years. The problem with losing, it’s easy to get in the recycle HC’s every 2 years loop.
Assuming a GM from the outside is hired with a new HC, at some point there needs to be real patience. There is a good chance whoever the next coach is will have a similar record to Judge after 28 games, 10-18. Can’t just keep firing these guys every 2 seasons.
I might be missing some, but here are the potential candidates:
Sean Payton (doubtful)
Mike Tomlin (doubtful)
Doug Pederson
Those are the SB winning coaches. I doubt Payton & Tomlin would be available, but they could look for a change of scenery. Everyone else:
Mike Zimmer (maybe available)
Brian Daboll
Wink Martindale
Greg Roman
Eric Bieniemy
Josh McDaniels
Kellen Moore
Vance Joseph
Raheem Morris
Todd Bowles
Byron Leftwich
I’m missing some names. But, who would you hire to be the next NYG coach for hopefully the next 7 plus years if Judge is gone?
With Roman's offense you can target particular types of quarterbacks, offensive linemen, and skill players that may allow the Giants to zig when others zag from a personnel perspective.
Martindale's blitz heavy scheme might work well with the quality we have in the back seven.
Personally I love running football and how the Ravens play offense. So selfishly I'd love to see Roman's offense executed by a mobile quarterback like Willis or Malik Cunningham.
With Roman's offense you can target particular types of quarterbacks, offensive linemen, and skill players that may allow the Giants to zig when others zag from a personnel perspective.
Martindale's blitz heavy scheme might work well with the quality we have in the back seven.
Personally I love running football and how the Ravens play offense. So selfishly I'd love to see Roman's offense executed by a mobile quarterback like Willis or Malik Cunningham.
My concern with Roman is that his schemes without the right QB have been as terrible as they are ingenious when he has the right one. With Martindale he has been in the league nearly 20 years and has coached successful position units and defenses, but has not really gotten looks for HC. Why? Are there questions about how he can lead an entire team? Some great coordinators could not take the next step because they get so wrapped up in their side of the ball.
But Judge will be here next year like it or not. I dont see how he’s gone, which if they bring in a new GM which they will, is the wrong move. But such is John Mara.
Kidding. Well, half kidding. Like 38% kidding.
But Judge will be here next year like it or not. I dont see how he’s gone, which if they bring in a new GM which they will, is the wrong move. But such is John Mara.
I don’t think the problem is lack of head coaching experience with Judge, but that he is by his nature too conservative for today’s game. Not because of his bloodlines, but San Diego OC Joe Lombardi is intriguing for me. Coached under both offensive and defensive coaches which is important to me.
Jon
pjcas18 : 8:56 pm : link : reply
Gruden
I just hope someone hires Bienemy
j_rud : 9:00 pm : link : reply
so we don't have to go through another round of the talking heads pontificating on race relations.
Kidding. Well, half kidding. Like 38% kidding.
only took one thread and back to back comments to remind me why these shit fans deserve this shit team
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Jon
pjcas18 : 8:56 pm : link : reply
Gruden
I just hope someone hires Bienemy
j_rud : 9:00 pm : link : reply
so we don't have to go through another round of the talking heads pontificating on race relations.
Kidding. Well, half kidding. Like 38% kidding.
only took one thread and back to back comments to remind me why these shit fans deserve this shit team
it was a joke, you non-spelling douche bag
I lol'd.
Agreed. Same can be said for Bieniemy, he's been arrested a handful of times and has abused women. No thanks
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Gruden
I lol'd.
i thought it was funny. some people are sensitive I guess.
We don’t know how much of that was dictated from upstairs. We do know that he’s a super bowl winning coach with balls and is a creative play caller.
Ageed
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In comment 15486036 pjcas18 said:
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Gruden
I lol'd.
i thought it was funny. some people are sensitive I guess.
The same soft headed fools butt hurt by Gruden are the same people who wanna sighn players with actual history of criminal behavior.
asshole, but would put points on the board
Kidding. Well, half kidding. Like 38% kidding.
