I’ve said not to really listen to anything until this guy speaks. He’s reporting that the GM search will be a mix of guys Judge knows and has ties with, and then veteran talent evaluators as well. What is interesting is that he specifically mentions Bills assistant Joe Schoen by name. I think based on this clip that it would appear Garafolo doesn’t think it will be Abrams, but he doesn’t say that specifically.
However - it is fairly clear that NYG think Judge is their guy based on this reporting, and that Judge and the next GM will be aligned - it will not be the type of thing where the new GM comes in and fires Judge after next season and then gets to automatically stay and pick his guy.
Garafolo on GM search - (
New Window )
If the above is the case and the pool of desirable GM candidates is significantly reduced, another “Epic Fail” by Mara and his inner circle.
Anyway, with that out of the way, if this report is true, and I have no doubt that it is despite my personal distaste for Garofolo, this is just sad. Sharing a vision with a 10-21 coach? Really. What a joke
Garafolo states that he doesn’t necessarily have to have Judge “ties” but that the GM and Judge have to have a shared vision for the team. So whether that be a candidate Judge knows or someone he hasn’t worked with, it doesn’t matter in the end as long as they are in lock step.
That was the sense I got from Schefter on the Ranaan podcast.
And to suggest JJ has any say in this decision shows you how inept the Mara's are on how to run this franchise. The only small sample size he has as a coach is losing. What happens next year if he wins 4-5 games with a GM with a shared vision? Does he get a 4th year to turn it around again? No coach gets 4 years to turn around franchise nor should they.
And to suggest JJ has any say in this decision shows you how inept the Mara's are on how to run this franchise. The only small sample size he has as a coach is losing. What happens next year if he wins 4-5 games with a GM with a shared vision? Does he get a 4th year to turn it around again? No coach gets 4 years to turn around franchise nor should they.
If the Giants fired Joe Judge this year, I would bet a lot of money, he never sniffed an NFL HC job again, forget even now. The Giants were the only ones who would have hired him in the first place and are still the only ones who would hire him. And, as I said, probably ever will hire him for an NFL position.
It's so disappointing the Giants never aim higher for the HC and GM. They clearly don't want someone powerful or high profile. Just look at the recent clowns they have hired/ interviewed.
It would take John Mara a few phone calls to identify the top GM and HC candidates. Infuriating they won't do this.
That is my prediction too. Although weird that Garafolo didn’t mention him but mentioned Schoen. I would think those are the two top guys as of right now.
If you want the fanbase to believe that and have credibility, you have to give us evidence that Judge and Gettleman were not on the same page, That the failure of this team is solely on Gettleman. What I see is a bunch of poorly developing players, who are not coached well. What player has grown that much in the last two years? Thomas? He is a top talent. The rest of the offensive line regresses or stinks. Who else has progressed? Slayton has absolutely regressed. Golladay isn't productive here and has been in other places. Dexter Lawrence is misused. At that press conference, Mara is going to have to be specific if he wants to peddle this argument.
Which is a cause for concern for me. This year has been a train wreck, and while injuries have been a factor they don’t excuse away my concerns with Judge’s ability to lead this team to prominence. This is why I am in favor of the new GM being the decision maker on the HC moving forward. The inability to get anything respectable going on offense these past two seasons is very alarming…especially in a league that is heavily favored to that side of the ball. With that massive coaching staff, I don’t see much progress from that unit nor any individual progression from the players.
Nevertheless at this point I’m just hoping Getts does indeed retire and we have a new GM (from the outside) calling the shots.
That makes a ton of sense!
That makes a ton of sense!
The clown show must go on!
judge has given giants fans some of the dullest, barely watchable football in recent memory.
mara ought to bite the bullet and hire a consulting company to steer this ship. every decision he's made since 2015 has been terrible.
coughlin won 2 superbowls and was fired after two 6-10 seasons. judge has done nothing and will be retained after going 6-10 and 5-12 his first two seasons.
you almost have to laugh.
Is John just a dolt?
