You can call it a scholarship... but he's the 6th overall pick and a QB, that's an investment (and I'd still hedge my bets and draft a QB on day 2) but I think you have to give him a fourth year. And if he doesn't make the playoffs, you move on.
Build up the line in the draft. Try to get some pass rushers. But this isn't the draft to go after a QB in the top ten. I'd rather gamble on Jones putting it together than using a top ten pick on one of these kids coming out especially when our line is 1/5 of the way built.
Obtain pieces along the oline, edge and LB corp. Let 22’ ride and move on from there. Give the next guy what he needs to succeed, but Jones isn’t it
Use the extra picks to fix the OL so WHOEVER's back there has a fighting chance. You trade them away for Russell Wilson, and then it's Russell Wilson's running for his life, sucking, and and getting hurt behind the same shitty OL that plagued Jones and Eli.
You never know. Get it fixed and Jones might be pretty good. Or at least good enough to hold down the fort for a while.
If this was the 2020 QB class and Herbert, Tua, and Burrow were all going top 5... he wouldn't be coming back.
The way I feel about this whole mess is, even though 10 different people will give you 10 different plans/priorities/strategies how to attack this thing, none of them are objectively wrong.
Unless you think we should draft a RB at 5. Then youre a fucking imbecile.
Whoever is running the draft should draft a qb in any round that they see value, and we should upgrade the back up.
Building up the line, and more importantly installing a functioning offensive system, with, ideally, a very good play caller are 2 moves that will benifit the team regardless of qb in 22 and beyond.
I personally don't love the idea of giving up the farm for one of the big names rumored to be available this off season, but that's not my call. If they do trade for one of those guys you have to trade jones and recoup. I think this is short sighted and unlikely to make the team a true contender...short or long term.
The way I feel about this whole mess is, even though 10 different people will give you 10 different plans/priorities/strategies how to attack this thing, none of them are objectively wrong.
Unless you think we should draft a RB at 5. Then youre a fucking imbecile.
Respectfully, for a team that needs like 7 fresh talented offensive linemen added to this roster, I can't see how you could make the conscious decision to spend your incredibly limited resources on a QB.
Its wrong....but too many here have their minds made up on Jones and want change no matter what, no matter how dumb that is from a roster building perspective.
I tend to think thats the rationale that will be applied.
- Jones is handed the starting job
- Jones performs poorly, offense struggles
- Mariota comes in after the wheels come off
- Giants finish season with losing record
- Both Jones and Mariota walk after season
Giants end 2022 nowhere at quarterback.
How is that good roster building and asset allocation?
- Jones is handed the starting job
- Jones performs poorly, offense struggles
- Mariota comes in after the wheels come off
- Giants finish season with losing record
- Both Jones and Mariota walk after season
Giants end 2022 nowhere at quarterback.
How is that good roster building and asset allocation?
Why? Let Jones play every game and lose as many as possible. Be in position to get the best QB in the 2023 draft. 6-8 wins next year is pointless. If you're going to suck, and the Giants are gonna suck again...do it right.
They actually need three O-Linemen and a real Edge Rusher to start
However, I haven't heard anything that makes me think this year's QB class likely holds the answer.
So, I would envision a QB drafted means wasting resources and getting no closer to solving the position.
You could trade him (if possible) or relegate him to backup, while bringing in a cast off vet, and end 2022 realizing why that QB was available.
You could throw a lot of assets into a trade for any available decent vet, and then end 2022 realizing why the vet was available AND not filling in other holes with those assets.
Bottom line: it's a shitty year to want a QB. Don't replace Jones out of desperation, because the alternatives likely are no better, or could be worse.
You can't sit around and wait for the right QB draft. Forecasting out to 2023 is impossible.
If you like one of the quarterbacks (Judge is rumored to feel strongly about Pickett), then draft him and play him from the outset. Regardless of how good he is or isn't as a rookie we will still be able to draft another if desirable in 2023.
Some people talk like drafting one quarterback eats up an entire draft. We'll have other picks in the 2022 draft. If we're smart and trade players currently on the roster (including Jones) we'll have many picks.
The Daniel Jones experience has been so shitty that everyone is afraid of repeating it. I get that. But what those people aren't seeing is that the sin was less in drafting Jones than it was in sticking with him when it was clear we missed on him. That was the error, and it doesn't need to be repeated with the next QB we draft - whenever that takes place.