It's a garbage racist rule and should be changed... Or they should reward teams for signing players that are white, Latino and Asian etc. They could require each team to add more players that aren't black. But I'm gonna guess that somehow that would be racism in the eyes of some.
Got his ass kicked as a head coach, and went right back to work and succeeded.
He’s got a good pelt on the wall, and showed strong resilience.
He’s the kind of guy I think Mara will actually respect.
Got his ass kicked as a head coach, and went right back to work and succeeded.
He’s got a good pelt on the wall, and showed strong resilience.
He’s the kind of guy I think Mara will actually respect.
Went 24-40 with the Jets which included a 10-6 season. Not a good overall record, not unlike McAdoo who went 11-5 in year 1 and then struggled.
Sure, but unlike Mcadoo, he went back to work and won a ring.
If they are going give a guy a 2nd chance, I want a guy who succeeded when he got knocked down a notch.
Others for me: Todd Downing, OC, Titans and Matt Eberflus, DC, Colts. Eberflus can flat out coach a D.
I'd be okay with a Roman or Martindale.
Probably all moot, anyway. I think Judge stays for another year.
The special teams angle looks silly in retrospect.
Others for me: Todd Downing, OC, Titans and Matt Eberflus, DC, Colts. Eberflus can flat out coach a D.
I'm not even sure Leftwich is calling the plays in TB. Between Ariana and Brady...what is Leftwich adding?
A person that has set up a winning franchise for a decade plus and wasn’t successful solely due to his coordinators or raw talent on the team. This eliminates a Brian Billick type.
I want a Cowher type. I know he only got one ring but his teams always competed. Even when they had shit for QB. He got to two bowls and won one. And he was around for over a decade. And always competed.
A person that has set up a winning franchise for a decade plus and wasn’t successful solely due to his coordinators or raw talent on the team. This eliminates a Brian Billick type.
I want a Cowher type. I know he only got one ring but his teams always competed. Even when they had shit for QB. He got to two bowls and won one. And he was around for over a decade. And always competed.
Sean Payton. Would you trade draft picks for him if needed?
I’m fine with it, but another Pats guy would be a tough sell coming off Judge.
Moore will be the sudden heir when Dallas falters and Mike McC is fired.
Leftwich has done well working his way up through different systems and is a viable candidate.
Not sure Bienemy isn’t comfortable in KC.
Roman will be 50, a NJ guy, and an Asst HC experience in SF. Might be the right age, and experience level of a near HC, and the best fit from the list.
Not touting him at all, just running with the list.
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and I would definitely look at both coordinators for the Ravens.
Others for me: Todd Downing, OC, Titans and Matt Eberflus, DC, Colts. Eberflus can flat out coach a D.
I'm not even sure Leftwich is calling the plays in TB. Between Ariana and Brady...what is Leftwich adding?
Well, Brady certainly has carte blanche to change plays. Why wouldn't he, right?
But this is Leftwich's offense and he runs the offensive meetings. Arians has basically said as much.
Hell, before Brady got there, Tampa was top five in the league in scoring with Winston at the helm.
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In comment 15486036 pjcas18 said:
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Gruden
I lol'd.
i thought it was funny. some people are sensitive I guess.
Yup, they're called pussies.
Anyway, in response to the OP, it ain't gonna happen, so really not worth talking about.
Everyone should be happy to hope that a good coach like Judge will get a competent GM soon (hopefully), to draft a good QB.
not as a HC but whoever comes in should consider it to keep continuity on at least that side of the ball.
He must learn and practice being a HC
He coached the Cards offense in 2018 as their OC, finished 32nd in both points and yards.
It's great he rebounded out of that hole. However, that offensive system is Arians. He had top ones everywhere he's been.
With Roman's offense you can target particular types of quarterbacks, offensive linemen, and skill players that may allow the Giants to zig when others zag from a personnel perspective.
Martindale's blitz heavy scheme might work well with the quality we have in the back seven.