To me, it sounded like MG was giving his opinion on what would happen. Could it be based on what he's hearing, of course. But sounded more like speculation than anything.
It is crazy to me that the Eagles have hired Andy Reid, Chip Kelly (say what you want to say but he had two 10-6 seasons there), Pederson (who won a Super Bowl), and now Sirianni (who is in the coach of the year discussions).
Our last three coaches have been disasters.
We are more WFT in our ownership than most would care to admit.
Well that is quite a reversal.
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"OK but that’s a hypothetical and I don’t think they’re going to run into that. I haven’t heard that at all. In fact, some of the prospective candidates I’ve talked to (I didn’t mention them above; will save that for when things become more concrete) are jumping at the job."
Well that is quite a reversal.
Not really sure how to copy the thread from my phone. But it was in response to someone saying the best candidates will not want to work with Judge.
And they seem to want to, through media mouthpieces. Downplay the extent they’ve made up their minds. Which is a scary though in their own rights. At best, they bring in someone who has been strongly pressured to keep Judge. And when hiring a GM, having that as the best case scenario, is exactly why they’ve ended up where they are. Because they care more about things like how well liked someone is by them vs. more objective measures like how well they have performed
Clean slate for Judge. 2020 and 2021 are written off as Gettleman disasters. Get rid of Barkley, get rid of Jones (I'm sure Judge would be happy to say goodbye to both), and start on a completely new project in which Judge and GM sink or swim together.
All oars rowing in the same direction for once.
@MikeGarafolo
Replying to
@sepinwall
and
@gmfb
Well, the question is what winds up defining the “tie?” A guy he knows or somebody he doesn’t who expresses a shared vision? Like I said in the clip, I expect a mix of guys he already knows and veteran personnel guys he doesn’t. He’ll have input but it’s not his hire.
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In comment 15522976 bleedgiantsblue said:
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"OK but that’s a hypothetical and I don’t think they’re going to run into that. I haven’t heard that at all. In fact, some of the prospective candidates I’ve talked to (I didn’t mention them above; will save that for when things become more concrete) are jumping at the job."
Well that is quite a reversal.
Not really sure how to copy the thread from my phone. But it was in response to someone saying the best candidates will not want to work with Judge.
It's actually in response to TV reviewer, Alan Sepinwall, perhaps best known here for his Sopranos episode reviews.
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In comment 15522977 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 15522976 bleedgiantsblue said:
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"OK but that’s a hypothetical and I don’t think they’re going to run into that. I haven’t heard that at all. In fact, some of the prospective candidates I’ve talked to (I didn’t mention them above; will save that for when things become more concrete) are jumping at the job."
Well that is quite a reversal.
Not really sure how to copy the thread from my phone. But it was in response to someone saying the best candidates will not want to work with Judge.
It's actually in response to TV reviewer, Alan Sepinwall, perhaps best known here for his Sopranos episode reviews.
Yea I saw he had a verified account. Did not know who it was. As a Sopranos fan, I'll have to check him out.
That is the right question. And the answer is nothing.
Oh, sure. Judge wants the fans to be "proud of the team" because the fan base is "blue collar and tough" and he wants to "change to culture to a winning culture"...and on and on and on and f-ckin on...
BFD.
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we're going to give a HC who has been a disaster a huge say in who the next GM is?
That makes a ton of sense!
The clown show must go on!
+2. It's the definition of insanity, namely doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
The best GM candidates will want their own coach. They certainly at a minimum will not want to be expected to share the "vision" of a coach who is 10-21.
Insisting that the next GM share Judge's "vision" is just more meddling by the Maras.
The answer to that question is a resounding "no."
I’ve said this countless times — he’s the most mature guy in the building and that’s ridiculous. He’s a novice head coach.
Is Joe the answer for the future? Ownership seems to think so if all we are hearing is true.
Let's hope they get it right this time.
If you(any fan) are not hoping they get it right no matter how the go about getting a new GM maybe you should look into a different team to root for.
I missed that thread, what was spilled?
