Joe Schoen, Bills assistant general manager
At 42, Schoen is Brandon Beane's right hand man in Buffalo. Maybe as appealing to the Giants, Schoen cut his teeth in Miami after being hired as a national scout by Bill Parcells in 2008. Talent evaluation has been key to the Bills' resurgence, and Schoen is a big part of that, as he is considered one of the top candidates in this cycle. |
My favorite would be ...
I think Schoen is the most intriguing candidate on my list. He's been part of a successful front office, especially through the draft, in recent seasons. His connection to Parcells, while not an overwhelming factor, is appealing for the simple fact that the Giants know the profile. He's been praised for his ability to evaluate talent - a significant part of the qualifications, in my opinion. I like Ossenfort a lot, too, and the fact that he's aligned with Judge's past is only a small part of his value. |
Other potential candidates listed as well. For what it’s worth, Stapleton does not think Abrams is the guy.
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If not those two then give Dan Morganor Eliot Wolf a shot here.
Why would you waste your one opportunity at a premier job, which Schoen will eventually get, to be hand tied to Joe Judge
Why would you waste your one opportunity at a premier job, which Schoen will eventually get, to be hand tied to Joe Judge
This is a tired take. Garafolo reported that some of these candidates are jumping at this job. Two top picks. A young coach trying to change things. A young QB or a chance to draft your own. It’s an attractive job.
This notion that the GM of the Giants isn’t one of the more attractive jobs in the NFL is only something that BBI thinks is true
Why would you waste your one opportunity at a premier job, which Schoen will eventually get, to be hand tied to Joe Judge
I keep seeing this take, but I disagree. Why is the GM hand tied to Judge? The GM will no doubt have a MUCH longer leash than Judge. 2022 is an evaluation year, and the new GM can bring in his guy after the ‘22 season.
If a guy like Chris Canty makes a statement about how he knows some GM candidates in NFL circles who wouldn't take the job b/c of Judge...it makes his claim pretty legit.
It's not tired - it's verified by someone with some inner knowledge of the NFL.
If a guy like Chris Canty makes a statement about how he knows some GM candidates in NFL circles who wouldn't take the job b/c of Judge...it makes his claim pretty legit.
It's not tired - it's verified by someone with some inner knowledge of the NFL.
I agree. I’d guess that GM candidate was Riddick.
If a guy like Chris Canty makes a statement about how he knows some GM candidates in NFL circles who wouldn't take the job b/c of Judge...it makes his claim pretty legit.
It's not tired - it's verified by someone with some inner knowledge of the NFL.
I’m not saying Canty is a liar but, I really don’t think that’s true.
- A terrible cap situation likely to restrict moves for 2 years
- A terrible QB who the owner loves
- A terrible coach that the owner loves
- A terrible VP of Player Personnel who IS the owner
- A bunch of other terrible front office employees who the owner seems to love
- A terrible owner
In the positives column, they have 1 extra 1st round pick
- A terrible cap situation likely to restrict moves for 2 years
- A terrible QB who the owner loves
- A terrible coach that the owner loves
- A terrible VP of Player Personnel who IS the owner
- A bunch of other terrible front office employees who the owner seems to love
- A terrible owner
In the positives column, they have 1 extra 1st round pick
A couple of those front office employees that the owner loves are his family - that's a different kind of love - one that if I'm a GM candidate with options...I'm not super excited about.
Schoen is probably on the short list of every team that is going to be looking this year.
Seems like a strong hire...
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That's why? My guess it he makes plenty of money in TV these days too. More than a first time GM would make.
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But nobody is going to come here if they are tied to Judge
Why would you waste your one opportunity at a premier job, which Schoen will eventually get, to be hand tied to Joe Judge
This is a tired take. Garafolo reported that some of these candidates are jumping at this job. Two top picks. A young coach trying to change things. A young QB or a chance to draft your own. It’s an attractive job.
This notion that the GM of the Giants isn’t one of the more attractive jobs in the NFL is only something that BBI thinks is true
I’m but the truth is the truth. We have seen with great regularity coaches and executives; especially ones in high demand, turn down opportunities. How many years do you think Shoen will think he will get to turn it around. Gettleman got four and that was probably longer than most would have given him. Do you think they are going to tie up 1/3rd of their given time with someone they don’t believe in—in what could be their only shot as a GM. How many years did Idzik or Mike Mac get with the Jets? These guys aren’t stupid, they realize the time they have to turn it around is limited and they are not going to be running into situations in which they have cede a significant portion of that time to a coach they don’t believe in.
That is all we need is a talking head who hasn’t been in a front office in a decade
If not those two then give Dan Morganor Eliot Wolf a shot here.
Meh, I'm resigned to the fact that is it's not Abrams, it will be Pioli. He is certainly the better choice of the 2, but he would be the least inspiring choice of the available candidates. Yes, he was 5x exec of the year, all with BB by his side. Given the chance to run his own organization in KC, he was pretty awful.
Schoen would be great, I'd be thrilled, but the guy I really like is Elliot Wolf. GB has built a team with the kind of depth you just don't see in the league any more. Look at their OL this year. They lose an all-pro OLT, move their all pro OLG there, and lose him, yet haven't skipped a beat. Lose their best ER, and their pass D is even better this year than last.