Personally I love running football and how the Ravens play offense. So selfishly I'd love to see Roman's offense executed by a mobile quarterback like Willis or Malik Cunningham.
Why don't you just become a Ravens fan and be done with it. That style of football sucks in my view. It is for people who don't understand the strategy element of the game. For every one of his MNF performances against the colts there's a Goff driving down the field throwing TDs in the final minute of a game
A good coach five years ago might be a bad coach today. And Visa versa. A personal life can factor in, and then the human factor always confounding the prognosticator.
External circumstances: including injuries that a coach doesn't control as well as personnel choices go along way to contribute to a coaches competency.
Mara played a hunch last time, apparently it didn't work out, but it's never that unclear.
Judge and DJ one more year but I think Judge better think long and hard how he can get DJ an offense that he can thrive in!
Daboll is getting a ton of criticism right now, McDermott was critical of him in the post game presser the other day.
Both work excellent together and they have turned the franchise around. And Beane was hired after, there is no rule that GM needs to be hired before the HC.
Gettleman is gone, probably was regardless but at 4-8 it’s a no brainer.
The Jones neck injury is the new development that has me convinced the Giants will make a move to either replace him or at the very least make things very uncomfortable for him with stiff competition. I’m thinking either they make use of these additional draft picks for a QB they like, or they sniff around Russell Wilson.
I expect Judge back with a new GM and the QB depth chart looking very different than it has.
Just my take.
Gettleman is gone, probably was regardless but at 4-8 it’s a no brainer.
The Jones neck injury is the new development that has me convinced the Giants will make a move to either replace him or at the very least make things very uncomfortable for him with stiff competition. I’m thinking either they make use of these additional draft picks for a QB they like, or they sniff around Russell Wilson.
I expect Judge back with a new GM and the QB depth chart looking very different than it has.
Just my take.
Most likely imo. I’m curious what the offensive staff would look like. Personally, I don’t love the idea of retaining a coach but forcing an entire new offensive staff. Just change the entire staff at that point. I don’t like patchwork fixes.
I know right now the target is on Judge's back but flipping another coach without improving the organization isn't going to do a whole lot.
Will there be a critical assessment of the front office scouting operation and how players are identified for development? We seem to have constant misses at key positions in how the NFL moves today (LBs are not devalued, their positional fit and talent profile has just changed from where it was 15-20, nevermind 25-30 yrs ago). OL, much the same.
Why so many injuries? Do we need to take a hard look at our conditioning/medical teams again? I know the NFL has really pushed a player safety perspective and Giants are sure to toe that line ethically with being cautious, but it never hurts to look over all facets of your operation in depth, than just check-box quickly a continuation in one area from year to year.
If we move on from Judge, I want the entire football ops overhauled. Start at the top with empowering a critically skilled and forward thinking executive who can make the decisions needed off the field that will impact how they play on (how they need to scout, profile, draft, coordinate with player development, self-scout, gameplan, condition, adjust).
And a hard assessment on the "old guard" draftees has to be done. Don't just waste a season. If it makes sense to overhaul immediately, do it.
He is an unbelievable winner and turnaround artist
Failing that-
Lou Saban GN/HC combined
dont give me the crap about he failed in miami
Carroll and Belechik both failed with the Jets and Cleveland
Carroll with NE too
He's built an offense around an elite running QB, and for the most part that offense still plays second fiddle to their defense.
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is even allowed on the grounds, I'm done with this fucking organization.
those were private emails to a buddy
gruden loves to joke around
sure he was out of line BUT
let he who has not sinned throw the 1st stone
when did we ban allowing people to apologize and move on
Personally I think we as a nation are getting wayyyyy to sensitive. They want to ban black friday now good grief
whos next- santa claus? the tooth fairy?
Agreed. Same can be said for Bieniemy, he's been arrested a handful of times and has abused women. No thanks
He's built an offense around an elite running QB, and for the most part that offense still plays second fiddle to their defense.
Martindale is the guy I'd look at. Supposedly he had good interview with Giants when they went with Judge.