Clean slate for Judge. 2020 and 2021 are written off as Gettleman disasters. Get rid of Barkley, get rid of Jones (I'm sure Judge would be happy to say goodbye to both), and start on a completely new project in which Judge and GM sink or swim together.
All oars rowing in the same direction for once.
Let's hope so.
Me too, for now. Reap what you sow.
Of course we want them to make the right decision. We're questioning rather poor, consistently disjointed thinking by leadership along the way.
There's no reason the new GM getting along and working with Judge precludes that GM from being able to move on from Judge if/when Judge gets canned in a year or two.
I don’t know the answer for sure but I would think no.
I do know that the fastest way to become and stay a franchise like what the Jags, Lions, Jets, etc. have been is to keep cycling through head coaches every 2 years.
I don’t know the answer for sure but I would think no.
I do know that the fastest way to become and stay a franchise like what the Jags, Lions, Jets, etc. have been is to keep cycling through head coaches every 2 years.
The problem with Judge is not just his performance. It’s that he preaches accountability and says the right things. Then whines about the headsets and blames the NFL for problems that he himself said had been issues the Giants had for a while (that seemingly don’t exist with other teams dealing with the same tech)
For someone that preaches accountability to lay that at the feet of the NFL is troublesome on its own. The fact that he doesn’t have better systems for a persistent problem that don’t include using timeouts is a MAJOR problem
of his and what you could generously call a management style. Then the additional problems of not being able to hire the right tech people to fix the problem. Then going a bit larger and his discussion of going for it on 4th down as something you’d look at “spreadsheets” for and you may be inclined to say he may have no idea how to win in today’s NFL much like the organization he works for.
And to this I keep asking myself a guy that looks this far in over his head, and talks like an insecure person who shouldn’t be in the position he’s in. Why on earth would it be a good idea to bring in one of “his guys” to me “his guys” would align too much with what is there already which clearly isn’t the right stuff. Whatever it is the Mara’s think they see in him. But I’d love to hear from someone what specifically he’s shown
Not certain how much he was involved in some of the free agent decisions or draft this year but assume it was more than his first year. He has some developing of his own to work on.
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We’ll see.
Sean, flesh that gut out a bit? What tea leaves make him more than just a possibility, in your head space?
Just based on the fact that the Giants may look to align the GM with Judge. Albert Breer mentioned in his GM article that Judge & Ossenfort are close.
And an offense run like it’s 1992.
Word is JJ wants to bring back the big-ass shoulder pads.
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In comment 15522938 Sean said:
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We’ll see.
Sean, flesh that gut out a bit? What tea leaves make him more than just a possibility, in your head space?
Just based on the fact that the Giants may look to align the GM with Judge. Albert Breer mentioned in his GM article that Judge & Ossenfort are close.
Wasn't there also a report that Ossenfort would NOT consider the Giants GM job because or all the in-fighting? (I read it on a BBI thread, just not sure which one.)
What coach would be winning with Glennon at quarterback and this offensive line? Not to mention our lack of healthy wide receivers.
Cut me a break.
Coaching may be an issue but the talent procurement for the past 10 years has been horrific.
Who has been responsible for the past 10 years of shitty player evaluation both at the pro and college level.
That is where we need to clean house. Constantly changing coaches is not the answer.
It means they have to agree on what style of ball they want to play and the kinds of players who can deliver that.
I think DG and JJ are probably "aligned" just fine. But the scouts CANNOT ID NFL talent, plus they draft a lot of guys who are always hurt.
When Parcells got to his 3rd season (after two crappy ones), he said "If I'm gonna get fired anyway, I'm gonna do this my way." Meaning, if he was going to do things his way, go out swinging, and let the chips fall.
Regardless of what you thing of Judge at this point in his career, I DO think he has been saddled with a lot of shit he didn't want -- like Garrett and his offense, Colombo, and an inept scouting department. THAT SHIT MUST STOP.
If Mara respects Judge so damn much, he should get the fuck out of his way and let Judge sink or swim without training wheels and restrictions.