I'd also bring McClay in. Sure, Jerry Jones will likely top any comp package the Giants offer, but maybe he wants the chance to run his own show. That's not happening in Dallas.
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But I want Pioli. I think he wants a chance to recapture that glory, has been watching the league overall and knows what it takes.
If not those two then give Dan Morganor Eliot Wolf a shot here.
Meh, I'm resigned to the fact that is it's not Abrams, it will be Pioli. He is certainly the better choice of the 2, but he would be the least inspiring choice of the available candidates. Yes, he was 5x exec of the year, all with BB by his side. Given the chance to run his own organization in KC, he was pretty awful.
Schoen would be great, I'd be thrilled, but the guy I really like is Elliot Wolf. GB has built a team with the kind of depth you just don't see in the league any more. Look at their OL this year. They lose an all-pro OLT, move their all pro OLG there, and lose him, yet haven't skipped a beat. Lose their best ER, and their pass D is even better this year than last.
I'd also bring McClay in. Sure, Jerry Jones will likely top any comp package the Giants offer, but maybe he wants the chance to run his own show. That's not happening in Dallas.
I think Wolfe and Pioli suffer from the same problem. It is hard to judge them when they both have QBs that just are so good that they win with any kind of talent around them. I am always wary of coaches who win with those QBs (not counting BB because what they did was just insane over the amount of time) and then go on to other jobs without those QBs, as we saw with Piolo in KC.
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But nobody is going to come here if they are tied to Judge
Why would you waste your one opportunity at a premier job, which Schoen will eventually get, to be hand tied to Joe Judge
I keep seeing this take, but I disagree. Why is the GM hand tied to Judge? The GM will no doubt have a MUCH longer leash than Judge. 2022 is an evaluation year, and the new GM can bring in his guy after the ‘22 season.
Exactly, year 1, GM evaluates Judge, Jones, everything. Year 2, do what you want.
You can’t possibly know that. You are guessing at something and stating it as fact.
The more power and authority you offer a candidate, the more appealing the job. If you tell a GM candidate that he has to keep the coach and the QB it makes the job less attractive than a different organization that offers a blank slate.
I think Wolfe and Pioli suffer from the same problem. It is hard to judge them when they both have QBs that just are so good that they win with any kind of talent around them. I am always wary of coaches who win with those QBs (not counting BB because what they did was just insane over the amount of time) and then go on to other jobs without those QBs, as we saw with Piolo in KC.
I agree to an extent, but we HAVE seen Pioli operate without an all-world QB, and it wasn't pretty. Regarding GB, sure, Aaron Rodgers covers up a lot of sins, but they've won 39 games and counting over the past 3 years, Rodgers never did that prior. You can evaluate personnel outside of the QB's performance, and GB loses starters and don't miss a beat. That didn't happen under McCarthy, even with Rodgers.
@JustinPenik
Firing Chris Pettit is the most essential firing that needs to happen
Most likely a new GM has spent a whole career working college scouting & has helped build scouting departments from the ground up
Forcing Pettit on a new GM when the draft is so important would be terrible
Ossenfort has some circumstantial suggestion there, but Schoen we don't know at all. Perhaps most candidates would be fine using 2022 as an observational year.
What if Schoen wants Leslie Frazier as HC?
Does that get him eliminated from consideration?
With these guys, its as much about process, philosophy, and intellect than the actual moves. The sample size of moves is pretty small and there's a lot of luck involved.
I remember looking at the Seahawks and 49ers drafts back when they were really good. They both had a few outrageously awesome drafts followed by some stinkers. There's a lot more uncertainty and randomness in player evaluation than people want to admit.
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In comment 15530671 Essex said:
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But nobody is going to come here if they are tied to Judge
Why would you waste your one opportunity at a premier job, which Schoen will eventually get, to be hand tied to Joe Judge
I keep seeing this take, but I disagree. Why is the GM hand tied to Judge? The GM will no doubt have a MUCH longer leash than Judge. 2022 is an evaluation year, and the new GM can bring in his guy after the ‘22 season.
Exactly, year 1, GM evaluates Judge, Jones, everything. Year 2, do what you want.
Why would a GM need a year to evaluate Jones or Judge. There are two years of tape of a Judge coached team and three years of tape on Jones. It seems like wasting a year. Now, I am not against bringing Jones back next year because I don't see real options going forward for next season, but the plan should be to replace Jones down the road.
Also, assuming Baalke is out, the Jacksonville job looks more appealing (Trevor Lawrence, #1 pick, can choose your own head coach and likely the kind of autonomy GMs are used to).
I thought we were only listening to Garafolo? There are GM candidates that won’t take the job because of Judge. Dodds is one.
Pioli fired Herm Edwards to hire Todd Haley. Then followed that up with Romeo Crennel. I will say that some of his drafts were pretty good.
Like I said, I'm resigned that if it's not Abrams, it will be Pioli, and that would be far more preferable. I could live with it, I'd just prefer someone a little more inspiring.