You guys don't want to add Russell Wilson, a HOFer but you want to watch Daniel Jones one more season. Sorry, you're as dumb as this front office
Is he? Source for this rumor is one BS twitter account afaik.
We're basically hedged, if he continues to be a turnover machine we can just draft a QB in 23, that draft class is going to be loaded
You can't sit around and wait for the right QB draft. Forecasting out to 2023 is impossible.
If you like one of the quarterbacks (Judge is rumored to feel strongly about Pickett), then draft him and play him from the outset. Regardless of how good he is or isn't as a rookie we will still be able to draft another if desirable in 2023.
Some people talk like drafting one quarterback eats up an entire draft. We'll have other picks in the 2022 draft. If we're smart and trade players currently on the roster (including Jones) we'll have many picks.
The Daniel Jones experience has been so shitty that everyone is afraid of repeating it. I get that. But what those people aren't seeing is that the sin was less in drafting Jones than it was in sticking with him when it was clear we missed on him. That was the error, and it doesn't need to be repeated with the next QB we draft - whenever that takes place.
How many players get dealt for 1st Round picks? You will never recoup the cost to go back to back 1st Round QB. Not to mention people who do this for a living have said that most of 2022 QB you don’t want starting at all in 2022.
How is that good roster building and asset allocation?
who is the QB next year for this team if it is not Jones? Not a stopgap...but the future of the franchise. You know... roster building.
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How is that good roster building and asset allocation?
who is the QB next year for this team if it is not Jones? Not a stopgap...but the future of the franchise. You know... roster building.
If we are looking in FA I don’t mind a stopgap. Through the draft, if we go that route early, I want someone we believe that will eventually be worth a second contract.
Let's say Jones goes from bad to his ceiling of mediocre next season- you want to line up to pay him 20+ to stay? You are looking for a qb regardless- might as well start now.
It's all over but the crying. He was overdrafted. You don't take a qb at 6 who does not have one outstanding athletic attribute for the position. That is no excuse to continue horsing around with him hoping that he might improve to mediocre and give yourself another dilemma.
No QB born in the history of football is going to "make the playoffs" behind this shitshow, not next year anyway.
NYG need 20 new position players to stop being a joke. QB is the LAST piece of the puzzle, not the first.
(at a reasonable salary)
or if Seattle wants a swap- do it
actually my preference would be Arron Rogers, if thats possible
Seems to be the thought process on picking a QB
Seems to be the thought process on picking a QB
Exactly, everyone wants to wait for the next Luck or 2004 draft. Top pick QBs bust and lower round QBs become stars. The prognostication on them is more risk management/assessment than actually projecting their play at the NFL level.
It's a lot like gas prices. The price you pay at the pump is often determined more by speculation on what's going to happen than what's currently happening, sometimes it plays out like speculated sometimes it doesn't.
No QB born in the history of football is going to "make the playoffs" behind this shitshow, not next year anyway.
NYG need 20 new position players to stop being a joke. QB is the LAST piece of the puzzle, not the first.
You get the QB when he is available to you, not when it's convenient for you. That's the mistake they made when they overdrafted Jones. They were ready to fill the slot and went QB instead of waiting and drafting Herbert. That one sequence of decisions will haunt this franchise for 15 years.
If a great QB is there now you take him, even if you're not ready, like Cincy, like the Chargers, like Arizona.
I really dont care who plays QB in 2022, shore up the lines, trade Barkley and go get Bryce Young in 2023.
we fucking overdrafted for Jones.
Don't be afraid to overdraft again.
I could see the argument (even if I did overstate it a tad) IF we weren't so damn desperate at a lot of other positions, where it is far more likely we'd hit on a winner. Obviously, if there's a solid QB pick staring us in the face, pick him. I don't get the sense that there is, though.
That said - he's gotten 3 years now too. The only reason he should get another year is because of the utter dysfunction around him. And the fact he's now proven to be clearly better than the bottom rung QBs that replaced him.
But they've already wasted 3 of his most valuable years from an economic standpoint.
The biggest takeaway from all this, to me, is not drafting a QB when you don't have the roster to support him. It's a gigantic waste of time unless the guy is a Gold Jacket.
If 2022 is more of the same, NYG can look for a new head coach and draft a QB in 2023 with yet another high pick.
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@adamg "And if he doesn't make the playoffs, you move on."
No QB born in the history of football is going to "make the playoffs" behind this shitshow, not next year anyway.
NYG need 20 new position players to stop being a joke. QB is the LAST piece of the puzzle, not the first.