Uh, most? If they're driven to succeed. Kinda like signing up to captain the Titanic.
"Well, Mr. Owener, what would my responsibilities be?"
"You'll run the team . . . make draft and free agent selections, and select the front office and coaching staffs."
"You mean I'll have complete autonomy?"
"Sort of, you'll do it in consultation."
"So I can get rid of the current HC?"
"We'll see."
"And high draft picks who haven't worked out?"
"May need more time"
"And front office personnel who can't cut it?"
"What's their last name?"
Keep in mind Jon — Giants will pick ~36 on round two and have an extra 3 and 4.
Getting into the 20s if one of the QBs falls is viable.
That makes a ton of sense!
thats the "Giants Way"
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So no meaningful Giants football by Columbus day yet again. Fantastic...
And an offense run like it’s 1992.
Word is JJ wants to bring back the big-ass shoulder pads.
Lol. So true. Judge thinks you win by punting 80% of the time, running the ball (albeit terribly) punting (also terribly) playing defense and winning games 13-10
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they could make another reactionary decision to pick a QB early, and I don't see that QB in '22, Pickett included.
m
Keep in mind Jon — Giants will pick ~36 on round two and have an extra 3 and 4.
Getting into the 20s if one of the QBs falls is viable.
I still don't like the QBs.
And if you’re not in the playoffs after year three you send everyone to the moon.
I guess my rebuttal would be what evidence have Judge given Mara that he is the right guy? JJ has really no coordinator history that he can stand on that he was really good at his job. He has sucked the first two years.
Even if he had confidence in Judge for whatever unknown reason. Bringing in a GM with ties to Judge basically gives Judge 2-3 more years. Because the GM will get a few years to figure it out if DG got 5 years of awfulness...how can give Judge that kind of power.
Maybe I could see giving that kind of power to a Coach with a winning track record and with cache but what has Judge dont other then I guess impress in his interview to be given that kind of pull in the org.
Clean slate for Judge. 2020 and 2021 are written off as Gettleman disasters. Get rid of Barkley, get rid of Jones (I'm sure Judge would be happy to say goodbye to both), and start on a completely new project in which Judge and GM sink or swim together.
All oars rowing in the same direction for once.
I don’t know how you can write off Judges titanic season as Gettlemans doing. Sure- the roster was very bad and injury riddled. But Judge seems so far over his head. Clock management, lack of any sort of aggressiveness and total lack of feel for the game are glaring
Getting into the 20s if one of the QBs falls is viable.
I still don't like the QBs.
I think this is a value play. If Pickett costs you a 2 & 3 and comes on a 4/13M contract, that’s a lottery ticket I’m interested.
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we're going to give a HC who has been a disaster a huge say in who the next GM is?
That makes a ton of sense!
thats the "Giants Way"
Loyalty - the "Giants Way" - trumps merit with this now fly-by-night organization...
Clean slate for Judge. 2020 and 2021 are written off as Gettleman disasters. Get rid of Barkley, get rid of Jones (I'm sure Judge would be happy to say goodbye to both), and start on a completely new project in which Judge and GM sink or swim together.
All oars rowing in the same direction for once.
Whats the new vision look like?
Burning TO's on defense because they continue to have communication problems and being unpreparied.
Not having the balls to go for it on 4th down and always punting in situations that call for going for it.
Watching more tape after we continue to get embarrassed on the field.
And offense that can't score touchdowns (I don't want to hear backup QB stuff)...teams score with backup QB's all the time.
Judge is overwhelmed by this Job because he didn't have the credentials to get the job in the first place. He just woo'd Mara by knowing both Belichick and Saban...not by his actual coaching resume.
And if you’re not in the playoffs after year three you send everyone to the moon.
I agree, but I think it's at least four years.
One more year of DJ, and then if that fails, three more years.
What coach would be winning with Glennon at quarterback and this offensive line? Not to mention our lack of healthy wide receivers.
Cut me a break.