He also might be a complete lunatic.
Not my favorite, but my bar is pretty low for the Giants these days.
But I think a lot of you are missing the big picture. Keeping Judge and Jones as a requirement to be hired is a symptom of why there's a mess. What any candidate is thinking is that the best NFL GM jobs are the ones where the owners own with some financial over site and let the GM run the football operation with full autonomy and everyone in the building is on the same team and supporting the GM as the head of football operation in words and deeds every day (no pair of owners running a shadow scouting operations).
Employees don't listen to what the owners say, they watch what the owners do especially in a business with long term employees who have seen multiple senior executives come and go while the owners are remain active in the business day to day. Whether or not you can handle the truth or not the NFL community knows exactly how the Giants operate and why they are one of the worst teams and places to work in the NFL.
Most NFL GMs only get one chance, some who have success get more than one, but not many. All of the best candidates know this. IMO if the best candidates shy away from the Giants GM job the reputation of what goes on inside 1925 Giants Way is why. We will see how the next month plays out. Unfortunately I think the Giants more interesting to follow when the games aren't being played.
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Ossenfort and Schoen would want to work with Judge as the HC
I thought we were only listening to Garafolo? There are GM candidates that won’t take the job because of Judge. Dodds is one.
Considering what Ossenfort and Schoen have done in their NFL careers and their reputation amongst those in scouting community, I can't say that they are not in the same tier as Dodds. My personal opinion is that you can't make moves just for the sake of making moves and if you are going to completely redo the coaching staff it better be because you have someone who is far better lined up.
Not ludicrous to me on Judge. As you want to see him run the offseason practice sessions, talk about his players, talk about who is core and who isn't, get his opinions on roster building and player evals during free agency and draft, understand his gameplanning and postmortems on what worked and what didn't after gamedays.
Plenty of game tape on Jones. That decision doesn't need a year...
Why would you waste your one opportunity at a premier job, which Schoen will eventually get, to be hand tied to Joe Judge
People keep saying this but how true is it? People assuming anyone who comes here and wants to work with Judge is just a Mara yes men while they may think for themselves.
Why would you waste your one opportunity at a premier job, which Schoen will eventually get, to be hand tied to Joe Judge
This is certainly possible, but there is a lot of nuance to this discussion that starts and end with one simple fact--GMs and HCs don't always align or get hired at the same time and GMs don't always hire a new HC the second they themselves are hired as GM.
I don't think it's fair to immediately just blast a process that sees the GM "inherit" a HC, whether he's lame duck or not. It might not be ideal, but it's far from corrupt or doomed.
If the new GM candidate(s) has a clear cut vision that starts and ends with his own clear cut HC candidate being brought in NOW, that's one thing, fine, let the GM wack Judge and hire new guy, but if the GM is more than comfortable with coming in and moving one brick at a time, waiting on the HC search while observing the incumbent, that could work too.
It all depends on what the GM candidates want to do and when.
Mara and Co need to ask honest questions and allow the prospective GM to answer honestly and allow for any viewpoint. If Mara is married to Judge hook line and sinker, then we should all just ignore the next few months and years anyway because this whole process is a charade. If Mara can be moved off Judge, and I don't believe the masses that say he cannot, then he's going to hire the GM that displays the best traits and not the one that says all the right things.
At least that what I have to believe because why the fuck would I believe in the former doomsday take. I can't live like that.
Mara and Co need to ask honest questions and allow the prospective GM to answer honestly and allow for any viewpoint. If Mara is married to Judge hook line and sinker, then we should all just ignore the next few months and years anyway because this whole process is a charade. If Mara can be moved off Judge, and I don't believe the masses that say he cannot, then he's going to hire the GM that displays the best traits and not the one that says all the right things.
At least that what I have to believe because why the fuck would I believe in the former doomsday take. I can't live like that.
Are you talking about Reese inheriting Coughlin? Because that’s not remotely the same situation
- A terrible cap situation likely to restrict moves for 2 years
- A terrible QB who the owner loves
- A terrible coach that the owner loves
- A terrible VP of Player Personnel who IS the owner
- A bunch of other terrible front office employees who the owner seems to love
- A terrible owner
In the positives column, they have 1 extra 1st round pick
If giants bite the bullet re: cap in 2022, 2023 cap would be fine. No saquon,DJ, SS, Ryan. Probably no adoree. Have to keep KG at least thru 2022, maybe even 2023. He probably would be useful but is getting injury prone label
Finally build this team inside out, not sexy picks
Idk even if we picked 3 oline and 3 front 7 picks thru pick 110 if that would be enough
But it’s a good start if don’t correctly
Finally build this team inside out, not sexy picks
Idk even if we picked 3 oline and 3 front 7 picks thru pick 110 if that would be enough
But it’s a good start if don’t correctly
Except that’s not how building a team successfully works
Agreed. And I think he's dovish enough to fold right into line with the "Giants Way". But it would allow Mara to check the box of hiring an "outsider". Just a ruse.
We need a GM who is antithetical to everything that Mara wants - no ties to the Giants, young, hated the Giants growing up, big opinion and ideas, willing to break the current processes, etc.