I think the chances of McDaniels becoming the Giants coach are about the same as you or me.
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I'd be careful. Ravens fans aren't really a big fan of his, and wouldn't be broken up if he left. His playcalling is often sketchy.
He's built an offense around an elite running QB, and for the most part that offense still plays second fiddle to their defense.
Martindale is the guy I'd look at. Supposedly he had good interview with Giants when they went with Judge.
He's a good coach, but something to keep in mind is he's always had good personnel to work with. The Ravens are a defense first organization and the spending goes accordingly. I am very curious what they will sacrifice to re-sign Lamar.
Who the !@#$ would want Gruden as NYG coach?
Every Giants fan agrees that this organization is dysfunctional.
Now, you want to add that media powder keg to the mix?
Kellen Moore is a brilliant offensive mind and I would love to steal him from the Cowboys.
He is an unbelievable winner and turnaround artist
Failing that-
Lou Saban GN/HC combined
dont give me the crap about he failed in miami
Carroll and Belechik both failed with the Jets and Cleveland
Carroll with NE too
Caroll did not "fail" in NE. He had lower level of production than Bill Parcells -- a pretty tall order. His worst record was 8-8 and won in the playoffs. You are telling me you would not be as happy as a pig in mud at .500 and in the playoffs instead of Joey Timeouts?
2. Nobody knows who will make a good head coach.. not even football professionals. If they did, the guy would already be a head coach in the league.
There were a few names tossed for coaches whose jobs are already secure. If you want to attract a seasoned head coach, then we need to fix the bullshit at the top of the organization.
Everyone can see what a problem John Mara is. Who wants to come here to deal with that shit, plus a horrible roster, no OL, no QB, etc. Only someone who just wants to be a head coach and is "happy to be here". I think I just named our last three head coaching hires.
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I’ve been begging for him the past couple of hires and I’m still convinced he would be a great hire. Josh McDaniels.
I think the chances of McDaniels becoming the Giants coach are about the same as you or me.
I have you 4th on the list after:
Belichick
Gruden
Eli
BrettNYG10
I could see Mara liking Bowles. He's a local guy, experienced, not bombastic. And to be fair, he was left to play with the mess that Rex left behind- and it was a huge mess bc Rex stuck around for 5 years and Woody let him run the team. Bowles had to come down from Geno, for whom Rex reached in the second round (and promptly got his jaw busted in the locker room), and then he had to transition to overrated and overdrafted Darnold on the way out.
He's built an offense around an elite running QB, and for the most part that offense still plays second fiddle to their defense.
He was OC with 49ers too. He has produced good offenses despite less than impressive passers.
No more list of finalists where at least 2 of them are Patriot coaches.
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I'd be careful. Ravens fans aren't really a big fan of his, and wouldn't be broken up if he left. His playcalling is often sketchy.
He's built an offense around an elite running QB, and for the most part that offense still plays second fiddle to their defense.
He was OC with 49ers too. He has produced good offenses despite less than impressive passers.
He exceeded expectations when he had mobile QB like Tyrod Taylor, Colin Kaepernick, and Lamar Jackson. When he was stuck with pure pocket passers his offenses struggled mightily. Some teams were successful, but that was because of league leading defenses. You watch SF with Alex Smith at QB they were doing nothing on offense, but the D was tremendous. If you were going with someone like Mariota as a stopgap to Ridder or Willis then someone like Roman might work, but it is a concern that he needs a very specific type of QB.
He's built an offense around an elite running QB, and for the most part that offense still plays second fiddle to their defense.
The Ravens have been devastated by injures on offense this year. Which, IMV, is why their offense has been so inconsistent. They have not been able to find any rhythm in either the running game or passing game. So I'm not sure this is the best year to evaluate Roman.
And now with all of the injuries mounting on defense - Humphrey is now gone for the year, joining Marcus Peters...so the have lost their two corners - I think the Ravens are at risk of actually missing the playoffs.
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so we don't have to go through another round of the talking heads pontificating on race relations.