Coaching may be an issue but the talent procurement for the past 10 years has been horrific.
Who has been responsible for the past 10 years of shitty player evaluation both at the pro and college level.
That is where we need to clean house. Constantly changing coaches is not the answer.
Now you go through the rounds and jettison coaches unless you see some improvement. The only thing keeping Judge around and in the conversation is Mara is to embarrassed to admit he fucked up- again.
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WTF has Joe Judge done to warrant such a status that the next GM needs to have thinking that aligns with Joe? I am @ a loss.
That is the right question. And the answer is nothing.
Oh, sure. Judge wants the fans to be "proud of the team" because the fan base is "blue collar and tough" and he wants to "change to culture to a winning culture"...and on and on and on and f-ckin on...
BFD.
+1
It would be bad enough for ownership to anoint a totally unproven commodity (such as Judge pre 2020 season kickoff) as the driver for one of the team's most important front office hires in a decade.
However, the circus that is Giant ownership appears set to trump such a decision. They are going to anoint a HC who has shown no ability whatsoever to improve the product on the field after nearly 2 complete seasons (Joe Judge 2021) as the driver for one of the team's most important front office hires in a decade.
It's incomprehensible how an NFL franchise could be run in a worse manner.
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If you go this route — you have to give Judge + GM full autonomy and three years to get this right.
And if you’re not in the playoffs after year three you send everyone to the moon.
I agree, but I think it's at least four years.
One more year of DJ, and then if that fails, three more years.
Jones is done. Six year scholarship for a coach is nuts. Five is nuts, but that’s the only way this scenario works out.
Uh, most? If they're driven to succeed. Kinda like signing up to captain the Titanic.
"Well, Mr. Owener, what would my responsibilities be?"
"You'll run the team . . . make draft and free agent selections, and select the front office and coaching staffs."
"You mean I'll have complete autonomy?"
"Sort of, you'll do it in consultation."
"So I can get rid of the current HC?"
"We'll see."
"And high draft picks who haven't worked out?"
"May need more time"
"And front office personnel who can't cut it?"
"What's their last name?"
Garafolo did say the opposite to this, regarding potential GM candidates in his follow up tweet.
If Jones is physically done, OK.
Otherwise, he's the QB next year.
And if Giants draft a QB in '23, don't really see them moving on from the HC and GM after two years.
Wonderful.
We’ve known this was how things were going to go down for a while, like it or hate it, its what we’re stuck with.
I’m really interested in Schoen and particularly I’d hope he pushed for Ken Doresy to come as OC. He’s mentored under Daboll, Judge’s first choice, and is in that “riser” category. I actually think he’ll eventually be a HC.
Wouldn’t shock me if Judge wanted to add a young QB and in a sense it might help buy him a 4th year with new personnel man in charge too.
I can see the job calculus at play possibly here going forward.
I agree, would rather trade a pick for a coach them a QB in the draft.
Given how Mara has operated these last 10 years, he will then opt to look for a new coach that aligns with this GM. And on and on. There is no plan.
Here is a nice video about Schoen that covers a little bit of his background.
Link - ( New Window )
I guarantee there is no bigger Parcells fan on this board than me. Loved the guy.
But this more of the same - connecting with a Giants alumnus for guidance.
We already got Trojan horsed by Belichick with Judge. Maybe Parcells wants to settle an old score, too... ;)
thanks for the Breer reference on Ossenfort; was hoping maybe there was personal insight from one of best posters here.
I don’t know the answer for sure but I would think no.
I do know that the fastest way to become and stay a franchise like what the Jags, Lions, Jets, etc. have been is to keep cycling through head coaches every 2 years.
I dont know that anyone has said he'll never be good.
Also, the lions and Jets don't cycle coaches every year.
Schwartz coached the lions for 5 years. Caldwell got 4. Patriciangot two and absolutely deserved to be fired.
The Jets?
Rex got 6 years, Bowles got 4 years. Gase absolutely deserved to be fired.
Jags? Marrone got 4 seasons Bradley got 3 seasons.