You get the QB when he is available to you, not when it's convenient for you. That's the mistake they made when they overdrafted Jones. They were ready to fill the slot and went QB instead of waiting and drafting Herbert. That one sequence of decisions will haunt this franchise for 15 years.
If a great QB is there now you take him, even if you're not ready, like Cincy, like the Chargers, like Arizona.
Cincy, Chargers, and Arizona all needed a QB when they selected Burrow, Herbert, and Murray respectively. I do not see you calling out Go Terps for suggesting we draft a 1st Round QB in 2022 as a possible 1 year stopgap (in other words overdrafting a poorer QB rather than waiting for the Herbert next year). That is precisely the mistake we made with Jones.
That said - he's gotten 3 years now too. The only reason he should get another year is because of the utter dysfunction around him. And the fact he's now proven to be clearly better than the bottom rung QBs that replaced him.
But they've already wasted 3 of his most valuable years from an economic standpoint.
The biggest takeaway from all this, to me, is not drafting a QB when you don't have the roster to support him. It's a gigantic waste of time unless the guy is a Gold Jacket.
Corporations don't waste time on capital investments that aren't working out. There is opportunity cost. Smart corporations don't compound the mistake.
You don’t build a winning culture by giving guys jobs they didn’t earn because of where they were drafted. Jones has not earned the benefit of the doubt and has not shown he is an NFL starter. If you don’t love a QB in this draft go get players at other positions and improve the team, and let Jones or another journeyman break them in until we are in a position to get a future QB.
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In comment 15519881 Jim in NH said:
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@adamg "And if he doesn't make the playoffs, you move on."
No QB born in the history of football is going to "make the playoffs" behind this shitshow, not next year anyway.
NYG need 20 new position players to stop being a joke. QB is the LAST piece of the puzzle, not the first.
You get the QB when he is available to you, not when it's convenient for you. That's the mistake they made when they overdrafted Jones. They were ready to fill the slot and went QB instead of waiting and drafting Herbert. That one sequence of decisions will haunt this franchise for 15 years.
If a great QB is there now you take him, even if you're not ready, like Cincy, like the Chargers, like Arizona.
Cincy, Chargers, and Arizona all needed a QB when they selected Burrow, Herbert, and Murray respectively. I do not see you calling out Go Terps for suggesting we draft a 1st Round QB in 2022 as a possible 1 year stopgap (in other words overdrafting a poorer QB rather than waiting for the Herbert next year). That is precisely the mistake we made with Jones.
Schneier brought up the Bengals and Burrow a couple of days ago. Said he was jealous of JBs "video game" performance. A couple of other tweets from that thread
@DanSchneierNFL: Don't forget the #Bengals ranked worse than the #Giants in pass protection. They no longer start Bobby Hart, but their IOL is a mess.
So no, you don't "need the OL" before you can worry about the QB. You need the game-changing QB. They win Super Bowls. They change franchises.
@DanSchneierNFL: These come ups (burrow, etc) shape my aggression at QB roster building wise — paraphrased as the same 5 QB have won the last 20 Super Bowls so you should swing to find one of those and keep swinging until you do — the assets lost along the way won’t matter once you find QB.
I want the Giants to follow the Bengals example. Get the QB while he's there. But Burrow is special. He can overcome a bad OL.
If you draft a QB who isn't special, it won't work.
You can't sit around and wait for the right QB draft. Forecasting out to 2023 is impossible.
If you like one of the quarterbacks (Judge is rumored to feel strongly about Pickett), then draft him and play him from the outset. Regardless of how good he is or isn't as a rookie we will still be able to draft another if desirable in 2023.
Some people talk like drafting one quarterback eats up an entire draft. We'll have other picks in the 2022 draft. If we're smart and trade players currently on the roster (including Jones) we'll have many picks.
The Daniel Jones experience has been so shitty that everyone is afraid of repeating it. I get that. But what those people aren't seeing is that the sin was less in drafting Jones than it was in sticking with him when it was clear we missed on him. That was the error, and it doesn't need to be repeated with the next QB we draft - whenever that takes place.
If you use another top 10 pick on another average/bust QB, who should never be drafted that high, you have to pay him $8 mil a year, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY,it's another Olineman you're not drafting.
You can't use your first round pick on a QB every year and expect the team as a whole to get better?
Draft OLine, make it serviceable or better, and give any future QB a real chance to succeed.