Kidding. Well, half kidding. Like 38% kidding.
It's a garbage racist rule and should be changed... Or they should reward teams for signing players that are white, Latino and Asian etc. They could require each team to add more players that aren't black. But I'm gonna guess that somehow that would be racism in the eyes of some.
Hilarious.
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In comment 15486364 islander1 said:
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I'd be careful. Ravens fans aren't really a big fan of his, and wouldn't be broken up if he left. His playcalling is often sketchy.
He's built an offense around an elite running QB, and for the most part that offense still plays second fiddle to their defense.
He was OC with 49ers too. He has produced good offenses despite less than impressive passers.
He exceeded expectations when he had mobile QB like Tyrod Taylor, Colin Kaepernick, and Lamar Jackson. When he was stuck with pure pocket passers his offenses struggled mightily. Some teams were successful, but that was because of league leading defenses. You watch SF with Alex Smith at QB they were doing nothing on offense, but the D was tremendous. If you were going with someone like Mariota as a stopgap to Ridder or Willis then someone like Roman might work, but it is a concern that he needs a very specific type of QB.
That's the point. So go and get that type of quarterback. They're easy to find - college is producing tons of them.
kept JAX competitive after for a long run after Tom C
and got a raw deal at OAK.
he's the DC at WFT and they're overcoming injuries well.
Got his ass kicked as a head coach, and went right back to work and succeeded.
He’s got a good pelt on the wall, and showed strong resilience.
He’s the kind of guy I think Mara will actually respect.
I don't know...we basically said the same thing about Shurmur.
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In comment 15486174 Danny Kanell said:
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I’ve been begging for him the past couple of hires and I’m still convinced he would be a great hire. Josh McDaniels.
I think the chances of McDaniels becoming the Giants coach are about the same as you or me.
I have you 4th on the list after:
Belichick
Gruden
Eli
BrettNYG10
I'm not sure if Mara can afford me.
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In comment 15486445 Toth029 said:
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In comment 15486364 islander1 said:
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I'd be careful. Ravens fans aren't really a big fan of his, and wouldn't be broken up if he left. His playcalling is often sketchy.
He's built an offense around an elite running QB, and for the most part that offense still plays second fiddle to their defense.
He was OC with 49ers too. He has produced good offenses despite less than impressive passers.
He exceeded expectations when he had mobile QB like Tyrod Taylor, Colin Kaepernick, and Lamar Jackson. When he was stuck with pure pocket passers his offenses struggled mightily. Some teams were successful, but that was because of league leading defenses. You watch SF with Alex Smith at QB they were doing nothing on offense, but the D was tremendous. If you were going with someone like Mariota as a stopgap to Ridder or Willis then someone like Roman might work, but it is a concern that he needs a very specific type of QB.
That's the point. So go and get that type of quarterback. They're easy to find - college is producing tons of them.
If they are so easy to find and colleges are producing tons of them, why do so many teams need a QB? My issue is that personnel will not always be healthy and you will have holdover contracts that you won't be able to get out of so I would prefer someone who is more flexible in terms of what is needed in order to have success.
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I'd be careful. Ravens fans aren't really a big fan of his, and wouldn't be broken up if he left. His playcalling is often sketchy.
He's built an offense around an elite running QB, and for the most part that offense still plays second fiddle to their defense.
The Ravens have been devastated by injures on offense this year. Which, IMV, is why their offense has been so inconsistent. They have not been able to find any rhythm in either the running game or passing game. So I'm not sure this is the best year to evaluate Roman.
And now with all of the injuries mounting on defense - Humphrey is now gone for the year, joining Marcus Peters...so the have lost their two corners - I think the Ravens are at risk of actually missing the playoffs.
The Ravens are in the same IR/injury boat as the Giants. Except they are built well. Living here and watching as many of their games (since my kid is a fan) to me that's the difference between 4-8 and 8-4.
They'll make the playoffs and get bounced. Local fans will once again rip Lamar for things out of his control, and the beat will go on around here.