The example doesn't hold up.
Since 2000 the Jets have 2 coaches who didn’t get 3 years, Groh who quit to go to Virginia and Gase.
Since 2000 the Jags have had 2 coaches who didn’t get 3 years, Meyers who was fired this year and Mularkey.
Since 2000 the Lions have had 1 Mornhenwig in 2002.
If anything these teams hang on on to losers for too long.
The incestuous Giants way continues!
& no offense to Parcells-he was a great Giant-but the dude is like 80. I'm not sure if he's keeping daily track on what's going on in the league/how it is changing.
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Is starting out with basic assumption that at the root this team has it right. Based on what we are seeing, we need hard honest assessment. And that doesn’t sound like it to me.
As one who is as disillusioned, disgusted, and despairing as any here, just not as vocal, I don't get your premise. JJ has been horrid in terms of much HC decision making, but the question must be: does JJ align with the FO in all it thinks it has done right? I don't think there is enough evidence, one way or the other.
Why the fuck are we hiring a GM? Just make Joe the GM and coach.
I just cannot believe how far this franchise has fallen. I am fairly confident that we could get a group of people from this website who could have made decisions over the past 4 years that would have netted better results than what we have seen.
exactly my point...
If Judge actually had a professional GM who was his superior and supervisor and recruits an offensive coordinator, say like Bill O’Brien, he can be salvaged.
I believe OBJ had a sit down with Mara pre contact, how did that work out?
If Judge actually had a professional GM who was his superior and supervisor and recruits an offensive coordinator, say like Bill O’Brien, he can be salvaged.
This is how I feel.
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The only benefit of the doubt I give Judge now is he didn’t pick Jones, he didn’t pick Barkley, and the general management he worked under was a disaster.
If Judge actually had a professional GM who was his superior and supervisor and recruits an offensive coordinator, say like Bill O’Brien, he can be salvaged.
This is how I feel.
The drafts do seem to have improved since here got here.
If Judge actually had a professional GM who was his superior and supervisor and recruits an offensive coordinator, say like Bill O’Brien, he can be salvaged.
I also agree with this.
To me this is the start of a new project, with 2022 slated for tearing down this disastrous roster - starting with Jones and Barkley. If they're back it screams of owner intervention.
In an ideal world, the Giants would trade both this offseason. Neither are long term answers.
If they can find and take a good bid for Barkley, that would be great from both football and confidence in the org perspective.
If Judge actually had a professional GM who was his superior and supervisor and recruits an offensive coordinator, say like Bill O’Brien, he can be salvaged.
Hey, it is possible that Joe Judge could be a really good head coach some day. My only point is that the new GM needs to be the one to make that decision... not the owner.
I’m fine with that. I’m also ok with Jones in the picture solely as a competitor promised nothing.
Right now I’m hoping for one of the following to be on the roster. A 2022 draft pick or Trubisky or Mariota. The big wildcard here is a major trade for a guy like Wilson or Carr.
If so, go with Corral.
The emperor has no clothes.
I wouldn’t be against that. If any of the QB’s have a first round grade, I think they’ll pull the trigger in 2022 instead of waiting. I expect them to be evaluating these QB’s heavily.
If Judge actually had a professional GM who was his superior and supervisor and recruits an offensive coordinator, say like Bill O’Brien, he can be salvaged.
Judge didn't pick Jones and SB. But he coached them. And that's been a disaster.
The emperor has no clothes.
Which means we're being served up BS somewhere.
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The only benefit of the doubt I give Judge now is he didn’t pick Jones, he didn’t pick Barkley, and the general management he worked under was a disaster.
If Judge actually had a professional GM who was his superior and supervisor and recruits an offensive coordinator, say like Bill O’Brien, he can be salvaged.
Judge didn't pick Jones and SB. But he coached them. And that's been a disaster.
A very good coach could have probably gotten more out of them. Judge is not that guy yet, but not certain he can’t be that guy.
Let’s see how he does in 2022.
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Garafalo is saying that GM candidate must align with Joe Judge vision. Why? If the best man out there has diffferent view than your losing head coach or dysfunctional FO, you are going to dismiss it? This team needs honest self inspection, not more of this telling us what they want to hear. They did that with DG and that’s how we ended up wasting #2 overall pick on a RB trying to win with QB only to realize it was a mistake and blow it up a year too late. If Judge has another mess again next year, are we going to feel good that we hired a man on the basis of his sharing Judge vision?
UA, I don't disagree with anything you say in the slightest degree. But if Garafalo is positing--he may be right or not--that Mara Tech wants to hinge a GM hire being 'aligned' with JJ, that still does not stipulate, to me, that JJ has been on the same page with FO, that is all. Has he been 'aligned' MaraTech, or unwilling victim? Do you have enough to go on? What does give me add'l pause, beyond what you say, is all the att'n given to STs and they suck in terms of performance and resource allocation.
He’s coached 13 games of Barkley, 11 of them post-ACL. Barkley is broken, unlikely to be repaired. I can’t take much out of the performance.
Jones, sure, a guy with more standing in the org and bigger balls would have demanded a new QB this offseason.
I think Judge has strengths and weaknesses. He’s a galvanizer and young players buy in. If you can couple that with good coordinators I think he’s got a chance.
He’s been learning on the job, in retrospect he was wasn’t ready. Maybe he is now.
I believe this to be 100% true.
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Judge didn't pick Jones and SB. But he coached them. And that's been a disaster.
He’s coached 13 games of Barkley, 11 of them post-ACL. Barkley is broken, unlikely to be repaired. I can’t take much out of the performance.
Jones, sure, a guy with more standing in the org and bigger balls would have demanded a new QB this offseason.
I think Judge has strengths and weaknesses. He’s a galvanizer and young players buy in. If you can couple that with good coordinators I think he’s got a chance.
He’s been learning on the job, in retrospect he was wasn’t ready. Maybe he is now.
Shurmer was able to get more out of both Jones and Saquon.
Shurmer was able to get more out of both Jones and Saquon.
Just for clarity, I think RBs have four year expirations so I’m not defending Barkley per se, but Shurmur had unbroken Barkley. Big difference.
I think Jones is probably a game manager, WCO QB. OK fit for Shurmur.
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Judge didn't pick Jones and SB. But he coached them. And that's been a disaster.
He’s coached 13 games of Barkley, 11 of them post-ACL. Barkley is broken, unlikely to be repaired. I can’t take much out of the performance.
Jones, sure, a guy with more standing in the org and bigger balls would have demanded a new QB this offseason.
I think Judge has strengths and weaknesses. He’s a galvanizer and young players buy in. If you can couple that with good coordinators I think he’s got a chance.
He’s been learning on the job, in retrospect he was wasn’t ready. Maybe he is now.
That's fair about SB.
Judge, I believe, was the closer for the Golladay deal because he really wanted KG. And the way that relationship has started out, it's looking like one of the worst FA deals ever. So, that's looking like a huge miss by JJ.
It means they have to agree on what style of ball they want to play and the kinds of players who can deliver that.
I think DG and JJ are probably "aligned" just fine. But the scouts CANNOT ID NFL talent, plus they draft a lot of guys who are always hurt.
When Parcells got to his 3rd season (after two crappy ones), he said "If I'm gonna get fired anyway, I'm gonna do this my way." Meaning, if he was going to do things his way, go out swinging, and let the chips fall.
Regardless of what you thing of Judge at this point in his career, I DO think he has been saddled with a lot of shit he didn't want -- like Garrett and his offense, Colombo, and an inept scouting department. THAT SHIT MUST STOP.
If Mara respects Judge so damn much, he should get the fuck out of his way and let Judge sink or swim without training wheels and restrictions.
Parcells said he'd do it his way after his first disastrous season in 1983, which led to am overhaul of the roster and the playoffs in '84 (3-12-1 to 9-7).
@Mustanglover_
Little changes that the media is ‘pushing’ for will come to fruition with the NY Giants FO .. and rightfully so. Many have stirred the frustration with falsehoods and lies about great men like Chris, Dave & Kevin. We know there’s cause for frustration, but consistency is coming.
What has he galvanized? Every positive I’ve heard about Judge is an empty platitude (culture, they haven’t quit, and now he is a galvinizer). At some point the product on the field has to look like something other than utter dog shit. The quality of the product on the field can’t simply be blamed on lack of talent, although it doesn’t help. The offense has somehow gotten measurably worse since Garrett got canned
Yeah I’m not going out on a limb to rationalize Judge. He’s hanging by a thread, and so much has gone wrong.
The only hope I have is Gettleman should be playing the role of advisor and helping make smart personnel moves. That’s all I got.
Last year they had their playoff chances in their own control and lost 3 out of 4 games.
This year they've imploded.
Judge?
Never see him talk to players during a game-or interact with them at all. How the fuck is he a galvanizer! This fact is a problem for me. Anyone else ever notice him interact with a player? There is something seriously wrong with him.
What the FUCK!!!
For my money, Judge is not an NFL head coach given his GameDay performances.
I hear you. I mean he can get the players to buy-in to his thing.
I can certainly acknowledge I’m scraping the barrel.
Well said. Judge has shown zero evidence is he a good coach in any facet of the game. You can hope for a miracle next year but I have no idea what could lead you to believe this guy is going to become a good NFL head coach.
His team and coaching is getting worse. With young coaches you want to see some sort of rise. He’s declining badly.
Tie them at the hip and let’s see how Judge works next year without heavy anchors — Garrett, Jones, Gettleman and maybe even Barkley. I’m more confident in Judge helping pick the GM than leaving this up to the stooges.
The front office mandates also better be finished too - no forcing players or coaches on this tandem. Give them total control and GTFO out of the way Maras.
Tie them at the hip and let’s see how Judge works next year without heavy anchors — Garrett, Jones, Gettleman and maybe even Barkley. I’m more confident in Judge helping pick the GM than leaving this up to the stooges.
The front office mandates also better be finished too - no forcing players or coaches on this tandem. Give them total control and GTFO out of the way Maras.
Great total control for Joe Judge. I’m sure he’ll build a contender in no time. The same guy who can’t even manage basic timeout or clock management is going to rebuild a failed franchise. Sure…
1000 percent.
It's a point I have tried to make previously but not nearly as succinctly as you have here
Seasons are our most precious resource. Not the QB's feelings. Not the GM's rep. Not the coach's bond.
Seasons. As in years. The Giants squander them with poor priorities and organizational mantras and holy cows
Quote:
It’s better than most disjointed garbage we usually get.
Tie them at the hip and let’s see how Judge works next year without heavy anchors — Garrett, Jones, Gettleman and maybe even Barkley. I’m more confident in Judge helping pick the GM than leaving this up to the stooges.
The front office mandates also better be finished too - no forcing players or coaches on this tandem. Give them total control and GTFO out of the way Maras.
Great total control for Joe Judge. I’m sure he’ll build a contender in no time. The same guy who can’t even manage basic timeout or clock management is going to rebuild a failed franchise. Sure…
The first thing this club needs may not be Joe Judge, but above everything is to have accountability that emanates from a unified vision and not 10 cooks in the kitchen and meddling owners masquerading as personnel people.
So yes I will take Joe Judge and a new GM to set the course if this is how we get it, and let’s see if all the shit Judge has had to endure the past two years, including players and likely coaches foisted on him — let’s see if he can do better without standing waste deep in a pile of shit he did not deserve to be in.
It is possible he can turn it around, and I’m willing to see what happens. At the very lease i’d the needle is not pointing up within two years with these guys in command then blow it up and this time start the timeline with another set of people with shared vision.
This has been a disaster, where are the positive signs? Also, Judge has zero HV exp prior. No track record.
Lunacy, and really is depressing. Hope it works.